"We Need To Talk About Gerrard."

Still one of the few remaining players in our squad that can change the game with a swing of his right peg.

But its actually a lot harder for him, when he's busting a gut, drained from 15 years of football, and having to play so deep, out of his naturally best position.

I think BR's understanding of central midfield is lacking a little. But I wont fall into the Yanksters trap of blaming the manager for their financial shystering. They pocketed the Summer income(again) and they refused to let him spend on the obvious need to fill gaps.

I mean even little Cardiff bought a fairly good anchorman from S America. All we did was sell Shelvey. And others.

Still one of the few remaining players in our squad that can change the game with a swing of his right peg.

Don't think hes got up to speed so far this season, but there's no-one else of similar quality to come in and replace him.

And when was the last time he turned a game around, he's fading all the time, it's sad to see, but more importantly its bad for the team.

Bloody hell why is it so hard for you guys to believe that a player might not want to come to this club, neither Mkhitaryan or Willian wanted to come to us, irrespetive of how much money we threw at them. The one which is puzzling though is Eriksen, I do not understand why we didn't try to sign him.

Are they the only two midfielders available.
Obviously those two subsequently chose Champions League Football over LFC.
That doesn't mean they were the only players looked at.

I'm sure there are plenty of quality midfielders that aren't being offered Champions League Football.
That doesn't mean they'll cost any less.

People are quick to point to Eriksen at Spurs.
Why not look at how much the rest of their midfield cost.
I'd much rather Paulinho or Lamela than Eriksen.
There's two players that went to a non CL team.
Cost 20 - 30 Million though.

More fans saying that lack of CL means we can't attract players.
Lack of £££ means we can't attract players.

More fans saying that lack of CL means we can't attract players.
Lack of £££ means we can't attract players.

Maybe more accurately an unwillingness (justifiably or not considering some of our more expensive signings recently) to spend £££ is the problem, but yeah, I agree with you.

I am also of the opinion we need another central midfielder. I think we lack mobility and strength in the middle and that's something that could be addressed with a player in the Fellaini/Yaya Toure mold.

Maybe more accurately an unwillingness (justifiably or not considering some of our more expensive signings recently) to spend £££ is the problem, but yeah, I agree with you.

Right, JH would tell us buying the Boston Globe press is a better investment. He might get at least 50% return when he sells the damn press in a few years. He is definitely bigger than the club.

Responding just to the OP.

I am glad someone has finally had the bollox to post this topic. Stevie has been poor (to say the least), his long passing game has dropped and they are not finding the targets as often but the worst thing for me in the last few games is that he is now losing the ball in possession AND giving the ball away. This isnt the SG we all know and love. I hope this is just a poor run of form and not the end. I would drop him for a few games and yes I would put Allen in instead.

Right, JH would tell us buying the Boston Globe press is a better investment. He might get at least 50% return when he sells the damn press in a few years. He is definitely bigger than the club.

Well his ego  and capacity for bullshit are.

I was saying to a work mate yesterday, could not help but notice the facial expression, that Steve does not look very happy, when out on the pitch. My mate said it was from years of carrying the side.

I was saying to a work mate yesterday, could not help but notice the facial expression, that Steve does not look very happy, when out on the pitch. My mate said it was from years of carrying the side.

I think it's 2 things;
He's physically not right,
He doesn't like being so far from the action.

Don't see the big deal really. Gerrard only struggled in the 2nd half against Southampton IMO.

The actual problem is why our DMs sit so far deep, Gerrard needs to get that licence again to close the gap between midfield and attack.

Don't see the big deal really. Gerrard only struggled in the 2nd half against Southampton IMO.

The actual problem is why our DMs sit so far deep, Gerrard needs to get that licence again to close the gap between midfield and attack.

It's a nice idea, but in my opinion he's not physically right, and he'd last no time at all if he had to put in some sprints.
He hasn't done any sprinting for at least the last couple of games, and is just jogging around.

still think Stevie is way down the list of problems

We need to talk about Gerrard? We sure do.

I read a lot of delusion or pure denial in these pages perfectly seen in the first reply to si's OP. Disappointed in him last night from the first bit of action he was involved in. Had the option to retain possession following a United attack and decided to just boot it up field as though we were playing out the clock. I don't think his mentality these last few games has been anything near good enough and he has shown a certain amount of arrogance. I thought his performance against Southampton was appalling, contantly losing the ball, having the movement of a statue and constantly pulling out the long, Hollywood balls Roy Hodgson loves telling him to do which merely showed how little he cared about persevering with a proper bit of possession. He is 'undroppable' and that is the problem. People think just because his name is Gerrard then he deserves a starting place. How wrong could that be? No one is bigger than the club, not even the captain. I totally disagreed with the other thread here that suggested Lucas was holding us back. Sorry to say but that is completely wrong. All our eyes should be directed to his partner alongside him. Gerrard is no longer one of our top 5 players, let alone our only top player as he was for many times. Lucas, Mignolet, Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge are all far more important to the team than Gerrard now. If Gerrard loses his X Factor....then what purpose does he serve?

In an ideal world, where everyone is fit, I would bench him (it's not going to happen I know) and try Allen alongside Lucas. Allen could consolidate possession but it would rely on pressing high so that Lucas and Allen are in close proximity to Coutinho the creator.

Lucas the retriever, Allen the consolidator, Coutinho the creator, Suarez/Sturridge the scorers. It's a fluid and united set up. Henderson for me would play alongside Lucas, pressing and trying to retrieve the ball. Would also serve as a second 'source point' for Allen or Coutinho to receive the ball from. Lot's of emphasis on Johnson and Enrique supporting play as they usually do from wing back. Would expect Lucas and Henderson to do covering work if both were high up the field when the ball is lost.

I can understand the argument about him not playing Stevie as much as he is due to his age, I've believed for a long time now his twilight years need managing better by the manager be it for us or England. All too often he's out there even when we've been strolling to victory (back end of last year), playing the full ninety odd minutes. BR seems hell bent that Gerrard, if fit enough and however he's playing can't be subbed and this is a massive flaw on the manager's side for me.

As for his current form, I think he's being harshly judged by some. I think back to the start of last season where he really was struggling for form and he indeed went through that bad patch and came out proving many wrong (including me at that time). Last season behind Suarez he was arguably our best performer if you take the season as a whole.

This season for me he's only really played what I would class as poor in the Southampton game, last night he wasn't at his best but I wouldn't say he was poor either. It's very interesting to me that these two performances that our captain seems to be taking a bit of the brunt of, came immediately after the international break. I can't stress enough how much I wish he'd retire from international football, it would benefit both him and us. Sadly because of the World Cup next year this won't happen till the 2014/15 season.

As for his position in the midfield when Coutinho is in the side and playing the link role between midfield and attack I see why Stevie is playing a deeper role, but when Coutinho comes out for me you've got to push Gerrard further up the park.   

Fair enough.

I don't expect to see you post back in here then.

But I think it may be, or already is, a big problem.

It is a big problem and the time has come for him to hang up his England boots and serve his club .

Some great posts here from both sides and maybe this thread and Micks should have been one but I started this one to balance things a little and also because I think that Gerrard is seen as untouchable by many and even the mere hint at questioning his role in the side is greeted with the usual 'Have you forgot what he's done for us' nonsense.

Like I've said in this thread it doesn't neccessarily have to be Gerrard who misses out in midfield, I just happen to think that it is the next move we should try, but both him and Lucas have shown for a few games now, second half Swansea onwards, that the energy and blend isn't quite right.

In response to the posts that Allen is no good for us and shouldn't replace Gerrard I think it's worth a try for at least one game as he has mre energy and mobility then Stevie and in my opinion can link up with Lucas and the midfield player ahead of him and offer more balance to the midfield. No one would argue that Allen is an all round better footballer than Gerrard but at this moment in time he might well be the better fit for our team.

Gerrard and Henderson is another option with Stevie taking the Lucas role and Henderson being more like a box to box player but in this scenario we need a proper creative player ahead of them and while Alberto could be that player he is relatively untested but definitely an option worth considering.

In the "golden era", players were often phased out quite abruptly at 30/31 or so.
Stevie's game was always built around dynamic bursts, so I felt he would fade early. Even if played far up the pitch.

Actually playing him deep is the worst thing that could be done in many ways.

I wonder if he should have been sold to aslower placed league for big money at say 31? Its one big name sale I wouldn't have complained about IF the cash was reinvested fairly.

If Stevie's career is to last long, he has to be played like Giggs at the Mancs. By that, I mean given lots of rest, and as part of the squad. THAT way, players can last longer.

Finally, I wonder, how happy is Stevie. Alongside Suarez, I'd say he's the ONLY true winner in the squad. Maybe Agger, (Reina was), maybe Sturridge/Countinho will be at some pt in the future.

But he knows today, we probably wont win anything. The "club" (or rather, management) exists soley to make money. After all the standing his ground he did in 2005 etc, it must be pretty disheartening for him just having to go thro the motions ...

In the "golden era", players were often phased out quite abruptly at 30/31 or so.
Stevie's game was always built around dynamic bursts, so I felt he would fade early. Even if played far up the pitch.

Actually playing him deep is the worst thing that could be done in many ways.

I wonder if he should have been sold to aslower placed league for big money at say 31? Its one big name sale I wouldn't have complained about IF the cash was reinvested fairly.

If Stevie's career is to last long, he has to be played like Giggs at the Mancs. By that, I mean given lots of rest, and as part of the squad. THAT way, players can last longer.

Finally, I wonder, how happy is Stevie. Alongside Suarez, I'd say he's the ONLY true winner in the squad. Maybe Agger, (Reina was), maybe Sturridge/Countinho will be at some pt in the future.

But he knows today, we probably wont win anything. The "club" (or rather, management) exists soley to make money. After all the standing his ground he did in 2005 etc, it must be pretty disheartening for him just having to go thro the motions ...

Indeed, when Rafa spoke about Gerrard in his latter years he often talked about him as a forward.
Sometimes I think we'd be better off with Gerrard in the forward role, but I do still have concerns
about his ability to put his foot through the ball.

Indeed, when Rafa spoke about Gerrard in his latter years he often talked about him as a forward.
Sometimes I think we'd be better off with Gerrard in the forward role, but I do still have concerns
about his ability to put his foot through the ball.

Gerrad seems ok putting cross field balls through but not putting in a screamer, I agree I would like to see him behind the striker as he was with Torres, Hendo needs to be given a chance alongside Lucas to make a real go for that central position as he can learn how to ghost in on goal.

Very much confident , our Captain will be at his best pretty soon , He is having an out of form period IMO, like every player have from time to time
 If he is to be rested ,or change position on the field thats for BR and the medical staff  knows what the real situation is
 I think with Coutinho out we are losing quality behind the strikers, , stevie and lucas are to much deep defensivly , sometimes they are in line with the CB
  Thus,hoping for a veru much better run than the last 3 games starting from next saturday


 YNWA

The one which is puzzling though is Eriksen, I do not understand why we didn't try to sign him.

Because we might have got him?

Gerrad seems ok putting cross field balls through but not putting in a screamer, I agree I would like to see him behind the striker as he was with Torres, Hendo needs to be given a chance alongside Lucas to make a real go for that central position as he can learn how to ghost in on goal.

Watch him mate.
He clips the ball even on cross field passes.
I've been going on about it for ages, and its only since his groin/adductor injury that he does this.

Watch him mate.
He clips the ball even on cross field passes.
I've been going on about it for ages, and its only since his groin/adductor injury that he does this.

Partly why I think he is sitting back more and forcing Lucas a bit out if position.

I think Gerrard is genuinely worried about injuring himself.