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      Potential solutions

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      MarkMitt
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #46: Nov 09, 2014 02:30:58 pm
      86 point plus 50 goal diff and just 2 defeats.

      It was 84 points I believe. But a far more competitive squad for sure.

      JD
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #47: Nov 09, 2014 03:40:52 pm
      Given our recent form will the following simple remedies improve us or do we need bigger root and branch type interventions?

      1. Sturridge returning
      2. Flanagan and Sakho returning
      3. Fringe players like Lucas borini and toure starting
      4. A new striker and/or keeper in January

      I think the return of the top three players you mention are important.  They should all walk into the first team based on the form of the current players.

      I think the formation needs to be changed.  I think Gerrard's current role is futile.  It's not doing the job it is intended to do and he is easily nullified in that position.  Vital that we play two up front - Sturridge and someone to complement him.  Weirdly I think Lambert may actually be the best partner for him at present.

      In the window I think we will have to go out and spend at least £40M on a keeper and more suitable striker to the way we 'used to' play football.
      reddebs
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #48: Nov 09, 2014 04:02:41 pm
      It's a strange one trying to decide what the solution is as I don't think there's necessarily just one thing that would make the difference.  So as a starting point, if we assume that Brendan will continue to play the game his way or to his philosophy then we need to start with his favoured formation, which is a 433.

      Many people advocate that to "build a title winning squad" you start with the defense, so first we/he needs to decide what "type" of defense we/he wants.  Is it one that sits backs and defends deep, with static fb's, a front footed one with attacking FB's or is it possible to have both?  Some sit and some don't or does this cause confusion?  I'd say he wants the front footed one but we've actually ended up with the "both" version and that's why I think it looks such a mess.

      With that in mind let's look at who our defenders are, I'm going to include players out on loan throughout the post as they are still our players and may play a part in his future thinking.

      Keepers.

      Migs and Jones are our two main keepers whilst Ward is our u21's keeper. 

      Migs is definitely not a front footed keeper, he likes to hug his goal line, wants his defense to deal with anything over the top and isn't confident enough (although getting better) to come for crosses but he is an excellent shot stopper.  Jones is kind of a bit of both but not very good at either and really isn't good enough to be challenging for the top spot.  Ward is very hit and miss and although he's still very young (21) for a keeper, he's never going to be a Pepe or Courtois.  If anything our u18's keeper Fulton is already better than both Jones and Ward but at 18 he can't begin to start challenging just yet.

      None of the senior keepers fit, so a new keeper is paramount.

      Right Backs/Right Centre Backs.

      Johnson fits as an attacking FB but isn't good enough at anything and will be gone in the summer when his contracts up.

      Flanno is better defensively but as yet still needs to develop his attacking side at this level, although he is capable as shown from his days at u21's.  Can play both right and left FB equally well but I'm not expecting him to feature too much this season unless he makes a remarkable recovery from his surgery to get back into last seasons form.

      Manquillo gets up and down the line well enough and is a solid defender similar to Flanno but his attacking threat isn't quite there yet.  We've no idea if he's part of our future plans as he's only a loanee but we'll know in the summer.

      Wisdom is a difficult one to judge.  He's secured a starting place at West Brom at RB, another solid defender who needs to develop his attacking threat if he's to remain as a FB or he'll need more time to develop at CB. He's only going to do this on loan though and I doubt whether another Club would risk that when he has literally no experience as a CB at senior level.  From his time at the Academy I'd say he's a deep sitting CB.

      Ilori is primarily a RCB but can play anywhere across the defense.  He's definitely a front footed defender, always looking to win the ball high up the pitch but also has the speed to get back if he mistimes his tackle/interception.  He's also a fantastic header of the ball, something we're sadly missing.

      Skrtel is a deep defender of the worst kind for me.  Not only does he sit deep he also backs off to the point of having to make last ditch blocks in the 6yrd box.

      Toure due to his age tends to sit back more but can play on the front foot as shown at Real.  Another who'll be gone in the summer.

      Seb Coates seemed to have improved a bit in pre season but has barely featured at a struggling Sunderland, so is not really an answer to our problems, unless he's been injured?

      So will we see a completely new right side to our defense next season with Glen and Toure definitely gone and Skrtel seemingly not fitting Brendans preferred system?  It'll be a very young and inexperienced defense but probably a very dynamic and attacking one with Flanno, Wisdom, Ilori and possibly Manquillo.  I reckon we're sorted there but here's a thought to add some experience, Stevie at RCB, if he stays?

      Left Backs/Left Centre Backs.

      In Moreno we have a great player already and an even better one in the making.  He fits us perfectly and with Flanno and, at a push, Ilori able to cover this side we're sorted.  There is also Brad Smith who is similar to Moreno but two years younger, he's recently been brought back from his loan at Swindon due to his reluctance to sign a contract extension so I'm guessing he's in our future plans.

      Oh dear what to say about Lovren.  He seemed like he should have been a perfect fit for us, a front footed CB who is also a good organiser??  Is he confused because of the mix of CB's, is struggling with how Brendan wants him to play or is he just not that good?  So many question marks.

      Sakho was another bright prospect who should fit how Brendan wants to play.  An aggressive, front footed CB who, as Captain of France at a very young age, we all thought was the leader we needed.  His form for France since he joined us is like watching a different player, would he be better say with Ilori next to him who is similar to Varane or does he look so good due to having Matuidi and Pogba in front of him?  For whatever reason he's out of form, out of favour and doesn't have a good injury record.

      Do we get rid of both our LCB's and start again or give either one or both more time?  As most have identified our defensive problems are either a coaching or orgisation issue is it really necessary to throw more money at it?  Personally I'd stick with what we have, play the players who fit the system and stick to them, barring injuries.

      Midfield.

      As pointed out above with Sakho and something constantly mentioned on these boards, the midfield doesn't give the defense enough protection.  Whether we think it's correct or not, Brendan will not play with a pure DM. 

      None of our youth teams do, so they are being coached in how Brendan wants his midfield 3 to play which is all of them interchanging positions throughout the game.  They are all quick, technically excellent players, who use both feet, are good in tight spaces, can tackle, track back, press aggressively, are organised and can pass long or short, on the deck or over the top, to feet or into space.  They also aren't shy about trying to score goals.  They work damned hard for each other and the team.  Of course they have their preferred positions but they don't stay in them throughout a game, they are all CM's.  Compare that to who we have at senior level and instantly you see the problems.

      Stevie, stays put most of the time, isn't mobile, isn't particularly organised, rarely uses both feet even though he can, needs space and time to be effective, can't shoot like he used to do, doesn't press agressivley but his passing, set piece delivery and penalties make up for his deficiencies??

      Lucas doesn't have his passing range (who does?) but isn't crap by any means, is organised, reads the game well but doesn't really press, isn't quick and doesn't use both feet.

      Hendo isn't exactly mobile but has an engine on him most would kill for.  He presses aggressively, tracks back, can pass but rarely takes a risk, doesn't interchange much, rarely gets in the box and rarely scores.  I don't think he's especially organised or a good reader of the game, tackles half heartedly, rarely uses his left foot and isn't particularly good in tight spaces.

      Allen is probably the closest we have to how the kids play but a diluted and lightweight version of it.  He also rarely gets into scoring opportunities and generally fluffs it when he does.

      Can looks like he could develop into the right type of player but he's still learning what's expected of him.  He's one who'll probably improve more and quicker with others around him who play the same way.

      Coutinho is developing nicely, he's still inconsistant but he is still very young and one thing that happens with young players is they will have peaks and troughs of form.  His overall game has improved and his game intelligence is showing more this season. 

      Suso is a fantastic young player but I just don't see him becoming the type of player Brendan wants.  He has a lot of the attributes but I fear not enough of them, he's not aggressive enough and not mobile enough.  He's not a "terrior type" player he's a silky, smooth operator who needs time and space to work his magic but who knows he might do a Borini and decide he's got a chance by staying with us.

      Texeira I've not seen much of this season but I believe he's doing alright at Brighton, at least he's playing when available.  Is he a Brendan type of midfielder, I'd say so, probably more than Suso.  He's got the work rate and aggression but without seeing him play recently I don't know if he's developed the tracking back or organisation side.

      Lallana does everything a Brendan type midfielder should do, so I don't understand why he's not starting more games.  Maybe he sees him more as one of the front 3 than the midfield 3.  **see attackers**
       
      Alberto isn't really a midfielder as he's played most of his successful youth career as a false 9 but I  doubt we'll see him back at Melwood, although stranger things have happened.

      All in all we need a couple of disciplined, organised, strong CM's that have the qualities we're lacking in Stevie, Lucas, Allen and Hendo.  They don't need to be WC, just have more of the CM attributes Brendan wants.

      Attackers.

      We've kinda got it all wrong up top but we haven't been helped by Danny's injuries.  Again Brendan wants to play with an attacking 3 with a central or main man like Danny. 

      I guess he sees Origi as his natural stand in but at just 19yrs of age is it expecting too much to expect him to come in and get goals in his absense?  I've not seen him play for Lille but I understand he's playing out wide so maybe that's the plan for next season.

      Borini fits how Brendan wants his attackers to play he just doesn't score and until he starts doing so he'll never be good enough for us.  He'll be gone in the summer.

      Lambert was always only ever going to be a plan B, he's a different option when our regular game plan isn't working.  Will he push for a move elsewhere in the summer or is he happy to remain a Liverpool player, then retire?

      Mario, oh Mario, what do we do with a problem like Mario?  Weirdly I want him to stay as believe it or not I can see how much he's developing his game, how hard he's working and I can see him bursting into life when Danny's back.  Is he an answer to our problems or a problem in himself, think we'll have to wait and see.

      Little Raheem seems a bit confused this season.  It appears that Brendan sees him as one of the attacking 3, rather than an AM but I'm not sure it's working.  Maybe he sees it as the only way to get him in the team, maybe it's a general drop in form, due to his age and lack of rest during the summer, maybe he'll look better once Danny's back or maybe he'll take him out of the limelight completely.  One things for sure, we need him back to his last season performances as soon as possible, for his sake and ours.

      Markovic has taken a lot of stick since he arrived, mainly due to his price as you would assume he'd be ready to take the PL by storm for £20m.  Strangely at 18yrs old, he was ranked higher than Raheem as the No.1 in the top 20 young talents in world football, hence why he had that high a release clause in his contract.  It is way too soon to be writing him off and I'm sure we'll all be very happy we've got him in a couple of years.

      **Lallana I've added to the attackers as it seems this is how Brendan sees him.  I still don't understand why he's not getting more starts though I think he'll be fine when we get our act together.

      Ibe is still too inconsistant even at Championship level to know how well he'll develop.  I know some thought he'd be better than Raheem when he had his blip last season but it's still too soon to say.  If he can improve enough this season to keep his starting place and become a mainstay with Derby during their promotion push then he could come back and play his part.  As it's going now though, he probably needs another year or two on loan.

      I've seen a few having concerns that we're expecting too much of Danny when he returns but from a confidence point of view I think it'll lift the whole team.  He's big enough, bad enough and tough enough to keep his sh*t together and I have no doubt he'll be back to his devastating best straight away.  With Borini gone and a natural stand in for Danny I think there's enough goals in the players we'll have if we can sort the midfield out and get the ball to them quickly enough.

      Sorry for such a long ramble guys, I hadn't intended it being so long winded but it's my take on who does and doesn't fit with how Brendan wants us playing and how things will change over the next 12 months or so.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #49: Nov 09, 2014 06:40:37 pm
      Coates is injured. Sahko gives me the shits every time I see him. He's a mistake waiting to happen. There was a good point raised in the TAW podcast today about Stevie. When one of our attacking players goes past an opposing deep lying midfielder, it's great play by the attacker. When an opposing attackers goes past Gerrard, it's Gerrard's fault. People are too quick to blame him because, like everyone else in the side, he's only as good as the man next to him and no one covers him this happens.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #50: Nov 09, 2014 11:02:18 pm
      Its easy for me:  Drop out of form players and play the ones who will show some F***ing courage while they play. Obviously, we can't drop everyone, but we could start with Lovren, Johnson, Gerrard, and Balotelli. If we extend beyond those 4 then the next one would be hendo. Wouldn't mind seeing us lineup with this next game:  Migs; Manquillo, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno; Lucas, Can; Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling; Studge (Borini if Studge isn't ready to play from the start)
      JD
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #51: Nov 09, 2014 11:05:49 pm
      Seb Coates seemed to have improved a bit in pre season but has barely featured at a struggling Sunderland, so is not really an answer to our problems, unless he's been injured?

      He has been injured. They reckon he's back training this week.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #52: Nov 09, 2014 11:09:43 pm
      Coates is injured. Sahko gives me the shits every time I see him. He's a mistake waiting to happen. There was a good point raised in the TAW podcast today about Stevie. When one of our attacking players goes past an opposing deep lying midfielder, it's great play by the attacker. When an opposing attackers goes past Gerrard, it's Gerrard's fault. People are too quick to blame him because, like everyone else in the side, he's only as good as the man next to him and no one covers him this happens.

      Sakho is a mistake waiting to happen what a load of sh*te. He's the first choice French CB keeping out the likes of koscielny from Arsenal.
      I think you may have mistaken him for Skrtel.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #53: Nov 09, 2014 11:16:56 pm
      Sakho is a mistake waiting to happen what a load of sh*te. He's the first choice French CB keeping out the likes of koscielny from Arsenal.
      I think you may have mistaken him for Skrtel.

      I thought that about Sakho but if you look at his stats they are quite outstanding in both tackling and passing.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #54: Nov 09, 2014 11:19:50 pm
      Its easy for me:  Drop out of form players and play the ones who will show some f**king courage while they play. Obviously, we can't drop everyone, but we could start with Lovren, Johnson, Gerrard, and Balotelli. If we extend beyond those 4 then the next one would be hendo. Wouldn't mind seeing us lineup with this next game:  Migs; Manquillo, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno; Lucas, Can; Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling; Studge (Borini if Studge isn't ready to play from the start)

      We fell for that one on Tuesday then he left out Lucas Toure and Borini the 3 best players on the night so much for picking in form players eh!
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #55: Nov 10, 2014 12:39:34 am
      I mentioned in the Raheem thread that this team is crying out for anew Souness to galvanise everyone together.
      when Raheem took the elbow to his face we should have been all over Ramirez like a rash.
      Our players need to get nasty.

      This would solve a lot of our problems in my opinion.

      Not only is he a combative and a tenacious player, his passing is very good, has good acceleration, mobile and a tough tackler. He is older and wiser and with more experience. Captain of his side at a young age, I truly believe he would be 10x better than he was when he first broke into the first team.

      Step up Rodgers, buy Jay Spearing please!!! (this is not a joke)
      Canuck33
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #56: Nov 10, 2014 02:03:24 am
      This would solve a lot of our problems in my opinion.

      Not only is he a combative and a tenacious player, his passing is very good, has good acceleration, mobile and a tough tackler. He is older and wiser and with more experience. Captain of his side at a young age, I truly believe he would be 10x better than he was when he first broke into the first team.

      Step up Rodgers, buy Jay Spearing please!!! (this is not a joke)

      Is this supposed to be a joke?
      HScRed1
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #57: Nov 10, 2014 07:21:34 am
      This would solve a lot of our problems in my opinion.

      Not only is he a combative and a tenacious player, his passing is very good, has good acceleration, mobile and a tough tackler. He is older and wiser and with more experience. Captain of his side at a young age, I truly believe he would be 10x better than he was when he first broke into the first team.

      Step up Rodgers, buy Jay Spearing please!!! (this is not a joke)


      As if Fed  wasn't bad enough with Diame but Jay Spearing   :lmao:
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #58: Nov 10, 2014 08:50:07 am
      That's our saviour Jay F***ing Spearing  :lmao:
      waltonl4
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #59: Nov 10, 2014 09:17:37 am
      This would solve a lot of our problems in my opinion.

      Not only is he a combative and a tenacious player, his passing is very good, has good acceleration, mobile and a tough tackler. He is older and wiser and with more experience. Captain of his side at a young age, I truly believe he would be 10x better than he was when he first broke into the first team.

      Step up Rodgers, buy Jay Spearing please!!! (this is not a joke)

      I met Jay a couple of months back at bromborough he is tiny but he should walk into this team
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #60: Nov 10, 2014 09:19:43 am
      This would solve a lot of our problems in my opinion.

      Not only is he a combative and a tenacious player, his passing is very good, has good acceleration, mobile and a tough tackler. He is older and wiser and with more experience. Captain of his side at a young age, I truly believe he would be 10x better than he was when he first broke into the first team.

      Step up Rodgers, buy Jay Spearing please!!! (this is not a joke)

      Gas man  :lmao:
      waltonl4
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #61: Nov 10, 2014 09:22:33 am

      the point is Jay Spearing wouldn't look out of place in this team so judge for yourselves the quality of the people that replaced him for a lot of money.would we be any worse with Spearing in the team now I don't think so its a mark of how far we haven't come.
      chap
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #62: Nov 10, 2014 09:58:50 am
      Quite a simple solution IMO. When we identify players that will fit into our system ie Costa, Willian Salah Sanchez Throw the kitchen sink at them make bids that cant be refused make sure we get top players that will solve our problems. Were spending big on 1 season wonders and seem to be paying big on potential. Need to stop blaming Rodgers, had we of bought Costa, Willian or Salah last season we would have won the league IMO. Solution to being bang average would be buy QUALITY! simple really.

      Were getting walked on in the market over relatively small amounts of money. Like Suarez was on top wages here and rightly so, top players want top money. If we can spend wages like that on suarez why not on our top targets? The league seems to be down to very fine margins this season if those key players can win a couple of games for you that can be the difference in 1st or 5th.
      federer
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #63: Nov 10, 2014 10:05:08 am
      solution:

      Frank de Boer.
      trebor12
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #64: Nov 10, 2014 10:41:08 am
      The formations all wrong for me at the moment and I would call for a change to 4 2 3 1 if BR is that set on using 1 up top. If you look at Chelsea they have Terry and Cahill as their 2 CBs and whatever FBs they use. City have Kompany and either Demichalis or Mangala (Mangala is still learning the EPL cos he's new)and whatever full backs they use. What is common about the top 6 sides really is 2 holding midfeilders and the protection they give their back 4. This what we are lacking At the moment IMO. Personally I would going for Lucas and Can as our holding 2 or Lucas and Hendo but deffo Lucas. I would not be afraid to drop Gerrard just because we would miss his passing range. If you look at the 2 CMs of Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Southamton or West ham and Newcastle, do any of them have the same passing range as Gerrard ? I'd suspect the answer would be NO. What they do well is give their back 4 protection. Our CB pairings are getting slaughtered at the moment. The thing is Lovren is not getting the protection he was getting at Southamton last season. Its all very good paying big money for him but hes being asked to play differently without that protection he got last season and he's being found out. I think Mario would score a lot more if he had someone like Coutinho, Sterling or Lallana behind him. I see Mario dropping deep and to the left all the time in this formation we play at the moment and the thing is we are going to see the same when Danny comes back only Danny will drop deep and to the right. The plus point will be that Danny has the pace to get forward from deeper positions more than Mario has. So for me it would be this :

                                     Migs(cos we have to)

              Manquillo      Skrtel          Lovren          Moreno

                       Lucas/Gerrard            Can/Allen/Hendo

             Hendo/Markovic      Sterling/Coutinho            Lallana/Borini

                                    Mario/Sturridge/Lambert

      bazspeedman
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #65: Nov 10, 2014 11:06:04 am
      the point is Jay Spearing wouldn't look out of place in this team so judge for yourselves the quality of the people that replaced him for a lot of money.would we be any worse with Spearing in the team now I don't think so its a mark of how far we haven't come.

      We have a few problems with the team right now. But F**k me Jay Spearing is not the answer!
      racerx34
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #66: Nov 10, 2014 11:14:05 am
      We have a few problems with the team right now. But F**k me Jay Spearing is not the answer!

      I don't think walton is suggesting he is.
      More that we've signed a lot of average players for big transfer fees.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #67: Nov 10, 2014 12:43:45 pm
      I don't think walton is suggesting he is.
      More that we've signed a lot of average players for big transfer fees.

      Spearing is a Championship level player all Rodgers signings are PL level players they are just under performing at present as the system with Balotelli as a lone striker and Stevie as a DM isn't working.
      fishpie
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      Re: Potential solutions
      Reply #68: Nov 10, 2014 12:52:41 pm
      I already felt relief when Spearing left. Now I'm getting flashbacks of him using his arm to issue orders, the ball should go there etc, he was a cocky little runt who was totally sh*t and no he isn't from Liverpool, heard him speak?
      Shelvey though: we should of kept here, I am totally backtracking here because I said he was to maverick for an organised team, we aren't a tight unit like that, I thought it was heading that way... it isn't. The team shape/formation is a total mess always.

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