"We Need To Talk About Gerrard."

As far as DM is concerned, Lucas is our best natural player in that position. Look at his performance against Madrid.

92% pass completion
2/2 aerial duels won
3 interceptions
3 blocks
2 clearances

Clearly reads the game better. Just do not partner him with Stevie.

Two more Lucas Threads?
F**k that.

Sorry mate. Been working too much lately. 

Apologies for going round the houses a bit here, but it comes together for the point I'm trying to make.

Before I joined this forum I read back through a lot of old threads, and saw a few recurring themes regarding Carragher.
It seemed that every season there were people saying his legs had gone, that he wasn't the player he had been, that his lack of pace was exposing us too much (he never had much to begin with) etc etc
Now I'll hold my hands up here and say that I was never Carra's biggest fan.
I never thought he was world class, but I could never fault his attitude and commitment.
The whole Rafa thing when he (allegedly) had people briefing the press left a sour taste, and I felt he had let himself and the club down.
At the same time though, once he stepped onto the pitch, I knew he would give it everything that he had, and none of us can ask for more than that.
I also knew that he'd always been a bit of a slow starter in the Prem, and that wasn't going to improve as he got older, and sure enough he got better and better as the season went on.

In many ways, he was the opposite of Gerrard.
I remember Redknapp jr saying in an interview how players loved to be up against Carra in training when as a young lad he first started training with the first team because he was slow, couldn't really tackle, couldn't turn etc and the senior players basically had great sport tying him in knots.
However, what happened next left a lasting impression on Redknapp jr. Carra went away, and instead of relaxing on the beach, put in a monumental amount of work and effort and came back for pre-season bigger, fitter, stronger, more muscular, and (crucially) more composed.
To sum up, he had to fight to prove people wrong from day 1 of his senior career, and it says a lot about his character that he continued to do it right up until the time he retired.

We also had another young player coming through the ranks, and people were just blown away by his talent, but also his pace, aggression and will to win. He also had to prove a few doubters wrong after not being picked to go to the FA school of excellence, but none of those who doubted him were at Liverpool.
Houllier had to rein him in a bit, but he was young and just doing what young lads with lots of money did back then.
Time and time again, he showed his class.
Yes, he flirted with chelsea a bit, but that was more a result of his own insecurity than anything else, and also down to that arch tw*t Parry, who was dragging his feet as usual, instead of getting on with what he was paid to do.
One of the best moments I've seen in football was during a game against man u, when there was a 50-50 and both Keane and Gerrard went for it, full blooded, holding nothing back. You could hear the smack as the 2 collided, but what happened next was that both players got up, Gerrard eyeballed Keane, and the hardest player of his generation gave a little nod of respect. A truly wonderful moment.
We're used to seeing him rip opponents apart.
We're used to seeing him hit 30 yard screamers.
We're used to seeing him put a player in the stands with a real (fair) crunching tackle.
We're used to seeing him rampaging through the midfield leaving opponents trailing in his wake.
We've also forgotten, that like Carra he can be a bit of a slow starter, but (also like Carra) he improved as the season went on.

I don't think his legs are gone as such.
I've said many times that his adductor injury when he had post surgery infections have taken a lot out of him, and that he simply can't do the things he could before that.
He's done brilliantly to modify his game, but people still expect him to do the same things he did when he was younger, and I think that is the root cause of the criticism we see and hear.
It's hard for people to accept that a legend has the proverbial "feet of clay", but time marches on and catches up no matter how good a player is.
I've said that I have no worries about Gerrard regaining his best form, because just like Carra, he's been a slow starter.

My criticism of him as a captain may seem unfair, but I really do think that as a captain he needs to be much more vocal now that his ability to lead by example is declining.
He remains in the top 5 all time Liverpool greats, and is right up there with Souness as our best midfielder.
I'm not getting into a comparison here, because they have totally different attributes.
He has modified his game, I think he has it in him to modify his captaincy style, because now more than ever, we need him to show the new (and some established) players, exactly what it means to play for our great club.

Apologies for the late reply Swab, been flat out working. I must say that was an excellent post.

I understand what you are saying with regards to Gerrard modifying his captaincy style but in all honesty i fear he is mentally drained. Over the past decade he has seen the likes of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard leave the Club. I think last Season really took a toll on him, we were so close and i think he knew this was his last chance at the Big One.

Every time we acquire a world class talent and we start to build something they move on, for whatever reason, usually a lack of investment or the old buy to sell.

It's alright asking Gerrard to modify his captaincy style but there's an old saying. No matter how many times you polish a turd it is still a turd. Gerrard is surrounded by players that are well below his level, not all of them, but most of them. After selling Suarez the biggest name we signed was Lallana.

I haven't got anything against Lallana, i think he's a good player and will come good hopefully.

My point is that if you sell one of the best players in the World and can only muster a couple of Southampton players and Mario Balotelli then that doesn't really say a lot for the Club's ambition.

Every time Gerrard gets close to that League, somebody pulls the rug and i think it's got to him. If any player in the world deserves a Premier League medal it is Gerrard. The best midfielder in this country for a long time and the best in the world for a while too.

There are many people who are answerable at Liverpool Football Club, Gerrard is not one of them. As you said, he'll always be a Legend to every supporter.

If he doesn't get a League winners medal then it won't be through any fault of his own, it will be the fault of the business men who invest or spunk our income on sh*te.

Apologies for the late reply Swab, been flat out working. I must say that was an excellent post.

I understand what you are saying with regards to Gerrard modifying his captaincy style but in all honesty i fear he is mentally drained. Over the past decade he has seen the likes of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard leave the Club. I think last Season really took a toll on him, we were so close and i think he knew this was his last chance at the Big One.

Every time we acquire a world class talent and we start to build something they move on, for whatever reason, usually a lack of investment or the old buy to sell.

It's alright asking Gerrard to modify his captaincy style but there's an old saying. No matter how many times you polish a turd it is still a turd. Gerrard is surrounded by players that are well below his level, not all of them, but most of them. After selling Suarez the biggest name we signed was Lallana.

I haven't got anything against Lallana, i think he's a good player and will come good hopefully.

My point is that if you sell one of the best players in the World and can only muster a couple of Southampton players and Mario Balotelli then that doesn't really say a lot for the Club's ambition.

Every time Gerrard gets close to that League, somebody pulls the rug and i think it's got to him. If any player in the world deserves a Premier League medal it is Gerrard. The best midfielder in this country for a long time and the best in the world for a while too.

There are many people who are answerable at Liverpool Football Club, Gerrard is not one of them. As you said, he'll always be a Legend to every supporter.

If he doesn't get a League winners medal then it won't be through any fault of his own, it will be the fault of the business men who invest or spunk our income on sh*te.

Good posts, yours and Swabs that you were replying to.

As far as DM is concerned, Lucas is our best natural player in that position. Look at his performance against Madrid.

92% pass completion
2/2 aerial duels won
3 interceptions
3 blocks
2 clearances

Clearly reads the game better. Just do not partner him with Stevie.

Always underrated.

Apologies for the late reply Swab, been flat out working. I must say that was an excellent post.

I understand what you are saying with regards to Gerrard modifying his captaincy style but in all honesty i fear he is mentally drained. Over the past decade he has seen the likes of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard leave the Club. I think last Season really took a toll on him, we were so close and i think he knew this was his last chance at the Big One.

Every time we acquire a world class talent and we start to build something they move on, for whatever reason, usually a lack of investment or the old buy to sell.

It's alright asking Gerrard to modify his captaincy style but there's an old saying. No matter how many times you polish a turd it is still a turd. Gerrard is surrounded by players that are well below his level, not all of them, but most of them. After selling Suarez the biggest name we signed was Lallana.

I haven't got anything against Lallana, i think he's a good player and will come good hopefully.

My point is that if you sell one of the best players in the World and can only muster a couple of Southampton players and Mario Balotelli then that doesn't really say a lot for the Club's ambition.

Every time Gerrard gets close to that League, somebody pulls the rug and i think it's got to him. If any player in the world deserves a Premier League medal it is Gerrard. The best midfielder in this country for a long time and the best in the world for a while too.

There are many people who are answerable at Liverpool Football Club, Gerrard is not one of them. As you said, he'll always be a Legend to every supporter.

If he doesn't get a League winners medal then it won't be through any fault of his own, it will be the fault of the business men who invest or spunk our income on sh*te.

I understand your concerns mate, and your points about Gerrard are reasonable, but I also think my points are as well.

I think the bottom line for me is that Gerrard gets paid more per year than many earn in a lifetime to do a job that 99.9% of the population can only dream of.
I don't want to reduce him to a mere employee, that would be wrong, but it's also factually correct.
So the bottom line for me, regardless of reasons is that he needs to do his utmost to lift the team. That's what captains do.
That's why he is currently the highest paid member of the squad, the most senior player, the most experienced player, and arguably still our most naturally gifted player.
We know that he hasn't had a good start, and I have seen him being more vocal than he used to be, which is a positive point.
I cannot absolve him of his duties and responsibilities though.
He's the club captain, he needs to show what that means, not only to players around him but also to us, and perhaps to himself as well.

Gerrard needs to show what being club captains means....wow that's a new one.If ever a club Captain has shown what it means to him to win matches for the Club then I doubt you will find his equal.time after time this lad has hauled this club from nowhere to victory he deserves far more respect than he is getting on these pages.
He is coming to the end of his playing days I think his Agent and the club are not handling this well and this isn't helped by Brendan declaring how many more years he could play in his new position which Brendan designed for him.

Gerrard needs to show what being club captains means....wow that's a new one.If ever a club Captain has shown what it means to him to win matches for the Club then I doubt you will find his equal.time after time this lad has hauled this club from nowhere to victory he deserves far more respect than he is getting on these pages.
He is coming to the end of his playing days I think his Agent and the club are not handling this well and this isn't helped by Brendan declaring how many more years he could play in his new position which Brendan designed for him.

Yeh, blame his agent / the club / the manager. Not as though he is an experienced international and club captain with responsibility for his own actions is it?

Gerrard needs to show what being club captains means....wow that's a new one.If ever a club Captain has shown what it means to him to win matches for the Club then I doubt you will find his equal.time after time this lad has hauled this club from nowhere to victory he deserves far more respect than he is getting on these pages.
He is coming to the end of his playing days I think his Agent and the club are not handling this well and this isn't helped by Brendan declaring how many more years he could play in his new position which Brendan designed for him.

And he's still doing it is he?
He's in the form of his life, and showing the rest of the squad up by his brilliant example is he?

The whole point made over 2 pages in an excellent discussion with Hardcoresoldier is that he isn't leading by example anymore, and needs to modify his captaincy.

And he's still doing it is he?
He's in the form of his life, and showing the rest of the squad up by his brilliant example is he?

The whole point made over 2 pages in an excellent discussion with Hardcoresoldier is that he isn't leading by example anymore, and needs to modify his captaincy.

that's the managers decision not his. Brendan picks the team not Stevie he was never a Captain that encouraged players he was a swashbuckling player and he isn't anymore.I just don't get why Brendan doesn't get it in the neck he should never have been put back deep he cant defend or hold his position Rafa new that and played him out wide right and behind Torres anywhere but in a position where he needed to keep his position.
Put him back in his natural position and play him on merit.

Yeh, blame his agent / the club / the manager. Not as though he is an experienced international and club captain with responsibility for his own actions is it?

did you forget to engage your single brain cell before posting that.FFS.

Gerrard needs to show what being club captains means....wow that's a new one.If ever a club Captain has shown what it means to him to win matches for the Club then I doubt you will find his equal.time after time this lad has hauled this club from nowhere to victory he deserves far more respect than he is getting on these pages.
He is coming to the end of his playing days I think his Agent and the club are not handling this well and this isn't helped by Brendan declaring how many more years he could play in his new position which Brendan designed for him.

Well said Walton, I cannot believe some of the comments on here about Stevie,  some folk have real short memories, like goldfish it seems,

Un-f***in-believable!!!


YNWA

that's the managers decision not his. Brendan picks the team not Stevie he was never a Captain that encouraged players he was a swashbuckling player and he isn't anymore.I just don't get why Brendan doesn't get it in the neck he should never have been put back deep he cant defend or hold his position Rafa new that and played him out wide right and behind Torres anywhere but in a position where he needed to keep his position.
Put him back in his natural position and play him on merit.

Again, this is a point I've been making, he needs to change his captaincy "style".
He wants to be picked, he probably thinks he should be should be picked, and if he is not on form then he needs to bring real captaincy to the team.
In fairness, I've seen him being more vocal, but he needs to do more.

I'd also point out that if BR dropped him based on his form, this place would probably implode.

Well said Walton, I cannot believe some of the comments on here about Stevie,  some folk have real short memories, like goldfish it seems,

Un-f***in-believable!!!


YNWA

How many  Liverpool players have had a Cup final named after them, people have short memories or at least convenient one's.

Again, this is a point I've been making, he needs to change his captaincy "style".
He wants to be picked, he probably thinks he should be should be picked, and if he is not on form then he needs to bring real captaincy to the team.
In fairness, I've seen him being more vocal, but he needs to do more.

I'd also point out that if BR dropped him based on his form, this place would probably implode.

Not if we won it wouldn't. Stevie is getting stick for being 34 and not being the player he was at 28. Brendan is not getting stick for still playing him.
If he is worthy of his place he should play end of story.

Again, this is a point I've been making, he needs to change his captaincy "style".
He wants to be picked, he probably thinks he should be should be picked, and if he is not on form then he needs to bring real captaincy to the team.
In fairness, I've seen him being more vocal, but he needs to do more.

I'd also point out that if BR dropped him based on his form, this place would probably implode.

Some captains are poor players. They lead buy fighting, shouting and constantly being too loud!!

Some captains let their football do the talking and therefore lead by example - this is our man!

The problem is he isnt the player he once was, hence the ongoing chatter about the great man...

my opinion for what it’s worth, is that he still has a massive part to play BUT its not in holding midfield. He needs to play further forward for less minutes and fewer games. Then I think we'll get the best out of him in his advancing years

Just to add from my point, if Brendan decides that holding midfield is his future, I fear for his last couple of seasons at liverpool

Again, this is a point I've been making, he needs to change his captaincy "style".
He wants to be picked, he probably thinks he should be should be picked, and if he is not on form then he needs to bring real captaincy to the team.
In fairness, I've seen him being more vocal, but he needs to do more.

I'd also point out that if BR dropped him based on his form, this place would probably implode.

He is an introvert he cant change his personality its just not him.
I have said for a while what this team really needs is a real leader of men a Souness type it would really give us some toughness as I think we are an easy touch physically

He is an introvert he cant change his personality its just not him.
I have said for a while what this team really needs is a real leader of men a Souness type it would really give us some toughness as I think we are an easy touch physically

Except he has, hasn't he.
At various times during his career, he's become very animated, waving his arms, gee'ing the rest of the team up.
Then there's his captains speech before we left the field after beating city last season.
That shows he CAN do it, but most of the time, he doesn't.

Except he has, hasn't he.
At various times during his career, he's become very animated, waving his arms, gee'ing the rest of the team up.
Then there's his captains speech before we left the field after beating city last season.
That shows he CAN do it, but most of the time, he doesn't.

But he only does it when there is some form of hope (e.g. Istanbul at 3-1 down). He's led excellently over the years by example but that's when he seemed to give a sh*t. When the going gets tough, Stevie G goes hiding under his rock. That's my main concern with him. Then you've got carra who screams at his team mates for conceding a goal despite being 3 or 4 to the good. What Walton said is completely true. Our kids need to toughen up but we haven't anyone there to give them that know how. Shame.

Apologies for the late reply Swab, been flat out working. I must say that was an excellent post.

I understand what you are saying with regards to Gerrard modifying his captaincy style but in all honesty i fear he is mentally drained. Over the past decade he has seen the likes of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard leave the Club. I think last Season really took a toll on him, we were so close and i think he knew this was his last chance at the Big One.

Every time we acquire a world class talent and we start to build something they move on, for whatever reason, usually a lack of investment or the old buy to sell.

It's alright asking Gerrard to modify his captaincy style but there's an old saying. No matter how many times you polish a turd it is still a turd. Gerrard is surrounded by players that are well below his level, not all of them, but most of them. After selling Suarez the biggest name we signed was Lallana.

I haven't got anything against Lallana, i think he's a good player and will come good hopefully.

My point is that if you sell one of the best players in the World and can only muster a couple of Southampton players and Mario Balotelli then that doesn't really say a lot for the Club's ambition.

Every time Gerrard gets close to that League, somebody pulls the rug and i think it's got to him. If any player in the world deserves a Premier League medal it is Gerrard. The best midfielder in this country for a long time and the best in the world for a while too.

There are many people who are answerable at Liverpool Football Club, Gerrard is not one of them. As you said, he'll always be a Legend to every supporter.

If he doesn't get a League winners medal then it won't be through any fault of his own, it will be the fault of the business men who invest or spunk our income on sh*te.

+1

Excellent.

Again, this is a point I've been making, he needs to change his captaincy "style".
He wants to be picked, he probably thinks he should be should be picked, and if he is not on form then he needs to bring real captaincy to the team.
In fairness, I've seen him being more vocal, but he needs to do more.

I'd also point out that if BR dropped him based on his form, this place would probably implode.

Swab,  I've read and respected your posting on these boards and for most of the time I've agreed with them.but on this occasion mate, your wrong imo,

Why should Stevie have to change his style of captaincy,  it has carried him thru the seasons good and not so good,
Stevie has never been the most vocal of leaders he had people like Carra to do that for him,
We fans can only read of the type of things he does off field in regards to encouraging / mentoring the young lads at lfc, nobody sees the things he does on a day to day basis at melwood etc,

I find it ridiculous that some folk in these pages are so disrespectful after all this lad has given this club, and continues to do so,
He is at the autumn of his career and of course he's not the player of old, but if Brendan thinks he's worthy of playing who are we to argue,  I do think tho that Brendan needs to play him less and ease in  other players that won't rock the boat too much,
Stevie can still influence a game even tho he's not as mobile these days, but he still has his brain,  He still has that killer pass in him, and if I'm honest there ain't to many that can,

I hope he signs another contract, I hope that contract is for two years,  I hope we come out of this sticky patch and we can all enjoy the remainder of this living legend's career,  I think next season will be his last imo, I think he'll bow out Carra style,  even if he's only playing for a hour or brought on late in a game,

It will be a sad day when it happens but, when he walks off the Anfield pitch that last time there won't be many dry eyes in the house,

Steven Gerrard = LEGEND - forever

YNWA

Apologies for the late reply Swab, been flat out working. I must say that was an excellent post.

I understand what you are saying with regards to Gerrard modifying his captaincy style but in all honesty i fear he is mentally drained. Over the past decade he has seen the likes of Alonso, Torres and Gerrard leave the Club. I think last Season really took a toll on him, we were so close and i think he knew this was his last chance at the Big One.

Every time we acquire a world class talent and we start to build something they move on, for whatever reason, usually a lack of investment or the old buy to sell.

It's alright asking Gerrard to modify his captaincy style but there's an old saying. No matter how many times you polish a turd it is still a turd. Gerrard is surrounded by players that are well below his level, not all of them, but most of them. After selling Suarez the biggest name we signed was Lallana.

I haven't got anything against Lallana, i think he's a good player and will come good hopefully.

My point is that if you sell one of the best players in the World and can only muster a couple of Southampton players and Mario Balotelli then that doesn't really say a lot for the Club's ambition.

Every time Gerrard gets close to that League, somebody pulls the rug and i think it's got to him. If any player in the world deserves a Premier League medal it is Gerrard. The best midfielder in this country for a long time and the best in the world for a while too.

There are many people who are answerable at Liverpool Football Club, Gerrard is not one of them. As you said, he'll always be a Legend to every supporter.

If he doesn't get a League winners medal then it won't be through any fault of his own, it will be the fault of the business men who invest or spunk our income on sh*te.

Great shout but that doesn’t address the issues he is having this season.

His form this year isnt his fault at all as its about his role in the team in my opinion, but if you’re right he is mentally drained and thats affecting his captaincy and his football then he should be hanging the boots up!

Would like to see his role within the team reduced & I would love to see his role in the management of the team increase, this kid is destined to be our manager.

The hunger to win a Trophy that has eluded him in his playing career could spur him on to win it with us as a manager.

Time for your coaching badges skipper.