Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

We should be, you're right.

Read this thread, those that advocate Brendan staying on seem to have a consistent theme of 5th being good enough, any higher should be deemed a bonus. Never beating the top 4 teams in the league should be expected as they have more money than us (even while still arguing that in other leagues the top 4 teams are getting beaten by the lesser teams, I kid you not).

Expectations, I've never witnessed them lower, it's depressing to hear after 3 years without a trophy and most likely out of the CL that people are content with our lot, this is where we belong we get told, what an absolute disgrace to the name and history of this club.

What depresses me most is that you continually and deliberately get the wrong end of the stick in order to promote a silly agenda.

It is. When he'd finished overhauling it six seasons later we finished 7th in the league, trophyless for four seasons.

I'd much prefer to remember all that he won and had us among the European elite again . We were the best in Europe again under his tenure and he didn't lose the plot when we met the likes of Chelsea and the mancs . It wasn't his fault that things went pear shaped when the cowboys  pulled the plug .

Funny when you look at that table really it puts into perspective some of the daft comments about what we ought to "expect".

None of us 'expected' to win the European Cup in 2005  Mick but we bloody well did.

I'm all for sensible expectations but I also believe too many within the club now are quite happy to accept the status quo and play up to these expectations instead of trying to exceed them. Unless of course it's the beginning of the season and we're told to expect the world in the coming months and then no one,  and I mean no one, within the club delivers.

We bloody well should have beaten Villa as you say and I do think it is possibly unfair to be so critical of one game. But it was one game in a line of quite a few now in the least three years where we haven't been good enough. Good enough when it really matters and of coure we can list a line of games where all past managers lost games they shouldn't but there does appear to be a trend now that we simply do not win the games that matter.

Sorry mate , but your guessing at what the commitee does. Rodgers is to blame for the player he signed. He keeps telling us that its his decision, yet people still say its not.

He says plenty of things to suggest he doesn't agree with the policy and committee as well mate.

You say I'm guessing but I'm sorry by you simply buying what you see you are being slightly naive.

I'm not saying you should like the manager, if you wNt him sacked then I have no problem with that as it's your choice but you can't say others are 100% wrong in their reading of it and you are 100 % right when you don't know either.

The committee wouldn't be there if there wasn't a watering down of responsibility in player recruitment

It's that simple

Maybe you should ask yourself why you're the only person on this forum that believes that!

Ahem!
As Ayre explained in the Sports Illustrated interview, “He [Rodgers] has a team of people that go out and do an inordinate amount of analysis work to establish who are the best players in that position. It’s a combination of things.”

So, Rodgers briefs his team on the positions to fill, the scouting team then provide recommendations and the committee collectively value the player accordingly, in terms of value and also wages.

Feel free to ignore these facts, and get back to your crusade to rid the club of the Evil that is Brendan Rodgers!

Analysis, recommendations and scouting work. Where did it say they TELL  him who to sign.
All managers have this. Where did it say they TELL him who to sign?
Ana

None of us 'expected' to win the European Cup in 2005  Mick butwe bloody well did.

I'm all for sensible expectations but I also believe too many within the club now are quite happy to accept the status quo and play up to these expectations instead of tryingto exceed them. Unless of course it's the beginning of the season and we're told to expect the world in the coming months and then no one,  and I mean no one, within the club delivers.

We bloody well should have beaten Villa as you say and I do think it is possibly unfair to be so critical of one game. But it was one game in a line of quite a few now in the least three years where we haven't been good enough. Good enough when it really matters and of coure we can list a line of games where all past managers lost games they shouldn't but there does appear to be a trend now that we simply do not win the games that matter.

^^ This.

Not saying we could not find a better manager, there is no reason to think we could not.

Long term however after the honeymoon is over if we are still on an incentive based wage scale, are still trying to get transfers done by Ian clipping coupons and offering cases of Frey Bentos things will be the same.

And what would his record have been HSc had there not only been Bayren but Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal were also in the league?

Your showing me that they won the title in a league where there is one Chelsea and and everyone else is Stoke City.

What happens to Dortmund when instead of being in a 2 team race you are competing against 4 of the richest clubs in the world year in/year out.

Look I am not knocking Klopp or Dortmund but you can't tell me that if Dortmund was in the PL they would have won the title at all.

It's apples/ oranges comparison.

I wouldn't get over excited about the quality of the EPL teams mate, just look at the CL results over the last few seasons.

Not saying we could not find a better manager, there is no reason to think we could not.

Long term however after the honeymoon is over if we are still on an incentive based wage scale, are still trying to get transfers done by Ian clipping coupons and offering cases of Frey Bentos things will be the same.

Not if the manager is better AZ.

Brendan may well be here next season.

He may well turn things around and get off to a better start and have the good middle of the season which could have us in touching distance to the top.

But I just don't accept that because of the constraints not one manager in Europe couldn't achieve more than we currently are.

Come on Mick.. You know I'm a fan of you as well mate but you can't defend one manager rightly with the issues he has hamstringing him and then ignore that the other one was working with two hands ties behind his back and having a Texan cock slapped across his cheeks for at least the last two years of those 7 after where all the good work he was doing putting a squad together was being pulled apart

IMO Brendan deserves our support, he deserves our backing but not at the expense of another who did plenty for us all.. We can't or shouldn't point score one off against the other

Mate that's precisely my point. It doesn't matter who the manager is, if you are completely outgunned financially by all and sundry results will suffer. Now when Benitez was having "his two hands tied behind his back" we still had good players at the club (Gerrard in his prime, Torres etc etc) but we STILL bombed down the league (largely because we didn't have cover for Torres who got injured). That's the thing, it doesn't matter who the manager is if you haven't got the players.

People are still getting completely the wrong end of the stick on this. I'm not particularly arguing that we should keep Brendan (I think we should but that debate's done), I'm simply making the point that barring a miracle ANY manager would struggle to do much better than Brendan is now. We can try for sure, we can give it to Benitez or Klopp or whoever anyone likes, but unless the rules of the game (how the club is run) changes, we cannot sensibly expect to do much better than we have this season. Last season wasn't the norm, it was a complete bolt from the blue abherration unless we change how we do things.

Now people can cover themselves in a big Liverpool flag and convince themselves we're the best club in Europe or the 9th richest or were the "highest rated" club in Europe recently all they like, but I can't do it because it's bonkers. If you have better players than other teams you normally win the match. Not always as we proved on Sunday, but normally you do. If you have worse players than another team, over the course of a league season you normally finish behind them. Not always as we proved last season albeit with a genius in our ranks, but nearly always. If you want to build a really good squad of really good players, almost always you have to buy players that the other really good teams also want. Not always, but usually. You may find the odd diamond in the rough, but usually the teams who can really go big in the market will end up with better players.

As I've said a few times, whoever is the manager next season will get my 100% support. If he finishes 5th, it is not a "failure" unless we change the way the club is run. Simples.   

Not saying we could not find a better manager, there is no reason to think we could not.

Long term however after the honeymoon is over if we are still on an incentive based wage scale, are still trying to get transfers done by Ian clipping coupons and offering cases of Frey Bentos things will be the same.

Would pork scratchings do the job 

Not if the manager is better AZ.

Brendan may well be here next season.

He may well turn things around and get off to a better start and have the good middle of the season which could have us in touching distance to the top.

But I just don't accept that because of the constraints not one manager in Europe couldn't achieve more than we currently are.

I am not saying that Si, what I am saying is over the long term it is an uphill battle...JH himself has said time and time again that we cannot financially compete with those above us without FFP being fully enforced.

We can find a better manager, we can win cups...we may win the league but over the course of the next 10+ years it is hard for me to see us becoming a powerhouse built off of incentive based wage contracts and trying to be smarter in the transfer market.

That is the line I really like "We need to be smarter than those above us with transfers"  I doubt very much that the current top 4 have idiots in the scouting a procurement departments and somehow we are going to find brilliant minds to outsmart everyone else.
 

There is of course another scenario which isn't being discussed or even considered. That is that this is the pain which the club has to go through in order for the FSG grand plan to work. I mean to say, the likes of Moreno, Can, Markovic etc etc are all 20 years of age, as is Sterling, Ibe maybe 19. Now it's reasonable to assume that all of them will be better players in three years time than they are now. Perhaps then we can do some Chelsea style selling off and re-recruiting with a relatively low net spend.

Quick note: I'M NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THE POLICY, I'M JUST TRYING TO UDERSTAND IT. NEITHER AM I SAYING I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP BRENDAN BECAUSE HE'D BE THE BEST AT PUTTING THE PLAN INTO ACTION. I HAVE NO IDEA WHO'D BE THE BEST AT PUTTING THIS PARTICULAR PLAN INTO ACTION.

Analysis, recommendations and scouting work. Where did it say they TELL  him who to sign.
All managers have this. Where did it say they TELL him who to sign?
Ana

When did I say they tell him who to sign? The majority of the time he will be given a list of players to choose from, players that the committee have agreed fit the bill, and represent value for money.
There are also times when Brendan has chosen his own players too.

What I posted shits all over your statement that Brendan is solely responsible for the players we bring in. You're wrong!!!!

But as I said, carry on making a prat out of yourself with your factually incorrect agenda!

I am not saying that Si, what I am saying is over the long term it is an uphill battle...JH himself has said time and time again that we cannot financially compete with those above us without FFP being fully enforced.

We can find a better manager, we can win cups...we may win the league but over the course of the next 10+ years it is hard for me to see us becoming a powerhouse built off of incentive based wage contracts and trying to be smarter in the transfer market.

That is the line I really like "We need to be smarter than those above us with transfers"  I doubt very much that the current top 4 have idiots in the scouting a procurement departments and somehow we are going to find brilliant minds to outsmart everyone else.
 

FFP is being enforced as it can be isn't it?

It's not going to get any better I don't think

We need a manager with pulling power and that's not Rodgers . A F***ing serious amount of dosh he's spent on Dross signings and not a pot to piss in to show for it . Had a great manager been given the amount of money Rodgers got in the summer we'd be competing right now .

That is the line I really like "We need to be smarter than those above us with transfers"  I doubt very much that the current top 4 have idiots in the scouting a procurement departments and somehow we are going to find brilliant minds to outsmart everyone else.
 

Makes perfect sense plug the gap by being smart until our revenues catch up, no reason with our global fan base and the recent improvement in marketing we cannot over take Arsenal, Chelsea and City in revenue created.
Let's be honest City don't have any global appeal that's just the oil money laundered around through various business's to overcome FFP.

FFP is being enforced as it can be isn't it?

It's not going to get any better I don't think

That is the sad part Jon.

I am not saying that Si, what I am saying is over the long term it is an uphill battle...JH himself has said time and time again that we cannot financially compete with those above us without FFP being fully enforced. 

FFP is being enforced though isn't it?

FFP is being enforced though isn't it?

We barely escaped it ourselves .

FFP is being enforced though isn't it?

Not according to JWH

Not according to JWH

He would say that though.

Not according to JWH

Werner and himself are whiners , the sooner they sell up the better for all involved . it would be best for the future of the club .