The faith of the local fans...

Before I put this out there, let me just clarify my position. I'm after some alternative views before piecing something together on this topic, and I'll credit any useful input I get.

I'm not one of the Rodgers Out brigade, nor am I desperate to quell all criticism of the man. I'm firmly on the fence over him as manager of our club and have been, admittedly quite quietly, for a few months now.

I also need to clarify that this is far from an OOT (Out Of Towners) argument. I think there are boss fans and dickheads alike all over the place - whether they're from the city or not.

With that out the way, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the importance of the local fans' opinion on the manager of our club. I've been hearing/reading for the last week or so a few people who are of the opinion that Brendan Rodgers has "lost the support of the local fans" and that it is of huge importance.

This is something I've heard before, obviously during H*dgson's brief spell at the club, and referenced to earlier days than my age permits me to recall (Souness as an example). It's definitely something I've acknowledged as being important, but for some reason I've never give it much thought before.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think it's bullshit or do you also think it's of importance. If so, how?

I'm an OOT as I'm from Ireland but I'd argue no less a passionate red as some from the city but I always have put a degree of importance on the thoughts, views and opinions of a local fan as I still believe that any club has to have a core of local support otherwise what is the point.

So I guess my answer is that it is very much important to me and the club as to the feelings of the majority of the local support.

Understand what your saying heard it a few times myself, some have lost patience, others seem to be holding their tongue with a wait and see policy.

Part of me thinks he's slightly out of his depth, but at the same time we've been through that much upheaval that simply changing the manager again just wouldn't help. Part of me also thinks he needs to be given more time to see what he can do with his group! I did say when Kenny was given the chop that he should of been given an extra season to let his team gel etc, so the same should apply to Brendan.

In Todays footballl I don't think the local fans have much say in the managers fate unless of course they are chanting for the manager head in the stands and making his position untenable.

Even then some strong willed owners Abramovich sacking a crowd favourite and employing a hated rival coach and  then John henry & Co sacking a massive Icon and replacing  him with a young inexperienced top level manager shows that the owners will make the decisions that they feels best preserves their investment not what pleases the fans, local or OOT.

Faith of local fans is of utmost importance as they have the ability to withhold their hard earned money if they so choose and that's about the only way you can affect the will of the ownership these days. Most every owner responds to less money in his/her pocket.

Us OOT'ers don't have that kind of influence. I don't necessarily think the locals' opinions are any more valuable or important than that of fans around the world, but they definitely have their finger on the pulse as they are right there in the middle of things.

I don't subscribe to the importance of a local fan over an "Out of towner". Every fan of our beloved football club, regardless of where they live, is as important as the next. Not every local goes to watch the lads on match day and not every OOTer is an armchair fan. The idea is an outdated one in today's modern football. I also don't think it has anything to do with local fans or fans from elsewhere in the country or world, it comes down to the mentality of the fan in question. This breaks down in to three Camps.

Camp one is those who will never accept Brendan Rodgers simply because he is not Kenny Dalglish. He can do no right and is to blame for all wrongs.
Camp two is those fans who have been spouting the same old silly line for years - in xxx we trust. For them, Brendan cannot be criticised because to do so is to not be behind the team. 
Camp three are the those fans who take a pragmatic and balanced view of the situation. Criticise where criticism is due, praise where praise is deserved.

In my opinion you don't have to be a local fan or OOTer to fall in to one of these camps.

Local fans?
What is this?
The beginning of divide and conquer.

Fact is the faith of every red fan is being tested right now.
I think FSG rolled the dice. It failed, mainly because we bought poorly.
4 years out of the champions league. Barely keeping in touch.
If we can't outspend those above us we can't catch them.

We'll remain in a cycle, much like Arsenal and Spurs, of losing our best players.
The difference being they brought in the right replacements.
Cazorla

Dempsey
Dembele
Sigurdsson
Holtby

We see others moving on as we continue to stumble and wallow in rhetoric.
Frustration is understandable. Once again though, the fans focus is off.
H&G + FSG = Fallen Empire

Its strange because I've always felt that locals have more right to support Liverpool than myself, even though I've followed the Reds since around 86, but being on this forum has taught me that OOTs can be equally fervent when it comes to supporting Liverpool, Rafa, ect
The Locals are the ones who put bums on seats, and for that reason they are more important to the club's financial well-being, not sure if they love the Club anymore than myself or other OOTs though.

While local support is very important in the way it is mostly locals who pays their hard earned  money to fill Anfield week in and week out.I do however feel in this day and age O,O,Ts can have a big influence on club owners and management due to the power of the internet.I believe that supporters worldwide had a big influence on getting rid of Hicks and Gillette via emails etc.

Its strange because I've always felt that locals have more right to support Liverpool than myself, even though I've followed the Reds since around 86, but being on this forum has taught me that OOTs can be equally fervent when it comes to supporting Liverpool, Rafa, ect
The Locals are the ones who put bums on seats, and for that reason they are more important to the club's financial well-being, not sure if they love the Club anymore than myself or other OOTs though.

They don't, they just have the club on their doorstep more than everyone else. There's plenty of fans at our games that are not local. I've been one of them enough times. There hasn't been a local in charge of the senior team since 1998, most of the players are foreign and the club is owned by foreigners, and likely to be for some time yet.

But it doesn't matter what we think. There will only be change here if/when we don't make the CL, that's the only prize owners recognise these days. As we know from last year, it's more important to them than winning silverware.

Supporters in the immediate area of the club will naturally feel they have more of an empathy with LFC than those that live further afield, to say nothing of the history of the club and the family connection that sees generations of Reds support the institution that is LFC.
 It would take a brave man to dismiss the depths of that support or indeed compare it with that of those living further away spoken of previously.

For one reason or the other there is some form of support snobbery at play here, emanating from the glib acronym that is 00T's, whether intentional or not a divide is created right there with suggestion that there is a tiered identifiable strata to the support base.

Essentially however we all want the very best for the club and paradoxically the effort and commitment of somebody getting to Anfield and taking five, six hours and even more to do so is quite some dedication, compared to the guy who lives on Rice Lane who could amble down there in 20 minutes.
Tiers of support are there whether you live in Rice Lane or County Galway as are the different opinions as to what is best for the club, the overriding factor is however we do all want the best for this club.

   

Thanks for your responses. There's some brilliant points in there. It's hard to gauge the 'on the spot' views outside the city without consulting the likes of Twitter and Facebook - and there's a certain degree of bias on those platforms given most tend to follow people who are of a similar opinion to them. Any sign of significant difference can often be followed with the unfollow/delete button.

This forum on the other hand...

One thing I will say is that the importance of the 'local support' may be something of the past. If the unanimous support of those fans in and around the club on a day to day basis held such a significance then Kenny Dalglish would arguably still be at the club. Our owners are hardly local, so such things are unlikely to register - Ian Ayre hardly has his finger on the pulse either. And their first appointment was made off the back of the desire of the majority of the fans - and it put them in an uncomfortable position when it come to dismissing him (whether you agree with the decision or not). I sincerely doubt they'd go with that kind of consensus again - local or otherwise.

FSG played the "fans opinions are important" card at the start of their Dictatorship ownership, and seemed to show a little lack of knowledge about the task at hand by allowing supporters to dictate who should be manager.
They also responded to questions from concerned supporters about their plans for the future.
Now it seems that they are just hiding away in America staying out of the firing line.

Personally I don't believe Rodgers has as much - lets call it 'enthusiastic' support amongst local fans as he does in the wider supporter base - although I don't think the difference is massive.

Whether this matters is worthy of debate.  Local fans do however still have the ability to shape opinion to a minor degree.  Many fans worldwide will read blogs and even local news stories such as the Echo online for their latest news.  Columnists on these papers are highly likely to reflect the opinions of people they speak to day in day out.

If there was a groundswell of opinion against a manager - many of these outlets would be honoured to reflect this in their editorial.

Whether you agree or not - don't forget that many people employed at the club, academy etc are local - and their attitudes surely would eventually seep into the club.

Interesting opening post anyway.

Its strange because I've always felt that locals have more right to support Liverpool than myself, even though I've followed the Reds since around 86, but being on this forum has taught me that OOTs can be equally fervent when it comes to supporting Liverpool, Rafa, ect
The Locals are the ones who put bums on seats, and for that reason they are more important to the club's financial well-being, not sure if they love the Club anymore than myself or other OOTs though.

Supporters in the immediate area of the club will naturally feel they have more of an empathy with LFC than those that live further afield, to say nothing of the history of the club and the family connection that sees generations of Reds support the institution that is LFC.
 It would take a brave man to dismiss the depths of that support or indeed compare it with that of those living further away spoken of previously.

For one reason or the other there is some form of support snobbery at play here, emanating from the glib acronym that is 00T's, whether intentional or not a divide is created right there with suggestion that there is a tiered identifiable strata to the support base.

Essentially however we all want the very best for the club and paradoxically the effort and commitment of somebody getting to Anfield and taking five, six hours and even more to do so is quite some dedication, compared to the guy who lives on Rice Lane who could amble down there in 20 minutes.
Tiers of support are there whether you live in Rice Lane or County Galway as are the different opinions as to what is best for the club, the overriding factor is however we do all want the best for this club.

   

An excellent OP by CRK and two excellent posts by Orchard Red and stuey, as per usual. This will make for an excellent debate and for me there is no question.

I'm from Wales myself, i love Liverpool Football Club with all my heart. I hurt when we lose, i'm hurting now as i see the identity of the Club being totally stripped away by commercialism and the like. I cried when Kenny was sacked, i couldn't post for weeks as i felt i was betraying Kenny by even typing Brendan's name. I identify with the family values of the Club, the working class people who built this Club, we are a unit. Or as Shankly put it, a holy trinity.

 As much as i love Liverpool Football Club, i wouldn't even begin to state i love the Club more than a true Scouser because that is impossible. Scousers are the heart and soul of LFC and always will be, it shouldn't be any other way. If i get to go to a game i consider myself privelidged. If i was to apply for a Season Ticket the same time as a Scouser then the Scouser would deserve that Ticket more than i would. It is their City, what happens at Liverpool Football Club affects the whole City, the community, the people.

Let's put it this way, i'm a proud Welshman and if i had to choose between being Welsh or Scouse i'd never give up my identity and pretend to be something i'm not. No matter how much i love Liverpool i love being Welsh more. It's in my blood.

If i hurt after a defeat, a true Scouser hurts more.

When i cried after Kenny's sacking, true Scousers cried more.

A true Scouser has more right than i will ever have to watch Liverpool play.

When i scream at a player to grow some bollocks, a true Scouser will scream harder.

Some people may not like what i have to say but it's the truth. It's their City. It's in their blood. They were born there.

We are what we are, there is no escaping that.

True Scousers are the lifeblood and soul of Liverpool Football Club and always will be. Without them it would be nothing.

The importance of the local support is crucial to the survival of our Club, just as bringing through local youngsters is. The day local support becomes unimportant will be the day Liverpool Football Club ceases to exist. Without the true Scousers there is no Liverpool Football Club.

Like stuey said, for true Scousers, supporting Liverpool Football Club is a religion, passed down through generations and is an honour, they are very lucky to be a part of that.

Just as lucky and honoured as i am to be Welsh.

F**k!. I forgot to say, my mate Tony goes to every home game and when i was working with him last night he said that a lot of the local hardcore support were not happy with Brendan. I'm not saying the local supporters opinions are more important than ours but nobody can argue that they feel the effect of what is happening more than we do.

Just my opinion.

An excellent OP by CRK and two excellent posts by Orchard Red and stuey, as per usual. This will make for an excellent debate and for me there is no question.

I'm from Wales myself, i love Liverpool Football Club with all my heart. I hurt when we lose, i'm hurting now as i see the identity of the Club being totally stripped away by commercialism and the like. I cried when Kenny was sacked, i couldn't post for weeks as i felt i was betraying Kenny by even typing Brendan's name. I identify with the family values of the Club, the working class people who built this Club, we are a unit. Or as Shankly put it, a holy trinity.

 As much as i love Liverpool Football Club, i wouldn't even begin to state i love the Club more than a true Scouser because that is impossible. Scousers are the heart and soul of LFC and always will be, it shouldn't be any other way. If i get to go to a game i consider myself privelidged. If i was to apply for a Season Ticket the same time as a Scouser then the Scouser would deserve that Ticket more than i would. It is their City, what happens at Liverpool Football Club affects the whole City, the community, the people.

Let's put it this way, i'm a proud Welshman and if i had to choose between being Welsh or Scouse i'd never give up my identity and pretend to be something i'm not. No matter how much i love Liverpool i love being Welsh more. It's in my blood.

If i hurt after a defeat, a true Scouser hurts more.

When i cried after Kenny's sacking, true Scousers cried more.

A true Scouser has more right than i will ever have to watch Liverpool play.

When i scream at a player to grow some bollocks, a true Scouser will scream harder.

Some people may not like what i have to say but it's the truth. It's their City. It's in their blood. They were born there.

We are what we are, there is no escaping that.

True Scousers are the lifeblood and soul of Liverpool Football Club and always will be. Without them it would be nothing.

The importance of the local support is crucial to the survival of our Club, just as bringing through local youngsters is. The day local support becomes unimportant will be the day Liverpool Football Club ceases to exist. Without the true Scousers there is no Liverpool Football Club.

Like stuey said, for true Scousers, supporting Liverpool Football Club is a religion, passed down through generations and is an honour, they are very lucky to be a part of that.

Just as lucky and honoured as i am to be Welsh.

F**k!. I forgot to say, my mate Tony goes to every home game and when i was working with him last night he said that a lot of the local hardcore support were not happy with Brendan. I'm not saying the local supporters opinions are more important than ours but nobody can argue that they feel the effect of what is happening more than we do.

Just my opinion.

This post i cant disagree with, Hardcore hits the nail on the head.

Local support is the heartbeat of the club as the great man said.

"Although I'm a Scot, I'd be proud to be called a Scouser"

Just as lucky and honoured as i am to be Welsh.

I'm not sure about that sheep boy. 

On a more serious note, +1 for your post. 

Personally I've had it from both sides as I lived in Liverpool till I was 24ish and then got my travelling boots on so I've met people in foreign climbs, around the UK and discussed football/rivalries/Managers with various supporters, I've had many a heated discussion with fans whose opinion of us is based on a quarter of a century old vileness and a lot still believe it. Through all these travels I've met a lot of 'OOT's' and have obviously met a lot of locals and in my humble opinion it's much like the spread we get on this forum, there are some I would rather have my balls crushed than listen to/read and there are some who I respect greatly.

I think being local gives you more news/gossip/closeness about/to the club and will therefore make you feel more attached but in my experience location/Scouseness does not necessarily make you a better supporter but it may by proximity make you more faithful.

As I say, this forum to me is a very good yard stick to gauge the Reds I've met and spoken to, a lot of OOT Reds on here are more Scouse than some Scouse Reds I've met. Fair play to the powers that be for maintaining the level of input that they do. Thjs forum is as Scouse as they come.

 

Local support is the heartbeat of the club as the great man said.
 

Agree Shabs.

I am secure enough in my own support of the club that I happily recognise the importance of the local support.

I'm not sure about that sheep boy.   

We F**k them and you eat them mate!  Ever wondered why your lamb is a bit on the salty side?. 

On a more serious note, +1 for your post. 

Personally I've had it from both sides as I lived in Liverpool till I was 24ish and then got my travelling boots on so I've met people in foreign climbs, around the UK and discussed football/rivalries/Managers with various supporters, I've had many a heated discussion with fans whose opinion of us is based on a quarter of a century old vileness and a lot still believe it. Through all these travels I've met a lot of 'OOT's' and have obviously met a lot of locals and in my humble opinion it's much like the spread we get on this forum, there are some I would rather have my balls crushed than listen to/read and there are some who I respect greatly.

I think being local gives you more news/gossip/closeness about/to the club and will therefore make you feel more attached but in my experience location/Scouseness does not necessarily make you a better supporter but it may by proximity make you more faithful.

As I say, this forum to me is a very good yard stick to gauge the Reds I've met and spoken to, a lot of OOT Reds on here are more Scouse than some Scouse Reds I've met. Fair play to the powers that be for maintaining the level of input that they do. Thjs forum is as Scouse as they come.

 

A top post mate but please note that my post placed emphasis on true Scousers. I appreciate there are bad eggs in all communities.

Agree Shabs.

I am secure enough in my own support of the club that I happily recognise the importance of the local support.

Apologies for picking your post out srslfc but it seems a really strange post you've made?. Maybe you have worded it wrongly but it seems you are saying that if you were not secure in your support then you wouldn't recognise the importance of local support?.

The importance of local support is vitally important, in fact it is a given when applied to supporting Liverpool Football Club, it shouldn't matter how secure you are in your support so i fail to see why you had to make that statement?.

Anyway, back on topic. I'm really surprised that this topic hasn't attracted more interest and posts yet. Given the amount of drivel and sh*te posted lately i'd have thought people would have jumped at the opportunity to post their opinions on such an important matter as this.

That is what I meant in a way Hardcore.

I think some supporters not from the city can get very defensive over their own level of support and react when their support is questioned by the locals.

I place a lot of importance on the local support and what I'm saying is that I am comfortable enough in my support for the club that I can say that I see the local support being even more important than my own.

All reds together no matter what

Ynwa

Am from sunny Belfast by the way

Isn't a out of towners £40 through the gate the same as a locals £40 through the game? If the ground is full with 43000 fans all paying £40 a ticket, whats the difference where they come from?

Also, if all out of town LFC fans that attend Anfield decided not to...   would the stadium be anywhere near full with only locals allowed in?

just a question, not stirring owt up