Adam Lallana (End of contract, BHA)

No it's not the same at all, in all probability he would have scored if he turned and ran, he'd have been clear of the defence not level with it and he'd have had a clear view of goal not just a turn and snap shot. The fact you can't understand the difference is why you're struggling to understand it.

I'm not struggling to understand anything. If he had turned before the ball arrived he would not have been "clear of the defence". Their entire back line was between him and the goal, with one defender in particular picking him up. He'd only have had a "clear view of goal" if that defender had gone for a snooze. His turn took the defender out of the game and put Lallana in behind their defence.
You are bending over backwards to have a pop at him.

Somewhere on tinternet is footage of that moment, but any search for it is likely gonna just  turn up his goal. Maybe somebody's got it and can put it up here? Anyway, I remember it clearly enough, it was a good bit of play.

I'm not struggling to understand anything. If he had turned before the ball arrived he would not have been "clear of the defence".

I remember the incident very well too and you are wrong. The entire backline was not between him and the goal, he'd already found himself unmarked between defenders, if he'd turned then he would still be in between the defenders but instead of facing backwards he would have been travelling forward without the ball and able to accelerate. A through ball then would have put him "clear of the defence" because the resulting play he proved that the defence couldn't react in time to stop him even with him being able to turn. If the backline was between him and the defence as you state when he turned he would have turned into a defender.

Their entire back line was between him and the goal, with one defender in particular picking him up.

Nobody had picked him up he'd found himself between defenders in space.

His turn took the defender out of the game and put Lallana in behind their defence.

Completely incorrect, then I would be crediting him with great play.

You are bending over backwards to have a pop at him.

Wrong I thought it was wrong the moment I saw it and still do. I have no problem saying what his assets are and giving credit where it's due as I have many times with Adam already.

Somewhere on tinternet is footage of that moment, but any search for it is likely gonna just  turn up his goal. Maybe somebody's got it and can put it up here? Anyway, I remember it clearly enough, it was a good bit of play.

Went through a couple of highlight reels and they seem to ignore the incident, not trawling through to find something I remember well, it was shown better on the replay after the attempt and that's where I picked up on it.

Haha, yeah I had a look as well and couldnt find it.
Hopefully somebody'll turn it up somewhere.
It was on the ITV highlights show last night, but I never recorded it.

Fair enough TRM and I respect your view on it, I just don't agree with you on this occasion.

Haha, yeah I had a look as well and couldnt find it.
Hopefully somebody'll turn it up somewhere.
It was on the ITV highlights show last night, but I never recorded it.

Found it! Go to 0:55 in on the first video and 4:50 in the second.

http://highlights.pub/projects/bordeaux-v-liverpool-17-09-2015/

Found it! Go to 0:55 in on the first video and 4:50 in the second.

http://highlights.pub/projects/bordeaux-v-liverpool-17-09-2015/

Nice one fella, the first one is a waste of time doesn't show long enough, watch the second one from 4:59 - 5:04 and it shows how hilarious it is with his backpeddling, 5 seconds of running backwards. Anyone tries to tell me just turning around and running straight wouldn't have given him more time must be one hell of a fast backward runner!

Appreciate the effort TRM.

If you look exactly at 4:50 - 4:53 too you'll notice that he was always right in between the defenders unmarked by either.

Nice one fella, the first one is a waste of time doesn't show long enough, watch the second one from 4:59 - 5:04 and it shows how hilarious it is with his backpeddling, 5 seconds of running backwards. Anyone tries to tell me just turning around and running straight wouldn't have given him more time must be one hell of a fast backward runner!

Appreciate the effort TRM.

If you look exactly at 4:50 - 4:53 too you'll notice that he was always right in between the defenders unmarked by either.

Come on, you are being so hyper-critical. Their number 5 was goalside of him. He is a little bit to the inside, but if Lallana had turned earlier he would have no doubt stepped across. At any rate, Lallana's turn beat him, and it was a pretty decent shot as well ( better than I remembered) - keeper only just parried it for a corner.

Maybe you would have turned earlier and trusted to get in behind the number 5 with a straightforward run. Who knows, maybe that would have worked or maybe it wouldnt. But Lallana's turn did actually work - the defender wasnt sure which way he was going to go, his turn took him out, and created a good chance as a result.
You are literally slagging him for creating a good chance with a nice bit of skill.

Nice one fella, the first one is a waste of time doesn't show long enough, watch the second one from 4:59 - 5:04 and it shows how hilarious it is with his backpeddling, 5 seconds of running backwards. Anyone tries to tell me just turning around and running straight wouldn't have given him more time must be one hell of a fast backward runner!

Appreciate the effort TRM.

If you look exactly at 4:50 - 4:53 too you'll notice that he was always right in between the defenders unmarked by either.

Had he just run straight he'd have either been offside or the keeper could have come out to change the angle or close him down completely.  He did what he should have there, probably should have placed his shot a little better but the keeper was in a decent position.

Come on, you are being so hyper-critical. Their number 5 was goalside of him. He is a little bit to the inside, but if Lallana had turned earlier he would have no doubt stepped across. At any rate, Lallana's turn beat him, and it was a pretty decent shot as well ( better than I remembered) - keeper only just parried it for a corner.

Maybe you would have turned earlier and trusted to get in behind the number 5 with a straightforward run. Who knows, maybe that would have worked or maybe it wouldnt. But Lallana's turn did actually work - the defender wasnt sure which way he was going to go, his turn took him out, and created a good chance as a result.
You are literally slagging him for creating a good chance with a nice bit of skill.

Had he just run straight he'd have either been offside or the keeper could have come out to change the angle or close him down completely.  He did what he should have there, probably should have placed his shot a little better but the keeper was in a decent position.

Honestly makes me wonder if you've actually played football at anything above school level because the fact you're watching that and not realising that his actions meant he had to make the snap shot rather than having the time to place the shot or work an angle suggests you're not fully understanding of how much space he had.

He ran 20 yards backwards, the funny thing is you're actually suggesting had he ran forward he would have been offside... don't you realise that would simly be a failure of the run again? If you can't run without getting offside that's a player issue not a choice of "should I run forwards or backwards". The point is that if he was pointing in the right direction in the first place rather than having to turn/take a touch that moved him away from goal he would have had the space and time to make a more telling shot.

I'm done arguing this because it is 100% obvious in that second video on the replay that he is obsessed with receiving the ball with his back to goal so much that he would rather run backwards 20 yards than turn, if you can't see an issue with that decision making then I'm telling you that without doubt in my mind you are wrong.

As one of the more senior players, with Hendo out and with some of the others (eg. Ibe, Firmino) not firing, need Lallana to step up, show some character in matches, shoulder some of the responsibility to make sh*t happen.
The odd decent cameo is not enough, need more...

Honestly makes me wonder if you've actually played football at anything above school level because the fact you're watching that and not realising that his actions meant he had to make the snap shot rather than having the time to place the shot or work an angle suggests you're not fully understanding of how much space he had.

He ran 20 yards backwards, the funny thing is you're actually suggesting had he ran forward he would have been offside... don't you realise that would simly be a failure of the run again? If you can't run without getting offside that's a player issue not a choice of "should I run forwards or backwards". The point is that if he was pointing in the right direction in the first place rather than having to turn/take a touch that moved him away from goal he would have had the space and time to make a more telling shot.

I'm done arguing this because it is 100% obvious in that second video on the replay that he is obsessed with receiving the ball with his back to goal so much that he would rather run backwards 20 yards than turn, if you can't see an issue with that decision making then I'm telling you that without doubt in my mind you are wrong.

Using lots of words and saying we are wrong doesn't make it so, good effort on your part though.

The point for me is not that Lallana could perhaps have done better in one particular incident, it is that he needs to do better over the full 90 minutes and more often too.

I thought that apart from his wonderful goal he was poor/average the other night and has been for most of his time with us.

Obviously I (like most) thought we overpaid, but now he is here he should be judged on his performances not on his transfer fee, but even though we have been poor as a team over the past year or so he still hasn't done enough to deserve a regular first team position.   

Loves backing in to his man and turning backwards very frustrating to watch.

The F**k knows where you play Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana in the same team in my mind their best position is the CAM role and we can only accommodate one of those.

Did we pay 25m for a squad player?

Another shocking performance from the cruyuf turn specialist.
So slow in everything he does giving the opposition time to reset the defence.

So here's my question, how was he so good for Soton ( and he was, I often watched them and he was their best player) but ends up not being so good for us? Players don't just become crap overnight, even as they age.

So here's my question, how was he so good for Soton ( and he was, I often watched them and he was their best player) but ends up not being so good for us? Players don't just become crap overnight, even as they age.

He was in a well organised team, with us- it's like every man for themself.
He's a classy player and has great ball control, he does a move to open space, no one is in front of him or on the same wavelength.

So here's my question, how was he so good for Soton

2 Reasons IMO, like Downing.

1) The pressure and expectation at a club like that is nothing compared to when you play for a team like us (that should be competing, allegedly).
2) He was in good form like the rest of them but that's just it; Form is temporary, class is permanent and unfortunately for Lallana, he isn't a top class player but is a player that can look a lot better than he actually is when he is in form, he's just another player that is probably too good for an "average" team but not good enough for a "top" team.

He's not a £25mill player and that's probably what makes him seem worse than he is because had he been signed for what he is worth and what would have been paid about 10 years ago, 6-10million then it probably wouldn't seem like such a shocking transfer.

So here's my question, how was he so good for Soton ( and he was, I often watched them and he was their best player) but ends up not being so good for us? Players don't just become crap overnight, even as they age.

Bit like Lovren then?

Bit like Lovren then?

By all accounts Lovren was hopeless at Lyon as well. And he's been turd for us as well.

As for Lallana well, the only difference between him and Lovren is that he isn't a liability, just a passenger most of the time. Still he hasn't cut the mustard, like Dejan.

because Southampton were a very well drilled unit, he knew his role, everyone knew their role, everyone could excel.

we are not a well drilled unit, few know their roles, most are being shoehorned into this "system" and maybe 3 players are excelling right now, though 2 of them are probably just in a patch of confidence as they are young

honestly if we look at it neutrally and not just "we are Liverpool we spent 25 mil on a good player so why isn't he good" we can see pretty easily why he isn't performing

By all accounts Lovren was hopeless at Lyon as well. And he's been turd for us as well.

As for Lallana well, the only difference between him and Lovren is that he isn't a liability, just a passenger most of the time. Still he hasn't cut the mustard, like Dejan.

Just conveniently ignore that he was in the top 3 CB's at the conclusion of the 2013 season whilst at Southampton.

Just conveniently ignore that he was in the top 3 CB's at the conclusion of the 2013 season whilst at Southampton.

And he was in one of the top 5 CB's in Europe according to some stats compilation!

He is not and never has been a top class CB.

Just conveniently ignore that he was in the top 3 CB's at the conclusion of the 2013 season whilst at Southampton.

Well, it just goes to show then that you should never believe what's on the tin.

Still he hasn't cut the mustard, like Dejan.

Do you mean Dijon?