Have we spent enough since 2005 to win the Premiership?

Ofcourse we haven't spent enough.

Anyone who thinks you can win a league with 15m a year obviously hasn't heard of the word "inflation".
They'd probably try and buy a new car with "3 shillings and sixpence"...

Chelsea and Man C have proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Also 2005-6 is a pretty arbitrary start point. I suppose you should look at 11 year cycles of something like that ie the who career of a top level player. You'd also need to look at wages in that figure,  what was inherited at the start date etc etc. Then add in wage and transfer fee inflation. Even how strong rival countries were at the time, euro-sterling exchange rates etc.

In football you get virtuous and vicious circles.  Its interesting to analyse the Mancs. They had big wages AND they were able to continue their "golden era" of home grown players eg Scholes, Nevilles, Giggs etc. Because there was a big squad, Ferguson was able to protect their home grown stars throughout their careers.

In contrast, we basically lost Owen, Fowler, Redknapp, Rob Jones, (Heggem?),  McManaman to their own greed, laziness or being overplayed- causing injury and premature career demise. Imagine if we had protected and kept that core. The 170m could then have been spent on the extras. Perhaps we'd have then seen a few PL titles at Anfield.

Basically, lack of resources meant our "golden generation" was overplayed at too young an age, and a vicious circle continued.
We were in a bit of a mess when Rafa arrived, but he managed to weave some magic, and picked us up a level.

We weren't THAT far from genuinely challenging for the league at the end of the Rafa era. Just replacing Bodgson with Rafa again, replacing Keane with Suarez(yes I know he was only there a few months under Rafa... but it was a hole in the team), finding a replacement for Xabi, and either keeping a revigorated Nando/ finding an established replacement. Add in some depth, maybe a top winger etc and we could have challenged very well.

Anyone who thinks league titles can be won by games of switcheroo and sell to buy, is frankly living on Planet Fenway.

Fair play to the Arse for their frugality over the years but what have they won ? a big fat F**k all, had i been a Arse bandit , i would be pissed that having moved to a multi million £ stadia and spent less on players than it would cost in security for aforementioned stadia, ok they have had regular CL football but that just increases their revenue and arguably have more funds at their disposal, they did get to a final once but got stage fright i believe, and now having finally splashed the cash this window buying one player at £42+m they still think that reaching CL football is a achievement, wrong, it may appease those in the boardrooms but in all honesty ARSE bandits  to a man would much prefer to be challenging for titles, and regard CL as a bonus, same way we do, well the majority of us anyway.

YNWA

 

We have spent enough, just not spent it well enough, really can't see the point in saying it isn't, not when you look at players purchased for prices we spent on far inferior talent.

We have spent enough, just not spent it well enough, really can't see the point in saying it isn't, not when you look at players purchased for prices we spent on far inferior talent.

Is the correct answer.

It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it that counts.
A bit simplistic, I know, because every manager will make misjudgements in the market at times, but the fact remains that if you spend well on the right players at the right time, that's more important than just chucking money around for the sake of it.

Houllier made some good buys, but he also made some awful ones, as did Rafa (although to be fair, his big money signings did very well for the most part), so it will be interesting to see how BR fares in the coming years.

its a bit of a difficult point to make as Utd had a championship winning squad and we didn't

In '08/09 you could argue we did too...so why were we spending so much more money since that year and United didn't and they've had greater success?

Ofcourse we haven't spent enough.

Anyone who thinks you can win a league with 15m a year obviously hasn't heard of the word "inflation".
They'd probably try and buy a new car with "3 shillings and sixpence"...

Chelsea and Man C have proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Also 2005-6 is a pretty arbitrary start point. I suppose you should look at 11 year cycles of something like that ie the who career of a top level player. You'd also need to look at wages in that figure,  what was inherited at the start date etc etc. Then add in wage and transfer fee inflation. Even how strong rival countries were at the time, euro-sterling exchange rates etc.

In football you get virtuous and vicious circles.  Its interesting to analyse the Mancs. They had big wages AND they were able to continue their "golden era" of home grown players eg Scholes, Nevilles, Giggs etc. Because there was a big squad, Ferguson was able to protect their home grown stars throughout their careers.

In contrast, we basically lost Owen, Fowler, Redknapp, Rob Jones, (Heggem?),  McManaman to their own greed, laziness or being overplayed- causing injury and premature career demise. Imagine if we had protected and kept that core. The 170m could then have been spent on the extras. Perhaps we'd have then seen a few PL titles at Anfield.

Basically, lack of resources meant our "golden generation" was overplayed at too young an age, and a vicious circle continued.
We were in a bit of a mess when Rafa arrived, but he managed to weave some magic, and picked us up a level.

We weren't THAT far from genuinely challenging for the league at the end of the Rafa era. Just replacing Bodgson with Rafa again, replacing Keane with Suarez(yes I know he was only there a few months under Rafa... but it was a hole in the team), finding a replacement for Xabi, and either keeping a revigorated Nando/ finding an established replacement. Add in some depth, maybe a top winger etc and we could have challenged very well.

Anyone who thinks league titles can be won by games of switcheroo and sell to buy, is frankly living on Planet Fenway.

And yet the part in bold is exactly what Rafa did.
He bought and sold players at an incredible rate, all to raise the few extra million that allowed him to buy in the players he wanted.

The current owners keen to keep finances in order and not overspend, as what they seem to see, has happened in the past. Having said that the current squad of players is doing very well, in the early days of the season as our position inn the table shows.

The current owners keen to keep finances in order and not overspend, as what they seem to see, has happened in the past.

I agree with this ethos, even though it's deeply unpopular with some of our fans. As many have already said: It's not spending lots that brings success, it's striking the balance to bring in the right players for the right price.

I'm just hoping that Brendan has spent well so far. The next season or two should determine whether the likes of Allen (£15m), Aspas (£7m), Borini (£11m), and Alberto (£7m) will come good. That's £40m of talent there!

What I couldn't understand is why we'd sell Shelvey (who in my opinion is a better player than Allen) for only £5m?!

I think we've spent enough but the window of 2011 may have cost us and put us back a bit further than we would have liked. if we appointed Rodgers after WOY we might have spent that Torres cash a little wiser or not spent it at all and waited for the summer. That massive mistake of buying a w*nk player for £35mil was terrible.

I think we've spent enough but the window of 2011 may have cost us and put us back a bit further than we would have liked. if we appointed Rodgers after WOY we might have spent that Torres cash a little wiser or not spent it at all and waited for the summer. That massive mistake of buying a w*nk player for £35mil was terrible.

The awful transfers of summer 2011 put us back two years. If we had spent better then we'd be looking forward to CL footie this year.

I think we've spent enough but the window of 2011 may have cost us and put us back a bit further than we would have liked. if we appointed Rodgers after WOY we might have spent that Torres cash a little wiser or not spent it at all and waited for the summer. That massive mistake of buying a w*nk player for £35mil was terrible.

Don't you like how we have spent right now? All bargain players. Max of £15m per player with potential sell on value. Sturridge for sale at £20m anyone? A cool 30% return on investment.

The owners are determined not to make the mistakes of the past, by paying over the top prices for players who do not come up to the standard, required by the club. It seems to be the case of buying players at a more realistic price, that can fit into the side.

The owners are determined not to make the mistakes of the past, by paying over the top prices for players who do not come up to the standard, required by the club. It seems to be the case of buying players at a more realistic price, that can fit into the side.

And Rodgers has said if the right player is worth £30m and they wanted to come here, he had the dough (in the now shut window) to buy them.  But as you state, the most important thing is that they fit the side and what Rodgers is building.

Money has ALWAYS bought the PL title, has done from day one...Man Utd (one of the richest clubs in the world) have splashed out record transfer fees many times since the PL began (and before). Citeh, Chavs, and Blackburn all bought the title (Leeds bankrupt themselves buying their title). Arsenal seem to be the exception to the rule.

In answer to the OP, no we haven't spent enough to win the title, we can clearly see that the title currently costs £400+ million, we are £200 million short.

Sturridge for sale at £20m anyone? A cool 30% return on investment.

No deal!

Can I ask the OP why just since 2005?

And yet the part in bold is exactly what Rafa did.
He bought and sold players at an incredible rate, all to raise the few extra million that allowed him to buy in the players he wanted.

 

Well taking this in  the context of your previous agenda, thats a pretty ridiculous suggestion.
But then when I read someone trying to tell me how "great" Fenway are, followed by phrases such as "I'm having too much fun, already..."...

For the record, Rafa came close to the title, manifestly NOT because he was forced to sell to buy. When he WAS forced, our challenge fell into ruin.

Would you desribe THIS as "sell to buy"?:-

Purchases of Torres (upto 28m), Mascherano, Keane and Alonso. Even Reina's transfer fee was nearly the size of Mignolet's 5 years ago. Add to that the fact that Rafa KNEW you had to pay decent salaries, infact at that time LFC competed with EVERYONE on salaries. Unlike your heroes in Boston.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of your ridiculous agenda...?

The owners are determined not to make the mistakes of the past, by paying over the top prices for players who do not come up to the standard, required by the club. It seems to be the case of buying players at a more realistic price, that can fit into the side.

I think relative to what we've seen, we've violated this principle many a times. Borini, Allen, Aspas, Alberto, Sakho and even Mignolet. That's around £65m for six players. Avg price little over £10m and when you buy players in this category, regardless of how many you purchase, you'll get a poor return. Some turn out rather good though, like Daniel Sturridge and hopefully Alberto Moreno.

We've spent a lot, but have opted for quantity before quality.

What I couldn't understand is why we'd sell Shelvey (who in my opinion is a better player than Allen) for only £5m?!

Good point, there aren't many sales you can point to where we've actually got a good deal for our player. We've been shafted in the sales department relentlessly and probably why so many were keen to take that £14m for Borini, it seemed for the first time in a long time we were getting a decent deal selling someone.

Can anyone name our biggest  customers last season?
(Or indeed biggest revenue earner full stop last yr - including shirt and club sponsors etc).

Its rather a telling statistic. And goes some way to explaining what the Americans transfer and also business policy is.

Good point, there aren't many sales you can point to where we've actually got a good deal for our player. We've been shafted in the sales department relentlessly and probably why so many were keen to take that £14m for Borini, it seemed for the first time in a long time we were getting a decent deal selling someone.

And then the deal fell through. Typifies our luck at the moment. What is even more bizarre is that Borini seems to be Brendan's third choice striker ahead of Lambert. He wanted to sell the former but keep the latter.

Net spending since 2005 (05/06 summer onward) per club

Manchester United - £172m
Manchester City - £471m
Chelsea - £409m
Liverpool - £204m
Arsenal - £6.1m
Tottenham - £138m

Net spending this season:

Man Utd - £115m
Arsenal - £65m
Liverpool - £37m
Everton - £33m
Man City - £30m
Chelsea - £12m

You can excuse Chelsea's spending for they already had an excellent squad. They didn't need Luiz or Lukaku like we needed Luis Suarez, so they were able to spend little net amount and still strengthen significantly. City were similar and like Chelsea, only sold players who were surplus to requirements. Manchester United on the other hand needed to improve significantly, and have spent large amounts as a result. No doubting that they've got some real talent in their squad now. Proven talent as well. Arsenal spent well this summer, getting in Sanchez, Debuchy and Welbeck. And then you've got Everton, who have spent little less than us. Funny that. Thought they were always skint. However for £28m or so, I do not rate Lukaku. Do not think he's worth that.

Was genuinely expecting us to spend upwards of £60m net this summer. Maybe there is some to be spent in January, but Rodgers did state that this would be our biggest window for a good while.