If a player doesn't “Give 100%”...

Its all ifs and buts George ,the truth i didnt like it one bit ,you as always are making an assumption that because he rested players we won the CL ,when realistically it is not as simple as that, anyhow back on topic any player not giving his best in any game for us wants his bollocks pulled off, the best players always want to play and win thats why they stand out ,same as any other sport ,the people who really want it stand out and shine ,sadly at the moment we dont have enough players who really want it.

So what did you think when Rafa was resting players to enable us to be fresh for the CL and then to help us win it ?

Truthfully?

I hated it.

I'd rather of seen us go and win every League game as well as every Champions League game as opposed to prioritising one over the other.

As it turned out we won the European Cup and yes it was the greatest sporting night of many Liverpool fans' lives. Finishing behind Everton in the League is still not something I look back on with any joy however.

Truthfully?

I hated it.

I'd rather of seen us go and win every League game as well as every Champions League game as opposed to prioritising one over the other.

As it turned out we won the European Cup and yes it was the greatest sporting night of many Liverpool fans' lives. Finishing behind Everton in the League is still not something I look back on with any joy however.

But can you understand the reasons why it is now common place within the game as much as its not liked

But can you understand the reasons why it is now common place within the game as much as its not liked

Yes mate I can. (genuine football fan's head talking)

I can't understand, however, how any Liverpool manager can feel any game involving Liverpool Football Club isn't worthy of their best side. (biased, passionate, only care about Liverpool fan's heart talking)

Yes mate I can. (genuine football fan's head talking)

I can't understand, however, how any Liverpool manager can feel any game involving Liverpool Football Club isn't worthy of their best side. (biased, passionate, only care about Liverpool fan's heart talking)

And that is fair enough.

I think these days though its bloody hard to know who is the strongest 11

I think currently we have

Suarez , Johnson , Agger , Skrtel , Pepe and Lucas when fit are guaranteed strongest 11 players - then players like Gerrard , Allen , Enrique and Sterling are prob involved as well.

Plenty of anachronism here. The game has changed and is much more demanding nowadays, players can't be expected to play every game of every competition and deal fine with it. Very few will do. Teams that have tried to do so to different degrees have failed in different fronts - it's not possible to always play the very best of your squad without the luxury of a big money all star squad.

Recently I've read a scientific study analyzing the impact of European football to small clubs like Auxerre and Villarreal. The Spanish club in particular, very recently the example of how a small city team can still be relatively successful (having reached a UCL semifinal against all the odds), did not have the financial backing to sustain a squad of the same quality in depth of its competitors. With the added fixtures of the European calendar, the club faded and it ultimately sent them to the 2nd division.

Obviously, fatigue isn't the only explanation for their downfall. To deny the increased impact it has in modern football, however, is living in the past.

By the way, it's even more anachronistic to say managers did not rotate their teams decades ago. They did... and to do so, for a while they counted on huge squads based on the fact there was a maximum wage for footballers, so it was possible for clubs to sustain a big number of players who were rarely used.

Rotating teams and prioritizing competitions in detriment of others wasn't so much a feature of the game as it is today, but looking at it as a totally new animal is stretching the point way too much.

And that is fair enough.

I think these days though its bloody hard to know who is the strongest 11

I think currently we have

Suarez , Johnson , Agger , Skrtel , Pepe and Lucas when fit are guaranteed strongest 11 players - then players like Gerrard , Allen , Enrique and Sterling are prob involved as well.

I think, judging by Brendan's selections earlier in the season, he does fancy Martin Kelly at right back with Johnson on the left. And that's something I'm more than happy with. Maybe pushing Enrique further up field on the left wing will help that.

Sterling looks nailed down on either of the two wings at the moment. Gerrard will always be a regular starter I think. (it'd take some brave c**t not to pick him). Allen seems like Brendan's blue eyed boy - though I'll be honest I don't really rate him that highly meself. And I'd assume Lucas will play when fit but if not it looks like Shelvey is next on the list.

And up front of course we have Suarez.

So I think Brendan will know his best XI, whether he's had a chance to play it yet is another question.

But even in that XI, there's still some weak areas for me. I'm not a fan of Enrique and don't believe he's playing out of his skin of late, just slightly better than usual because he hasn't had to defend as much. As I stated I don't rate Allen too highly, especially if he's to be paired with Lucas because our attacking threat from the middle looks to be next to nothing. I think there was a thread on here about them being more like Mascherano and Lucas or Mascherano and Alonso. From what I've seen of Allen and from what I know we'll get from Lucas, it looks to be more like Mascherano and Lucas in terms of attacking threat.

But that team (Reina, Kelly, Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Sterling, Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Enrique, Suarez) should have enough quality to play week in week out.

Lucas is a more complete player than Allen and a better footballer than his holding position suggests. Hopefully Allen and Lucas will be compatible and I would move Stevie out wide with Sterling and him swapping from time to time.
Just a thought but should we find ourselves with only the league to compete in come January will rotation still be necessary.But ~I agree their is more than enough in that team to be a lot further up the league.

Plenty of anachronism here. The game has changed and is much more demanding nowadays, players can't be expected to play every game of every competition and deal fine with it. Very few will do. Teams that have tried to do so to different degrees have failed in different fronts - it's not possible to always play the very best of your squad without the luxury of a big money all star squad.

Recently I've read a scientific study analyzing the impact of European football to small clubs like Auxerre and Villarreal. The Spanish club in particular, very recently the example of how a small city team can still be relatively successful (having reached a UCL semifinal against all the odds), did not have the financial backing to sustain a squad of the same quality in depth of its competitors. With the added fixtures of the European calendar, the club faded and it ultimately sent them to the 2nd division.

Obviously, fatigue isn't the only explanation for their downfall. To deny the increased impact it has in modern football, however, is living in the past.

By the way, it's even more anachronistic to say managers did not rotate their teams decades ago. They did... and to do so, for a while they counted on huge squads based on the fact there was a maximum wage for footballers, so it was possible for clubs to sustain a big number of players who were rarely used.

Rotating teams and prioritizing competitions in detriment of others wasn't so much a feature of the game as it is today, but looking at it as a totally new animal is stretching the point way too much.

+1

Great informative post

I think, judging by Brendan's selections earlier in the season, he does fancy Martin Kelly at right back with Johnson on the left. And that's something I'm more than happy with. Maybe pushing Enrique further up field on the left wing will help that.

Sterling looks nailed down on either of the two wings at the moment. Gerrard will always be a regular starter I think. (it'd take some brave c**t not to pick him). Allen seems like Brendan's blue eyed boy - though I'll be honest I don't really rate him that highly meself. And I'd assume Lucas will play when fit but if not it looks like Shelvey is next on the list.

And up front of course we have Suarez.

So I think Brendan will know his best XI, whether he's had a chance to play it yet is another question.

But even in that XI, there's still some weak areas for me. I'm not a fan of Enrique and don't believe he's playing out of his skin of late, just slightly better than usual because he hasn't had to defend as much. As I stated I don't rate Allen too highly, especially if he's to be paired with Lucas because our attacking threat from the middle looks to be next to nothing. I think there was a thread on here about them being more like Mascherano and Lucas or Mascherano and Alonso. From what I've seen of Allen and from what I know we'll get from Lucas, it looks to be more like Mascherano and Lucas in terms of attacking threat.

But that team (Reina, Kelly, Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Sterling, Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Enrique, Suarez) should have enough quality to play week in week out.

They do - but not the super human physical fitness levels to allow them to compete at 100% in every single game

Obviously some people don't get the ignore button.

 

 

Agree

Really funny how someone knows what someone is posting when on ignore

Thank god you're not a football manager

You need a big dose of reality.

And you need to know that footballers are never 100% injury-proof.

Resting players that worked once doesn't justify it as a permanent measure. I also remember Burnley, Barnsley, Reading and Northampton who all benefitted from our coach fielding weakened sides in cup competitions.

Today you can score a hatrick on Saturday and be out of the team on WEDS.
I believe in playing your strongest possible team and players know if they do well they keep the shirt.Take Downing or Henderson playing in the Europa league they know full well that no matter what happens they will be out come the weekend that must be a real downer for a player knowing the manager does not rate you.

I remember seeing Cavalieri's face after the Reading FA Cup game. It must have been more upsetting for him knowing he would never play for us again because of the result that night. Sure enough he never did.

The best way of getting a first team place is by earning the shirt on merit, not because it's a cup game or not. That upsets players, cheats fans, and disrespects competitions. And serves no worthwhile purpose anyway.

Here is the way it is..no matter how you want to cut it this is what it comes down too.

It will never change no matter the opinions or how much we bi*ch and moan about it.

The players are a commodity, they know it and the people that paid for them and write the checks to them every week knows it.

Luis Suarez is worth about 40 million fit. He gets paid 2-3 million a year. LFC has a lot invested in him now and going forward.

Therefore they are not going to risk his health, and neither should we want them too.

Cup competitions/Europe/Premier league/National duties is a lot of football for someone like Luis Suarez. Improper rest can lead to ligament/nerve damage that is a proven medical fact that did not exist 30 years ago...now it does.

So if you all want to take someone like Luis and run him til he drops over in a few years with ACL/MCL damage then fine so be it, but I would rather control his workload to make sure he stays fit his career.

And you need to know that footballers are never 100% injury-proof.

Resting players that worked once doesn't justify it as a permanent measure. I also remember Burnley, Barnsley, Reading and Northampton who all benefitted from our coach fielding weakened sides in cup competitions.

I remember seeing Cavalieri's face after the Reading FA Cup game. It must have been more upsetting for him knowing he would never play for us again because of the result that night. Sure enough he never did.

The best way of getting a first team place is by earning the shirt on merit, not because it's a cup game or not. That upsets players, cheats fans, and disrespects competitions. And serves no worthwhile purpose anyway.

Well it worked to help us win a CL - that's good enough for me - that to me seems a very worthwhile purpose

World Class Top of the Pile Trophy CL and Title Winners do it - guess who knows more about managing a squad of players ? Them or you ?

They do it for valid and good reason. It's quite clear why they do. Maybe one day you will realise that.

Here is the way it is..no matter how you want to cut it this is what it comes down too.

It will never change no matter the opinions or how much we bi*ch and moan about it.

The players are a commodity, they know it and the people that paid for them and write the checks to them every week knows it.

Luis Suarez is worth about 40 million fit. He gets paid 2-3 million a year. LFC has a lot invested in him now and going forward.

Therefore they are not going to risk his health, and neither should we want them too.

Cup competitions/Europe/Premier league/National duties is a lot of football for someone like Luis Suarez. Improper rest can lead to ligament/nerve damage that is a proven medical fact that did not exist 30 years ago...now it does.

So if you all want to take someone like Luis and run him til he drops over in a few years with ACL/MCL damage then fine so be it, but I would rather control his workload to make sure he stays fit his career.

Back of the net !! Summed up brilliantly +1

I was watching the Sunderland-Q.P.R. match when the the commentator made an interesting comment that aptly fits into the heading of this thread.
          Here is the comment-Some players do not have the will or inclination to win,in other words they are quite happy to pick up their big pay and not worry about the result and what it means to the supporters.We at Anfield have had examples of this type of player  on several occasions over recent years.

Ditto walton, according to George Lucas after all your years of watching L.F.C. you cannot possibly know as much as him regarding how football is played.Now this may well cost me a ban but I have had enough of his diatribe where he makes out that nobody else can possibly know as much about modern day football as him.I have come to the conclusion that George Lucas is MacRed reincarnated.

Ditto walton, according to George Lucas after all your years of watching L.F.C. you cannot possibly know as much as him regarding how football is played.Now this may well cost me a ban but I have had enough of his diatribe where he makes out that nobody else can possibly know as much about modern day football as him.I have come to the conclusion that George Lucas is MacRed reincarnated.

Could you please at least try to be civil and stop posting digs and insults about me - if you don't like my posts that much then follow your buddies and ignore me.

I think I understand your point BBB, and it is interesting. A player looking after himself and not making gut busting runs for 90 mins so he can peak later in the season and avoid strains, pulls etc. is completely unacceptable. But a manager resting key players for certain games, reducing our chances of winning for the same reasons is perfectly ok?

**For the record I'm not condoning or condemning either action, just making sure I understand.**

That's it '91.

Very good topic Bad Boy

Thanks 'debs; I appreciate that.

To be honest I just wanted to see what makes us think the way we do as fans. There is no right nor wrong answers as far as I was concerned - that's why I asked for no rowing and no spamming. How daft was I; eh? 

I just wanted to, maybe' read something that would make me think "you know what... maybe I should accept us fielding an understrength team, in cups, in the hope of a better league position." [which is something I actually referenced in the O.P. but has got lost in the white noise of 'he who must be heard'].

I know why we don't accept anything less than 100% from the individual and...  I know why we "prioritise" as a club - money - the league is a better payer but even then I still can't see how that money has enhanced our standing as a club. As a fan I just can't bring myself into accepting institutionalised not giving 100% (strongest team possible = 100%; anything else, by default, is less) - that maybe a failing on my part.

Thanks for trying.

* slips out of thread before the Springer Spaniel pup comes back in demanding that we all look at him. 

Edit: Oops... too late. 

Could you please at least try to be civil and stop posting digs and insults about me - if you don't like my posts that much then follow your buddies and ignore me.

When you stop treating people as though they do not have a clue about the game today.For your imformation I think I understand as much about the modern game and more importantly about LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB as you do.As regards following my buddies as you call them ,I hold them in high regard  and sadly I cannot ever see you earning that respect.

When you stop treating people as though they do not have a clue about the game today.For your imformation I think I understand as much about the modern game and more importantly about LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB as you do.As regards following my buddies as you call them ,I hold them in high regard  and sadly I cannot ever see you earning that respect.

I never said I know more about the club than you ?

Can you please stop posting digs about me - that applies anyone else who feels the need to do it either blatently or on the sly.

Thank you

Plenty of anachronism here. The game has changed and is much more demanding nowadays, players can't be expected to play every game of every competition and deal fine with it. Very few will do. Teams that have tried to do so to different degrees have failed in different fronts - it's not possible to always play the very best of your squad without the luxury of a big money all star squad.

Recently I've read a scientific study analyzing the impact of European football to small clubs like Auxerre and Villarreal. The Spanish club in particular, very recently the example of how a small city team can still be relatively successful (having reached a UCL semifinal against all the odds), did not have the financial backing to sustain a squad of the same quality in depth of its competitors. With the added fixtures of the European calendar, the club faded and it ultimately sent them to the 2nd division.

Obviously, fatigue isn't the only explanation for their downfall. To deny the increased impact it has in modern football, however, is living in the past.

By the way, it's even more anachronistic to say managers did not rotate their teams decades ago. They did... and to do so, for a while they counted on huge squads based on the fact there was a maximum wage for footballers, so it was possible for clubs to sustain a big number of players who were rarely used.

Rotating teams and prioritizing competitions in detriment of others wasn't so much a feature of the game as it is today, but looking at it as a totally new animal is stretching the point way too much.

Excellent topic BBB, been considering it and I think Diego pretty much hits the nail on the head for me so I'll not add to it in any way just echo these thoughts.