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      Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk > Borussia Dortmund)

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      Ribapuru
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #46: Jun 04, 2013 11:41:43 am
      he wasn't "boss" after 6 games, he just did pretty well and had a couple of very good games.  And---shock!---sometimes judgments change. 

      Here's the difference: Mkhitaryan has shown what he is capable of, in the CL, against some of the top clubs in the world.  So if he comes, and is a total failure, then we can hold our hands up and say "well, he had already shown what he could do, and why he was Liverpool quality."  But what on earth did Allen/Henderson/Downing/Borini etc ever do to merit us signing them?  nothing!  we signe6d them hoping they would turn into something we hadn't seen yet---whereas with Mkhitaryan, we have already seen what he can do, so we would be signing him to keep DOING what he is ALREADY doing.  See the difference?

      "yea, yea, but he's 29, has played for years and years so of course he is better..."

      Oh.  Wait.  He's 24.

      Could it possibly be---gasp!---that he is just a better player than some of our awful players, despite being basically the same age?

      Could it possibly be that Coutinho offers more than Downing/Henderson/Borini etc, despite being younger than all of them?  why?  because of some weird quantum physics abstraction that is only known to the Supreme Being?

      Or is it... possibly... because... he's a better f**king player than the sh*te we currently have "gracing" Anfield!!!

      Simple.  Sign.  Quality.  Players.  Players who have shown on their day that they can be top drawer players.  Coutinho showed that.  Suarez showed that.  Mkhitaryan showed that.  If we sign top quality players and then they crumble when they get here, we hold our hands up and say "well, we tried."  But stop signing mid-table dross and then being shocked when they show nothing more than mid-table talent.

      Hope Mkhitaryan signs and lights up the league next season.  If we force Suarez's hand and he stays, Mkhitaryan, Coutinho and Suarez in the attack is mouth-watering.

      I've been impressed with Henderson. He was to me, the most improved player of the season.  Not the best but the most improved.  Borini has been unlucky not to score more goals.  He barely played because of injury.  He looked a threat every time he plays and could be versatile like Kuyt. Downing and Allen disappointed me, but doesn't mean all our recent signings were bad.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #47: Jun 04, 2013 11:46:47 am
      So the margin between good price and overpaying can be as little as £4m?

      It adds up. He does sound like a good player,  but Sturridge and Coutinho were. 11 and 8m.. This guy is more expensive than those two together. 
      stuey
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #48: Jun 04, 2013 11:50:46 am
      22m is too much.  15-18m. Maybe.  Coutinho was 8m. We need to stop this spending culture.

      Coutinho is worth at least double that figure and rising.
      Is the spending culture you speak of selecting players who give a 100% return on the investment?
                                                 
                                                        Capiche?
      JD
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #49: Jun 04, 2013 12:23:28 pm
      If Youtube videos are supposed to show the very best of a player, then I can't say I've been tremendously impressed.
      Reprobate
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #50: Jun 04, 2013 12:28:05 pm
      I cannot for the life of me understand why posters allow each thread to become derailed by Federers occasionally amusing interjections.

      Ignore him. By that I mean add him to your ignore list, everybody should. We've seen his likes on here before, haven't we? Those social retards who are so devoid of attention in real life that they take to social media and forums where they feel they have a voice. If we, en mass put him on ignore, we too can starve him if attention and he'll crawl back under his rock.

      In short, DON'T FEED THE TROLL.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #51: Jun 04, 2013 12:48:50 pm
      One of my best mates and fellow LFC supporter, who I text during our matches, is Armenian and when I showed him the article posted on FB about us looking at this guy, said to me this fella is going to be something special, 22M is peanuts for this bloke as he's going to be double that value in a year or 2, was good enough for me to get excited about the prospect of us signing him.
      xSkyline
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #52: Jun 04, 2013 01:25:58 pm
      If Youtube videos are supposed to show the very best of a player, then I can't say I've been tremendously impressed.
      Maybe the sh*t YouTube players actually turn out good?

      @arturpetrosyan 4m
      Mkhitaryan is isolated in the national team, his agent's cell phones are switched off for some reason. So there are no news at the moment.

      Shakhtar are in for Wellington Nem, a direct replacement for Mkhitaryan.
      billythered
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #53: Jun 04, 2013 02:05:51 pm
      I am liking what i see, well balanced two footed quick attacking style, difficult to read and a defenfers f***in nightmare, if we had player like that to sell we would be demanding £25m, in today's market i don't think this to much, we're asking for £50m for Luis go figure,

      i hope we get this lad, he looks the biz, very exciting, go on Brendan, make it happen !

      edit; how the F**k do you pronounce his name,?  ;D


               IBWT   YNWA   JFT96                       
      racerx34
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #54: Jun 04, 2013 02:09:22 pm
      how the F**k do you pronounce his name,?

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 6h
      as for the pronunciation...it'll be easy for scousers... the 'kh' is quite gutteral sounding....best way to say it is 'Mc - it -harry - ann'
      xSkyline
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #55: Jun 04, 2013 02:10:59 pm
      I am liking what i see, well balanced two footed quick attacking style, difficult to read and a defenfers f***in nightmare, if we had player like that to sell we would be demanding £25m, in today's market i don't think this to much, we're asking for £50m for Luis go figure,

      i hope we get this lad, he looks the biz, very exciting, go on Brendan, make it happen !

      edit; how the f**k do you pronounce his name,?  ;D


               IBWT   YNWA   JFT96                       
      http://www.forvo.com/word/henrikh_mkhitaryan/ ;)

      Apparently, he asked for a wage rise from £20k to £30k a week at Shakhtar but they refused. Don't think he'd be on anything over £40k a week here which would be fantastic.

      Source: http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/155949/
      billythered
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #56: Jun 04, 2013 02:14:28 pm
      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 6h
      as for the pronunciation...it'll be easy for scousers... the 'kh' is quite gutteral sounding....best way to say it is 'Mc - it -harry - ann'

      Nice one Racer, cheers'n' beers,  YNWA
      brilad
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #57: Jun 04, 2013 02:19:21 pm
       :fl
      John Bradley would be the opinion I'd value most on twitter with regard to Henry/Henrik.

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 10h
      Having watched Henrikh Mkhitaryan grow as a person and a player at Shakhtar Donetsk, I will dance a jig if he signs for Liverpool #player

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 10h
      Right, here's the lowdown. Henrikh is a classic number 10 who makes Scholes like late runs into the penalty area and scores bundles of goals

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 10h
      When Jadson left Shakhtar they asked him to suggest replacement, he said noone Henrikh is already better than me, said he's world class

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 10h
      Henrikh is a player who plays well between the lines, his work rate and attitude are phenomenal. He'd be a great addition to any squad

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 9h
      I wouldn't worry about him adapting to England either, Henrikh is fluent in 5 or 6 languages including English. He's very intelligent !

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 1h
      @PJ_Boyle would remind me of when Gerrard played just off Torres the ohter year...am role

      John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 1h
      @benzillaw6 yes....I like him more than Erikksen


      loving all this please get the lad signed up.

      Not been this excited since we signed Bruno cherou. :f_tongueincheek:
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #58: Jun 04, 2013 02:38:05 pm
      So we're linked to a genuinely good player by a relatively quality source and this thread gets ruined in page 1. F**k off already. It's getting old.

      I think Mkhitaryan would be a boss signing if can land him. But he needs a nickname. "Mkhitaryan" is going to be too difficult to spell on a consistent basis :laugh:
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #59: Jun 04, 2013 02:45:08 pm
      Pointless signing; we've already got Joe Allen, and next year he'll be just as good if not better than this Armenian lad.

      I know this because Lucas came good, therefore every awful player automatically comes good since it happened with Lucas, also, if you can't support us when we lose, don't support us when we're becoming a mid-table club.

      Not even funny anymore :(

      Not been this excited since we signed Bruno cherou. :f_tongueincheek:

      :lmao:
      Scottbot
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #60: Jun 04, 2013 02:49:13 pm
      This one turned my head because it's in just about all the papers. On newsnow the Independent, Mirror, Guardian and a bunch of others were all running with it at the same time which is usually a sign of some real substance in a rumour.
      NelisLFC
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #61: Jun 04, 2013 03:41:36 pm
      I'm wondering why we would buy this guy instead of Eriksen, probably because he has a better scoring record right ? From what I've seen these goalkeepers aren't very good to be honest. Half of these shots would be stopped by goalkeepers in the Premier League. Eriksen is more the man of the brilliant passes to me, but i'm Dutch so i have seen more games from him. It's hard to believe we would going for Mkhitaryan and Eriksen.
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #62: Jun 04, 2013 04:02:51 pm
      he wasn't "boss" after 6 games, he just did pretty well and had a couple of very good games.  And---shock!---sometimes judgments change. 

      Here's the difference: Mkhitaryan has shown what he is capable of, in the CL, against some of the top clubs in the world.  So if he comes, and is a total failure, then we can hold our hands up and say "well, he had already shown what he could do, and why he was Liverpool quality."  But what on earth did Allen/Henderson/Downing/Borini etc ever do to merit us signing them?  nothing!  we signed them hoping they would turn into something we hadn't seen yet---whereas with Mkhitaryan, we have already seen what he can do, so we would be signing him to keep DOING what he is ALREADY doing.  See the difference?

      "yea, yea, but he's 29, has played for years and years so of course he is better..."

      Oh.  Wait.  He's 24.

      Could it possibly be---gasp!---that he is just a better player than some of our awful players, despite being basically the same age?

      Could it possibly be that Coutinho offers more than Downing/Henderson/Borini etc, despite being younger than all of them?  why?  because of some weird quantum physics abstraction that is only known to the Supreme Being?

      Or is it... possibly... because... he's a better f**king player than the sh*te we currently have "gracing" Anfield!!!

      Simple.  Sign.  Quality.  Players.  Players who have shown on their day that they can be top drawer players.  Coutinho showed that.  Suarez showed that.  Mkhitaryan showed that.  If we sign top quality players and then they crumble when they get here, we hold our hands up and say "well, we tried."  But stop signing mid-table dross and then being shocked when they show nothing more than mid-table talent.

      Hope Mkhitaryan signs and lights up the league next season.  If we force Suarez's hand and he stays, Mkhitaryan, Coutinho and Suarez in the attack is mouth-watering.

      Right so you CAN judge players after 6 games - except when you can't. Nice one - thanks for your brilliant footballing insight.

      As for performing against top level teams - that's exactly what Joe Allen has done in a newly promoted Swansea side and produced some of the best midfield performances in Europe - check the stats. Last I checked, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City were all CL level sides whereas Mikkitargaryen is performing in a third tier league (not that I doubt he is top quality). In fact you could argue that Joe Allen proved himself more than Coutinho did at this level before we signed him.

      Which leaves me to conclude that your approach of "signing quality players" is naive at best.

      Firstly I think you should adjust your statement to "sign players that I personally think are quality" which won't get us very far.

      Thats because it probably hasn't occurred to you that the teams above us (apart from Everton) are using that approach - the only difference being they can afford vastly bigger sums than us which means we aren't going to be catching them up anytime soon.

      The key to us winning the league is spending our money more smartly than our rivals. Or to put it in basic terms for you - to buy players who are currently undervalued rather that he flavour of the month that everyone is raving about and we can't afford anyway. Even if Mikkitango ends up winning us the league, the only way we will have been able to accommodate him is if we have saved money on two or three smart purchases elsewhere in the team.

      FL Red
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #63: Jun 04, 2013 04:23:29 pm
      Lets get this kid in, he and Coutinho would be horrifying for opposing defenses.
      federer
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #64: Jun 04, 2013 04:58:00 pm
      Thats because it probably hasn't occurred to you that the teams above us (apart from Everton) are using that approach - the only difference being they can afford vastly bigger sums than us which means we aren't going to be catching them up anytime soon.

      The key to us winning the league is spending our money more smartly than our rivals. Or to put it in basic terms for you - to buy players who are currently undervalued rather that he flavour of the month that everyone is raving about and we can't afford anyway. Even if Mikkitango ends up winning us the league, the only way we will have been able to accommodate him is if we have saved money on two or three smart purchases elsewhere in the team.


      Are you honestly, seriously suggesting that Allen was UNDER-valued at £15m, Borini UNDER-valued at £11m, Henderson UNDER-valued at £16m, Downing UNDER-valued at £20m?   do you call that "spending more smartly than our rivals"?

      If this were truly our policy, and we were absolutely skint, then it would at least be honest if we went around spending £2m or £3m on unknown players who could potentially be big stars.  We could say "that's all we can afford, sorry."  But it's not what we're doing.  We spent £25m on Allen and Borini alone last summer.  Is that "spending smartly"? 

      You say "apart from Everton;" they paid £5m last summer for Mirallas. 

      Be honest: you've got two options and you can only go with one, which do you pick? 

      A) Mirallas for £5m

      B) Allen and Borini for £25m?

      Which would have added more to our team this season? 

      Don't come with this bollocks of teams above us blowing us out of the water with their money.  We have spent close to £150m in the last three years alone.  The problem is 95% of that £150m was spent on garbage.  And NOT smartly.

      And you're telling me that in fact we paid UNDER what we should have for the awful players we have signed.  F***ing hell.


      ...buy players who are currently undervalued rather that he flavour of the month that everyone is raving about and we can't afford anyway. Even if Mikkitango ends up winning us the league, the only way we will have been able to accommodate him is if we have saved money on two or three smart purchases elsewhere in the team.

      "flavour of the month"?  "mikkitango"?  "Mikkitargaryen"? Are you on a wind-up mate?  You think Mkhitaryan is a "flavour of the month"?  Just because you haven't been watching him over the last few years doesn't means he's the "flavour of the month."  You probably would have said the same thing about Suarez.  And yea, it's definitely those "smart purchases" that we'd have to sacrifice.  Again, we spent £25m on two players last season who contributed the sum total of sweet F**k all.  Those were NOT smart purchases.  No matter what you think of them as players, there is not a single soul here who would sincerely justify the fees we paid for those players.  Not one. 

      A "smart" purchase is paying for players who we know have an extremely high likelihood of stepping in right away and contributing.  There was never, ever, even a single person who was certain that Allen or Borini would step in right away and be consistent contributors, even before they signed for us.  If that's the case, if we are going to be taking huge risks on players, then we should not be spending more than £4-5 on them.  Maximum.  The risk is too high, and we don't have the money to lose.  We shouldn't be paying £15m or upwards on any players other than those who have already shown what they can do at the highest level.  Mkhitaryan has absolutely dominated the Ukrainian league, a very physical, brutal league, and has run riot in the CL over some of the best sides in the world.  Will he be a guaranteed success?  nope.  But based on what he has done, there is a much higher likelihood that he will succeed than other players we have signed who had shown NOTHING before us signing them.

      It's never a "smart purchase" to buy awful players.  If they're not good enough to start for us in a pinch then they're not good enough, even for the "squad."  Go out and buy players with top skills who are willing to come to us.  Suarez came.  Coutinho came.  It can happen.  But don't bring up this bollocks about Mkhitaryan etc taking money away from other "smart" purchases.  We spent £60m on Downing, Henderson, Borini and Allen in the last few years.  Did you read that properly?  £60m.  None of those were "smart" purchases.  Imagine what we could have done with that money.  Look at this brilliant post from a few weeks ago:

      I get where you're coming from and have never understood the don't change argument when in my view an upgrade is an upgrade and you can be damn sure a better player will get more out of those around him than keeping hold of an average one for the sake of not changing. That "stability" argument has never really made sense and the "depth" argument even worse. No point having a squad full of sh*te, we had that under Hodgson, nobody was arguing we were operating from a position of strength then.

      He's bang on the money.  If the squad is full of 10-15 players, none of whom are good enough, then what the hell does it matter, how "deep" the squad is, if they are all awful?!

      If you really do support the CLUB, then you should be a hell of a lot more critical of our transfers, EXACTLY for the reasons you mentioned.  We can't afford to waste money, because our owners are not rich sugar daddies.  Each transfer that is exorbitantly over-priced and overwhelmingly unconvincing on the field sets the CLUB back, not only the on pitch product.  Because we don't always have that money to go buy a better player.  Then the top players we have left want to bail, and we start to sink deeper, and deeper, and deeper, until we're left with the mediocre signings we bought in order to COMPLEMENT the top players, but then we find ourselves stuck with the mediocre signings only, because the top players have left! 

      Seriously.  Some people need to take a long hard look at what is good for the club in the long run.  Anyone who thinks that £60m on the aforementioned players was money spent "smartly" needs to take a look in the mirror.
      stuey
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #65: Jun 04, 2013 04:59:58 pm

      Are you honestly, seriously suggesting that Allen was UNDER-valued at £15m, Borini UNDER-valued at £11m, Henderson UNDER-valued at £16m, Downing UNDER-valued at £20m?   do you call that "spending more smartly than our rivals"?

      If this were truly our policy, and we were absolutely skint, then it would at least be honest if we went around spending £2m or £3m on unknown players who could potentially be big stars.  We could say "that's all we can afford, sorry."  But it's not what we're doing.  We spent £25m on Allen and Borini alone last summer.  Is that "spending smartly"? 

      You say "apart from Everton;" they paid £5m last summer for Mirallas. 

      Be honest: you've got two options and you can only go with one, which do you pick? 

      A) Mirallas for £5m

      B) Allen and Borini for £25m?

      Which would have added more to our team this season? 

      Don't come with this bollocks of teams above us blowing us out of the water with their money.  We have spent close to £150m in the last three years alone.  The problem is 95% of that £150m was spent on garbage.  And NOT smartly.

      And you're telling me that in fact we paid UNDER what we should have for the awful players we have signed.  F***ing hell.


      "flavour of the month"?  "mikkitango"?  "Mikkitargaryen"? Are you on a wind-up mate?  You think Mkhitaryan is a "flavour of the month"?  Just because you haven't been watching him over the last few years doesn't means he's the "flavour of the month."  You probably would have said the same thing about Suarez.  And yea, it's definitely those "smart purchases" that we'd have to sacrifice.  Again, we spent £25m on two players last season who contributed the sum total of sweet F**k all.  Those were NOT smart purchases.  No matter what you think of them as players, there is not a single soul here who would sincerely justify the fees we paid for those players.  Not one. 

      A "smart" purchase is paying for players who we know have an extremely high likelihood of stepping in right away and contributing.  There was never, ever, even a single person who was certain that Allen or Borini would step in right away and be consistent contributors, even before they signed for us.  If that's the case, if we are going to be taking huge risks on players, then we should not be spending more than £4-5 on them.  Maximum.  The risk is too high, and we don't have the money to lose.  We shouldn't be paying £15m or upwards on any players other than those who have already shown what they can do at the highest level.  Mkhitaryan has absolutely dominated the Ukrainian league, a very physical, brutal league, and has run riot in the CL over some of the best sides in the world.  Will he be a guaranteed success?  nope.  But based on what he has done, there is a much higher likelihood that he will succeed than other players we have signed who had shown NOTHING before us signing them.

      It's never a "smart purchase" to buy awful players.  If they're not good enough to start for us in a pinch then they're not good enough, even for the "squad."  Go out and buy players with top skills who are willing to come to us.  Suarez came.  Coutinho came.  It can happen.  But don't bring up this bollocks about Mkhitaryan etc taking money away from other "smart" purchases.  We spent £60m on Downing, Henderson, Borini and Allen in the last few years.  Did you read that properly?  £60m.  None of those were "smart" purchases.  Imagine what we could have done with that money.  Look at this brilliant post from a few weeks ago:

      He's bang on the money.  If the squad is full of 10-15 players, none of whom are good enough, then what the hell does it matter, how "deep" the squad is, if they are all awful?!

      If you really do support the CLUB, then you should be a hell of a lot more critical of our transfers, EXACTLY for the reasons you mentioned.  We can't afford to waste money, because our owners are not rich sugar daddies.  Each transfer that is exorbitantly over-priced and overwhelmingly unconvincing on the field sets the CLUB back, not only the on pitch product.  Because we don't always have that money to go buy a better player.  Then the top players we have left want to bail, and we start to sink deeper, and deeper, and deeper, until we're left with the mediocre signings we bought in order to COMPLEMENT the top players, but then we find ourselves stuck with the mediocre signings only, because the top players have left! 

      Seriously.  Some people need to take a long hard look at what is good for the club in the long run.  Anyone who thinks that £60m on the aforementioned players was money spent "smartly" needs to take a look in the mirror.

      Hahahahaha.
      federer
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #66: Jun 04, 2013 05:01:29 pm

      What a supporter you are!  The club has spent £150m in the last few years and has gotten worse, and you think this is funny. 

      Hope you're proud of yourself.
      stuey
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #67: Jun 04, 2013 05:02:47 pm
      Hahahahahahahahahaha.

      edit:  Hahahah don't hahahahah feed hahah the hahah troll.
      federer
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      Re: Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Shakhtar Donetsk)
      Reply #68: Jun 04, 2013 05:03:34 pm

      erm.  ok.

      Quick Reply