The mentality of a top team, how we need to change.

 I got to thinking this morning about our away matches principally, at top teams. In many ways, our performances have been remarkably similar and the games themselves have panned out in the same way. Given we've got away matches at Man City and Arsenal coming up very shortly, it might be time to look at our approach if we want to become a top team ourselves again.

 So the games I'm on about are Man U away, Chelsea away and Tottenham away. Now to my mind, in all three we went into the matches with an inferiority complex and never did ourselves any kind of justice for the first hour. We confused keeping posession with controlling the game, and whats more our determination to do the former at all costs allowed the home teams to press us high and put us under pressure. In all three matches the approach was singularly unsuccessful, and we were left in a situation where we had to chase the game. Here's the rub though, in all three matches once we had to chase the game we looked like a much better side.

 In the Chelsea match we only had to come back from one down thanks to some dodgy finishing from them. Most Chelsea fans I've talked to since reckon they were well and truly hanging onto a point at the end. At Spurs and Man U we got battered, but once we had a bit of a go towards the last third of the match we looked much the better team on view.

 So my point is this. Lets go to the Emirtes and the Etihaad and lets have a go. Lets play Suarez AND Sturridge AND Borini, and lets see if teams are quite so willing then to press us so high up. Lets go into both games and genuinely try and win them, not just paying lip service to "lets win if we can". See, that's what big teams do. The Mancs of both colours go Away and try to win. Yes they'll defend, and defend properly when they have to, but when they've got the ball they'll flood forward in numbers.  I've long thought that as a bunch of players and as a bunch of fans we're far more comfortable when we go for it than we are if we "hold what we have" and all that nonsense. Rafa's best season was when he "took off the shackles" and I think Brendan is going to have to realise it too.

 If I was playing against us, I'd want us to try and sit in and defend. Why? Cos we ain't that good at it. Lets do what teams don't want us to do, front foot from now on please.   

Best form of defence ATTACK,totally agree ,now with the options of Sturridge and Borroni back from injury let's have a pop .

Its not just Liverpool, its football as a whole.

Watched match of the day Saturday night, Villa Southampton. Villa were a joke for much of it. Last 10 minutes they are like Brazil. Waht do we go and do Sunday? Same, shambles in everything we do until we go 2 down. Tehn we go for it with 2 extra attackers and pin utd back and should have got something from the game.

Now why approach with the mentallity of caution but then go attacking when 2 down. Why not start attacking go 2 up and then sit back defend and try and catch on the break, no matter what ground your playing at.

Go have a go thats the only mentallity needed

Mentality.
Its all down to habit.

When Big Ron Yeats took to the field with the lads we were already 1-0 up in the mind of the opposition.
Utd will always have an inferiority complex with us because we won those Cups the hard way and they know it.
Two decades of us sleeping and they are still only 1 title in front.

Kenny needs to come back in some and come back soon to provide a Spine to this club.
Stevie and Carra need to be locked in to carry the DNA forward.
Robbie Rushie and Others need to be retained by the club to keep our tradition in the mind of our players.

Brendan patting Ferguson on the back made me want to put my fingers down my throat.
Kenny telling Wenger to piss off ............. thats us.

Half of this team are sh*te.
Complete sh*te. 
We are just wimping around here. We are not a Premier League winning side and any delusions of grandeur are a joke.

Mourinho drilled his players to go out on to the field like gladiators.
Mind conditioning.

Here we are sat on the forum F***ing about with topics  that defy belief!
We doubt that our team can win a match when we do a pre match poll.

The club and players need a kick up the arse and a reminder who they are playing for.
Its no good touching the This Is Anfield sign. Does that mean anything to the opposition anymore?

We have an amazing and proud legacy we can build on. The envy of clubs around the world.

Its time to bring back the Boot Room and all of its principles.

THE LIVERPOOL WAY.

Good post Mick but I think the mentality has to change from those above the players, management and owners, first as their negativity filters down to the players.

Being told we can't compete gives the players the excuse not to. Players such as Suarez won't be affected by this by their own winning character but we have many players who will be.

To have the mentality of a top team we need a manager that has the mentality of a top manager, in Rodgers we don't have that right now, so anything else is pissing in the wind unfortunately.

Mentality.
Its all down to habit.

When Big Ron Yeats took to the field with the lads we were already 1-0 up in the mind of the opposition.
Utd will always have an inferiority complex with us because we won those Cups the hard way and they know it.
Two decades of us sleeping and they are still only 1 title in front.

Kenny needs to come back in some and come back soon to provide a Spine to this club.
Stevie and Carra need to be locked in to carry the DNA forward.
Robbie Rushie and Others need to be retained by the club to keep our tradition in the mind of our players.

Brendan patting Ferguson on the back made me want to put my fingers down my throat.
Kenny telling Wenger to piss off ............. thats us.

Half of this team are sh*te.
Complete sh*te. 
We are just wimping around here. We are not a Premier League winning side and any delusions of grandeur are a joke.

Mourinho drilled his players to go out on to the field like gladiators.
Mind conditioning.

Here we are sat on the forum f**king about with topics  that defy belief!
We doubt that our team can win a match when we do a pre match poll.

The club and players need a kick up the arse and a reminder who they are playing for.
Its no good touching the This Is Anfield sign. Does that mean anything to the opposition anymore?

We have an amazing and proud legacy we can build on. The envy of clubs around the world.

Its time to bring back the Boot Room and all of its principles.

THE LIVERPOOL WAY.

Well said Skip well said, like the true Liverpool supporter you are,good man i am proud of you,well worth a plus.

Brendan patting Ferguson on the back made me want to put my fingers down my throat.
Kenny telling Wenger to piss off ............. thats us.

Mentioned this in the match thread too mate, felt exactly the same. As for Kenny telling Arsene to piss off, loved it and as you rightly say, that's us and why if the media handling was one of the reasons he's not here then just further proves how FSG don't get us unfortunately.

To have the mentality of a top team we need a manager that has the mentality of a top manager, in Rodgers we don't have that right now, so anything else is pissing in the wind unfortunately.

 Well I'll say in that case what everyone seems to be afraid of saying. All this "I support the manager but...." bullsh!t is getting on my nerves. If people don't support the manager (and if this forum is anything to go by they don't) then we should change the manager. No manager ever gets success at a club where the fans aren't behind him. No club ever wins things while everyone isn't united in a common cause.


 So if people get their wish (and I know we'll get the "who said they want him out?" sh!te) who do they want instead? Whoever it is, I'll back them 100% because I want the team to win things, not because I'm laying claim to be any kjind of superfan. Unless the fan base unite behind a manager, any manager, we're f*cked. And don't either give me any sh!t about "but you didn't unite behind Rafa", because I did for four f*cking seasons not for four months. Get in whoever you like, but whoever it is give the bloke a chance for more than half a season for f*cks sake. Let me know when you've all decided who is going to gate crash us into the the top four next season with FSG holding the purse strings. Like I say, I'll get 100% behind him even if it's the messiah himself.

Never said I wanted a change of manager Mick.

Does Rodgers have the mentality of a top manager ?

No he doesn't.

So until he develops that mentality the team won't develop it as they take to the field under his instructions.

Its not rocket science.

You starting this thread asking for a change of mentality shows subconsciously you are not happy with how Rodgers is sending us on out on the pitch.

I've gave Rodgers a chance and I'm still giving him a chance, he's had a chance all season long to identify the problems within our tactics and iron them out, yet they are still evident and a frequent occurence.

I'll continue to give Rodgers a chance to do that until the end of the season, but that doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth zipped and say nothing about where he's lacking so far.

If Brendan has a winning mentality he keeps it very well hidden.

Not me wanting him out Mick, just an observation.

Well it starts from the top & works it way down.

Owners, manager to supporters.

Just so people like me who are missing this "he hasnt got a winning mentality" thing can you please point out a few things he's done or has not done to hammer home this view?

If Brendan has a winning mentality he keeps it very well hidden.

Not me wanting him out Mick, just an observation.

Exactly mate, if you keep telling the lads they are not quite good enough and eventually they'll start to believe it.

Tell the lads they can achieve anything through team work, hard work and effort because they are a good group of footballers and eventually they'll start to believe it.

I'm sure the majority of players in our squad don't want to hear 'I haven't yet got the players to play my system' or 'we'll develop our aggression when I get my players in' etc

That's about as demotivational as you can get IMO.

Puts doubts into players heads about if they are rated by the manager and if they are going to be the first out of the door when he gets his players in.

To have a winning mentality on the pitch, the manager needs to develop one and filter it down to his current crop of players.

Just so people like me who are missing this "he hasnt got a winning mentality" thing can you please point out a few things he's done or has not done to hammer home this view?

Quite easy Brian.

All the massive job to get us back to where we belong polava.

That's defeatist, he's conceeded were not good enough.

When you conceed you are not good enough, results don't matter that much.

That's the impression I get with Rodgers.

Until he's 'assembled his squad' results are meaningless because 'these players are not good enough to play his system'.

A manager with a winning mentality would play to his current players strengths to help obtain the best results possible, not stick with a system he frequently reminds every one he needs 'his players' to make it work.

We've got a bunch of world class managers on the forum

We've got a bunch of world class managers on the forum

Indeed we do & I love their winning mentality.

Indeed we do & I love their winning mentality.

Touche

I haven't seen many posters on here say they want Rodgers out. Certainly none of the regulars anyway. Seems if you don't say the sun shines out of Rodgers' arse you want him out.

Be surprised if anybody is 100% happy as of now so what else is there to discuss? Not all going to be positive is it? People who are happy can go and sit in the 'Accepting Mediocrity' thread and they can F***ing stay there.

If Rodgers can have the side playing with the menatlity he did during the second half at Greyskull on Sunday then we won't go far wrong with one or two more additions to the squad.

I would love a change in mentality, and thought that BR finally understood as the games during and just after he was ill were played with greater intent and pace and directness, but it seems it was a false dawn.

Any team is a reflection of the manager, and if everyone agrees that the mentality has been poor we need to look no further than Brendan.

I, like most I suspect, never wanted Brendan as manager, but when I get to matches I don't sit there bitching, booing or groaning at what he does, I go there to support, but in the pub or here I will bloody well voice my concerns and not blindly accept what Brendan does or says, JUST like everyone else has done about our other managers at some time, so I don't know why BR should be immune.

If Brendan changes his, and therefore the teams, mentality and plays to our strengths we will see better results and performances.

Quite easy Brian.

All the massive job to get us back to where we belong polava.

That's defeatist, he's conceeded were not good enough.

When you conceed you are not good enough, results don't matter that much.

That's the impression I get with Rodgers.

Until he's 'assembled his squad' results are meaningless because 'these players are not good enough to play his system'.

A manager with a winning mentality would play to his current players strengths to help obtain the best results possible, not stick with a system he frequently reminds every one he needs 'his players' to make it work.

On the contrary its honest. Lets not kid ourselves we have been no better then 7th the last few years. Any manager who came in and told us he'd have us back to the top would be lying and leaving himself out to hang. And our fanbase woukl not be happy with a man promising titles only to languish in mid table again come January.

If we were top now he'd be applauded for taking pressue off the players at the start of the season with his comments.

In modern times I know only of Mourinho who came in gave instant success to his club. He had huge financial backing there and a decent squad already in place. Ferguson took years, Mancini even with his financial backing that matches that of Chelsea didnt have instant success. So I think for us to expect Rodgers or any man to come in and have us top is more then unfair.

To question his mentality as a manager after 6 months is even more unfair. Id praise him for having a plan and sticking with it until it comes good. I admire him for giving youth a chance. More then a few have palyed at some point this season. A season or 2 from now theyll have gained good experience and be well adjusted to Rodgers tactic/style. Maybe then we can really question the boss and his mentality.

Finally, on Sunday he made errors in his tactics in the first half but at least tried early in the 2nd half to change it with 2 strikers coming on. Im not convinced Kenny or Rafa wouldhave done that. Maybe if we let him learn from his mistakes he will prove to be more then capable mentally tactically every way to be a winner

I don't believe it is being honest Brian.

The way I see it is quite simple.

If Rodgers had a winning mentality, he'd adapt his tactics/system/philosophy to try and ensure we win.

Not remind everyone at every available opportunity 'he hasn't got the players to play his system'.

That doesn't make me think F**k Rodgers is a born winner, don't know about you?

If Rodgers can have the side playing with the menatlity he did during the second half at Greyskull on Sunday then we won't go far wrong with one or two more additions to the squad.

Bang on that for me mate - and don't see what's wrong with us asking why it took 57 mins for us to really get at them lot.

I just feel from top down we're constantly being drip-fed justification, excuse or distraction. It's starting to feel like ambition or expectation of what this club exists for is being dumbed down - not to "delusions of grandeur" but "delusions of adequacy"