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      The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.

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      bigmick
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      The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Jan 15, 2013 12:28:29 pm
       I got to thinking this morning about our away matches principally, at top teams. In many ways, our performances have been remarkably similar and the games themselves have panned out in the same way. Given we've got away matches at Man City and Arsenal coming up very shortly, it might be time to look at our approach if we want to become a top team ourselves again.

       So the games I'm on about are Man U away, Chelsea away and Tottenham away. Now to my mind, in all three we went into the matches with an inferiority complex and never did ourselves any kind of justice for the first hour. We confused keeping posession with controlling the game, and whats more our determination to do the former at all costs allowed the home teams to press us high and put us under pressure. In all three matches the approach was singularly unsuccessful, and we were left in a situation where we had to chase the game. Here's the rub though, in all three matches once we had to chase the game we looked like a much better side.

       In the Chelsea match we only had to come back from one down thanks to some dodgy finishing from them. Most Chelsea fans I've talked to since reckon they were well and truly hanging onto a point at the end. At Spurs and Man U we got battered, but once we had a bit of a go towards the last third of the match we looked much the better team on view.

       So my point is this. Lets go to the Emirtes and the Etihaad and lets have a go. Lets play Suarez AND Sturridge AND Borini, and lets see if teams are quite so willing then to press us so high up. Lets go into both games and genuinely try and win them, not just paying lip service to "lets win if we can". See, that's what big teams do. The Mancs of both colours go Away and try to win. Yes they'll defend, and defend properly when they have to, but when they've got the ball they'll flood forward in numbers.  I've long thought that as a bunch of players and as a bunch of fans we're far more comfortable when we go for it than we are if we "hold what we have" and all that nonsense. Rafa's best season was when he "took off the shackles" and I think Brendan is going to have to realise it too.

       If I was playing against us, I'd want us to try and sit in and defend. Why? Cos we ain't that good at it. Lets do what teams don't want us to do, front foot from now on please.   
      brilad
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #1: Jan 15, 2013 12:36:05 pm
      Best form of defence ATTACK,totally agree ,now with the options of Sturridge and Borroni back from injury let's have a pop .
      Brian78
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #2: Jan 15, 2013 01:32:35 pm
      Its not just Liverpool, its football as a whole.

      Watched match of the day Saturday night, Villa Southampton. Villa were a joke for much of it. Last 10 minutes they are like Brazil. Waht do we go and do Sunday? Same, shambles in everything we do until we go 2 down. Tehn we go for it with 2 extra attackers and pin utd back and should have got something from the game.

      Now why approach with the mentallity of caution but then go attacking when 2 down. Why not start attacking go 2 up and then sit back defend and try and catch on the break, no matter what ground your playing at.

      Go have a go thats the only mentallity needed
      MIRO
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #3: Jan 15, 2013 04:34:11 pm
      Mentality.
      Its all down to habit.

      When Big Ron Yeats took to the field with the lads we were already 1-0 up in the mind of the opposition.
      Utd will always have an inferiority complex with us because we won those Cups the hard way and they know it.
      Two decades of us sleeping and they are still only 1 title in front.

      Kenny needs to come back in some and come back soon to provide a Spine to this club.
      Stevie and Carra need to be locked in to carry the DNA forward.
      Robbie Rushie and Others need to be retained by the club to keep our tradition in the mind of our players.

      Brendan patting Ferguson on the back made me want to put my fingers down my throat.
      Kenny telling Wenger to piss off ............. thats us.

      Half of this team are sh*te.
      Complete sh*te. 
      We are just wimping around here. We are not a Premier League winning side and any delusions of grandeur are a joke.

      Mourinho drilled his players to go out on to the field like gladiators.
      Mind conditioning.

      Here we are sat on the forum F***ing about with topics  that defy belief!
      We doubt that our team can win a match when we do a pre match poll.

      The club and players need a kick up the arse and a reminder who they are playing for.
      Its no good touching the This Is Anfield sign. Does that mean anything to the opposition anymore?

      We have an amazing and proud legacy we can build on. The envy of clubs around the world.

      Its time to bring back the Boot Room and all of its principles.

      THE LIVERPOOL WAY.
      srslfc
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #4: Jan 15, 2013 06:06:10 pm
      Good post Mick but I think the mentality has to change from those above the players, management and owners, first as their negativity filters down to the players.

      Being told we can't compete gives the players the excuse not to. Players such as Suarez won't be affected by this by their own winning character but we have many players who will be.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #5: Jan 15, 2013 06:45:14 pm
      To have the mentality of a top team we need a manager that has the mentality of a top manager, in Rodgers we don't have that right now, so anything else is pissing in the wind unfortunately.
      Billy1
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #6: Jan 15, 2013 06:49:24 pm
      Mentality.
      Its all down to habit.

      When Big Ron Yeats took to the field with the lads we were already 1-0 up in the mind of the opposition.
      Utd will always have an inferiority complex with us because we won those Cups the hard way and they know it.
      Two decades of us sleeping and they are still only 1 title in front.

      Kenny needs to come back in some and come back soon to provide a Spine to this club.
      Stevie and Carra need to be locked in to carry the DNA forward.
      Robbie Rushie and Others need to be retained by the club to keep our tradition in the mind of our players.

      Brendan patting Ferguson on the back made me want to put my fingers down my throat.
      Kenny telling Wenger to piss off ............. thats us.

      Half of this team are sh*te.
      Complete sh*te. 
      We are just wimping around here. We are not a Premier League winning side and any delusions of grandeur are a joke.

      Mourinho drilled his players to go out on to the field like gladiators.
      Mind conditioning.

      Here we are sat on the forum f**king about with topics  that defy belief!
      We doubt that our team can win a match when we do a pre match poll.

      The club and players need a kick up the arse and a reminder who they are playing for.
      Its no good touching the This Is Anfield sign. Does that mean anything to the opposition anymore?

      We have an amazing and proud legacy we can build on. The envy of clubs around the world.

      Its time to bring back the Boot Room and all of its principles.

      THE LIVERPOOL WAY.
      Well said Skip well said, like the true Liverpool supporter you are,good man i am proud of you,well worth a plus.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #7: Jan 15, 2013 07:08:46 pm
      Brendan patting Ferguson on the back made me want to put my fingers down my throat.
      Kenny telling Wenger to piss off ............. thats us.

      Mentioned this in the match thread too mate, felt exactly the same. As for Kenny telling Arsene to piss off, loved it and as you rightly say, that's us and why if the media handling was one of the reasons he's not here then just further proves how FSG don't get us unfortunately.
      bigmick
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #8: Jan 15, 2013 07:29:03 pm
      To have the mentality of a top team we need a manager that has the mentality of a top manager, in Rodgers we don't have that right now, so anything else is pissing in the wind unfortunately.


       Well I'll say in that case what everyone seems to be afraid of saying. All this "I support the manager but...." bullsh!t is getting on my nerves. If people don't support the manager (and if this forum is anything to go by they don't) then we should change the manager. No manager ever gets success at a club where the fans aren't behind him. No club ever wins things while everyone isn't united in a common cause.


       So if people get their wish (and I know we'll get the "who said they want him out?" sh!te) who do they want instead? Whoever it is, I'll back them 100% because I want the team to win things, not because I'm laying claim to be any kjind of superfan. Unless the fan base unite behind a manager, any manager, we're f*cked. And don't either give me any sh!t about "but you didn't unite behind Rafa", because I did for four f*cking seasons not for four months. Get in whoever you like, but whoever it is give the bloke a chance for more than half a season for f*cks sake. Let me know when you've all decided who is going to gate crash us into the the top four next season with FSG holding the purse strings. Like I say, I'll get 100% behind him even if it's the messiah himself.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #9: Jan 15, 2013 07:47:51 pm
      Never said I wanted a change of manager Mick.

      Does Rodgers have the mentality of a top manager ?

      No he doesn't.

      So until he develops that mentality the team won't develop it as they take to the field under his instructions.

      Its not rocket science.

      You starting this thread asking for a change of mentality shows subconsciously you are not happy with how Rodgers is sending us on out on the pitch.

      I've gave Rodgers a chance and I'm still giving him a chance, he's had a chance all season long to identify the problems within our tactics and iron them out, yet they are still evident and a frequent occurence.

      I'll continue to give Rodgers a chance to do that until the end of the season, but that doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth zipped and say nothing about where he's lacking so far.
      « Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 08:00:06 pm by RedLFCBlood »
      srslfc
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #10: Jan 15, 2013 07:50:34 pm
      If Brendan has a winning mentality he keeps it very well hidden.

      Not me wanting him out Mick, just an observation.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #11: Jan 15, 2013 07:54:19 pm
      Well it starts from the top & works it way down.

      Owners, manager to supporters.

      Brian78
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #12: Jan 15, 2013 08:12:31 pm
      Just so people like me who are missing this "he hasnt got a winning mentality" thing can you please point out a few things he's done or has not done to hammer home this view?
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #13: Jan 15, 2013 08:16:02 pm
      If Brendan has a winning mentality he keeps it very well hidden.

      Not me wanting him out Mick, just an observation.

      Exactly mate, if you keep telling the lads they are not quite good enough and eventually they'll start to believe it.

      Tell the lads they can achieve anything through team work, hard work and effort because they are a good group of footballers and eventually they'll start to believe it.

      I'm sure the majority of players in our squad don't want to hear 'I haven't yet got the players to play my system' or 'we'll develop our aggression when I get my players in' etc

      That's about as demotivational as you can get IMO.

      Puts doubts into players heads about if they are rated by the manager and if they are going to be the first out of the door when he gets his players in.

      To have a winning mentality on the pitch, the manager needs to develop one and filter it down to his current crop of players.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #14: Jan 15, 2013 08:28:54 pm
      Just so people like me who are missing this "he hasnt got a winning mentality" thing can you please point out a few things he's done or has not done to hammer home this view?

      Quite easy Brian.

      All the massive job to get us back to where we belong polava.

      That's defeatist, he's conceeded were not good enough.

      When you conceed you are not good enough, results don't matter that much.

      That's the impression I get with Rodgers.

      Until he's 'assembled his squad' results are meaningless because 'these players are not good enough to play his system'.

      A manager with a winning mentality would play to his current players strengths to help obtain the best results possible, not stick with a system he frequently reminds every one he needs 'his players' to make it work.
      Red5man
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #15: Jan 15, 2013 08:36:27 pm
      We've got a bunch of world class managers on the forum
      shabbadoo
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #16: Jan 15, 2013 08:37:21 pm
      We've got a bunch of world class managers on the forum

      Indeed we do & I love their winning mentality.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #17: Jan 15, 2013 08:43:18 pm
      Indeed we do & I love their winning mentality.

      Touche ;D
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #18: Jan 15, 2013 08:44:47 pm
      I haven't seen many posters on here say they want Rodgers out. Certainly none of the regulars anyway. Seems if you don't say the sun shines out of Rodgers' arse you want him out.

      Be surprised if anybody is 100% happy as of now so what else is there to discuss? Not all going to be positive is it? People who are happy can go and sit in the 'Accepting Mediocrity' thread and they can F***ing stay there.

      If Rodgers can have the side playing with the menatlity he did during the second half at Greyskull on Sunday then we won't go far wrong with one or two more additions to the squad.

      Redtrader
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #19: Jan 15, 2013 08:49:35 pm
      I would love a change in mentality, and thought that BR finally understood as the games during and just after he was ill were played with greater intent and pace and directness, but it seems it was a false dawn.

      Any team is a reflection of the manager, and if everyone agrees that the mentality has been poor we need to look no further than Brendan.

      I, like most I suspect, never wanted Brendan as manager, but when I get to matches I don't sit there bitching, booing or groaning at what he does, I go there to support, but in the pub or here I will bloody well voice my concerns and not blindly accept what Brendan does or says, JUST like everyone else has done about our other managers at some time, so I don't know why BR should be immune.

      If Brendan changes his, and therefore the teams, mentality and plays to our strengths we will see better results and performances.
      Brian78
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #20: Jan 15, 2013 08:50:33 pm
      Quite easy Brian.

      All the massive job to get us back to where we belong polava.

      That's defeatist, he's conceeded were not good enough.

      When you conceed you are not good enough, results don't matter that much.

      That's the impression I get with Rodgers.

      Until he's 'assembled his squad' results are meaningless because 'these players are not good enough to play his system'.

      A manager with a winning mentality would play to his current players strengths to help obtain the best results possible, not stick with a system he frequently reminds every one he needs 'his players' to make it work.

      On the contrary its honest. Lets not kid ourselves we have been no better then 7th the last few years. Any manager who came in and told us he'd have us back to the top would be lying and leaving himself out to hang. And our fanbase woukl not be happy with a man promising titles only to languish in mid table again come January.

      If we were top now he'd be applauded for taking pressue off the players at the start of the season with his comments.

      In modern times I know only of Mourinho who came in gave instant success to his club. He had huge financial backing there and a decent squad already in place. Ferguson took years, Mancini even with his financial backing that matches that of Chelsea didnt have instant success. So I think for us to expect Rodgers or any man to come in and have us top is more then unfair.

      To question his mentality as a manager after 6 months is even more unfair. Id praise him for having a plan and sticking with it until it comes good. I admire him for giving youth a chance. More then a few have palyed at some point this season. A season or 2 from now theyll have gained good experience and be well adjusted to Rodgers tactic/style. Maybe then we can really question the boss and his mentality.

      Finally, on Sunday he made errors in his tactics in the first half but at least tried early in the 2nd half to change it with 2 strikers coming on. Im not convinced Kenny or Rafa wouldhave done that. Maybe if we let him learn from his mistakes he will prove to be more then capable mentally tactically every way to be a winner
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #21: Jan 15, 2013 08:58:25 pm
      I don't believe it is being honest Brian.

      The way I see it is quite simple.

      If Rodgers had a winning mentality, he'd adapt his tactics/system/philosophy to try and ensure we win.

      Not remind everyone at every available opportunity 'he hasn't got the players to play his system'.

      That doesn't make me think F**k Rodgers is a born winner, don't know about you?
      Scotia
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #22: Jan 15, 2013 09:05:29 pm

      If Rodgers can have the side playing with the menatlity he did during the second half at Greyskull on Sunday then we won't go far wrong with one or two more additions to the squad.


      Bang on that for me mate - and don't see what's wrong with us asking why it took 57 mins for us to really get at them lot.

      I just feel from top down we're constantly being drip-fed justification, excuse or distraction. It's starting to feel like ambition or expectation of what this club exists for is being dumbed down - not to "delusions of grandeur" but "delusions of adequacy"
      Brian78
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #23: Jan 15, 2013 09:06:00 pm
      I don't believe it is being honest Brian.

      The way I see it is quite simple.

      If Rodgers had a winning mentality, he'd adapt his tactics/system/philosophy to try and ensure we win.

      Not remind everyone at every available opportunity 'he hasn't got the players to play his system'.

      That doesn't make me think f**k Rodgers is a born winner, don't know about you?

      And do we have the players? Do we balls, so yes its being honest. To suggest he hasnt got the mentality to win based on that is short ssighted.

      Im not 1 to thrawl through old reports and interviews but Im pretty sure Kenny never said were a top squad and we will compete for the league this season. Rafa moaned about his squad did he not? Has he not got the right mentality?

      The current champions of England claim to need more players in to be challenging. If Man city need players in we certainly do.

      Finally if a pro footballer lets his head tell him hes not good enough based on hearing it from someone elses mouth then they quite simply should not be at Liverpool and possibily not a pro footballer at all. They should be thinking "fook you pal Ill prove you wrong"
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #24: Jan 15, 2013 09:18:19 pm
      Little bit of togetherness outside of work wouldn't go a miss.

      Back to 1965 :)


      Brian78
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #25: Jan 15, 2013 09:19:43 pm
      Little bit of togetherness outside of work wouldn't go a miss.

      Back to 1965 :)




      Tell ye what mate not sure if your joking but things like that now and again are exactly whats needed
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #26: Jan 15, 2013 09:24:36 pm
      I'd say we have the players, maybe not to play Rodgers system, but there are systems that would get more from our current crop of players.

      Rodgers chooses to moan about it than do something about it.

      Take United Saturday, a subtle switch to a 4-2-3-1 seen a %100 improvement in us.

      I'm not saying he needs to tell us we'll be top of the league quite the contrary.

      What I'm saying is tell people they aren't good enough and eventually they'll believe it and that will reflect on performances.

      Its a bit like a beaten wife, tell her she's ugly and worthless and that's how she'll feel, that's why many have such a hard time escaping abusive relationships.


      Brian78
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #27: Jan 15, 2013 09:29:51 pm
      I'd say we have the players, maybe not to play Rodgers system, but there are systems that would get more from our current crop of players.

      Rodgers chooses to moan about it than do something about it.

      Take United Saturday, a subtle switch to a 4-2-3-1 seen a %100 improvement in us.

      I'm not saying he needs to tell us we'll be top of the league quite the contrary.

      What I'm saying is tell people they aren't good enough and eventually they'll believe it and that will reflect on performances.

      Its a bit like a beaten wife, tell her she's ugly and worthless and that's how she'll feel, that's why many have such a hard time escaping abusive relationships.




      The ironic thing about having a go at Rodgers hinting some players arent good enough is that a quick thrawl through here in match threads and player threads is that it seems a lot of fans agree with him.

      Ok a kid like Sterling or Suso might be effected by it but the majority of the first team squad are internationals and should only be looking to prove him wrong. If they shrivel up and believe they arent good enough they should not be at Anfield because simply they aent good enough mentally!

      You must have played a bit blood. When your left out or dont get a game whats your first reaction?
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #28: Jan 15, 2013 09:34:46 pm
      Tell ye what mate not sure if your joking but things like that now and again are exactly whats needed

      Was meant to be light hearted but that picture tells a story. All together outside of work and looking happy.

      My Mum was in a restaurant before Christmas and Enrique and Shelvey were in there and didn't even engage. Enrique with his mates, Shelvey with his. Wouldn't read into that much as times have changed but yeah, wonder if there is much group bonding going on outside of training, travelling and match day, etc?

      Sorry to go off the mentality thing but it does sort of link.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #29: Jan 15, 2013 09:45:34 pm
      The ironic thing about having a go at Rodgers hinting some players arent good enough is that a quick thrawl through here in match threads and player threads is that it seems a lot of fans agree with him.

      Were fans on a forum mate, not their manager.

      Would you be inclined to go to worl every day and bust your balls if your gaffer was telling any one who would listen that you're not good enough for his team ?


      a kid like Sterling or Suso might be effected by it but the majority of the first team squad are internationals and should only be looking to prove him wrong. If they shrivel up and believe they arent good enough they should not be at Anfield because simply they aent good enough mentally!

      If only it was that simple Brian, different people respond differently to different methods, some players need encouraging, some players don't, some players need an arm around the shoulder, some don't, some players don't need anything, some do. Personalities are complex, that's what makes us human.

      You must have played a bit blood. When your left out or dont get a game whats your first reaction?

      Can't really answer that honestly mate as I never really got dropped, only time I was ever used as a sub or was subbed off was if I'd had an injury.

      But I guess I'd respond by playing as I always did and that was give every ounce of energy and every bit of fight I had in me, for the good of the team.
      Dannylfc
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #30: Jan 15, 2013 10:15:19 pm
      Can see both sides of the argument to be honest.

      For one, I don't imagine Rodgers in training is screaming at the lads telling them they're not good enough, they cant play his system & they should all F**k off unless they adapt. The manner in which we've seen Suarez, Henderson, Downing & Enrique improve this season actually leads to me to believe he's quite a decent man-manager on the contrary.

      I think what hes doing in the media is pretty clever. On one hand, yeah, you could say it might affect a players mentality if hes hearing how the manager wants to bring in new players. On the other hand, isn't that what we've been screaming for on here for the past 18 months? Its what Gerrard has been asking for in the media this week. Its undoubtedly what Suarez wants to see if hes going to consider staying here. Who's to say its not a veiled statement towards FSG? That we do need players the manager wants if we are to succeed?
      RedWilly
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #31: Jan 15, 2013 11:31:58 pm
      You must have played a bit blood. When your left out or dont get a game whats your first reaction?
      To be honest, I had that for a season, where I got dropped without explanation, at first you knuckle down and show what you can do in training and in the game time you do get....but after a while, you know you're getting hooked at the 65th minute/not gonna start, then it does get to you and you just can't be arsed because you know no matter what, the manager doesn't seem to fancy you.

      But then I haven't got the best in sports psychology working with me :D
      MIRO
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #32: Jan 15, 2013 11:33:44 pm
      Indeed we do & I love their winning mentality.

       ;D
      SM
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #33: Jan 21, 2013 01:04:47 pm
      Very good question Mick and Im surprised it hasnt been discussed more.

      I totally agree and I have posted before about the same thing. We dominated against Spurs but only after going 2 down, same against United the other week. We have proved we are good enough to compete with these teams but our attitude seems to be one of "lets wait and see if we can pinch the result rather than go and get it".

      Are we scared of these sides? I dont know but look at the difference against Norwich - we set out to go at them and play our game with the attitude of "we are better than you and we will show it"....we need that attitude in every game we play.

      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #34: Mar 30, 2013 07:05:02 am
      By Ian Herbert in The Independant the other day:

      Dr Steve Peters: the psychiatrist charged with ridding Anfield of the fear factor
      Dr Steve Peters is the man who transformed Sir Chris Hoy and Victoria Pendleton's careers. For his next trick, he tells Ian Herbert why he hopes the same philosophy will work at Liverpool

      It's about five years since Jamie Carragher's inestimably good autobiography provided some home truths about Liverpool's obsessive quest for a Premier League title. "A championship trophy might not happen for me now," said a player who was only 30 at the time. "It's not impossible and there's no way I'm ever going to accept defeat but without wishing to sound negative, I have no choice but to prepare myself for that possibility…" The obstacle not so much being his own team but everyone else. As Carragher went on to say, Liverpool lost only four league games during the 2007-08 season but still didn't lift the Premier League trophy.
       

      Dr Steve Peters is extremely averse to any implication he knows all about the Premier League environment of the Liverpool squad with whom he works for one day a week – "it's their world, not mine," he repeatedly says – but he has been able to tell the 10 players who have so far knocked on his door at Melwood that Carragher had it spot on.

      Peters' point, fundamental to much of his work in sport which has left Victoria Pendleton and Sir Chris Hoy declaring they would never have won Olympic golds without him, is that titles can only ever be dreams: inspiring, motivating reasons to get up in the morning, which are subject to the vagaries of outside forces and, therefore, something you can never plan for, or expect.

      "If you start going into the realm of the uncontrollable with a pre-defined goal then you are going to start to stress," Peters says, in his first interview about his Liverpool role, which he is juggling with work for UK Athletics, among others. "So I would be guiding Liverpool to say, 'By all means let's commit to the dream and make it happen. But let's not make it a goal and put pressure on ourselves to live up to something that is actually not in our control.'

      "That, to me, is very critical in life. The goals become: 'Let's do the best we can, be prepared as individuals, be prepared as a team, make sure we get everything right.' These are the goals because you can control these. At the end of the day you can't do better than your best." Tell me about it, Roberto Mancini would probably reply. Amid all the talk of Manchester City's flaky title defence, Manchester United's record 74-point haul from 29 games is a widely disregarded factor.

      It won't be easy for Peters – applying a cool common sense to the often heated, sometimes burlesque, world of top-flight football, which is played out with high emotion while the on-looking world gasps and gawps at the latest outburst, misdemeanour, triumph or disaster. But Peters, a "massive find" according to British Cycling's performance director, Dave Brailsford, who ascribes a huge amount of British riders' success to his influence, applies the scientist's rationale.

      The psychiatrist, who has worked at Rampton high security hospital and helped in the search for the Soham killer, Ian Huntley, applies an extended primate analogy – expounding in his best-selling mind-management manual The Chimp Paradox how the brain comprises a rational "human" part and an emotional, rash "chimp" component (with a third part, "the computer", storing information and experiences.)

      The key to happiness and success is managing the inner chimp – the carrier of fear, emotion and irrational thought; the part of you which will always want to jump to an immediate opinion, see things in black and white, think the worst and put you through hell. Managing the chimp allows you to make the logical decisions on the field of play, rather than be bullied by emotion.

      The analogy is purposefully amusing but has a serious scientific base. By using an MRI scanner you can actually see blood flowing into different parts of the brain when you are making rational or emotional decisions. Those Peters has worked with – Craig Bellamy, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Taekwondo athlete Sarah Stevenson and the England rugby team that reached the World Cup final in 2007 – will tell you they are training the brain, a functioning machine, to manage emotion. Every brain is different but the process typically involves a relentless application to the same pre-match preparations.

      Peters tells a story of how, at cycling's last World Championships, he saw Hoy looking at the giant screen over the track to see a rival break a world record. This wasn't a part of the routine and Peters wasn't delighted by what he saw, knowing it would provoke an anxiety.

      Hoy, equipped to fend off the chimp, simply went out and secured his own world record. The chimp is more manageable for some (Hoy) than for others (Pendleton), whose chimp was always highly charged and seeking to hijack her.

      That time-honoured, visceral football practice of getting teams "up for it" is about as useful as setting the title as a goal, incidentally. "There's no evidence that approach actually works," Peters says. "People keep saying this, and anecdotally they talk about it getting the team 'up', but if you actually look at what happens, when the team are in this state or an individual is, their judgement is impaired. They make errors and they then try to correct that by emotional attacks which result in further errors."

      Those attacks can be hugely debilitating in the unforgiving space that football occupies. Peters does not discuss or identify the Liverpool players who have been "trickling in one at a time" to work with him and only Joe Allen has talked about the benefits so far. But on a human level you did wonder how Stewart Downing felt when he found himself on the receiving end of a bruising press conference inquisition into how he deserved to be in Roy Hodgson's England squad last June, even before he'd kicked a ball in the European Championship.

      The Independent's James Scowcroft recalls how, when beginning his career at Ipswich Town in 1994, he was so besieged by criticism from fans unhappy that another popular forward had been sold that his then captain Geraint Williams decided the side would kick towards the heaving North End stand in the first half, keeping Scowcroft 90 yards away from the opprobrium which was at its worst in the second period. "When you're on receiving end of that kind of thing the anxiety consumes you," Scowcroft says. "You wake up thinking about it. It drains your energy."

      This landscape of fear is one Peters has been operating in for 12 years, full-time since 2005. Mancini may care to know that The Chimp Paradox deals extensively with the anxiety and fear which can follow success – for those who feel they have to repeat it even before they have enjoyed it. And though Peters' perspective is that footballers, like the corporate managers who occupy a bruising world, know what they are getting into – "If you want to go into elite football you accept it's part of our job, so there's not much point in complaining after you get in, saying, 'I get scrutinised'" – he considers the negativity punishing and deeply counter-productive.

      "It's generic across every walk of life. There's this hostility and it causes people such untold stress you wonder why we don't say: 'You know, we're only on the planet for a short time, can't we be more constructive?' Sometimes that criticism is not constructive at all, but just a destructive attack on people. I'm not sure that does any good."

      Brailsford said when he met Mancini last year to discuss what football could learn from the Olympians that he was interested in how the Italian managed "big characters, lots of money, potentially challenging players…" But, after four months in football, Peters says he sees the same universal quest for contentment through achievement – multimillionaires though these people might be.

      "We have to accept the factor that these are wealthy guys who do not have to prove anything because they are going to get paid anyway," he says. "But I can see that's not what's driving them. What's driving them is their zest for the club and success with that club. They're very, very loyal."

      The challenge of operating with a team carries complexities that working with Hoy or Pendleton simply did not.

      "[Cycling] is much easier in that sense if you've got one committed individual with one committed event," Peters says. "If I go to a team with, say, 10 people and only five work with me then I am absolutely limited in what I can do with that team."

      And even if the other members of Rodgers' 23-strong first team squad choose to work with him, there is then the difficulty of agreeing how to pursue success. "At the most extreme, you have potentially 10 opinions on how the game should be approached and a coach who's trying to pull all those opinions together. So the power base has, quite correctly, shifted to the coach."

      You can see why Peters gets on so well with Rodgers, whose deep interest in what makes his players tick and what they do when they leave the training ground is something which all those he left behind at Swansea City eulogise about.

      "He is taking it step by step and we can both see it as a long-term process," Peters says. The problem is football's impatience for success – the "chimp" in the game, you might say. Rodgers would probably like to make fifth place his goal, with Aston Villa to play at Anfield tomorrow, but he really dare not. As Carragher put it so presciently: "The trouble we face is the teams in our way."

      http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/dr-steve-peters-the-psychiatrist-charged-with-ridding-anfield-of-the-fear-factor-8554166.html
      Benito
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #35: Mar 30, 2013 12:28:33 pm
      Thanks for the quote, after deep-diving I've just ordered the book off Amazon :) - looks decent enough and a good theory;

      don't set yourself goals that may be unachievable due to external factors, just set out to do the best that you can do.

      For any of this to work though will need full engagement from the squad due to their dependancies on each other, but not clear whether thats currently the case.
      GERNS
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      Re: The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.
      Reply #36: Mar 30, 2013 03:15:26 pm
      We were once a very insular club. Manickly deffensive of anyone discovering our secret of success. Evey one pulled together. No club matters were ever discussed with the media. Transferrs were silent deals until the players signed. Nobody was allowed into our world unless they were a devotee. Players looked out for each other on and off the field with ferocity. There was never publicised criticism from within, and everyone feared the mighty red unstopable runaway train.
       Now we air our greiviences in public, Players have spats on the park. Transferr targets are published before an approach is official. Players winging about lack of apearances.
      Unfortunatly we are now like 99% of other clubs in that respect.
                                                       We deffo need to get back to the LIVERPOOL WAY.

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