Steven Gerrard - his new role. Good for him, us or neither?

As he is a veteran midfielder I don't buy the notion that Stevie will have to "get his head around the DM role" because he knows the game inside-out and has periodically played deeper in midfield and knows what is required of him.

When I look at the form and functionality of the hendo/Lucas/Allen midfield a la 0-5 thumping of spurs, I say let them rule the roost and see where it takes us. And, while we're at it, why not acquire another very good midfielder to challenge them for a starting berth, and hold our captain to the exact same standard?

We were getting bossed in midfield yesterday. The 3 of Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson has been overrun by several midfields already this season. Maybe, MAYBE if Lucas is replaced with Allen, Gerrard as the deepest could work. But against counter attacking teams and teams with true number 10s we will struggle, as he just doesn't have the legs he once did nor does he have the awareness to sniff out danger consistently.

I think against some of the lesser teams he'll be fine there, especially at Anfield. Astute managers will look to expose his positioning if he becomes a regular in that role.

No doubt having Stevie play the Lucas role is a risk that Brendan is willing to take. Will it pay off? only more games will tell.
The only way I see working is with Allen playing alongside him, which means there is no starting place for Lucas!

Personally thought he played O.K. there, nothing special and a bit of a liability at times, but it was his first time in the role for us.

After watching Gerrard these years I've never thought he had the mental discipline, nor the positional sense to play the role consistently. His greatest assets are all offensive, he hurts the opposition the most by causing trouble in their half, not by disrupting play in our half.

The point about a defensive midfielder having the ability to pass the ball being an asset is of course fair but Gerrard's consistency with his passing has fallen this season. I've seen him misplace more passes this year than I've ever seen him, that is a quality you can't afford in a DM. Losing possession just in front of your CBs and starting the counter attack for the opposition while half of your team is on the wrong foot can very often cost you a goal and why those who keep possession very well are best suited for the role.

I also think Stevie gets drawn to the ball far too much to have the discipline to play there, you need to watch runners as much as break down play, you can't get drawn to the wide areas unless you're going to shut them down and I think that's a problem we'll have if we persist with Stevie there. We most certainly will lose his presence in the opposition half and I think that's part of the motivating factor behind this, because we're losing this through nature now anyway. It's a case of adapt to survive for Stevie and I personally don't think it's a position his aging legs and poor positioning will succeed.

I do think you have a point about Lucas being 4th choice now in Brendan's plans and going forward I can easily see him being the one to make way.

It's a strange one because the balance in our side actually looked the best when Stevie wasn't in it and as taboo as it might be I think that would be the best way forward if Henderson could actually reproduce the form he showed in those few games. At this present time though I honestly don't believe any of our central midfielders are consistently top notch and all of them could quite easily be replaced. Keeping Stevie in the side has merit for everything he's given to the club but what price will we actually pay for such sentiment?

Agree with pretty much all of this Luke. Think SG did OK yest but would not be raving about it. Maybe he can grow into the role, but as you said his strengths have always been offensive. I'm a massive fan of SG, but the period where he was out of the team was an eyeopener. Think he offers more than Lucas in that def role, much better range of passing etc. but I think we still need to be spend some bucks and bring in someone dynamic to fill that role longer term.

No doubt having Stevie play the Lucas role is a risk that Brendan is willing to take. Will it pay off? only more games will tell.
The only way I see working is with Allen playing alongside him, which means there is no starting place for Lucas!

I've seen similar comments pop up everytime this kind of discussion happens. I don't understand why some are so happy to play another player to do the work that one can no longer do. Phrase that how you like, often heard Henderson is in there to be the legs that Stevie no longer has.

This is where I revert to Lucas and my belief that he's the best at what he does for our club at the moment. I would like nothing more than someone brought in who can do the job much better than Lucas and demote him to the bench, force him to force his way back into the side. But playing Stevie there and then supplementing him with players who can do work he can no longer do just seems a strange way of building a side.

You wouldn't play Aspas as striker then put in Luis to score his goals for him would ya, just sounds ludicrous, but because it's Stevie it's fine to accept there's work he can't do in the role he's asked to do. Should be no excuses made for anyone unless we're playing testimonials, do the job, do it well or get dropped whoever you are.

Gerrard in that role may work against stoke and teams like them, but against the better teams we will get ripped to shreds in the middle.

I've seen similar comments pop up everytime this kind of discussion happens. I don't understand why some are so happy to play another player to do the work that one can no longer do. Phrase that how you like, often heard Henderson is in there to be the legs that Stevie no longer has.

This is where I revert to Lucas and my belief that he's the best at what he does for our club at the moment. I would like nothing more than someone brought in who can do the job much better than Lucas and demote him to the bench, force him to force his way back into the side. But playing Stevie there and then supplementing him with players who can do work he can no longer do just seems a strange way of building a side.

You wouldn't play Aspas as striker then put in Luis to score his goals for him would ya, just sounds ludicrous, but because it's Stevie it's fine to accept there's work he can't do in the role he's asked to do. Should be no excuses made for anyone unless we're playing testimonials, do the job, do it well or get dropped whoever you are.

I hear what you are saying but it seems like BR is not going to drop Gerrard. Maybe the fact that he has been the heartbeat of the club for so long and obviously still commands huge respect in the dressing room outweighs his shortcomings.

Myself personally I think there should be place for Stevie and if BR wants him on the pitch for 90mins then realistically the only place for him is the DM position. If nothing else will be interesting to see how the project pans out.

Gerrard in that role may work against stoke and teams like them, but against the better teams we will get ripped to shreds in the middle.

As long Gerrard keeps his discipline, I know easier said than done for him and with a couple of dynamo's next to him - Allen and Henderson it could work.

Reading through this thread it does feel like a lot of conclusion jumping. Stevie is an intelligent player with vast experience, give him a few games and he will adapt his game. Yesterday's match wasn't as bad as many are claiming and I thought it was a mixture, some good, some not so good. We saw a great covering tackle in The box, some other good clean block tackles and one truly fantastic pass into space for Johnson to run onto.

I think Brendan may have looked at a couple of factors. Firstly, our midfield three dont have the fitness and mobility that is required to play the pressing game he wants. That means you can't really play with both Stevie and Lucas. We're simply not quick enough with both of them in there and we run into trouble when we lose the ball high up the pitch and opposition teams get us turned. So then you compare the two players and ask what do you need the most from your DM? Do you swap Gerrards passing ability and strength for Lucas's bullishness and natural defensive instincts? I think maybe the answer is yes, at least for Brendan at the moment. I look at our rivals and I can't see that too many of them employ a DM who plays purely as a spoiler in the way that Lucas does for us. City have had Toure play the role at times over the years and now they have Ferndinho, both good ball players. Arsenal have Flamini this season (when he is fit) but he is a good player and when he isn't in the side they have Arteta do the job. United won the title with Carrick in the role last season, Chelsea have the dynamic Ramires who also offers a great deal more than simply breaking up play the way Makalele did it for many years.

Maybe Stevie can do the job that Carrick did for the mancs last season? Particularly if we can add a special player to play in front of him, ideally someone with pace, mobility and power, a bit of an old school box to box player (ring any bells!)

Also, it's worth pointing out that Gerrard has been playing this role for England for two years now and he has been England's most consistent player in that time, a class apart in fact. It's worth trying for me, particularly in home matches where there is less need for an out an out spoiler in the middle.

I've seen similar comments pop up everytime this kind of discussion happens. I don't understand why some are so happy to play another player to do the work that one can no longer do. Phrase that how you like, often heard Henderson is in there to be the legs that Stevie no longer has.

This is where I revert to Lucas and my belief that he's the best at what he does for our club at the moment. I would like nothing more than someone brought in who can do the job much better than Lucas and demote him to the bench, force him to force his way back into the side. But playing Stevie there and then supplementing him with players who can do work he can no longer do just seems a strange way of building a side.

You wouldn't play Aspas as striker then put in Luis to score his goals for him would ya, just sounds ludicrous, but because it's Stevie it's fine to accept there's work he can't do in the role he's asked to do. Should be no excuses made for anyone unless we're playing testimonials, do the job, do it well or get dropped whoever you are.

Ah, OK, I think I misunderstood the jist of your previous post Luke, to some extent. I did agree with your points about Stevie and the concerns about him in the more withdrawn role, but looks like you'd have Lucas in the holding role ahead of SG, and I guess even taking those points on board, I'm still the other side of that fence.
Deffo a worthwhile exercise by BR to give him a shot there, and though yest there was hesitation in the middle that led to some misplaced passes etc. between the midfield lads (not just SG btw), still reckon he was decent in the air, and had see a better range of pass from that position. If he can learn the discipline, could work.
But it's still a medium term solution, and we really need to be trawling for someone for the longer term.

I am not quite sure a 5000m race by a 50yo can be compared to premiership football,  but you would want a roaming player to be able to offer something on the counter attack.  Gerrard passing ability more than makes up for any pace loss, the problem is... we don't want to go 5 at the back.  There is no point having a play maker in CB. Might as well have him DM. We need a new DM anyway, or like I said,  used sparingly at AM.

What I'm getting at is you may not be able to run a short distance very fast, but you may be able to run a longer distance at a reasonable pace. I felt that was obvious, but I guess not.

Thus if Gerrard has not "got the legs for AM" he may actually have the legs for "a roaming role".

It would not be 5 at the back as Gerrard would "roam" into midfield and beyond including the left and right, that is a liquid roll, or free agent.

If he is going to be used "sparingly" then I guess he is not a first choice player, so does he resign from being club captain?

Reading through this thread it does feel like a lot of conclusion jumping. Stevie is an intelligent player with vast experience, give him a few games and he will adapt his game. Yesterday's match wasn't as bad as many are claiming and I thought it was a mixture, some good, some not so good. We saw a great covering tackle in The box, some other good clean block tackles and one truly fantastic pass into space for Johnson to run onto.

I think Brendan may have looked at a couple of factors. Firstly, our midfield three dont have the fitness and mobility that is required to play the pressing game he wants. That means you can't really play with both Stevie and Lucas. We're simply not quick enough with both of them in there and we run into trouble when we lose the ball high up the pitch and opposition teams get us turned. So then you compare the two players and ask what do you need the most from your DM? Do you swap Gerrards passing ability and strength for Lucas's bullishness and natural defensive instincts? I think maybe the answer is yes, at least for Brendan at the moment. I look at our rivals and I can't see that too many of them employ a DM who plays purely as a spoiler in the way that Lucas does for us. City have had Toure play the role at times over the years and now they have Ferndinho, both good ball players. Arsenal have Flamini this season (when he is fit) but he is a good player and when he isn't in the side they have Arteta do the job. United won the title with Carrick in the role last season, Chelsea have the dynamic Ramires who also offers a great deal more than simply breaking up play the way Makalele did it for many years.

Maybe Stevie can do the job that Carrick did for the mancs last season? Particularly if we can add a special player to play in front of him, ideally someone with pace, mobility and power, a bit of an old school box to box player (ring any bells!)

Also, it's worth pointing out that Gerrard has been playing this role for England for two years now and he has been England's most consistent player in that time, a class apart in fact. It's worth trying for me, particularly in home matches where there is less need for an out an out spoiler in the middle.

Good post.

Gerrard, is my favourite player! He is 33 years old going towards 34. Building a team to suit Stevie or even fashioning a system to favour him is ludicrous. He is not a DM against good opposition. He is better played further forward in my opinion.
He should be used like Lampard is ...... to get goals. That is what we need. He can still strike a ball well and he is a goalscorer. He needs to focus on this.

Should we be heading into 2014 wondering where we should play Steven Gerrard?

If Stevie is played further forward, he needs 60 mins tops. He won't sustain the effort needed there for the rest of the season. He certainly doesn't offer us anything extra playing d m. In fact I think we've performed better without him, as other players are not in awe of him, and then play their own game. Henderson and Stirling have played much better without Stevie in the side. Don't quite know what the answer is, but he certainly doesn't have the same impact on a game from back there.

Reading through this thread it does feel like a lot of conclusion jumping. Stevie is an intelligent player with vast experience, give him a few games and he will adapt his game. Yesterday's match wasn't as bad as many are claiming and I thought it was a mixture, some good, some not so good. We saw a great covering tackle in The box, some other good clean block tackles and one truly fantastic pass into space for Johnson to run onto.

I think Brendan may have looked at a couple of factors. Firstly, our midfield three dont have the fitness and mobility that is required to play the pressing game he wants. That means you can't really play with both Stevie and Lucas. We're simply not quick enough with both of them in there and we run into trouble when we lose the ball high up the pitch and opposition teams get us turned. So then you compare the two players and ask what do you need the most from your DM? Do you swap Gerrards passing ability and strength for Lucas's bullishness and natural defensive instincts? I think maybe the answer is yes, at least for Brendan at the moment. I look at our rivals and I can't see that too many of them employ a DM who plays purely as a spoiler in the way that Lucas does for us. City have had Toure play the role at times over the years and now they have Ferndinho, both good ball players. Arsenal have Flamini this season (when he is fit) but he is a good player and when he isn't in the side they have Arteta do the job. United won the title with Carrick in the role last season, Chelsea have the dynamic Ramires who also offers a great deal more than simply breaking up play the way Makalele did it for many years.

Maybe Stevie can do the job that Carrick did for the mancs last season? Particularly if we can add a special player to play in front of him, ideally someone with pace, mobility and power, a bit of an old school box to box player (ring any bells!)

Also, it's worth pointing out that Gerrard has been playing this role for England for two years now and he has been England's most consistent player in that time, a class apart in fact. It's worth trying for me, particularly in home matches where there is less need for an out an out spoiler in the middle.

Okay, I've been thinking about this and regardless that it is a good post, and that I myself would think it better if Stevie dropped deeper rather than pushed higher I'm still unsure in my heart of hearts as to whether this will benefit the team. Perhaps you can convince me that my initial feeling is right seeing as you advocate, or at least argue this point in favour of Gerrard playing deeper.

I believe many fans have been conditioned to think that it is essential a midfield must play with a specialised DM. I certainly don't. However, Scottbot I think that we play with such fluidity and commit more numbers going forward these days that a specialised DM would actually compliment this system. Now, I'm not saying Lucas is the answer here because I believe a more mobile DM is needed for this system anyway but I'm not sure Gerrard is mobile enough and even if he is I think Lucas reads the game better there.

I think Gerrard plays that role there for England very well, as you pointed out which is another reason I initially thought Gerrard would be able to do it well for Liverpool. But look at the way Hodgson sets up England, they have NO fluidity, they don't commit numbers forward. They play a deeper lying game and are very rigid in their formation. Totally contrasting to the way we play, which can leave Gerrard exposed on the break and emphasise his own lack of...eh pace or mobility perhaps when he's faced with an oncoming attack etc.

Also, international football is slower than hell for leather premier league football and will place more demands on Gerrard to that international football doesn't.

I think (and I know it sounds contradictory) that Gerrard is better suited to a deeper role, certainly than he is in a forward role where to be fair we have an abundance of good options to choose from anyway. But the same can't be said of our options in a deeper role and Gerrard has the ability to play that role IMO but due to the nature of our attacking game combined with his legs it could leave us exposed.

As a short term move it could be an option. On the long term basis it's a no go area. Unlike some I wasn't impressed with Gerrard's performance against Stoke. He gave away quite a few balls through some careless and lack lustre passing on the ground and did not quench much of, if any of Stoke's attacks. It's helpless saying 'he does it for England'. He has no other option to play that way given Roy Hodgson's fairly regressive philosophy. If we're allowing his stature to get in the way of a better person who could come in and do a better job (unfortunately I can't confidently say that isn't Brendan's thinking) then its going to be totally destructive to our long term ambitions if we vainly try to get Stevie to relive his glory years at the expense of the whole team. Like others have said on this thread, the only option I see is that he is phased out on to the bench and that he contributes from there doing what he has always done in an attacking sense.

I think it's fantastic for him and for us, personaly. People seem to have this idea that we're turning him into a defensive midfielder and that it won't be necessary since we have Lucas. Or I'm seeing that over facebook anyway. I don't think this is what's happening at all. I think he's being turned into the teams 'quarterback' as it were. Picking the ball up and starting attacks as opposed to breaking them up like Lucas. I don't think we're trying to accommodate him in the side simply because he's Steven Gerrard, I think there's a plan in place, a certain player that Rodgers is after and the only one with the qualities to do it is Stevie. He doesn't have the legs anymore to be a box to box midfielder - we have Hendo for that now! But his range of passing is supremely ridiculous. He's going to get the ball midway in our own half and unleash 60 yard raking cross field passes to our on rushing full backs, (remember Gerrard ball to Sturridge against Sunderland for Suarez first goal after his suspension?) or into space for Suarez and co to run into etc. He's going to pull all the strings in midfield whilst holding a stern deep line. We're not going to be turning him into a Lucas or a Makelele style defensive midfielder. We're going to turn Steven Gerrard into an Andrea Pirlo-esque midfielder and I think it's going to suit us and him down to the ground! He said himself in the post match interview he'll need to work at it, and will need a little time to adapt his game, which would explain why he wasn't quite at the races against Stoke. But he'll get it quickly, and I'm really looking forward to us play when he's got it down.

As long Gerrard keeps his discipline, I know easier said than done for him and with a couple of dynamo's next to him - Allen and Henderson it could work.

Couple of problems here really.

Gerrard is a great player, but he has always had a tendency to follow the ball, and drift out of position. If Rafa couldn't fix this, I don't see how he can realistically change now.

BR doesn't play a flat midfield 3, he plays a staggered 3, like this:

                                                               CM 1
                                                                      CM 2
                                                            CM 3
Besides that, a player, any player, who needs others to share his workload really shouldn't be playing every game, simply because it takes something away from those who have to help him out.
No passengers, every player pulls his weight in every part of his position that requires it.

I can see the sense in Gerrard "Quarterbacking" the team but he needs all other aspects of that position working as well.

"Good for him?" Yes, without doubt; it'll extend his playing time. "Good for us?" Don't know; too small a sample to say for sure and shipping three goals isn't exactly an auspicious start.

In my opinion - if Stevie is to play a defensive role (which demands covering a lot of lateral ground) and the play-maker role; he'll need an awful lot of 'energy' around him. At the moment that 'energy' would be (for me) Henderson & Allen. A word of caution tho' - again only an opinion but we might lose out on the new found freedom both lads enjoyed if, every time they get the ball, they start looking for the 'play-maker' again.

Only time will tell, I guess. 

I know it's only January, but it does seem a bit of a crucial time in the season to start having players adapt to new roles and formations, especially with us sitting in fourth.

We're in a position where we may push on and start pressing for the top spot; equally, we may also slip back into the chasing pack if we're not careful.

With all the respect due to a player of Gerrard's stature, I don't want to take the risk of him struggling for the next 5-10 matches getting up to speed. I can't see the point of jeopardising our current position.

With Lucas still struggling after his return from injury, this more feels to me like we aren't ready to stump up the transfer fee for M'Vila.

I think its good for him, as it perhaps allows him to play 90 minutes in every game, but for the club, only really based on one performance I didn't like it, he is probably the best in the world at pinging them balls forward with pin-point accuracy but I don't think he can do a job defensively, arguably at fault for Charlie Adam's goal and from what I remember he could have been better positioned to stop Jonny Walters' goals also.

Me personally I would only use him as a backup, I think we are in dire need of a proper defensive mid, perhaps M'Vila, so if somebody comes in I can just see Gerrard at his normal centre mid role, albeit playing deeper than Henderson/Lucas.

Also another thing to point out, when Gerrard was injured this brought out the best in Henderson, we seen him open up a lot more, would get much further forward an would almost chase the ball round the pitch putting players under constant pressure and often winning the ball, it seems when Gerrard is in the team Henderson doesnt have the same threat, maybe because he has to be more positionally aware, so hopefully a consistent class defensive mid would also help him out to some degree also.

Quick question to all those advocating this as a good idea, what is the point in having a fluid, attacking, possession based style of playing then have Gerrard sat in front of the cb's playing long balls over the top?

Am I being too simplistic? 

I understand counter attack can be effective but Brendan hasn't spent the last 18 months training the players to be comfortable on the ball, to recycle possession, to bring in technically gifted players if he wanted us playing a different style.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Quick question to all those advocating this as a good idea, what is the point in having a fluid, attacking, possession based style of playing then have Gerrard sat in front of the cb's playing long balls over the top?

Am I being too simplistic? 

I understand counter attack can be effective but Brendan hasn't spent the last 18 months training the players to be comfortable on the ball, to recycle possession, to bring in technically gifted players if he wanted us playing a different style.

Doesn't make sense to me.

I think that Brendan sees Gerrard being able to doth both Debs. Both the simple pass and then the ability to hit a long pass to spring an early attack.

Despite reservations I've had about Gerrard in the DM role I can see the managers thinking here.