Luis Suarez- It's time to forgive, forget, and get behind him.

He wont go anyware in Jan as the owners are not daft business men, and if they are thinking of selling him for a huge bale like fee then waiting till after the world cup is the only option. As all prices are hiked up after world cups as most players perform well especailly someone like Suarez who is one of their Key players.

I think the owners understand this. But it seems like if the owners aren't committed, they would sell Suraez. My short and long term ownership hypothesis suggests that selling Suraez is the easy way out financially.

Short term ownership hypothesis
If they sell Suraez after the World Cup, the club pockets £30-50m transfer fee straightaway (contract expires 2017). Being in CL gets the club approximately £20m a year (based on CL prize money for last season for English teams going out at group stages). Means it will take 1.5-2 years in CL group stages to earn close to the amount Suraez is worth???

Long term ownership hypothesis
Keeping Suraez gets you into the CL. And you get £20m every year by being in the CL group stages. Being in CL gets you more sponsorship money. Hopefully our commercial team steps up. But you can't renew your £25m a year Warrior deal till 2018 (6 years from 2012). Also there is a lot of reinvestment to do for squad strengthening, and a lot more work to do on the pitch to progress into the knockout stages in order to obtain more CL money. Not easy money after all.

I guess that's why the Spuds see no point in keeping Gareth Bale. 1) the money is too attractive, it would take too long to be in the CL to earn that sort of money. 2) the player would run down his contract, they may as well sell now.

Let's see how committed the owners are. Time will tell.

Never say never in this game, tbh I cannot see Luis being sold in jan either but money talks and if we fail to reach the promise land of the CL then he will definitely go,

But I believe BR is counting on us reaching CL in May which would in all honesty be the carrot to convince luis his future lies here at Anfield,

Also reaching CL  could mean FSG finally digging deep and give the funds needed for those top quality players we are short on at present,

As for forgiving, forgetting etc, no not yet, I'm as happy as anyone that he is back and starting to fire on all cylinders, but i feel he still owes the club and we fans for his disgraceful behaviour in the summer,
He thought he would get his dream move to RM only for that to be scuppered, and then thought the Arse would be his saviour,

Nah, I'll forgive and forget when that apology is spoken and he then commits to another contract without conditions such as a buy out clause,

Failing all that and he jumps ship I would not accept anything less than £90m or he can rot on the f***in bench, at Kirkby.



YNWA

Never say never in this game, tbh I cannot see Luis being sold in jan either but money talks and if we fail to reach the promise land of the CL then he will definitely go,

But I believe BR is counting on us reaching CL in May which would in all honesty be the carrot to convince luis his future lies here at Anfield,

Also reaching CL  could mean FSG finally digging deep and give the funds needed for those top quality players we are short on at present,

As for forgiving, forgetting etc, no not yet, I'm as happy as anyone that he is back and starting to fire on all cylinders, but i feel he still owes the club and we fans for his disgraceful behaviour in the summer,
He thought he would get his dream move to RM only for that to be scuppered, and then thought the Arse would be his saviour,

Nah, I'll forgive and forget when that apology is spoken and he then commits to another contract without conditions such as a buy out clause,

Failing all that and he jumps ship I would not accept anything less than £90m or he can rot on the f***in bench, at Kirkby.



YNWA

Just touching on the highlighted part Bill, I don't think FSG are the types that will splash the cash once we reach the Champions League, they never backed the manager to achieve getting us there, which leaves to doubt they will back him keeping us in the Champions League by splashing the cash.

Just touching on the highlighted part Bill, I don't think FSG are the types that will splash the cash once we reach the Champions League, they never backed the manager to achieve getting us there, which leaves to doubt they will back him keeping us in the Champions League by splashing the cash.

They've always contended they would not spend more than we make. Not sure why people can't seem to grasp that. So I'm sure they won't spend anymore than they make from CL qualification. They may not spend all of it...but I doubt they'll spend more.

I don't think FSG are the types that will splash the cash once we reach the Champions League, they never backed the manager to achieve getting us there, which leaves to doubt they will back him keeping us in the Champions League by splashing the cash.

We will see where they choose to run with our success in terms of spending, but the fact of the matter is the pool of talent languishing on the bench or worse in Europe's oil-rich sheikh-owned playboy clubs is enough to, if properly assembled and motivated, whipe the floor with the likes of citeh, psg, chavs etc... Look at where Studge was, compared to what he's doing every week for us now.

I would be embarrassed to be a fan of a mega-rich club seeing the likes of Marin, Santa Cruz, de bruyne, matic, Bellamy, robinho, Torres, Ba, adebayor, nasri, de Jong, (the aforementioned Studge), Moses, Adam Johnson etc. all being treated as fire-and-forget weapons or frozen out on the bench after a big-money move. FSG refuse to operate in that way and I'm glad; if it takes a little longer to get to the top then so be it. For now I'm happy trusting the gaffer to take advantage of other clubs' poor business and making cheeky bids for guys like Pastore

They did the right thing by keeping Suarez but every player has his price and they are going to do what's in the best interests I the club.

Btw I'm not saying all of those players mentioned above went on to set the world on fire, just that they might have been better used and more integrated into a tight, cohesive unit.

Studge?

Do you mean Sturridge?

Just touching on the highlighted part Bill, I don't think FSG are the types that will splash the cash once we reach the Champions League, they never backed the manager to achieve getting us there, which leaves to doubt they will back him keeping us in the Champions League by splashing the cash.

Sincerely hope your wrong Shabs, the way I see it is FSG thus far are reluctant to spend millions trying to get there and then failing, something we have as a club have being doing in recent years,

It's true they have said they would only invest the monies the club brings in rather than use their own, if that is still the case then it's easy to see why Brendan has had to operate with limited resources, ie; the failure to sign Mkhyteran , Willian, and I think Diego Costa,

It's in complete contrast to Levy at Spuds who has invested heavily in the hope they qualify,  I suppose we will all find out soon enough which method worked best,

I would like to think that having reached the CL and the money that will bring FSG will be true to their word and allow Brendan to buy who he wants, if not then they may as well sell up and F**k off, because their ambitions are not of the same as ours , Brendan's or indeed the club itself,

Perhaps we should start a Liverpool baseball team see how they back that up. !


YNWA

Sincerely hope your wrong Shabs, the way I see it is FSG thus far are reluctant to spend millions trying to get there and then failing, something we have as a club have being doing in recent years,

It's true they have said they would only invest the monies the club brings in rather than use their own, if that is still the case then it's easy to see why Brendan has had to operate with limited resources, ie; the failure to sign Mkhyteran , Willian, and I think Diego Costa,

It's in complete contrast to Levy at Spuds who has invested heavily in the hope they qualify,  I suppose we will all find out soon enough which method worked best,

I would like to think that having reached the CL and the money that will bring FSG will be true to their word and allow Brendan to buy who he wants, if not then they may as well sell up and f**k off, because their ambitions are not of the same as ours , Brendan's or indeed the club itself,

Perhaps we should start a Liverpool baseball team see how they back that up. !


YNWA

They don't put a penny of they're money into the Red Sox to be fair Billy, they never have.

They don't put a penny of they're money into the Red Sox to be fair Billy, they never have.

Looks like they won't then by the looks of it,
Not like Levy who obviously has a completely different mindset to that of our owners,
I sort of get both sides of the story where I don't think we should spend the amount spuds have but at the same token we haven't spent enough to properly support or back up Brendan,
I suppose FSG are ambitious but not ambitious enough for my liking.

YNWA

Looks like they won't then by the looks of it,
Not like Levy who obviously has a completely different mindset to that of our owners,
I sort of get both sides of the story where I don't think we should spend the amount spuds have but at the same token we haven't spent enough to properly support or back up Brendan,
I suppose FSG are ambitious but not ambitious enough for my liking.

YNWA

Thing is this, when it's all said and done Billy the revenues that LFC could raise over Spurs would outpace anything Levy could do on his own. Only thing is FSG needs to be true to its word to re-invest back into the club; if they do that then Spurs could never keep pace as they are "in global revenue terms" a very small club.


I realize wages have been cut on the Liverpool squad the past few years, I do not know what Spurs have done wage wise.


What I do know Billy is that it appears that the big money Levy has "put into the squad' is nothing more than an urban myth the past 4 seasons; unless of course transfermark is flat out lying.


2013/2014 Spurs

Transfer Net  -3.855.000 

2012/2013 Spurs

Transfer Net -5.470.000

2011/2012 Spurs

Transfer Net +33.800.000

2010/2011 Spurs

Transfer Net -23.165.000


Not seeing huge investment here by Mr. Levy to be honest.

Not like Levy who obviously has a completely different mindset to that of our owners,

Ah yes, Levy of Spurs, the team that have had a net spend of aprox £0 over the last 4 seasons.  But never let the truth get the way of an opinion. 

Although to be fair, it was low because they were recuperating from 'arry's reign, but over the last 10 seasons, both Liverpool and Spurs have spent about the same.

I've already resigned myself to losing Suarez at the end of the season, Madrid must be kicking themselves that they went for Bale, and I expect them to try and rectify that in the Summer.
All this talk about Benzema + £20 million doesn't excite me, if Real want Luis, we need to sell on our terms!

One big difference between Suarez and Torres, If it had of been Torres that wasn't allowed to leave, he probably would have sulked, and refused to play, whereas Suarez is still playing his heart out for us, just like Mascherano did when he was told to stay put.

Ah yes, Levy of Spurs, the team that have had a net spend of aprox £0 over the last 4 seasons.  But never let the truth get the way of an opinion. 

Although to be fair, it was low because they were recuperating from 'arry's reign, but over the last 10 seasons, both Liverpool and Spurs have spent about the same.

The difference is, one spent much more wisely than the other. 

If Suarez is enjoying his football as much as he looks like he is, including training, Do you expect him to be here beyond January. If so, and we get a good bit of investment in January, stay challenging for the prem, and gett C.L. next season, will he still be here for next season ?
 And if Bale is worth in excess of £80 Mill, who the F**k is gonna pay £100 Mill + for Suarez ? For that would be his comparable worth.

Thing is this, when it's all said and done Billy the revenues that LFC could raise over Spurs would outpace anything Levy could do on his own. Only thing is FSG needs to be true to its word to re-invest back into the club; if they do that then Spurs could never keep pace as they are "in global revenue terms" a very small club.


I realize wages have been cut on the Liverpool squad the past few years, I do not know what Spurs have done wage wise.


What I do know Billy is that it appears that the big money Levy has "put into the squad' is nothing more than an urban myth the past 4 seasons; unless of course transfermark is flat out lying.


2013/2014 Spurs

Transfer Net  -3.855.000 

2012/2013 Spurs

Transfer Net -5.470.000

2011/2012 Spurs

Transfer Net +33.800.000

2010/2011 Spurs

Transfer Net -23.165.000


Not seeing huge investment here by Mr. Levy to be honest.

Cheers for the info AZ, I guess it's all going to come down to how much of the CL money will be reinvested if at all any IF we indeed do qualify,
I get where your coming from in that Spuds are smaller than LFC but I was under the impression Levy had spent over £90m in the summer bringing in the likes of Ericson  & co I'm happy to corrected if indeed I am wrong , not that clued up in stats so I'll take your word on it .

YNWA

I don't think FSG are the types that will splash the cash once we reach the Champions League, they never backed the manager to achieve getting us there.

£35m - Andy Carroll
£23m - Luis Suarez
£16m - Jordan Henderson
£20m - Stewart Downing
£8m - Charles Adam
£15m - Joseph Allen
£11m - Fabio Borini
£12m - Daniel Sturridge
£9m - Coutinho

= £149m, in less than three years.

On what planet is spending almost £150 million in less than three years considered "not backing the manager"?

If someone had told you in 2011 that the manager(s) will have £150m to spend on player purchases in three years in the hopes of getting CL, there's no way in hell you would have said "nah, that's not enough."

FSG have spent plenty of money on player purchases. 

The problem is that most of the players purchased have been sh*te.

But don't blame FSG for that.  They got who Kenny, Comolli and Rodgers wanted. 

If the players weren't good enough that is NOT FSG's fault. 

= £149m, in less than three years.

On what planet is spending almost £150 million in less than three years considered "not backing the manager"?

The planet on where we pobably sold around £100M worth of players in the same period.


FSG didn't actually invest £150M in that period.

The planet on where we pobably sold around £100M worth of players in the same period.


FSG didn't actually invest £150M in that period.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

So in the end, £150M in player acquisitions is not enough for you, considering that most of it was recouped in sales.

So what *would* be enough?  £200m?  £250m?

At that point we're just becoming City.

That's not what I want and I doubt it's what you want.

The bottom line is this: if we had spent that money better, we'd be in a much better position right now.

The planet on where we pobably sold around £100M worth of players in the same period.

Sorry for staying off-topic here but to be honest 'backing the manager' is (in my opinion) less to do with how much was spent and more to do with buying the players he wants Si.

They [FSG] certainly "backed" Kenny with "his", Comolli targeted, sabrematics based, purchases but why wouldn't they? After all; Comolli was their man; the man John Henry praised for his work that Summer; the man John Henry lauded for introducing a "new philosophy to the club".

Have they "backed" Brendan; their man? Well obviously not, when he wanted Dempsey and Sturridge, at the start of Summer 2012 but... Obviously yes, when he wanted Coutinho and Sturridge this January - that said: I'm not so sure they [FSG] would have "backed" Brendan had the two been priced at £20m+ each. Then, moving on... although he missed out on his "one top target" this Summer the chances are they would have "backed" him again.

The truth is (to my mind anyhow): their "backing" of Brendan [their man] was missing initially but is starting to grow.

Let's be honest here: Brendan has been able to sign twelve (fifteen, if we count loaners) of his "own players" in the season he's been here - that looks like some sort of "backing" to me. Of course, the question might then be: would he have signed the same twelve had more money have been made available? The answer: probably not.

One thing I must be clear on: we all know, though we can pretend otherwise if it suits, that FSG haven't actually spent a penny, of their own money, on players.

So yes the manager has been "backed" (to a greater or lesser extent) by Club finances. Is that backing enough? Over to Brendan, I guess. 

On topic: Suarez - still the Mutt's Nuts as far as I'm concerned. 

Sabremetrics doesn't really apply to this particular sport.

Baseball is a game of averages and statistics. You can plan and form your strategy according to a players' career statistics, while allowing for probable error. That way, you get a good idea how many men will get on base on average, how many runs tuey will bat in etc. This is something fsg implemented at the Red Sox, but it's not done on the shoestring budget billy beane has at Oakland. Boston uses the same system pioneered by the A's + millions when they see the players they really want.

You can't really apply the same law of averages in the premier league; fsg learned this when they bought Downing and expected him to pump in cross after cross for Carroll to turn in, and then he didn't.

Suarez represents an asset on and off the field, getting you goals or sh*t loads o cash depending on how you want to play your hand. They did the right thing this summer and, since they took over, have shown some principal, not to mention humility in owning up to their mistakes. I really do think they are forging a dynasty that, when the timing is right, will be backed to go after brightest stars.

Sorry for staying off-topic here but to be honest 'backing the manager' is (in my opinion) less to do with how much was spent and more to do with buying the players he wants Si.

That much is true Mouse and like you I feel the amount of backing does seem to be growing but I still think there was an element of distrust in Brendan's targets over the summer and he did indicate frustration at missing out on at least one of them from what I remember.

On topic: Suarez - still the Mutt's Nuts as far as I'm concerned. 

Indeed.

Hattrick against the Gunners anyone?