Ivan Rakitic (Sevilla)

Several rumors link us (and several other big english clubs as well) with Sevilla's captain and playmaker Rakitic we were already linked with last summer, and who now seem decided to leave the club.

While I can't say if he can justify the huge price tag of 40m euros Sevilla is said to be asking, the 25 years old midfielder definitively looks like a very interesting recruit according to his stats (won't pretend I know him well, as the rare occasions where I see him play are when Sevilla is getting a beating against Real or Barca ). He had 8 goals and 10 assists last season (and already 7 assists and 5 goals this one) and was first in chances created in la Liga last year (not a small performance competing with C.Ronaldo and Messi), and for his number of accurate crosses per game as well (surprising for a central midfielder).

Looks like an interesting recruit, be it to offer competition to Coutinho or Henderson, or in hope he can replace Gerrard for long term.

Anyone who follow Sevilla / Croatia to give a less stats based opinion ?

( http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-liverpool-transfer-target-2939934 ,  http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/449397/Man-Utd-Liverpool-and-Chelsea-target-Ivan-Rakitic-grows-frustrated-at-Sevilla etc... ).

Yes, please.  He's an absolutely cracking player.  By the way he wouldn't be providing competition for Coutinho as he's not an AM but a CM.  Would be more competition for Gerrard, he's already light years above Henderson.

Would absolutely love him here.  But 40m?  That's absurd, presumably it's just his buyout clause.  If he could be gotten for 20m it would be a decent price, anything more than that wouldn't be worth it IMO.  Maybe send Aspas their way in exchange to knock a bit off the price?

Yes, please.  He's an absolutely cracking player. 

Would absolutely love him here.

But 40m?  That's absurd, presumably it's just his buyout clause. 

If he could be gotten for 20m it would be a decent price, anything more than that wouldn't be worth it IMO. 

Make up your bloody mind.

I hate when people start a post with " He's a cracking player, I'd love him here" then in the next paragraph start saying they'd only buy them for such and such a fee.

He's either a 'cracking player' or he's not.

You love us to sign him or you wouldn't.

He's either a 'cracking player' or he's not.

Well, cracking isn't a discrete mathematical term with an end and a beginning.  You also have to take into account that we're not big spenders.  If the question were simply "would you like Rakitic here in principle," then the answer is yes, 100%, sign him tomorrow.  But CM isn't the only place we need strengthening.  We also need a DM, a left-sided attacker, etc.  So if the question is rephrased as "Would you like Rakitic, for £25m, if the entire Janury budget is £26m," then the answer is no, because it means we wouldn't get M'vila or another DM or Konoplyanka or another LW etc. 

Hell, yes. Been a fan since the Euros 2008. Back then I saw him more as an attacking midfielder/wide player, but with the passing of the years he's developed into more of an all round midfielder. I haven't seen much of him this season but I saw enough in the past to convince me he would be a quality buy. Would be excited if this rumour turned out to be true.

Make up your bloody mind.

I hate when people start a post with " He's a cracking player, I'd love him here" then in the next paragraph start saying they'd only buy them for such and such a fee.

He's either a 'cracking player' or he's not.

You love us to sign him or you wouldn't.

You can think somebody is a "cracking player" whilst also putting a suitable price tag on them. I think Zabaleta is a great player but would I want us to spend £30m on him? No.

Well in that case Carroll would have been a great signing for a Fiver!

but would I want us to spend £30m on him? No.

Why mcarz? Is he not a cracking player? Would he not enhance our team? Why would you be upset if FSG chose to spend £30m on him?

Surely it doesn't matter if a player is £30m or £3m. I rephrase that - Surely it doesn't matter (to anyone other than our accountants) if a player is £30m or £3m. FSG won't spend any amount (£3m or £30m) if the club can’t afford it.

I haven't seen anywhere near enough, of him, to say how good or bad he is but if he's not good enough, to improve us, then we shouldn't be looking to sign him for any money.

Buying him just because he was 'cheap' would be F***ing daft. So... don't worry about the cost: is he good enough or not? 

Why mcarz? Is he not a cracking player? Would he not enhance our team? Why would you be upset if FSG chose to spend £30m on him?

Surely it doesn't matter if a player is £30m or £3m. I rephrase that - Surely it doesn't matter (to anyone other than our accountants) if a player is £30m or £3m. FSG won't spend any amount (£3m or £30m) if the club can’t afford it.

I haven't seen anywhere near enough, of him, to say how good or bad he is but if he's not good enough, to improve us, then we shouldn't be looking to sign him for any money.

Buying him just because he was 'cheap' would be F***ing daft. So... don't worry about the cost: is he good enough or not? 

Get your point, but we don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend, as we are only going to spend money generated by the club.

If our squad was filled-out with quality players, and we were only looking to sign one or two new faces, then your point would be totally valid.

I think what a few people are saying is that he is a good player, could improve us, but not if it meant we couldn't strengthen other areas at the same time.

There's probably only a handful of players worth taking the risk of blowing our entire transfer budget on, and I imagine in the current market, that budget may well not even suffice!

I think what a few people are saying is that he is a good player, could improve us, but not if it meant we couldn't strengthen other areas at the same time.

Oh I get that alright Ayrton and always have but the thing is; as fans, we have to have some level of trust that the people 'above us' will know a) how much money is available, b) what areas need strengthened and c) what's best for the team.

It's a fact that FSG will not spend what (they don't believe) the club can afford. Therefore, It's not my concern, as a fan, how much they spend on a particular player - if they think he's worth it and we can afford it: it'll be spent.

As a fan, I'm way more concerned that we would miss out on a better player because he's deemed too expensive and then settle for second (or third) choice just because he's cheaper. As a fan I'm more concerned about what a player can bring to my team than how much he'll cost.

It would be a different matter if I; a) knew how much our budget was and b) what other player we would definitely be losing out on should we sign player X for Y amount. In my opinion, without knowing what the opportunity cost of signing a particular player is, it's a daft thing to worry about.

Each to their own tho', I suppose; if people want to speculate about 'what if's' or 'but maybe's' and play armchair accountants with an imagined budget (which ain't theirs)... fair enough. 

Each to their own tho', I suppose; if people want to speculate about 'what if's' or 'but maybe's' and play armchair accountants with an imagined budget (which ain't theirs)... fair enough.

Agree completely, just been reading a fair few times recently people stating things in a very black and white manner, which, in terms of a limited budget, just doesn't sound right to me.

Agree completely, just been reading a fair few times recently people stating things in a very black and white manner, which, in terms of a limited budget, just doesn't sound right to me.

Just like people saying we should only sign player X, if he cost less than Y amount because we might, might miss out on er... another player (who we haven't a clue even exists, never mind how much he'll cost) doesn't sound right to me. 

Truth is; my mind will never change on this so I'm going to offer an 'agree to disagree'. Oh and a Merry Christmas. 

we have to have some level of trust that the people 'above us' will know a) how much money is available, b) what areas need strengthened and c) what's best for the team.

Why? We don't have to have some level of trust; some do, some don't. Just like some trust the managers, while others don't...

Why? We don't have to have some level of trust

You wouldn't be arguing just for the sake of it Diego?

Hmm... So, if I've got this right - we don't have to have...  a level trust that those who control the purse strings [accountants] know how much money is available; no level of trust that Brendan knows what areas need strengthening and no level of trust that neither Brendan or FSG know what's best for the team? But...

'We' trust ourselves to know "better", than them, how the money should be spent... even tho' we don't know how much that money is?

Brilliant.   

I guess 'one' has to have a level of trust simply because 'one' really (when it boils down to it) knows a lot less than those above them. What 'level' that trust comes in at is up for debate but the fact that we need "a level" isn't, in my opinion, of course.

An opinion that I'm not asking you to agree with by the way. If you or anyone else don't trust Brendan or FSG to know how much we've got and who to spend it on fair enough. 

I guess 'one' has to have a level of trust simply because 'one' really (when it boils down to it) knows a lot less than those above them.

I just think you're being selective about what can and can't be debated. Yes, others at the club know better; just like they know better why Rodgers picked player A instead of player B, why FSG sacked manager A and appointed manager B, but it's discussed nonetheless, lots of things are assumed and asserted with near certainty despite the fact there's no inside information... but apparently it can't be discussed how much money we do have to spend. People make assumptions based on experience - and you, as a FSG critic, probably agrees that it's unlikely we'll spend a shitload of money in January - so that they can judge the club's activities. What a surprise.

I just think you're being selective about what can and can't be debated.

I've never said it shouldn't be debated - to suggest otherwise is a lie - I've only ever offered a counter opinion. An opinion which, weirdly enough, has lead to debate. What a surprise; eh?

You feel that the cost is more worthy of debate than me that's fair enough. I'll stick with whether he's [player X] good enough then worry if we miss out because we couldn't afford him... not worry about who we might miss out on if we don't sign player X. I can't see why my opinion annoys you so much.

I'll agree to disagree... just like I said earlier.

That said, if someone tells me that £30m for Rakitic because he's not good enough they'll get no debate from me: I don't pretend to know enough about him to argue.

you, as a FSG critic, probably agrees that it's unlikely we'll spend a shitload of money in January - so that they can judge the club's activities. What a surprise.

Yet you, as a fan of FSG, don't trust them to spend only what the club can afford. 

I guess I trust them, on some level, more than you. Crazy or what? 

That said, if someone tells me that £30m for Rakitic because he's not good enough they'll get no debate from me

That would make sense Mouse but when someone says he's an absolutely cracking player and would love them here then starts debating the price when they have no real idea what we have to spend, what he's really worth and ignores the fact FSG stated they will not spend if they don't think a player is worth it, then it sounds ridiculous.

Each to their own but if I think a player is a cracking player and would love him here I couldn't give a flying F**k how much FSG spend to get him here as they have proved they will not spend what we can't afford.

I'll stick with whether he's [player X] good enough then worry if we miss out because we couldn't afford him... not worry about who we might miss out on if we don't sign player X. I can't see why my opinion annoys you so much.

And I think excluding what economists call 'cost of opportunity' from any decision making process is either lazy or naive. Some things are intrinsically good but at such a cost that you can get better. Your opinion doesn't annoy me, your pedantry does - re-read your previous reply with laughs and sarcasm and it won't be difficult to see why. 

Yet you, as a fan of FSG, don't trust them to spend only what the club can afford.

I don't know if not buying into the forum paranoia makes me "a fan of FSG", but even if you can call me that, I can't see how it implies blind faith. And more to the point, when people discuss transfer fees it rarely means a worry about the club spending more than it can afford - usually they are interested in seeing the club making the best possible decisions (ie, signing the best players we possibly can), and as a fan I worry about all the decisions the club makes at every level. Besides, I have faith in the manager but will discuss his selections and substitutions, so to suggest that debating a certain decision means lack of faith is stretching things a little bit.

And I think excluding what economists call 'cost of opportunity' from any decision making process is either lazy or naive.

Sorry for being a pedant (again) but "Opportunity cost" only really works if you know a) how much you have to spend and b) what your alternatives are. Do you know either? 

Edit: "Opportunity Cost", for those who may not know - an example: You have £3.50 in your pocket. You are debating whether to spend it on either a pint of beer or a £3 scratch card. You chose the pint. The "opportunity cost" of you buying the beer is the thing you have forgone; i.e. the scratch card.

And more to the point, when people discuss transfer fees it rarely means a worry about the club spending more than it can afford - usually they are interested in seeing the club making the best possible decisions (ie, signing the best players we possibly can), and as a fan I worry about all the decisions the club makes at every level.

Good man. 

Like I said earlier, (if you re-read the post)... I have no problem with anyone not wanting the manager/Club to spend the Club's money on a player because they believe he's not good enough [or there is better]. Which is what you are now saying but... more to the point: wasn't what was actually being discussed when you 'joined in' (if you re-read the posts).

The 'problem' (really only a difference of opinion) lies where someone says he's good enough but "they" wouldn't pay more than X amount for him - which was what was being discussed when you chose to 'join in'. It's not their money. They don't have to pay any amount. Therefore telling us how much they would or would not pay (although a 'fun' game) is irrelevant. It's really very simple.

The 'problem' (really only a difference of opinion) lies where someone says he's good enough but "they" wouldn't pay more than X amount for him. It's not their money. They don't have to pay any amount. Therefore telling us how much they would or would not pay (although a 'fun' game) is irrelevant. It's really very simple.

Indeed and it really is that simple.

You rate a player, you think he's fantastic so just come out and say you'd love it if we sign him.

What that player costs is irrevelvant to us football fans as from my point of view I just want the club to be buying good players. It's even more irrelevant under FSG as they have said and proven that they will not waste the clubs money and only spend what we generate.

So even if your are one to be worried how much X player would cost and if he's even worth it FSG have let you off from worrying about it so just go back to being a football fan and less of an accountant.

Anyway back to Raktic and I've no idea if I'd like him here or not and it's nothing to do with money as I've not seen him play, and if I have I can't rememeber him.

F**k me what a load of pointless bickering haven't you got anything better to do?
Have you got all your crimbo pressies in already or what??

Rakitic would be fantastic playerfor us imo as i've said plenty of times in the Winter Transfer topic

No i wouldn't expect FSG to spend £30 million on him not when they believe they can get him for less
That's good mangement so fair play to them.

If Brendan does fancy him & i can't see why he wouldn't we'll buy him & it will be next month..

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/media-watch/metro-reds-scout-rakitic

Looks like €40m by-out clause. If he's actually available for £7m we should absolutely jump on him. He's probably worth twice that.

If I remember rightly the buy out clauses only really apply to Spanish Clubs, its a necessity in their contracts.

Can't see this deal happening, we have from what ive heard agreed to sign Fernando Reges from Porto.We surely don't need any more midfielders after this?

Can't see this deal happening, we have from what ive heard agreed to sign Fernando Reges from Porto.We surely don't need any more midfielders after this?

have you actually watched us play at all this season?  our midfield has been on the whole extremely poor, down to a man.  Stevie has been poor except for a few games, culminating in that stinker at Everton.  Lucas has been his usual post-injury self, too slow, poor in his passing, etc. 

And for the umpteenth time, quantity does not equal quality.  If we had 10 Poulsens, would you say "we don't need any more midfielders"?  of course not, because 10 sh*te players are still 10 sh*te players.  We need BETTER players, not just more of them.  Reges has the potential to challenge Lucas for his spot in the team.  Rakitic has the potential to challenge Stevie for his spot in the team.  We need long term improvements in both positions.  So yes, we absolutely do need more (better) midfielders. 

Reports in today's Mirror we are in for him.
Hope so think he would be a great buy especially below £10 mill

Definetly worth the gamble at ten million. Versatile across the midfield as he can play a number of roles has technical ability in abundance and an eye for a pass, great from dead ball situations too. My only complaint is his speed he never was the quickest player even when used out wide at Basel and Schalke I guess through experience he has developed an ability to make up for the lack of pace by being an excellent reader of the game though.

Was just reading in the Croatian paper where he was very coy about his future saying something along the lines of "only being focused on the next game but ail that's changed at Sevilla and they are no longer in contention for titles so anything can happen".

Sorry for being a pedant (again) but "Opportunity cost" only really works if you know a) how much you have to spend and b) what your alternatives are. Do you know either?

I don't, that's why I said people make assumptions to discuss them. That isn't the only subject where people make assumptions to debate what's happening at the club though, even if apparently it's the only one where they're often rejected or the fact you need assumptions is seen as impossibility to rationalize and discuss. (example: Rodolfo Borrell's sacking - even with next to zero inside information, the thread already had a few pages and many theories to explain it)

By the way, I was keeping out of this thread cause I didn't want to get into an argument with someone I like in Christmas time
To sum it up, I agree it's a difference of opinion, for in my opinion "relevance" has very little importance for what's done in this forum - basically all we do here is pretty much irrelevant to the decisions the club actually makes, even if I consider most of them worthy of debate. After all, it's not my money being used on transfers, just like absolutely nothing else on the club belongs to me so I don't really see the point of going down that road.

have you actually watched us play at all this season?  our midfield has been on the whole extremely poor, down to a man.  Stevie has been poor except for a few games, culminating in that stinker at Everton.  Lucas has been his usual post-injury self, too slow, poor in his passing, etc. 

And for the umpteenth time, quantity does not equal quality.  If we had 10 Poulsens, would you say "we don't need any more midfielders"?  of course not, because 10 sh*te players are still 10 sh*te players.  We need BETTER players, not just more of them.  Reges has the potential to challenge Lucas for his spot in the team.  Rakitic has the potential to challenge Stevie for his spot in the team.  We need long term improvements in both positions.  So yes, we absolutely do need more (better) midfielders. 

We need midfielders now , not potentials to challenge . Our team is dwindling before our eyes and after the game today we could have more injuries to deal with . We bought some deadly sh*te in the summer lets hope our targets this time are the real deal .

Reports in today's Mirror we are in for him.
Hope so think he would be a great buy especially below £10 mill

If we got him for that little I would do a mighty jig.

We need midfielders now , not potentials to challenge.

alright, forgive me for being tactful.  You want the non-sugarcoated version?

Neither of Reges or Rakitic will be "potential" challengers to Lucas or Rakitic.

Because the harsh truth is that Reges is better than Lucas and Rakitic is better than Stevie at this point in his career.

so, there you go.

Rodgers may have the bollocks to bench Lucas but I doubt he's got them to bench Stevie, no matter how poor he's been of late.

By the way, I was keeping out of this thread cause I didn't want to get into an argument with someone I like in Christmas time

Merry Christmas mate. 

alright, forgive me for being tactful.  You want the non-sugarcoated version?

Neither of Reges or Rakitic will be "potential" challengers to Lucas or Rakitic.

Because the harsh truth is that Reges is better than Lucas and Rakitic is better than Stevie at this point in his career.

so, there you go.

Rodgers may have the bollocks to bench Lucas but I doubt he's got them to bench Stevie, no matter how poor he's been of late.

You should get your cv into the club , John Henry might give you the shout if Rodgers doesn't work out .

alright, forgive me for being tactful.  You want the non-sugarcoated version?

Neither of Reges or Rakitic will be "potential" challengers to Lucas or Rakitic.

Because the harsh truth is that Reges is better than Lucas and Rakitic is better than Stevie at this point in his career.

so, there you go.

Rodgers may have the bollocks to bench Lucas but I doubt he's got them to bench Stevie, no matter how poor he's been of late.

How much of Reges and Rakitic have you seen? Honest question that.

How much of Reges and Rakitic have you seen? Honest question that.

You expect any answer other than bullshit Red5man?

You expect any answer other than bullshit Red5man?

Fair enough, I was hoping not because I'm curious.

How much of Reges and Rakitic have you seen? Honest question that.

He hasn't time to answer you , too busy watching LA Liga  . I wonder how he finds time for our poor little club .

Watched a couple of Croatia's qualifiers. The 2-0 home win v Serbia stands out. Had a cracking performance. I'd be content with him. Probably get him for around £15-20m. The €40m is a buy-out clause, but he's valued at about half that. Sevilla would take that for sure. I guess it's down to where he wants to go, i.e. who offers him the best contract.

One thing in our favor, he's already used to wearing crap Warrior kits

How much of Reges and Rakitic have you seen? Honest question that.

Only saw this just now.  When I heard we were interested in Reges I went and watched four of Porto's CL matches this season to get a look at him.  As for Rakitic, last summer when we bid for Diego Costa I watched a bunch of games with him, three of which were against Sevilla.  Over the last couple of weeks, I've watched a handful more Sevilla games specifically keeping an eye on Rakitic, if you're interested the Real Madrid game where they beat Sevilla 7-3 is a cracking match to watch, despite Sevilla losing Rakitic was pure class.

So about 5 or so games for both of them.  Is that enough for you?  I'm not going to go and watch all 38 league games just to watch a player we might not even sign, FFS.

I'm not going to go and watch all 38 league games just to watch a player we might not even sign, FFS.

i F***ing did this in the summer, downloaded 10 full games and over 15 highlights to watch gaston ramirez, and we didnt even sign him.

i f**king did this in the summer, downloaded 10 full games and over 15 highlights to watch gaston ramirez, and we didnt even sign him.

Silly Billy !

A goal and an assist last night in Sevilla's 3-0 win.

8 goals and 8 assists for the season, 18 month left on his contract, stalling on signing a new deal and United fans want him too, we should be all in for this one.

i f**king did this in the summer, downloaded 10 full games and over 15 highlights to watch gaston ramirez, and we didnt even sign him.

Happy to say I got Gaston all wrong. Has been a bit of a dud signing for them.

Its great to be in a position where players would rather come to us than Old Toilet.

Its great to be in a position where players would rather come to us than Old Toilet.

A top four club or a mid table club with Moyes? I'd pick us aswell 

Happy to say I got Gaston all wrong. Has been a bit of a dud signing for them.

I  agree, but he looked like a good player with bologna. so i was in sign him camp but watching him now days make me glad that we didnt.

I  agree, but he looked like a good player with bologna. so i was in sign him camp but watching him now days make me glad that we didnt.

I am always wary of players who look good in Serie A as totally different pace and style to our game - and some would argue quality.

I'm sure many can counter with a list of successes but recent (and sometimes spectacular) flops include Aqua, Lamela, Borini (?), Dossena, Veron, Shevchenko, Osvaldo, Crespo, Ramirez, Bianchi, Poulson, Savio, Jovetic

I am always wary of players who look good in Serie A as totally different pace and style to our game - and some would argue quality.

I'm sure many can counter with a list of successes but recent (and sometimes spectacular) flops include Aqua, Lamela, Borini (?), Dossena, Veron, Shevchenko, Osvaldo, Crespo, Ramirez, Bianchi, Poulson, Savio, Jovetic

The short answer of my rebuttal would be - i disagree.

Dossena, Poulsen, Ramirez and Bianchi were just bad purchases. Aquilani was injured half his time here but everyone could see he had quality. By the end of his injury troubles he just wanted to leave the club.

Savio was a teenager, Lamela and Jovetic haven't even played to be called flops.

What about Ibrahimovic, Sanchez, Balotelli, Cavani, Lavezzi, COUTINHO, Thiago Silva, Sirigu, Diego Forlan etc. etc.

What about Ibrahimovic, Sanchez, Balotelli, Cavani, Lavezzi, COUTINHO, Thiago Silva, Sirigu, Diego Forlan etc. etc.

What about them? Haven't set the premiership alight as far as I can remember? - which is the point I was making. If I was supporting a team in France, Italy or Spain then perhaps I would be less wary of signing Serie A players for huge sums of money - for the examples you have highlighted!

Coutinho is the obvious exception - and like I said at the start someone can always come up with a list of non-flops.

I would be unhappy if I was spurs fan and spent 30m on someone who hasn't played. Unfortunately for him (and players like Aqua) they do not set their own price tag but half way through a season I would consider my 30m record signing a flop if had the impact Lamela has had so far (especially if we are all accepted that Feillani is a flop). 'He hasn't played enough to be a flop' is a contradiction in my opinion - same goes for Jovetic. (Who BTW I would've liked to have had a punt on here but you have to wonder why he can't get a kick at the moment)

And BTW - I am a particularly huge fan of Sanchez and would be interesting to see if he could make it in the premiership (especially with us!) but I think the boat has sailed on that one now with him getting more and more game time at barca - 12 months ago might've been different though

Bianchi is a good example - I was in the crowd when City were away to a championship side in one of the cups (League cup I think) and he absolutely bossed the game scoring an absolute stunner to win it. I know the championship is a step down in class - but the major point is for these players is that is was a gear or two down on pace as well which let him absolutely run things - he just simply couldn't have the same impact in the prem.

No arguments on the quality.

Same with Aqua IMO oodles of talent, just couldn't show it in the prem

I don't know if Rakitic is the right player for us. I know nothing about him. But we do need someone to take over the CM position from Stevie. Like now.  As much as I hate to say it, SG's best days are behind him. He can still be used as a squad player, or even fill the Lucas role very effectively. But the box to box dynanicism has gone. And we all want someone who can do now what Stevie used to do week in week out. ..

We need midfielders now , not potentials to challenge . Our team is dwindling before our eyes and after the game today we could have more injuries to deal with . We bought some deadly sh*te in the summer lets hope our targets this time are the real deal .

Agreed but in fairness, I think that's what he meant. When he talks of "potentially challenging" he means insofar as if he plays as well for us as he does for his current team. Cou can play a perfect pass and Hendo is a great athelete but neither of them are any use in front of goal and that's what we need right now.

What about them? Haven't set the premiership alight as far as I can remember? - which is the point I was making. If I was supporting a team in France, Italy or Spain then perhaps I would be less wary of signing Serie A players for huge sums of money - for the examples you have highlighted!

Coutinho is the obvious exception - and like I said at the start someone can always come up with a list of non-flops.

I would be unhappy if I was spurs fan and spent 30m on someone who hasn't played. Unfortunately for him (and players like Aqua) they do not set their own price tag but half way through a season I would consider my 30m record signing a flop if had the impact Lamela has had so far (especially if we are all accepted that Feillani is a flop). 'He hasn't played enough to be a flop' is a contradiction in my opinion - same goes for Jovetic. (Who BTW I would've liked to have had a punt on here but you have to wonder why he can't get a kick at the moment)

And BTW - I am a particularly huge fan of Sanchez and would be interesting to see if he could make it in the premiership (especially with us!) but I think the boat has sailed on that one now with him getting more and more game time at barca - 12 months ago might've been different though

Jovetic can't get a punt because he's injured - and has been since he arrived except for a very short period.

Misread your post thinking Series A players were sh*t wherever they went so apologies for that. But i'd take a punt on a lot of the players in Serie A. Arturo Vidal would be superb in our midfield for example.

But this is off topic so…IVAN RAKITIC!

This would make up for missing Eriksen last summer.

But this is off topic so…IVAN RAKITIC!

I  think this is more exciting and perhaps more needed than Salah - but not sure about the £33m being banded around this morning!

To be completely honest, despite watching lots of La Liga, I don't know enough about the lad to be sure if we should pursue or not. Is that because he goes about his business quietly - or simply because Sevilla are hardly ever shown (unless playing Barca or Real of course!)

Anyone an expert on La Liga (or croatian football) that can add some real insight?!

'He hasn't played enough to be a flop' is a contradiction in my opinion - same goes for Jovetic. (Who BTW I would've liked to have had a punt on here but you have to wonder why he can't get a kick at the moment)

Injury and illness are the main reasons he has barely played.

Injury and illness are the main reasons he has barely played.

Pellegrini interview yesterday;

Pellegrini still has faith in Jovetic and believes he has the ability to play a key role for the club.

However, the City manager has admitted that if the problems continue he may start to lose patience, challenging the 24-year-old to demonstrate that he has the desire to return to action.


"It is very difficult to know with Jovetic," said Pellegrini, quoted in the Sunday Mirror. "But I believe what the player says and if he says he has a muscle problem I'm absolutely sure he has a muscle problem.

- Seems more to it to me?

"It's impossible for the players to be 100 per cent for every game, but there are different degrees of injuries. I am optimistic.

"At the end of the season, maybe I change my opinion. But at the moment, I continue trusting him."


Anyway enough of that - Rakitic anyone?!?

atm, this is the best option in terms of midfielder. So i would think we should push this one hard. unless we get slim chance to sign Mata.

I have this feeling that since we've been linked to him, he's scored in every game cause every time I see La Liga's highlights show he seems to have scored or at least assisted a goal

His father just came out in the Croatian paper saying that he will be "the highest or one of the highest transferered players in the history of Croatian football". If we are to take any notice Madrid got Modric for 30m or so if that is the range we are looking it then I think it's a safe bet to rule us out paying that much for him.

Perhaps PSG or even the Scum could be tabling offers within that range allready.

Don't think the Mata business will hold things up for us, as I don't think FSG are prepared to pay the fee and the wages he will demand. Need to push on with this one now, although I won't be holding my breath.

Don't think the Mata business will hold things up for us, as I don't think FSG are prepared to pay the fee and the wages he will demand. Need to push on with this one now, although I won't be holding my breath.

I dont think we are after mata, and we havent even being linked to him as far as i know. has there been a trustable source linking us to mata at all? There is just wishfull thinking from our part. I unerstand why tho, mata is incredible player. cant see him joining us because of his wages and chelsea wont sell to us.
I honestly think that now other teams like chelsea see us their rivals now.

I'm baffled at how the Mata talk seems to rumble on. Absolutely no chance, no chance at all they sell him to a rival. Only event it would or could ever happen would be as part exchange in a bid for Luis.

If Mata goes it will be to a European side.

Absolutely no chance, no chance at all they sell him to a rival.

We thought that with Torres though . Chelsea actually do quite a bit of business with their rivals though, been deals with both Arsenal and us over the years so I wouldn't rule it out completely on that basis.

We thought that with Torres though . Chelsea actually do quite a bit of business with their rivals though, been deals with both Arsenal and us over the years so I wouldn't rule it out completely on that basis.

Yeah well that was us doing the selling! I can't recall Chelsea ever flogging one of their better players to a rival. They have bought a few over the years ie. Torres, Gallas, tried to get Rooney but can you think of anyone going the other way? I think the chances of us getting Mata are out of the stratosphere meself

I can't recall Chelsea ever flogging one of their better players to a rival.

Sturridge . They were just too stupid to realise he had the ability to easily be one of their best players and was their best striker after Drogba left.

Doh! What an idiot! Can't see em making the same mistake again though! Not with Maureen there, he might be a toss pot but he's brighter than most.

Yeah well that was us doing the selling! I can't recall Chelsea ever flogging one of their better players to a rival. They have bought a few over the years ie. Torres, Gallas, tried to get Rooney but can you think of anyone going the other way? I think the chances of us getting Mata are out of the stratosphere meself

But if Mata can hardly get a game, they obviously don't consider him to be one of their better players.

But if Mata can hardly get a game, they obviously don't consider him to be one of their better players.

But they know he is a top quality player who would improve any of their rivals were he to end up there, he was Their player of the year last year, an ever present in the team and a fan favourite. I don't think he's coming anywhere near us. I k ow they let Sturridge go but he was always a bit part player who was never quite trusted to do it at Chelsea. I don't see comparisons with Mata and Maureen is no fool, I don't even think he would have let us have Sturridge had he been at Chelsea tbh.i know Mata isn't getting a game there at the moment, the same applies for De Bruyne who is another quality player. Admittedly they have a ridiculous amount of talent in midfield with Oscar, Hazzard and Willian getting the nod at the moment.

I know there's no reason to believe we would be in for him anyway, but if we did want to pay the price, and the wage demands. If the player really, really wanted to play for us, is there a lot the chavs could do to prevent it ? Freedom of movement etc. I really don't have a clue,  does anyone have an honest answer, and not just speculation and suggestion, but a real answer?

I know there's no reason to believe we would be in for him anyway, but if we did want to pay the price, and the wage demands. If the player really, really wanted to play for us, is there a lot the chavs could do to prevent it ? Freedom of movement etc. I really don't have a clue,  does anyone have an honest answer, and not just speculation and suggestion, but a real answer?

I believe is Mata submitted a transfer request and Chelsea accepted it, then he has freedom of movement, then we'd just have to agree a fee with Chelsea.

If we bid for Mata without a transfer request being accepted, then Chelsea can simply and keep on rejecting our bid's as freedom of movement doesn't come into it.

I believe is Mata submitted a transfer request and Chelsea accepted it, then he has freedom of movement, then we'd just have to agree a fee with Chelsea.

Not so sure Daz as they can accept his request but still sell to whoever they want and if they reject our offer and accept one from the likes of Athletico, for example, then it's extremely likely Mata will move anyway.

Not so sure Daz as they can accept his request but still sell to whoever tehy want and if they reject our offer for example and accept one from the likes of Athletico, for example, then it's extremely likely Mata will move anyway.

Once they accept a transfer request mate it grants freedom of movement, thats why Torres and Meireles were both told they'd have to submit requests,

Once they accept a transfer request mate it grants freedom of movement, thats why Torres and Meireles were both told they'd have to submit requests,

But surely if there are two or three offers to Chelsea they can choose which to accept and which not to?

But surely if there are two or three offers to Chelsea they can choose which to accept and which not to?

But if the player didn't want that particular move, then what ?

But surely if there are two or three offers to Chelsea they can choose which to accept and which not to?

Not really mate if there's three matching bids then its the players right to choose where he wish's to continue his career, the player can dig his heels in and say I have no desire to play for that club, leaving the club in the dillema of having accepted a transfer request then refusing him freedom of movement.

has anyone seen a single article in the media from a reliable source linking mata to us? - NO
have chelsea sold any of their best players to EPL rivals? - NO

so why do people keep going on about mata coming to us?

come on get real its just total and ridiculous self delusion

has anyone seen a single article in the media from a reliable source linking mata to us? - NO
have chelsea sold any of their best players to EPL rivals? - NO

Wrong - Sturridge, they've also loaned out Lukaku, when you compare those 2 strikers to the strikers currently at the club, then yes they have.

Is this comparable to Mata? Yes because Sturridge and Lukaku were simply lower down the pecking order, more so in the example of Sturridge as Lukaku may have some internal problems too... oh Mata has them too! So he ticks both those boxes.

have chelsea sold any of their best players to EPL rivals? - NO

See above with Sturridge.

so why do people keep going on about mata coming to us?

Because he would be the perfect type of player we need, he appears available and he's shown interest in joining us before (we got Downing instead unfortunately).

come on get real its just total and ridiculous self delusion

An over-exaggeration in my opinion, while I would agree it is highly unlikely money has the power to make unlikely things happen. That is the bigger obstacle in my opinion. I feel if we were to offer £30m for him, he'd be running out for us in February.

An over-exaggeration in my opinion, while I would agree it is highly unlikely money has the power to make unlikely things happen. That is the bigger obstacle in my opinion. I feel if we were to offer £30m for him, he'd be running out for us in February.

Agreed,

Anyone think we've got the balls or the dosh to bid £30 million for Mata? Must admit that might turn a head or two if we were to go in that high but I'm struggling to see it.

Also, this freedom of movement rule is pretty crap wouldn't you all say? Seems about as effective and water tight as Platini's bullshi....t financial fairplay rules.

Think that's enough Mata talk for this thread. Unless of course he has changed his name to Ivan Rakitic.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that this has become the unofficial Mata thread?! Meanwhile the official one has got locked!

I think it's a symptom of our lack of movement In The transfer window thus far. We are bored!

Am I the only one who finds it funny that this has become the unofficial Mata thread?! Meanwhile the official one has got locked!

I think it's a symptom of our lack of movement In The transfer window thus far. We are bored!

Your not wrong mate I'm bored shitless,come on FSG get that Fooking chequebook out:-(

Really think this is one of our most ideal targets at the moment, with Gerrard stating that he will be playing the holding role much more often like today, I cant see Rodgers sticking with Lucas-Henderson partnership and although Allen could do a job in that more advanced role I feel Rakitic would be perfect for us, creative midfielder who can do a job defensively but also offers a lot of goals and assits (10 goals and 12 assists in 29 games soo far this season), possibly between £10-15million, I think he is ideal for us.

Mata is pie in the sky if he does leave Chelsea for another prem club it won't be to us.
It will be to Utd as part of a deal to take Rooney to Chelsea.

Rakitic is a much more realistic target for Liverpool & imo a player we need more than Mata.

Not that i wouldn't love Mata of course i would he's a fabulous player but it ain't happening.

atm, i would throw 30m on the table for Rakitic. im sure Sevilla will consider it.

atm, i would throw 30m on the table for Rakitic. im sure Sevilla will consider it.

Do it, he'd be a good start for your team. As for us, if we're not willing to spend £11m on Salah there's no way we've got £30m sitting around.

Do it, he'd be a good start for your team. As for us, if we're not willing to spend £11m on Salah there's no way we've got £30m sitting around.

Makes you wonder how much cash we've actually got doesn't it? I hope we where trying to get Salah on the cheap because we could potentially sign somebody else but I'm not too optimistic. Trying to sign De Jong on a free sort of answers that!

Please god tell me we've got more that 9 million to spend!

Makes you wonder how much cash we've actually got doesn't it? I hope we where trying to get Salah on the cheap because we could potentially sign somebody else but I'm not too optimistic. Trying to sign De Jong on a free sort of answers that!

Please god tell me we've got more that 9 million to spend!

The indications are we've got F**k all to spend.
That's not say the dosh isn't there, it's location is irrelevant because it's staying right there.
There will be no outgoings to supplement what FSG consider an adequate squad.
To reiterate 'the indications are we've got F**k all to spend on additional players which in the judgement of some are surplus to requirements.'

If we couldn't match £11m for Salah, I don't see us getting anyone of any class, as that seems to be the minimum price for a quality player. Rakitic aint gonna happen in my opinion.