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      John Henrys open letter to fans.

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      FRANS
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      • 551 posts | 19 
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #345: Sep 05, 2012 04:23:52 pm
       i do agree with what they are trying to do and the plan they are having.
      I don`t want our team to be a second Rangers.But all I'm asking is if the transfer window opens again
      we must do our  best to get a striker .
      JC16
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      • 861 posts | 86 
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #346: Sep 05, 2012 04:53:00 pm
      The wages we were paying are comparable with the other teams who expected to win the EPL or Champions league

       You don't get a Ferrari for the cost off a mini , we were a team who competed at the highest level and with that come higher wages

       Now it seem as if we are expected to compete with Champion league teams on a Euro league budget

       

      Well, yeah.  Unfortunately there is no way that having a 70% Wages to turnover ratio.  No club, company or business  can operate like that and not expect to go belly up.  That's just the way it is.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #347: Sep 05, 2012 04:53:46 pm
      The comparisons with H&G are beyond ridiculous, not arsed what anyone says.

      The only similarity FSG have failed to accomplish even remotely comparable with H&G is their failure to appoint a top quality CEO this side of the pond. Stated earlier in the thread my feelings on the matter, but we really do need an experienced, innovative footballing man watching over matters in L4. Ian Ayre should not be an influential figure in relation to on pitch matters at this club. The commercial aspect? Hes done a great job, but thats where his involvement should end.

      How anyone can compare the process of making the club self-sufficient to the demolition job those two Cancers inflicted upon us is genuinely beyond me. After the fiasco's at Rangers, Portsmouth, Malaga.. Christ even what happened to us two years ago. Im genuinely shocked at how many people are so eager to dismiss the changes they've tried to implement as mere "Cost cutting" and "asset stripping" exercises. Do people forget we posted a -£30 million operating loss just a few months ago? (Thats excluding H&G's £50 million stadium drawings by the way)

      Our wage structure had doubled within the past 6 years. I see people seething at the contracts offered to Cole (100k+ a week), Carra (100k+ a week) and Aquilani (80k+ a week) in one thread, then posting their outrage in another thread at the fact the wage bill was being cut. We have been offering Top 4 contracts to players who were not delivering top 4 performances, if we had continued offering those salaries to average players we would ultimately have gone tits up. Kick and scream all you like, It f**king needed addressing.





      (Courtesy of Veincintno De Mayo on RAWK)

      Im not an FSG apologist, Im not an FSG "fan", and Im as furious with the climax to the transfer window as anyone on this forum. But I genuinely believe they do have a plan and a desire to make Liverpool Football Club successful again. They have made mistakes, and they will make plenty more. It was never going to be a quick fix, and I doubt we'll be challenging for major honors for at least a few seasons.

      But I'd rather see the long term future of my football club prioritized, safe in the knowledge that we are self sufficient, rather than have some Arab Oil Tycoon fly in, throw a couple hundreds of millions at players, get bored after a couple of seasons and then f**k off leaving us in turmoil (RE: Malaga). If that means I have to wait another 2 years to see the fruits of our labor & challenging back at the top.. I'll f**king wait.

      Feel free to throw the "Christ are ye John Henry" line at me, and no I havent been employed to spread FSG PR bullshit to the masses. Im trying to look at the situation we were in 2 years ago with the one we currently lie. I understand peoples frustration, believe it or not I share it. But when you read statements such as "we have gone backwards under FSG", or "They're as bad as H&G" it really leaves me sitting here shaking my head in despair at sometimes.

      Very interesting article that that was originally taken from.
      It's on The Swiss Rambles blog.



      http://swissramble.blogspot.ie/

      Eddieo
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #348: Sep 05, 2012 05:00:19 pm
      Well, yeah.  Unfortunately there is no way that having a 70% Wages to turnover ratio.  No club, company or business  can operate like that and not expect to go belly up.  That's just the way it is.
      We could afford it and we would not go belly up but it does not leave much to play with (transfers)

       What is needed is more income, so that 70% become 55%

       Paying less wages will take us backwards, if we pay the wages of a mid table team we will end up a mid table team. Thats just the way it is

       
      JC16
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #349: Sep 05, 2012 05:08:59 pm
      No.  We couldn't afford it.  No business can.  What about running Melwood, Training staff, office staff, Manager, His staff, Anfield upkeep, Pitch Maintanence, (and the expenses of hospitality improvements).  Those wages listed are only those of the players. 

      Agree with you about the income bit.   
      FRANS
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      • 551 posts | 19 
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #350: Sep 05, 2012 05:16:27 pm
      Paying less wages will take us backwards, if we pay the wages of a mid table team we will end up a mid table team. Thats just the way it is

       I totally disagree with that one.....Newcastle finish last season above us  are they paying better wages than us
      Eddieo
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #351: Sep 05, 2012 05:18:24 pm
      No.  We couldn't afford it.  No business can.  What about running Melwood, Training staff, office staff, Manager, His staff, Anfield upkeep, Pitch Maintanence, (and the expenses of hospitality improvements).  Those wages listed are only those of the players. 

      Agree with you about the income bit.   
      Lots of teams do seem able to pay 70 % and keep going

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/may/19/football-club-accounts-debt
      Eddieo
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #352: Sep 05, 2012 05:28:31 pm
      I totally disagree with that one.....Newcastle finish last season above us  are they paying better wages than us
      I am not saying it is an exact science , but generally in life you get what you pay for

        I think it has been twenty years (Leeds) since a team out of the top three for paying wages has won the league
      Son Of A Gun
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #353: Sep 05, 2012 05:31:03 pm
      The comparisons with H&G are beyond ridiculous, not arsed what anyone says.

      The only similarity FSG have failed to accomplish even remotely comparable with H&G is their failure to appoint a top quality CEO this side of the pond. Stated earlier in the thread my feelings on the matter, but we really do need an experienced, innovative footballing man watching over matters in L4. Ian Ayre should not be an influential figure in relation to on pitch matters at this club. The commercial aspect? Hes done a great job, but thats where his involvement should end.

      How anyone can compare the process of making the club self-sufficient to the demolition job those two Cancers inflicted upon us is genuinely beyond me. After the fiasco's at Rangers, Portsmouth, Malaga.. Christ even what happened to us two years ago. Im genuinely shocked at how many people are so eager to dismiss the changes they've tried to implement as mere "Cost cutting" and "asset stripping" exercises. Do people forget we posted a -£30 million operating loss just a few months ago? (Thats excluding H&G's £50 million stadium drawings by the way)

      Our wage structure had doubled within the past 6 years. I see people seething at the contracts offered to Cole (100k+ a week), Carra (100k+ a week) and Aquilani (80k+ a week) in one thread, then posting their outrage in another thread at the fact the wage bill was being cut. We have been offering Top 4 contracts to players who were not delivering top 4 performances, if we had continued offering those salaries to average players we would ultimately have gone tits up. Kick and scream all you like, It f**king needed addressing.





      (Courtesy of Veincintno De Mayo on RAWK)

      Im not an FSG apologist, Im not an FSG "fan", and Im as furious with the climax to the transfer window as anyone on this forum. But I genuinely believe they do have a plan and a desire to make Liverpool Football Club successful again. They have made mistakes, and they will make plenty more. It was never going to be a quick fix, and I doubt we'll be challenging for major honors for at least a few seasons.

      But I'd rather see the long term future of my football club prioritized, safe in the knowledge that we are self sufficient, rather than have some Arab Oil Tycoon fly in, throw a couple hundreds of millions at players, get bored after a couple of seasons and then f**k off leaving us in turmoil (RE: Malaga). If that means I have to wait another 2 years to see the fruits of our labor & challenging back at the top.. I'll f**king wait.

      Feel free to throw the "Christ are ye John Henry" line at me, and no I havent been employed to spread FSG PR bullshit to the masses. Im trying to look at the situation we were in 2 years ago with the one we currently lie. I understand peoples frustration, believe it or not I share it. But when you read statements such as "we have gone backwards under FSG", or "They're as bad as H&G" it really leaves me sitting here shaking my head in despair at sometimes.

      Couldn't put it better myself. The calls for a rich oil tycoon to come in and run the club is ignorance of the highest level. FSG have made silly mistakes and should take full accountability, but I trust their business knowledge. After all, they are a sports consortium who specialise in making a profit (albeit they need to learn about football more) rather than some rich mysterious Russian or Arab who knows F**k all about running sports clubs and turns out to be shady.
      JC16
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      • 861 posts | 86 
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #354: Sep 05, 2012 05:33:31 pm
      Just because they can operate in such a way, doesn't make it a good idea.  It's not sustainable.  If we operated that way, we'd end up right where we were 2 years ago.
      Eddieo
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #355: Sep 05, 2012 05:43:18 pm
      Just because they can operate in such a way, doesn't make it a good idea.  It's not sustainable.  If we operated that way, we'd end up right where we were 2 years ago.
      I agree that 70 % is to high but it would not bankrupt us, it would not push us over the edge and it would not put us back to where we were two year ago.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #356: Sep 05, 2012 05:51:46 pm
      I agree that 70 % is to high but it would not bankrupt us, it would not push us over the edge and it would not put us back to where we were two year ago.

      It would because we would have to borrow to buy players, which in turn would drive the wage bill up further which in turn would mean borrowing to buy players which in turn would push the wages up which in turn...

      You see the way it goes?
      Because with only players wages taken into account and no other running costs, we would have little to no money to buy new players, then the usual suspects would be asking why we were skint, where's the money gone, we're being ripped off again by (insert suitable bullshit)
      Eddieo
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #357: Sep 05, 2012 05:57:25 pm
      It would because we would have to borrow to buy players, which in turn would drive the wage bill up further which in turn would mean borrowing to buy players which in turn would push the wages up which in turn...

      You see the way it goes?
      Because with only players wages taken into account and no other running costs, we would have little to no money to buy new players, then the usual suspects would be asking why we were skint, where's the money gone, we're being ripped off again by (insert suitable bullshit)
      No, what you do is buy young inexpensive players with a great sell on value
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #358: Sep 05, 2012 06:39:04 pm
      Eddie, I don't disagree with you on the wages to an extent but we need to remember one thing.

      It totally depends on who we spend the high wages on right?

      A Suarez or Sahin absolutely, Joe Cole, Maxi, Kuyt I don't know if they would deliver CL performances for CL wages.

      Being generous in saying this as I really don't trust them that much anymore but before they start spending on big players/big wages they wanted to get rid of the high wages for small return type of players.
      waltonl4
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #359: Sep 05, 2012 07:12:25 pm
      If they want to look at costs look at the investment and return on Academy players there are loads of them not on big money but altogether they do not return a profit for the club.
      billythered
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 10,964 posts | 5020 
      • From Doubters to Champions of the World
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #360: Sep 05, 2012 08:51:00 pm
      The comparisons with H&G are beyond ridiculous, not arsed what anyone says.

      The only similarity FSG have failed to accomplish even remotely comparable with H&G is their failure to appoint a top quality CEO this side of the pond. Stated earlier in the thread my feelings on the matter, but we really do need an experienced, innovative footballing man watching over matters in L4. Ian Ayre should not be an influential figure in relation to on pitch matters at this club. The commercial aspect? Hes done a great job, but thats where his involvement should end.

      How anyone can compare the process of making the club self-sufficient to the demolition job those two Cancers inflicted upon us is genuinely beyond me. After the fiasco's at Rangers, Portsmouth, Malaga.. Christ even what happened to us two years ago. Im genuinely shocked at how many people are so eager to dismiss the changes they've tried to implement as mere "Cost cutting" and "asset stripping" exercises. Do people forget we posted a -£30 million operating loss just a few months ago? (Thats excluding H&G's £50 million stadium drawings by the way)

      Our wage structure had doubled within the past 6 years. I see people seething at the contracts offered to Cole (100k+ a week), Carra (100k+ a week) and Aquilani (80k+ a week) in one thread, then posting their outrage in another thread at the fact the wage bill was being cut. We have been offering Top 4 contracts to players who were not delivering top 4 performances, if we had continued offering those salaries to average players we would ultimately have gone tits up. Kick and scream all you like, It f**king needed addressing.





      (Courtesy of Veincintno De Mayo on RAWK)

      Im not an FSG apologist, Im not an FSG "fan", and Im as furious with the climax to the transfer window as anyone on this forum. But I genuinely believe they do have a plan and a desire to make Liverpool Football Club successful again. They have made mistakes, and they will make plenty more. It was never going to be a quick fix, and I doubt we'll be challenging for major honors for at least a few seasons.

      But I'd rather see the long term future of my football club prioritized, safe in the knowledge that we are self sufficient, rather than have some Arab Oil Tycoon fly in, throw a couple hundreds of millions at players, get bored after a couple of seasons and then f**k off leaving us in turmoil (RE: Malaga). If that means I have to wait another 2 years to see the fruits of our labor & challenging back at the top.. I'll f**king wait.

      Feel free to throw the "Christ are ye John Henry" line at me, and no I havent been employed to spread FSG PR bullshit to the masses. Im trying to look at the situation we were in 2 years ago with the one we currently lie. I understand peoples frustration, believe it or not I share it. But when you read statements such as "we have gone backwards under FSG", or "They're as bad as H&G" it really leaves me sitting here shaking my head in despair at sometimes.

      Fantastic post Danny, ye of little faith, read this and weep, we can all berate and f***in moan, F**k me even i have, but at the end of the day our club will still be solvent, and although this window has dramatically smashed,(we don't need Glazers,  ;D ) i still have faith in JWH & co,

      they have of course totally fu**ed things up, we can all see that, and i think they do to, hence that pathetic letter, but lets not all call for the executioner just yet, give them some space people, let the dust settle and lets just see how far we can go or do under the present skeletal squad,

      we've played 3 of 38, miles to early to sharpen the axes, so lets all get behind Brendan and the lads and see where they can take us, forget Jwh,forget his nasty patronising letter, and lets show Brendan exactly why we are the best support on the planet.

           IBWT   YNWA
      TheRedMosquito
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      • 12,201 posts | 633 
      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #361: Sep 05, 2012 09:01:06 pm
      I think they've lost the faith of quite a few supporters. That deadline day debacle is pretty shameful and left us very thin up front. Having said that, I think they can rectify the situation if there's a good January window. Let's just hope it isn't too late by then.
      MaxC
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #362: Sep 05, 2012 09:26:24 pm
      Come on corbally as much as the current owners have annoyed many of us over the sacking of Kenny Dalglish and their actions over the summer transfer window, you have to admit they are by far the better owners than Twit and T**t were.
      Twits and tw*ts losts approximately 250 million of their own money by the way. I never liked those two cowboys and my dislike for them was because of these factors:
      1. Stadium: They build F**k all and wasted many millions on it.
      2. Transfers: They did not get in players rafa wanted and hence players such as Silva, Villa, Jovetic, Falcao etc are plying their trade elsewhere.
      3. Manager: They undermined Rafa at every turn and appointed Purslime to oversee football matters. They sacked Rafa and appointed Roy but never supported their new man sufficiently in the Transfer Market.
      4. They were continually stripping the team of quality and not replacing them.

      In hindsight we could say their reign was heavily influenced by the global economic downturn and the increasing interests rates which were unsustainable and eventually led to the bank denying them refinancing. However they could argue the lost their own money as well and build a squad which was the finest Anfield had seen in 20 years but had to sell playing staff to pay interests for their loans. So all in all Twit and tw*t could blame the financial market for their failure.

      Now FSG.
      1. Stadium: Being honest folks they have told us upfront they ain't building nothing. But they do give us the impression that they are doing something even if in reality they are doing nothing.
      2. Transfers: They have spend some money on Andy, Downing, Henderson, Allen however 50 million of the transfer fee came from a single Twit and tw*t signing. They will spend only what the club earns so they have been very honest about it and we the fans appreciate their honest with platini's masterpiece looming.
      3. Manager: They have always supported their managers. Roy and Kenny were backed fully by Werner and Henry who told us that they were patient and it was a long term project and their jobs were fully safe. To kenny they gave some cash but with the rider than Comolli their main man was going to oversee transfers and i don't have to remind what follows. They make Kenny grovel in the dirt in front of Whiskey nose in the Evra scandal because of Standard Charter the bank who are not so ethical themselves or are they. And after publicly backing their managers repeatedly now we have Rodgers who they also publicly back.
      5. Team: Well we all know our squad nothing to say.

      So let us all individually compare the reign of Twit and tw*t and FSG and come to our own conclusions individually. But let me be clear, I was one of those who said Twit and tw*t Out and did not support them. FSG saved us from administration but a club like liverpool will never go into administration because of the value of the club. Even if they had not come in others would have and did so at the time. FSG continually blame the previous regime for the weak playing squad and bloated wage bill. However i am sure Twit and tw*t's team would have twated Henry and Werner's team 99 times out of 100.
      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #363: Sep 05, 2012 10:55:59 pm
      I agree that 70 % is to high but it would not bankrupt us, it would not push us over the edge and it would not put us back to where we were two year ago.

      Last season, the 4th highest goal scorer in the league was Emmanuel Adebayor. He was a loan signing and scored 17 goals. He'd have high wages but without a transfer fee attached it would have been more sustainable. Demba Ba scored 16 goals last season and I doubt he's on the highest wages in Newcastle never mind the league. Papiss Demba Cissé scored 16 goals and was only there half a season. An extra 16 or 17 goals could have meant a CL finish last season.

      You don't have to spend big wages or big transfer fees to get a top goal scorer, you need a decent scout set up. Ours appears second rate and needs sorting out as a priority.
      redkop63
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 6,890 posts | 455 
      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #364: Sep 06, 2012 12:32:30 pm
      I agree that the club must be self-sustain in the long run. I don't feel comfortable with the statement of "with great sell on value" that keeps cropping-up from time to time from FSG that gives me the impression that they are looking forward to sell prized  players in future.

      Do they sincerely mean what they said to return this club to its former glory? If they sell their best players when a good offer comes along, how can that be achieved? You keep your best players over the years and as long as possible to compete for honours unless players are looking to move on and continue to replenish with new players who are equally good or better.

      I am just giving it a thought, what if those young players that we bought did not turn out to be what we expected while key players are aging and slowly phasing out. We will then  have more than a mountain to climb. Hence, I can't agree with FSG that we have to always buy young and cheap. Young yes, cheap not necessary, you need quality players to continue to compete with the top 4 and to ensure that we survive the present before we even think too much about the future. There must be a balance act somehow.

      I feel sorry for Brendan and I’m giving him my full support. The Dempsey deal collapsed, reasons best known to FSG and the least I expect them to do is to help the manager out by getting in an alternative player. This is a very vey irresponsible act and they can’t just walked away as if nothing has happened.

      Not sure whether they are really here for long term, I’m beginning to doubt.

      ruthcity
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #365: Sep 06, 2012 01:30:01 pm
      I fear that we'll just muddle along, like Arsenal over the past few years. They don't exactly win things. All they did was to ensure they stayed in the CL and have access to the CL money. They didn't have to win anything. But the economics stack up. They don't spend a whole lot and yet they collected money by selling players. While it is economically viable, this model will never make fans happy.

      And when you have business people who do not know the game running the club, this will eventually become an enterprise that will probably survive financially and muddle along but never gain further glory. At the end of the day it's not life and death for the owners but another of their business ventures.

      They'll probably float the club on NYSE eventually.
      soxfan
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #366: Sep 06, 2012 02:06:34 pm
      The wages we were paying are comparable with the other teams who expected to win the EPL or Champions league

       You don't get a Ferrari for the cost off a mini , we were a team who competed at the highest level and with that come higher wages

       Now it seem as if we are expected to compete with Champion league teams on a Euro league budget

       
      How many win races by paying Ferrari prices for minis though (Cole, Carragher, etc.)? That's what we've been doing lately and that's what they're trying to correct. We've still got overpriced Minis in our garage and until we get rid of them we can't buy more Ferraris.
      MIRO
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      Re: John Henrys open letter to fans.
      Reply #367: Sep 06, 2012 02:19:15 pm
      The comparisons with H&G are beyond ridiculous, not arsed what anyone says.

      The only similarity FSG have failed to accomplish even remotely comparable with H&G is their failure to appoint a top quality CEO this side of the pond. Stated earlier in the thread my feelings on the matter, but we really do need an experienced, innovative footballing man watching over matters in L4. Ian Ayre should not be an influential figure in relation to on pitch matters at this club. The commercial aspect? Hes done a great job, but thats where his involvement should end.

      How anyone can compare the process of making the club self-sufficient to the demolition job those two Cancers inflicted upon us is genuinely beyond me. After the fiasco's at Rangers, Portsmouth, Malaga.. Christ even what happened to us two years ago. Im genuinely shocked at how many people are so eager to dismiss the changes they've tried to implement as mere "Cost cutting" and "asset stripping" exercises. Do people forget we posted a -£30 million operating loss just a few months ago? (Thats excluding H&G's £50 million stadium drawings by the way)

      Our wage structure had doubled within the past 6 years. I see people seething at the contracts offered to Cole (100k+ a week), Carra (100k+ a week) and Aquilani (80k+ a week) in one thread, then posting their outrage in another thread at the fact the wage bill was being cut. We have been offering Top 4 contracts to players who were not delivering top 4 performances, if we had continued offering those salaries to average players we would ultimately have gone tits up. Kick and scream all you like, It f**king needed addressing.





      (Courtesy of Veincintno De Mayo on RAWK)

      Im not an FSG apologist, Im not an FSG "fan", and Im as furious with the climax to the transfer window as anyone on this forum. But I genuinely believe they do have a plan and a desire to make Liverpool Football Club successful again. They have made mistakes, and they will make plenty more. It was never going to be a quick fix, and I doubt we'll be challenging for major honors for at least a few seasons.

      But I'd rather see the long term future of my football club prioritized, safe in the knowledge that we are self sufficient, rather than have some Arab Oil Tycoon fly in, throw a couple hundreds of millions at players, get bored after a couple of seasons and then f**k off leaving us in turmoil (RE: Malaga). If that means I have to wait another 2 years to see the fruits of our labor & challenging back at the top.. I'll f**king wait.

      Feel free to throw the "Christ are ye John Henry" line at me, and no I havent been employed to spread FSG PR bullshit to the masses. Im trying to look at the situation we were in 2 years ago with the one we currently lie. I understand peoples frustration, believe it or not I share it. But when you read statements such as "we have gone backwards under FSG", or "They're as bad as H&G" it really leaves me sitting here shaking my head in despair at sometimes.



      Love yer work

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