Do goalscorers perform poorly when they join Liverpool FC?

Luis Suarez
Ajax 110 (81) 74% conversion rate
Uruguay 54 (28) 52%
LFC 47 (16) 34%

Dirk Kuyt
Utrecht 160 (51) 32%
feyenoord 101 (71) 70%
LFC 208 (51) 25%
Fenerbache 2 (2) 100%

Craig Bellamy
Blackburn 27 (13) 48%
LFC 27 (7) 26%
Man City 40 (13) 33%
Cardiff 35 (11) 31%
LFC 27 (6) 22%

Andy Carroll
Newcastle 80 (31) 39%
LFC 44 (6) 14%

Charlie Adam
Blackpool 78 (28) 36%
LFC 28 (2) 7%

Andriy Voronin
Bayer Liverkusen 92 (32) 35%
LFC 27 (5) 18%
Hertha 27 (11) 41%

Only Torres performed better when he moved to Anfield with a conversion rate that jumped from 38% at Atletico to 64% at LFC.

Are we buying the wrong type of players or are the managers setting the team and these players up wrongly?

It's a mix of things for those examples you have given... A fair few have come from leagues where it's deemed easier to score and the simple fact it's a big difference playing for a side like us, 90% of sides sit and expect us to break them down, especially at Anfield, where if they get a point it's massive, even nowadays. There is less space and defences work harder.

Simple but true.

It's a mix of things for those examples you have given... A fair few have come from leagues where it's deemed easier to score and the simple fact it's a big difference playing for a side like us, 90% of sides sit and expect us to break them down, especially at Anfield, where if they get a point it's massive, even nowadays. There is less space and defences work harder.

Simple but true.

Suarez came here with a huge reputation. So also Adam; we ll wanted him badly. Now a lot of fans believe Suarez is not a goalscorer and Adam is sh*t.

Maybe if we used Suarez like we did Torres.......

Suarez came here with a huge reputation. So also Adam; we ll wanted him badly. Now a lot of fans believe Suarez is not a goalscorer and Adam is sh*t.

Maybe if we used Suarez like we did Torres.......

Adam suffered from stepping up to a massive club, he wasn't as awful as some think but never quite good enough to dominate games for a top club where the pressure is always on and as I said teams sit deeper waiting for us to beat them.. At Blackpool teams had a go at them, there was more space and the pressure not as high.

Suarez as Torres? How do you mean?

Torres played the focal point of a 4-2-3-1 and Suarez is playing the focal point of a 4-3-3.. Only a subtle difference..
Luis gets plenty of chances but snatches at them.. As we stand now Torres is just a more natural goalscorer..
Personally for me and has been since he signed, Luis is a scorer of great goals not a great goal scorer. More of a created than finisher.

I agree with PD, however I also thinks a contributing factor is general confidence in & around the club the last few years! Take young vs downing as an example, arguably a very comparable few seasons before they signed for their current clubs but one hit the ground running while the other hit the ground and got stuck knee deep in his own sh*te! Looks like a nervous wreck whereas young looked like a man with boots to fill!

Problem is we as fans expect our current team to deliver upon past glories when truth be told we are so far off that position it's not funny!

Also teams who run the top of the league win matches before the kick off because the psycological advantage has opposing teams bottling a potential win!

It's hard to reclaim/liveupto a legacy like ours!


Rebuild and refocus and hopefully BR is the man to do it

I agree with PD, however I also thinks a contributing factor is general confidence in & around the club the last few years! Take young vs downing as an example, arguably a very comparable few seasons before they signed for their current clubs but one hit the ground running while the other hit the ground and got stuck knee deep in his own sh*te! Looks like a nervous wreck whereas young looked like a man with boots to fill!

Problem is we as fans expect our current team to deliver upon past glories when truth be told we are so far off that position it's not funny!

Also teams who run the top of the league win matches before the kick off because the psycological advantage has opposing teams bottling a potential win!

It's hard to reclaim/liveupto a legacy like ours!


Rebuild and refocus and hopefully BR is the man to do it

One would argue that where the general confidence is low, the manager is failing....

One would argue that where the general confidence is low, the manager is failing....

You've been pushing that agenda for a few weeks now.

One would argue that where the general confidence is low, the manager is failing....

One would be right! Hopefully BR can turn these pack of under achievers into a pack of over achievers! Case and point- 2006 we over achieved (i.e players played 110% instead of 70-80% which we see week in week out imo) and should of won the league

You've been pushing that agenda for a few weeks now.

Seriously? You think this thread that has absolutely nothing to do with BR, somehow is all about him. Be realistic please.

Btw I don't have an anti-BR agenda. I could sue you for defamation

One would be right! Hopefully BR can turn these pack of under achievers into a pack of over achievers! Case and point- 2006 we over achieved (i.e players played 110% instead of 70-80% which we see week in week out imo) and should of won the league

And also 2008-2009 when we came second.

Right now, we are not low in morale or confidence. I just hope we can strengthen the team; with some tested premiership goalscorer

RVP hatrick to turn a 2-1 lead into a 2-3 loss cause Southampton bottled it.... Teams don't do that against us no more.... FACT

RVP hatrick to turn a 2-1 lead into a 2-3 loss cause Southampton bottled it.... Teams don't do that against us no more.... FACT

Anfield use to be a scary place to go play against LFC.....

use to be a scary place....

Exactly

Just a tought...who played in the midfield when Torres was a goal machine for Liverpool? And as for Luis coming from a lesser league...i believe he scores plenty in his NT, including the Copa America and the WC and the WC qualies (against some of the worlds best defenders in many cases), so i dont buy that point.

To me, the problem is in the midfield and our lack of a playmaker who can play between the lines and feed the forwards properly. The rest is just building up confidence and the results will come. Thats why i wanted so badly a "number 10", instead of a scorer: i believe our problem is in the service. Any forward would have a hard time playing for us.

ANyway thats just my toughts, and i could be wrong, but i dont think im too off the mark

Gerrard and Torres was a phenomenal strike partnership, who suited each other's strengths perfectly. That's why they both excelled. Never hurts having Alonso and Mascherano bossing the midfield behind you.

As for Luis, if I'm not mistaken, most of his Ajax goals came from playing as a WF in a 4-3-3. His tally dropped in his final season (in which he joined us) when he was playing a bit more lone striker. Could be totally wrong here, so someone please correct me.

Never hurts having Alonso and Mascherano bossing the midfield behind you.

Exactly my point. Given time Lucas will reach the level Masch had. As for Alonso, Liverpool never replaced him. Best times last year were when Lucas played. Forwards are not the problem, midfield is

we haven't build the team around suarez yet (or seen him for a full season). dirk was pushed wide, bellers underused and carroll too... am I making excuses? i just don't think the club has been in the right shape to get the most out of strikers.

Over the last 10 years or so we seem to have a habit of buying strikers(goalscorers) and trying to convert them to wingers or widemen.This to my thinking has been a problem for us.

Billy the stats in your first post in this thread seem to back that opinion up mate.

I seriously reckon we are jinxed and we need to find that pr**k who has the Liverpool Voodoo doll and do some major damage to him/her/Fergie.

In relation to the playersmentioned in the opening post

Suarez: How many of his goals from Ajax were poacher goals Id love to know. And its a less demanding league to the PL

Kuyt: Never got enough time as a central striker here. Id say his stats would be far better here if he had

Carroll: Had a good spell with Newcastle not a great career. They also played to his strenghts were as here he was another part of teh team not the focal point

Adam: Well not a striker but he did hit a lot of free kicks and all the penos for Blackpool which helped


Actually I think all the above hit the penos for there previous clubs

Bellamy: Again used as a wide man here more then a central striker

Would love him and Kuyt here now

Voronin: no comment!!

In relation to the playersmentioned in the opening post

Suarez: How many of his goals from Ajax were poacher goals Id love to know. And its a less demanding league to the PL

Kuyt: Never got enough time as a central striker here. Id say his stats would be far better here if he had

Carroll: Had a good spell with Newcastle not a great career. They also played to his strenghts were as here he was another part of teh team not the focal point

Adam: Well not a striker but he did hit a lot of free kicks and all the penos for Blackpool which helped


Actually I think all the above hit the penos for there previous clubs

Bellamy: Again used as a wide man here more then a central striker

Would love him and Kuyt here now

Voronin: no comment!!

See, that raises another point, do we misuse players. Take Kuyt and Bellamy, did we misuse them? It is important to remember why they were used in those areas. Torres banging the goals in so push Kuyt out wide. Suarez was doing well so push Bellamy out wide to get at full-backs.

I know they were used in different regimes but maybe we would be better putting players in their correct positions as opposed to re-positioning them. That said, maybe money limits and player recruitment forced these changes upon us.

See, that raises another point, do we misuse players. Take Kuyt and Bellamy, did we misuse them? It is important to remember why they were used in those areas. Torres banging the goals in so push Kuyt out wide. Suarez was doing well so push Bellamy out wide to get at full-backs.

I know they were used in different regimes but maybe we would be better putting players in their correct positions as opposed to re-positioning them. That said, maybe money limits and player recruitment forced these changes upon us.

Wouldn't it be better for managers to play the striker in the best position in which the striker is most comfortable and most likely to succeed? Babel had fire in him, but his Anfield career changed him game forever.

Playing Kuyt as a winger also altered his game negatively, though it may have given his career longevity.

We lost the Champions League final in 2007 because an awesome midfielder was made a striker and a striker made to come in as a sub.

Anyone who knew Mikel Obi before his Chelsea career would have sworn he was the future king of the midfield goal scorers. This actually sparked a bidding war between the mancs and chavs. Chavs turned him into some wannabe defensive midfielder. He has never measured up since.

Bottom line, when you buy a prolific goalscorer, allow him to flourish. Don't box him into a format you want him to learn to play in, he will underperform.

Rafa built the team around the Torres-Gerrard partnership AND also allowed them to play their game and express themselves.

It works better that way.

Adam suffered from stepping up to a massive club, he wasn't as awful as some think but never quite good enough to dominate games for a top club where the pressure is always on and as I said teams sit deeper waiting for us to beat them.. At Blackpool teams had a go at them, there was more space and the pressure not as high.

Suarez as Torres? How do you mean?

Torres played the focal point of a 4-2-3-1 and Suarez is playing the focal point of a 4-3-3.. Only a subtle difference..
Luis gets plenty of chances but snatches at them.. As we stand now Torres is just a more natural goalscorer..
Personally for me and has been since he signed, Luis is a scorer of great goals not a great goal scorer. More of a created than finisher.

I beg to differ. Torres played purely as a scorer. He would hoover in and around the box to finish chances. While Suarez is played as an all action forward. I would not say striker because he is not always near or in the box. Their is another difference between the two in terms of how the teams were set up. In Rafa's team every attacker were set up to supply torres. Whenever we had the ball we were direct and would counter attack as quickly as possible and torres would use his pace and strength to outpace opposing defenders to convert chances. While Suarez is played not as a focal point to finish moves but the focal point in which chances are created.

For Suarez scoring is not easy because he is never settled, He is hardly in the box when chances do arrive because he has to create chances from out of the box and then move in. Logically one can say that chances of finishing a move at higher speeds is more difficult than those in which the striker is already steady and torres was steady because his job was to score goals, not create them. In Rafa's team we hardly saw any intricate passing when we would attack the goal, the moves were direct and at great pace with torres in the middle ready to score. While in Suarez's team we hardly try to spring the offside trap and usually have very slow build-up or towards the flanks with Suarez in the flank. Moreover the quality of passers were different, Torres had Gerrard, Alonso, Riera, Kuyt supporting him while Suarez only has Gerrard who is not quite the same player of old.

I would say the biggest difference is the role and mentality of the two players. Torres's role was to keep it simple stay in the box and finish moves and mentally he was ready to score when chances came. While Suarez's role all over the field makes his role too large. If his role was purely just to score or conjure up moments of magic in and around the box he would be more effective. Look at his role for Uruguay, he has Forlan, Cavani (whose country conversion ration is very poor compared to his club's) and other players supplying him. For Uruguay he hardly strays from the central areas and is always in and around the box when chances do arrive and that is why he has 28 goals from 54 matches. Frankly, with us he is a multi-tasker not a specialist.