Let's say we finish 5th

Ok, we're a little more than a quarter of the way through the Gaffer's 3rd season. We've lost 4 games and some of our play has been appaling. I've seen some posts and read between a few lines and basically, some folk are getting very twitchy with the Gaffer.

I'm curious, if we finish 5th, does the Gaffer stay or is he shown the door in May 2015?

I'm not hiding, I've said openly enough; they are the Gaffer's tactics, this is the Gaffer's team selection, and they are the Gaffer's players, so it's primarily the Gaffer's fault. I said he would need to go.

Or do we give him a 4th season to get it right?

Just to clarify, I said gone at the end of the season, and 'if' we finish outside the Champions League. I'd even say if he manages to win a cup and finishes outside the top 4, he stays (a situation no doubt some will compare to the King's departure). I'm not saying he goes because we just lost to the Toon 0-1

So stay or gone for you?

EDIT: Also, and more importantly, what do you think John Henry will do?

EDIT 2: I'd do a poll but not sure it's possible

I think he will get the sack at the end of the season. Sooner if we drop to bottom half and linger there for a few weeks. FSG have shown before that they are ruthless.

What would sacking him achieve? He's only part of the problem. The transfer policy at the club is fundamentally broken so any new manager coming in to replace Brendan would face the same problems, i.e. an inability to sign world class players. Let's face it, we're not going to make a profit on any of the players we signed in the Summer and finishing outside the top four would reduce the transfer budget available to the new manager so there's little point in a managerial change at this point.

What would sacking him achieve? He's only part of the problem. The transfer policy at the club is fundamentally broken so any new manager coming in to replace Brendan would face the same problems, i.e. an inability to sign world class players. Let's face it, we're not going to make a profit on any of the players we signed in the Summer and finishing outside the top four would reduce the transfer budget available to the new manager so there's little point in a managerial change at this point.

Can't argue with that. There definitely seems to be too much messing about behind closed door. Perhaps we need a massive shake up in the board room too.

Can't argue with that. There definitely seems to be too much messing about behind closed door. Perhaps we need a massive shake up in the board room too.

If by the 'Boardroom' you mean the owners then I would agree. In a perfect world we'd have some rich Arab come in and make an offer they can't say no to. If you mean change Ayre as CEO (because I'm not entirely sure there's anyone else in the board room) then again that achieves nothing. The personnel aren't the problem, they're all working within too tightly confined transfer parameters. Those parameters need loosening and the way we budget for transfers changing. That doesn't mean more money (unless we're living in that perfect world), it just means a change to our approach which is currently too inflexible.

I always expected that this would be a difficult season, so even if we finish 6th or 7th I would be prepared to give him another season. What I am not prepared to do is back him if he continues to buy prospects and average players .... then I would be looking for a change of manager.

What would sacking him achieve? He's only part of the problem. The transfer policy at the club is fundamentally broken so any new manager coming in to replace Brendan would face the same problems, i.e. an inability to sign world class players. Let's face it, we're not going to make a profit on any of the players we signed in the Summer and finishing outside the top four would reduce the transfer budget available to the new manager so there's little point in a managerial change at this point.

True, the transfer policy is screwing things up for us but by the same token how many named or higher caliber players could we have attracted or missed out on due to Brendan being an unknown manager?

If we finish outside the top 5 and someone like Klopp becomes available I can see the owners getting rid.

5th?! At the moment we look like a bottom half team.

If we finished 5th and won a cup it would be almost comical to see Brendan keep his job when you think someone like Kenny didn't. Of course Brendan should keep his job if we finish 5th and win a cup but the problem is I don't see us finishing anywhere bloody near that at the moment and the longer he keeps persisting with something that isn't working is making it very hard to keep backing him.

True, the transfer policy is screwing things up for us but by the same token how many named or higher caliber players could we have attracted or missed out on due to Brendan being an unknown manager?

Probably none in all honesty. The whole concept of a 'big name manager' is overrated. You could stick a Donkey in a suit and put him in charge of Real Madrid and players are still going to be cueing up to sign for them.

If we finish 5th/6th/7th and don't win a cup, I hope Rodgers remains in charge. However it wouldn't surprise me if FSG pulled the plug on him sooner rather than later if we're still lingering about 12th.

I think Rodgers needs this season and next, however we really need for revamp our transfer policy, and our scouting systems.

top 6 would be flattering under brendan i have no F***ing clue rodgers

Looking at it from FSG's point of view, it's purely about getting into the Champions League again. If Brendan does that by finishing 4th, winning the CL or winning the Europa League he'll keep his job. Anything less than that and he's a goner just like Kenny was although if we miss out by a couple of points and grab a trophy he might have a small chance of staying.

For me, it's a lot about how we play and how we respond to this major slump. If we miss out but we are back playing good football with a couple of good January signings and a couple of good cup runs then yes I'd definitely give him another chance as we'll have some confidence and optimism back in the squad. If we keep playing like we are though and struggle our way to 6th-8th then I'm not so sure. A manager like Klopp (who'll surely be looking for a new challenge soon) would be very tempting if that happened.

Tickets will be booked for a trip to Boston.

As Luke mentioned earlier, Kenny won us a cup added with two more Wembley visits, finished 5th & was shown the door even after signing a new 3 year deal.

Difficult to defend Rodgers at the moment considering he has final say on player acquisitions & team selection.

I think FSG this time around will look for a experienced continental manager if ever Rodgers was shown the door.



 

Tickets will be booked for a trip to Boston.

As Luke mentioned earlier, Kenny won us a cup added with two more Wembley visits, finished 5th & was shown the door even after signing a new 3 year deal.

Difficult to defend Rodgers at the moment considering he has final say on player acquisitions & team selection.

I think FSG this time around will look for a experienced continental manager if ever Rodgers was shown the door.



 

My bet is Hyypia because he's young and has potential

Ok, sorry, but today I feel like being facetious

My bet is Hyypia because he's young and has potential

Ok, sorry, but today I feel like being facetious

we dont need anymore experiments, we need a proven manager to lead the team forward, the perfect fit would be Jürgen klopp, the second in line would be frank de boer

top 6 would be flattering under brendan i have no f**king clue rodgers

George, you're clearly the most vocal against Brendan Rodgers continuing as LFC manager so let me ask you, who would you put in his place and what players would you like to see this new manager bring in?

George, you're clearly the most vocal against Brendan Rodgers continuing as LFC manager so let me ask you, who would you put in his place and what players would you like to see this new manager bring in?

Jürgen klopp or frank de boer ... klopp could lure reus, hummels or gundogan to our team, everyone of them would be a huge improvement, different class than our current crop, bar sturridge, sterling and stevie, also klopp has proved that he can perform, except this season, which i think he'll sort out eventually, under very adverse conditions (losing top players, having alot of injured players), also he would be a breath of fresh air compared to dull rodgers, did you watched his interviews or the passion he shows throughout his team matches ?

Jürgen klopp or frank de boer ... klopp could lure reus, hummels or gundogan to our team, everyone of them would be a huge improvement, different class than our current crop, bar sturridge, sterling and stevie, also klopp has proved that he can perform, except this season, which i think he'll sort out eventually, under very adverse conditions (losing top players, having alot of injured players), also he would be a breath of fresh air compared to dull rodgers, did you watched his interviews or the passion he shows throughout his team matches ?

Have you checked bundesliga table this seasons? 

Have you checked bundesliga table this seasons? 

have you read my f**king comment ?

have you read my f**king comment ?

His point was that Dortmund is in the relegation zone. His point was that you want to replace our manager with a manager that's doing even worse than the one we have now, who will magically snap his fingers and attract top name talent that will be paid less money and have no Champions League football to play in but will jump at the chance to join us.

This is why you get so much flak, mate.

His point was that Dortmund is in the relegation zone. His point was that you want to replace our manager with a manager that's doing even worse than the one we have now, who will magically snap his fingers and attract top name talent that will be paid less money and have no Champions League football to play in but will jump at the chance to join us.

This is why you get so much flak, mate.

I said that before in my post, it's in there.

I highly doubt that Reus, Hummels or Gundogan are earning at Dortmund more than at us. Also he lured Mkhtaryan to them when we were also bidding for him, he promoted players like Kagawa, Gotze, Lewandowski, Bender, while playing free flowing football, he clearly knows what he is doing, it's just bad luck this season, have you all watched Dortmund's games, saw how many chances they waste in their games ?

I said that before in my post, it's in there.

I highly doubt that Reus, Hummels or Gundogan are earning at Dortmund more than at us. Also he lured Mkhtaryan to them when we were also bidding for him, he promoted players like Kagawa, Gotze, Lewandowski, Bender, while playing free flowing football, he clearly knows what he is doing, it's just bad luck this season, have you all watched Dortmund's games, saw how many chances they waste in their games ?

Those players could be signed by us if we relaxed the restrictions on the transfer system. There's no reason why Brendan Rodgers wouldn't want them or be unable to sign them but we can't sign them because FSG have set out a policy preventing that from happening. Even if they are signed, there's no guarantees they'll be a success no matter who is in charge. Today was a piss poor team selection by the manager, blindly and stubbornly sticking to the same failing system but at the same time, most of the players lacked desire. They have to take some measure of responsibility. The problems at the club are systemic and won't be fixed by changing the manager alone. Wholesale change is needed if we're to be successful once more.

Those players could be signed by us if we relaxed the restrictions on the transfer system. There's no reason why Brendan Rodgers wouldn't want them or be unable to sign them but we can't sign them because FSG have set out a policy preventing that from happening. Even if they are signed, there's no guarantees they'll be a success no matter who is in charge. Today was a piss poor team selection by the manager, blindly and stubbornly sticking to the same failing system but at the same time, most of the players lacked desire. They have to take some measure of responsibility. The problems at the club are systemic and won't be fixed by changing the manager alone. Wholesale change is needed if we're to be successful once more.

dont think that fenway is a problem, last season we could have won the title, and this year too, if the right signings were made, suarez was signed under fenway last time i checked, sturridge aswell, so if we had a competent manager who didnt go ham with the transfers, we could have been fighting for the title this year too, imagine he signed sanchez or reus instead of markovic, lallana

lets say we sacked Rogers then who would be accept managing liverpool with this limited sell to buy budget policy im saying here top managers wise not mid team managers .
we have to be realistic theres no top managers available and like others said blame FSG for not buying superstars and giving decent wages BR is only part of the problem .
do you think mourinho or Guardiola would accept managing a club like liverpool with a limited budget ?
absolutley no , so i'd rather stick with BR even though i dont agree with him than going for the likes of mid managers teams again

Tickets will be booked for a trip to Boston.



I think FSG this time around will look for a experienced continental manager if ever Rodgers was shown the door.



 

I seem to remember we used to have one of those.

I seem to remember we used to have one of those.

Yeah but Hodgson wasn't very popular

To finish 5th would mean we have a very good second half of season (like he had in last 2 years), as I doubt we'll start having regular results in coming month. So likely Brendan would be kept and after a good spell of results I'd have nothing against (then let's hope no key player depart, and he can have a good whole season, as he looks like it takes him forever to adapt to personnel changes - or personnel to himself, don't know).

Now I'm not sure the owners will have the balls to keep him and bet on his usual good second half to save the season if we are in lower midtable by christmas and out of CL, even if the team is starting to get results in december. And I'm not completely sure myself it would be worth the risk (not if some proven continental manager ready to come just before the transfer window can be found).

Hard to say how the season will go. And won't judge him till it's done.
Tactics. formations, selections - spot on in the main last year. You don't loose that.

Imo the main issue is the signings - he's tied his own hands.
We can debate formations/selections all day long, but on current form Balo/Ricky/Fabio make up a mid table forward line at best. Goals have dried up. And some of the other signings - like Markovic/Can - simply haven't been up to scratch either. SG/Allen/Hendo/Sterling/Coutinho started today - and I would not really have argued with that - but what the F**k does that say about who we've brought in with all our money.

Need Studge back. And do some business in Jan - strikers ( no other position ).

Jürgen klopp or frank de boer ... klopp could lure reus, hummels or gundogan to our team, everyone of them would be a huge improvement, different class than our current crop, bar sturridge, sterling and stevie, also klopp has proved that he can perform, except this season, which i think he'll sort out eventually, under very adverse conditions (losing top players, having alot of injured players), also he would be a breath of fresh air compared to dull rodgers, did you watched his interviews or the passion he shows throughout his team matches ?

Just gonna play devils advocate here. Is that really so different from Brendan?

Let's say we finish 5th, reach Wembley etc, Would Brendan be  sacked like Kenny, Or with the current manager being the present owners' choice would he stay on, it makes a very interesting scenario, with fans split down the middle whether Brendan should stay or go, time will only tell.

If we finish outside the top 5 and someone like Klopp becomes available I can see the owners getting rid.

Excellent choice Sir.

If we come 5th I hope we are as ruthless as the scum were.

We wouldnt have progressed. We will have gone backwards after a 200 million pound spend and Mr Rodgers will have finally been found out.

What would sacking him achieve? He's only part of the problem. The transfer policy at the club is fundamentally broken so any new manager coming in to replace Brendan would face the same problems, i.e. an inability to sign world class players. Let's face it, we're not going to make a profit on any of the players we signed in the Summer and finishing outside the top four would reduce the transfer budget available to the new manager so there's little point in a managerial change at this point.

But which world class players did Brendan try to sign in the summer but fail to get (excluding Sanchez)?

The manager has to take the failure of our transfers (thus far) on the chin, surely?

Something that has been bugging me apart from the usual is Emre Can. I mean, what is he, what does he do, what's his role, where does he play?

With Markovic, ok, he's useless, ineffective, but at least I know his role and his job. But with Can, I have no idea what he's supposed to be doing. It feels like one game the Gaffer says 'Ok, sit tight and let >whoever< push forward'. The next it's like, 'Ok, this game, run your bollocks off all over the park and make a few forward runs'

Honestly, it's like he has no set role and it bugs me because end of the day, I think Can might be a good player for us. But for the life of me I cannot tell you what he does, and in all seriousness, I really couldn't tell yo what his position is

#Confused

But which world class players did Brendan try to sign in the summer but fail to get (excluding Sanchez)?

The manager has to take the failure of our transfers (thus far) on the chin, surely?

the 64000 dollar question is what are FSG's thoughts on the current situation.Roy got sacked because the crowd turned on him and stopped going to the games.Kenny got sacked because they are cu*ts and didn't appreciate him but Brendan was there man if they sack him it would be another public admission of they haven't got a F***ing clue

Another problem for me is, all these signings, imagine if they were by committee, well, the next manager is also screwed in that case

But imagine if all these signings were the Gaffers, then this is entirely his fault

However, imagine if it's a cluster F**k of part committee and part manager

However you look at it we seem screwed

This is all down to how that £115m was spent and there is no getting away from that. I've said it before I'll say it again; a manager will stand or fall by the players he brings into a football team.

Again though, we don't even know who does do our signings.

This is Liverpool FC for F**k's sake!

If we finish outside the top 5 and someone like Klopp becomes available I can see the owners getting rid.

Fairy muff but what makes you think Klopp would touch LFC with a shitty stick facing enforced economies and a lack of funding from it's owners?
For that matter what manager of any credibility would sign up under those conditions?

A manager's position is conditional on results, it's the same the world over. Especially at top clubs. What we have learned from recent years is that Rafa Benitez came 2nd in 2009 and had an awful season directly afterwards. He got the sack. Wrongly, IMO.

Kenny Dalglish had a very good six months when he returned and had a disappointing season the following season, despite winning a league cup. He got the sack. Wrongly, IMO.

Brendan Rodgers did terrific last season, even if it was primarily to get the best out of Suarez and Sturridge because he still couldn't organize the defence. But unless things go terribly from now until the end of the season, it would be a mistake not to give him another season to rectify his errors IMO. I don't even listen to him nowadays because all managers make stupid excuses when they're F***ing up.

What needs to happen with Rodgers is next summer we need to sign proven quality, even if it's only one player we sign. The problem, of course, is that if we miss out on Champions League the PR machine will tell us we can't afford top players or they won't sign until we're in the Champions League.  So we're back to square one with signing unproven players who can't hack the pressure.

A manager's position is conditional on results, it's the same the world over. Especially at top clubs. What we have learned from recent years is that Rafa Benitez came 2nd in 2009 and had an awful season directly afterwards. He got the sack. Wrongly, IMO.

Kenny Dalglish had a very good six months when he returned and had a disappointing season the following season, despite winning a league cup. He got the sack. Wrongly, IMO.

Brendan Rodgers did terrific last season, even if it was primarily to get the best out of Suarez and Sturridge because he still couldn't organize the defence. But unless things go terribly from now until the end of the season, it would be a mistake not to give him another season to rectify his errors IMO. I don't even listen to him nowadays because all managers make stupid excuses when they're f**king up.

What needs to happen with Rodgers is next summer we need to sign proven quality, even if it's only one player we sign. The problem, of course, is that if we miss out on Champions League the PR machine will tell us we can't afford top players or they won't sign until we're in the Champions League.  So we're back to square one with signing unproven players who can't hack the pressure.

Unfortunately it's worse, this time we wouldn't have Suarez and Gerrard would be likely a bit part player.

Missing out on the CL really could be a devastating blow.

Unfortunately it's worse, this time we wouldn't have Suarez and Gerrard would be likely a bit part player.

Missing out on the CL really could be a devastating blow.

I agree, Luke.

But one thing it would definitely do is massively turn up the heat on FSG and their intentions for the club.

It's ok as the Europa League winners get CL qualification.... Don't they?

I miss Andy Carroll

The way the side are seemingly playing 5th from top or bottom !!

I honestly think that if we aren't playing a LOT better within the next 6-7 matches then the pressure will really build and Brendan might be sacked. FSG have to get 4th this year and we have the players to achieve it, just not the coaching.

I honestly think that if we aren't playing a LOT better within the next 6-7 matches then the pressure will really build and Brendan might be sacked. FSG have to get 4th this year and we have the players to achieve it, just not the coaching.

I don't think they will sack him mid season but if at the end of the season we have looked no where near achieving Top 4 then that journey back from Boston may be a long one.

i don't want us to become the laughing stock of the country, thought that award is united to take in the coming years ...

on another note, f**k me, how many posts do i need to make to have graeme souness out from my title 

4th place was 79 points last season we have 14 so we need 65 points from 28 league games so more than 2 points a game......not a chance.5th place was 72 points so we would need 58 from 28 games still more than 2 points a game so we are about 6 points down already at this rate we are on for about 50/55points.

4th place was 79 points last season we have 14 so we need 65 points from 28 league games so more than 2 points a game......not a chance.5th place was 72 points so we would need 58 from 28 games still more than 2 points a game so we are about 6 points down already at this rate we are on for about 50/55points.

Thats the reality of it .....

I don't think they will sack him mid season but if at the end of the season we have looked no where near achieving Top 4 then that journey back from Boston may be a long one.

Not a chance in hell.

Thats the reality of it .....

it is mate some think we are going to go on a run of games but I don't see it.For one teams are not scared of Mario Balotelli,they where scared of Luis Suarez.
Just keep banging high balls into the penalty area and we will concede goals and points

Chelsea buy Fabergas, Matic and Costa, bring in Courtois & lose no one of significance.
UTD buy Di Maria and Loan Falcao & lose defenders.
Arsenal bring in Sanchez and Welbeck.
We bring in Lambert and Balo, lose Suarez.

We literally have shown no desire to stay at the top, on the pitch and or before the season started.

Showing desire would have been to either a) match your competitors in signings or b) keep your best players.

Simple as we havent and we will suffer for it.

Yes we went for Sanchez, who is brilliant, but if he was the main man to replace our 200k/wk striker why didnt we offer him 200k... No chance Arsenal are paying him that.

F**k this for a shambles - 5th would be doing well.

Thats the reality of it .....

Grim reality. And what's worse we are a good few games away, at best, from sorting this mess out. I fear for us.

But which world class players did Brendan try to sign in the summer but fail to get (excluding Sanchez)?

The manager has to take the failure of our transfers (thus far) on the chin, surely?

I did not say he was blameless, Scott, I said he's only part of a wider systemic problem at the club. Changing managers without changing the transfer policy will achieve nothing which in turn will achieve nothing if the players are unwilling to apply the mental fortitude necessary to dig us out of slumps like this, which on recent evidence, they do not. By extension, if we're willing to change the transfer policy then should the manager not be judged by what he does without the constraints placed upon him?

I did not say he was blameless, Scott, I said he's only part of a wider systemic problem at the club. Changing managers without changing the transfer policy will achieve nothing which in turn will achieve nothing if the players are unwilling to apply the mental fortitude necessary to dig us out of slumps like this, which on recent evidence, they do not. By extension, if we're willing to change the transfer policy then should the manager not be judged by what he does without the constraints placed upon him?

But what exactly are these constraints that everybody is now banging on about? Does anyone know? Clearly we are not competing at the very top table when it comes to transfers, the owners aren't going to spend the sort of money the. Mancs shelled out on Di Maria and neither will they match the fees that Barca and Madrid can go to. I can live with that. Some pretty heft fees have been spent at the club since the owners came in have they not? I know that the biggest buys have generally happened after a big sale (Torres, Suarez) but both Kenny and Brendan spent plenty in the market. You can rattle off a list of big money buys over the past 4 years (Downing, Henderson, Carroll, Suarez, Sakho, Sturridge, Allen, Lallana, Lovren, Markovic, Balotelli all topped 16 million I believe)

Im not buying this 'poor Brendan imagine what he could have done if he could compete in the market' story that is suddenly doing the rounds. The suggestion almost seems to be that he wanted to buy all these older more experienced players but he was told no because they have no resale value and their wages are too high. I'm not sure there is any real basis for it? Gerrard made a few comments earlier in the week about us not going out and buying a Fabregas but I suspect we would have gone for him if the manager had been keen.

I'd say if this did happen then at the very least FSG would try and get in a Director of Football for the club. This would piss off Brendan of course but if he wants to keep his job he'd have to accept it or he'd resign. All hypothetical of course but I could see that happening.

But which world class players did Brendan try to sign in the summer but fail to get (excluding Sanchez)?

The manager has to take the failure of our transfers (thus far) on the chin, surely?

Yeah sure he should Scottie but what we hear in the media and who we actually go for seem to be different. If it's true what  Bascombe was saying about it being us that pushed the whole Sanchez wanting to live in London thing then it's obvious the supporters are getting the wool pulled over their eyes about who we are in for. We're always linked with these elite players but the rumours always fizzle out like a wet fart.

Apart from missing out on the CL money what's the difference between finishing 2nd and finishing 5th? 

We've still not won anything so if not winning last season was good enough, why is not winning anything this season so bad that Brendan needs to be sacked?

CL means attracting better players apparently and it is where this club should be as 5 times winners.So 2nd to 5th is a massive fall and has other implications too.

Yeah sure he should Scottie but what we hear in the media and who we actually go for seem to be different. If it's true what  Bascombe was saying about it being us that pushed the whole Sanchez wanting to live in London thing then it's obvious the supporters are getting the wool pulled over their eyes about who we are in for. We're always linked with these elite players but the rumours always fizzle out like a wet fart.

Regardless of what Bascombe may have said let's take a look at the transfer, had Sanchez come it would have been as a part X in the Suarez deal so I find it difficult to believe it was about money up front for the transfer, particularly given that all the funds from the deal were spent on bringing other players in (with three of them being for 20+ million). And as for the wages, the club are already paying higher wages than Arsenal so I don't believe it would have had anything to do with that either. Maybe the player did prefer to go to Arsenal because of the location, because of their 20 year Champions League background, because Wenger is one of the most respected coaches in Europe? I dare say the club did make a big deal of the London factor, who wants to admit that the player may have simply preferred to go to Arsenal.

What I find bizarre it that during the previous year we tried to buy players who were (or less likely) unlikely to come because of our lack of Champions League (Costa, Mickitwhatsisname, Willian) and then 12 months later when had qualified we spend on players like Lallana and Lovren who probably would have come regardless of Champions League.

I dont know where we will finish.
Although the points per game example is indicative .... after 10 games we could still go on a run and turn it around.
However ,after those 10 games and a quarter season already gone , I am disillusioned with the majority of the new signings , disillusioned with the tactics employed and cant see any change coming.
Is Brendan waiting for Saviour Sturridge to come riding into town?


It appears sadly that it is the only trick he has up his sleeve.

Champions League takes a lot of energy. It's normal to lose a few points before or after the European games.
Beyond the summer transfer window, from the games I've seen the team lost mainly confidence and fluidity.
It's difficult to replace a champions like Suarez, who wasn't at all adequately replaced.
The Premier is still long, but in January you need to go back on the market to secure a place in the top 4.

CL means attracting better players apparently and it is where this club should be as 5 times winners.So 2nd to 5th is a massive fall and has other implications too.

If you're in the CL regularly, it attracts better players but if we won't pay CL wages to new players they won't come anyway.

When you look at 2nd to 5th some would say it's a massive fall but according to the powers that be, we were a year ahead of schedule last season.  In other words last seasons 2nd place was not expected but maybe 5th or possibly 6th was, so I doubt they'll be worrying too much about it.

And my views have nothing to do with backing Brendan blithely but a realisation that 'our owners do not see things how we do' and regardless of Manager, this is how it will be and I would rather give Brendan that opportunity to prove them wrong "like he did last season" than start all over again with someone else.

Champions League takes a lot of energy. It's normal to lose a few points before or after the European games.
Beyond the summer transfer window, from the games I've seen the team lost mainly confidence and fluidity.
It's difficult to replace a champions like Suarez, who wasn't at all adequately replaced.
The Premier is still long, but in January you need to go back on the market to secure a place in the top 4.

I couldn't give a sh*t if we went out and lost every game after the champs league... If we showed desire, passion and willing. Yeah I wouldn't be happy but at least there would be a bit of passion involved.

F**k I wouldn't have cared if we lost to newcastle yesterday if we lost actually trying to win, but the sad fact is... We went to st james park and tried to keep tight and hit them with a counter attack. No taking the game to them, no aggression, just sit back and hope to not concede and hit them on the break.

Fair enough do something like that in the Madrid match but away at Newcastle ffs, the gaffer should be saying get out there and beat them.

If you're in the CL regularly, it attracts better players but if we won't pay CL wages to new players they won't come anyway.

When you look at 2nd to 5th some would say it's a massive fall but according to the powers that be, we were a year ahead of schedule last season.  In other words last seasons 2nd place was not expected but maybe 5th or possibly 6th was, so I doubt they'll be worrying too much about it.

And my views have nothing to do with backing Brendan blithely but a realisation that 'our owners do not see things how we do' and regardless of Manager, this is how it will be and I would rather give Brendan that opportunity to prove them wrong "like he did last season" than start all over again with someone else.

You keep saying this but so far have offered up absolutely no proof, no citation to back this claim up. Show us in writing, any quote from LFC Hierarchy that says we are not prepared to offer CL wages or any top player that has turned us down because we where unwilling to match wages with our competitors because for the life of me, I'll be damned if I can find one. I can find plenty about the 'ones for the future' bullshit but nothing on wages.

You keep saying this but so far have offered up absolutely no proof, no citation to back this claim up. Show us in writing, any quote from LFC Hierarchy that says we are not prepared to offer CL wages or any top player that has turned us down because we where unwilling to match wages with our competitors because for the life of me, I'll be damned if I can find one. I can find plenty about the 'ones for the future' bullshit but nothing on wages.

We don't really know the details but I think we have a budget for the squad and having brought in 8 players rather than 4 that will stretch the budget and leave little for big earners coming in.I think Luis was on big big money so they will pay as long as the overall budget is kept within its limits.
It why the likes of Pepe and Daniel got the push

We don't really know the details but I think we have a budget for the squad and having brought in 8 players rather than 4 that will stretch the budget and leave little for big earners coming in.I think Luis was on big big money so they will pay as long as the overall budget is kept within its limits.
It why the likes of Pepe and Daniel got the push

This is my thinking too. I feel Rodgers wanted quantity rather than quality, which as you said, stretches the budget and leaves little for big earners to come in.

You keep saying this but so far have offered up absolutely no proof, no citation to back this claim up. Show us in writing, any quote from LFC Hierarchy that says we are not prepared to offer CL wages or any top player that has turned us down because we where unwilling to match wages with our competitors because for the life of me, I'll be damned if I can find one. I can find plenty about the 'ones for the future' bullshit but nothing on wages.

Balotelli?  £90k per week basic with addons (if he achieves his targets) taking it to £160k but we won't bring in new players earning more than our existing players, they have to "prove their worth" to the team first.

So if you are a player who's already proven and you know your services are in high demand and other clubs will pay you the going rate, why would you come to us?

Balotelli?  £90k per week basic with addons (if he achieves his targets) taking it to £160k but we won't bring in new players earning more than our existing players, they have to "prove their worth" to the team first.

So if you are a player who's already proven and you know your services are in high demand and other clubs will pay you the going rate, why would you come to us?

Balotelli does not support your assumptions because of the circumstances surrounding him. According to his agent, he was on his "last chance for a big club", which put us in a very strong negotiating position. We basically had him over a barrel and any club of our stature would have taken advantage of that to get him with minimal wages. That was simply good business sense. The fact is we haven't been successful in signing any big name player yet since all of them have turned us down. As late as the Summer we tried to sign Sanchez, Cavani, Falco and Benzema, all of whom said there was no chance of them joining us. Given that we didn't even get as far as personal terms negotiations with the player's representatives we simply do not know what would or would not have been offered them. The absence of proof is not proof in itself.

Balotelli?  £90k per week basic with addons (if he achieves his targets) taking it to £160k but we won't bring in new players earning more than our existing players, they have to "prove their worth" to the team first.

So if you are a player who's already proven and you know your services are in high demand and other clubs will pay you the going rate, why would you come to us?

whatever way we try to dress this up we haven't got anything like value for money. Who is to blame seems to be wrapped up in total secrecy.

Balotelli?  £90k per week basic with addons (if he achieves his targets) taking it to £160k but we won't bring in new players earning more than our existing players, they have to "prove their worth" to the team first.

So if you are a player who's already proven and you know your services are in high demand and other clubs will pay you the going rate, why would you come to us?

Exactly Debs.

Balotelli does not support your assumptions because of the circumstances surrounding him. According to his agent, he was on his "last chance for a big club", which put us in a very strong negotiating position. We basically had him over a barrel and any club of our stature would have taken advantage of that to get him with minimal wages. That was simply good business sense. The fact is we haven't been successful in signing any big name player yet since all of them have turned us down. As late as the Summer we tried to sign Sanchez, Cavani, Falco and Benzema, all of whom said there was no chance of them joining us. Given that we didn't even get as far as personal terms negotiations with the player's representatives we simply do not know what would or would not have been offered them. The absence of proof is not proof in itself.

You asked for proof about us not paying CL wages, Balotellis circumstances weren't part of the equation. 

But you're right of course, there is no "written proof" that this is our actual policy, we're just a sh*t attraction to any player that has the pick of clubs to go to.

You asked for proof about us not paying CL wages, Balotellis circumstances weren't part of the equation. 

But you're right of course, there is no "written proof" that this is our actual policy, we're just a sh*t attraction to any player that has the pick of clubs to go to.

It's not proof by any stretch of the imagination. His circumstances would most definitely have been taken in to consideration. Do you seriously expect us all to believe that a player that was all but thrown out of his previous club, after leaving the one before that on bad terms, who can't get in to the Italian side because he's deemed not good enough, does not try hard enough, whose own agent publicly states this is his client's last chance to dance, would not warrant any businessman worth his salt using that to their advantage? There's certainly anecdotal evidence but as Walt said, the whole transfer process is wrapped up in secrecy with negotiations conducted behind closed doors that we do not know either way. It's entirely possible that we don't offer comparable wages but there is no proof.

There is no doubt we are one of the Top 4 wage payers in the EPL, ahead of Arsenal so all this wage talk is a bit of a smoke screen. Question is why have we turned to sh*te this season..................
You cant tell me Southampton and West Ham have better players................. ....

Maybe it was the Uruguayian nutter?

It's not proof by any stretch of the imagination. His circumstances would most definitely have been taken in to consideration. Do you seriously expect us all to believe that a player that was all but thrown out of his previous club, after leaving the one before that on bad terms, who can't get in to the Italian side because he's deemed not good enough, does not try hard enough, whose own agent publicly states this is his client's last chance to dance, would not warrant any businessman worth his salt using that to their advantage? There's certainly anecdotal evidence but as Walt said, the whole transfer process is wrapped up in secrecy with negotiations conducted behind closed doors that we do not know either way. It's entirely possible that we don't offer comparable wages but there is no proof.

I don't "expect" you to believe F**k all mate, I'm not that arrogant to think everyone needs to agree with my views.  Neither am I desperate to win an imaginary argument that you appear to want to have, hence my reply......

But you're right of course, there is no "written proof" that this is our actual policy, we're just a sh*t attraction to any player that has the pick of clubs to go to.

There is no doubt we are one of the Top 4 wage payers in the EPL, ahead of Arsenal so all this wage talk is a bit of a smoke screen. Question is why have we turned to sh*te this season..................

Not so sure about that mate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html

http://www.tsmplug.com/football/premier-league-player-salaries-club-by-club/

Finishing 5th,6th,or even 7th although extremely disappointing changing the manager is not the answer, where would that place us if that were to happen?

We have to consider we're still within that 5 year plan,  last season we were exceptional and probably a year ahead of schedule, however, losing two thirds of your attacking prowess, to dependant on the third element of that attack(a teenager)  coupled with major injuries to key players,
Add other players taking longer to settle(maybe never will) a new uncertain back 4, and a still unconvincing keeper,  is it really any wonder we are miles off from last season?

It has been disappointing this season thus far, but ffs has it really come down to the point where we're discussing a new manager,  really?

Of course the signings made have been let's say a let down,  but that doesn't mean they won't come good,  we can all point fingers and blame whoever but at the end of the day it gets us nowhere,

We were never going to match last season's exploits, even had Luis stayed,  we would be in a better position than we are currently granted imo but with the signings that chavs, citeh, Arse, and even the scum have signed it' was no guarantee we'd finish in a top 4 spot,(we probably would have tbh)

Look, all I'm saying is too many on here are to.hasty In sharpening the knives,  last season like it or not was a one off, we had a 30+ goal scoring, goal assisting genius,  we had another 25+ goal scorer, we had the surprise element of a fearless teenager,  a season free of midweek football allowing at least a 5day rest period giving us a fresh ready to go again X1, a X1 all singing from the same songsheet,

We're not a club known for sacking managers per se, and it's far too early imo for us to consider bagging Brendan,  he at least deserves to be given the time to put things right,  I hope that FSG back their man and give him another season irrespective of where we finish even if that's as low as 7th.

Top 4 is still achievable and until it's mathematically impossible I'll still believe we will make it.


YNWA

There is no doubt we are one of the Top 4 wage payers in the EPL, ahead of Arsenal so all this wage talk is a bit of a smoke screen. Question is why have we turned to sh*te this season..................
You cant tell me Southampton and West Ham have better players................. ....

Maybe it was the Uruguayian nutter?

no maybe about it. If I played in that side last year as soon as I got the ball I would be looking to see where Luis is.No tactical genius required

Not so sure about that mate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html

http://www.tsmplug.com/football/premier-league-player-salaries-club-by-club/

Cheers for that. My point still stands we are certainly not paying peanuts considering the EPL is the richest league in the world.
sh*t scouting comes to mind.

I don't "expect" you to believe f**k all mate, I'm not that arrogant to think everyone needs to agree with my views.  Neither am I desperate to win an imaginary argument that you appear to want to have, hence my reply......

Appearances can be deceiving, I assure you, I'm just having a debate.

Cheers for that. My point still stands we are certainly not paying peanuts considering the EPL is the richest league in the world.
Sh*t scouting comes to mind.

Lack of common sense is another. It doesn't take a scout to tell you that Markovic's position was overflowing with existing talent, regardless of how good he was.

Lack of common sense is another. It doesn't take a scout to tell you that Markovic's position was overflowing with existing talent, regardless of how good he was.

Maybe preparation for the sale of Sterling to Madrid

If we finish any lower than last seasons position then it would be a failure IMO, especially if we finished bloody 5th!

But given that we have lost the main reason why we finished where we did, I can settle for winning the Champions League and coming 3rd

**Make note of this post for end of the season **

If we finish 5th, I don't think he should go. But there would need to obviously be some changes made, some better players brought in and better progress made the following year.

Now...if we finish 9th or 10th.....think it would be a different story, I guess I'd have to determine how much blame was attributed to Brendan.

If we finish 5th, I don't think FSG sacks Brendan.

Not really interested in changing managers every few years like the Arab owned clubs or the Russian owned ones.

If we finish 5th, I don't think he should go. But there would need to obviously be some changes made, some better players brought in and better progress made the following year.

Now...if we finish 9th or 10th.....think it would be a different story, I guess I'd have to determine how much blame was attributed to Brendan.

If we finish 5th, I don't think FSG sacks Brendan.

Not really interested in changing managers every few years like the Arab owned clubs or the Russian owned ones.

The irony is, if we finish 5th we won't be able to attract better players. We had that one window to kick on from last season and he blew it, preferring quantity over quality. Even January will be extremely difficult if we're not in the top four. Let's be brutally honest here, would you want to join Liverpool in its current state if you where a professional footballer?

The irony is, if we finish 5th we won't be able to attract better players. We had that one window to kick on from last season and he blew it, preferring quantity over quality. Even January will be extremely difficult if we're not in the top four. Let's be brutally honest here, would you want to join Liverpool in its current state if you where a professional footballer?

Well that's the problem of course, but if you find yourself in 5th, there's not much else you can do.

Man United found a way to attract top players in spite of having no European football so it's obviously possible.

Well that's the problem of course, but if you find yourself in 5th, there's not much else you can do.

Man United found a way to attract top players in spite of having no European football so it's obviously possible.

That they did by throwing silly wages at players.

I have no doubt we were interested in Falcao but tried to low ball him with Balotelli wages of 90K a week plus add ons, then came United and put 350k on the table.

It's nonsensical really and works if you have an unlimited pool of funds, if you don't it becomes unsustainable if you finish outside the top 4 for a few seasons.

City did it with success offering a heaven for football mercenaries, they attracted a plethora of talent without the CL carrot only in their third year under the Sheiks did they finally qualify.

Finishing 5th would be extremely dissapointing and questions will need to be answered, alot would depend on the shape of the team at the end of the season; have new players gelled, do we have an established defense, what are the glaring gaps?

If we finish 5th, I don't think he should go. But there would need to obviously be some changes made, some better players brought in and better progress made the following year.

The only way better players will arrive is if FSG relax the policy of no high wages mate.  I still don't get why people think it's down to Brendan.

I think he needs the time....he needs to spend big though on world class players. Look at last season, Luis Suarez, world class striker and we finish 2nd. We don't have any real big world class players at the moment. How many teams have been successful without this calibre of player? Van Persie to Man Utd a few years back was the difference maker in the title race, Sergio Aguero in Man City's title success....and the big teams all over Europe...Barca, Real, Bayern - they have a whole squad full of them, all we need is a couple!

The irony is, if we finish 5th we won't be able to attract better players. We had that one window to kick on from last season and he blew it, preferring quantity over quality. Even January will be extremely difficult if we're not in the top four. Let's be brutally honest here, would you want to join Liverpool in its current state if you where a professional footballer?

I would..

But then I'm biased

At this rate I hope we're not in a relegation battle

Team,squad has zero confidence at the moment, when will it return?.

Yeah but Hodgson wasn't very popular

           

You are a cad Saint !




Lets say we don't even finish 7th on 61 points ...  our 2013 finish ?

Let's say we finish 5th I will start to believe in miracles and 20 year old virgins.

5th is looking incredibly ambitious.  We're currently 11th.

A Director of Football isn't picking Mario Balotelli up front every game on his own.  Or rewarding players who put in bad performances, and subbing off or not starting players who are putting in good performances.

Besides that Brendan Rodgers said he couldn't work with a DoF.

Another weekend of awful results for the teams around us. Arsenal, Spuds, City and Everton all dropping points. Silver lining to what has been a horrific few weeks is that we are only 4 points off 4th place..... but miles off it performance wise.