Christian Benteke Player Thread (Liverpool -> Crystal Palace)

Don't believe that for a second. I stand by what I said, head to the knee-jerk thread.

It is your choice to believe or not....

I saw nothing in the Swindon that made me think that Benteke will be a real asset to the club,

You want to play silly buggers and multi quote taking bits out of context?
This is the only warning you'll get that you're picking a fight with the wrong person.

Not saying it is right or wrong merely saying that it is what most people do

So you just follow the crowd.

Really… and your posts are always informed?

They are as informed as they can be after weighing up the evidence and evaluating performance, free from the agenda and/or chip on the shoulder you have regarding our players

So If i was to click on your name and look through the history of everything you have posted you are saying that I would not find one post where you have criticized a manager or player?..... And you say I post sh*te?
Again, you have never criticized a manager’s decision

Crack on.
You'll find I rarely criticise either players or manager.
Unlike you, I understand things like form, fitness, mentality all have a part to play.
When I say Balotelli is thick, that's a fact, not a criticism.

Well on that we can agree the “Hysterically funny.” Bit that is, and there you go again, “trolling” seems like you do not handle anything, or anybody that veers away from your point of view to well

Glad you can laugh at yourself.
It's the first step on your road to recovery.

Troll:
 a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]

The definition fits you, post after post after post moaning about a player that hasn't actually played for us in a competitive match.

Lambert?... Borini?.... None of them can be trained?.... Remember it is what you wrote Seem that it is hard than you think as BR has not done it with any of the other strikers or players

Lambert was only ever a stop gap.
Borini has attitude problems.

And I am willing to bet that it is based on that per-season goal, yet you would like me to accepted the “The evidence” of your eyes. Are your eyes that much better than everyone else’s?

Nope, wrong yet again.
You might judge a player by youtube or 1 game.
I judge them after seeing plenty of them.
I suppose I've watched a couple of dozen matches where he has played, both pre and post injury.
You are as wide of the mark about this player as it is possible to be.

So are many players in the world seasoned international but you wouldn’t want Masoud Hassanzadeh playing for Liverpool would you…. Just because someone plays for there country does not mean that they are a great player, merely they are one of the best for that country…. And as I stated before it does not matter how good a player is if he does not fit the system he will not perform at his best

1) I've never said he is "great", just that he could be.
2) Belgium have some exceptional players and Benteke looked in the same category
3) You appear to misunderstand what a system is. They change, they adapt, there are different systems our team uses, and you have never provided a single shred of proof as to why Benteke wouldn't fit.
And again, here you go making out you know more about our "system" than our own manager.

Yes I made that presumption…. I tell you what, When you can stop making the presumption that I know nothing about football I will stop making presumption about you, fair enough?

I tell you what, stop trolling, stop trying to be a F***ing smartarse, give the lad a chance and get behind him and the F***ing team instead of taking cheap shots at the players and manager.

don'y you start.....

There is a reason I post as I do…. It helps me stay on point

You want to play silly buggers and multi quote taking bits out of context?

What have I taken out of context?

This is the only warning you'll get that you're picking a fight with the wrong person.

Was not aware I was picking a fight was under the impression we were debating here

So you just follow the crowd.

If I did I would be agreeing with you and most people here re:- Benteke

They are as informed as they can be after weighing up the evidence and evaluating performance, free from the agenda and/or chip on the shoulder you have regarding our players

Funny that, I did the same all so free from agenda/or chip on shoulder (guest that was the part that you hope to convince other that I have it in for Liverpool players and they rally around you to help slay me)
 

Crack on.
You'll find I rarely criticise either players or manager.
Unlike you, I understand things like form, fitness, mentality all have a part to play.

Funny you should say that, just took my own advice and looked up some of your previous post and in the first 30 -40 you criticise Kenny D twice, Stuart Downing, Charlie Adams, Liverpool team and players Vs Wigan, the team and coaches in the FA Cup game against Villa, The team in the lost to Arsenal, Kenny’s policy for Buy British and Steven Gerrard for looking disinterested…

Unlike you, I understand things like form, fitness, mentality all have a part to play.

Could be as you are always telling because “I know nothing about football”

When I say Balotelli is thick, that's a fact, not a criticism.

This you gleamed from the many hours that you and Mario have spent in one another company, and the many conversation that you have had together, Yes?

Glad you can laugh at yourself.
It's the first step on your road to recovery.

Glad that the therapy has worked for you, gives me hope

Troll:
 a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]

Could apply to the majority of the people who post here… Hold on just remembered one of you previous post, let me get it for you

If it's pointless discussing what could happen, what's the point of an internet forum?

The definition fits you, post after post after post moaning about a player that hasn't actually played for us in a competitive match.
Lambert was only ever a stop gap.

Borini has attitude problems.

And you know this how? Do you also spend time in his company?

Nope, wrong yet again.
You might judge a player by youtube or 1 game.
I judge them after seeing plenty of them.
I suppose I've watched a couple of dozen matches where he has played, both pre and post injury.
You are as wide of the mark about this player as it is possible to be.
1) I've never said he is "great", just that he could be.
2) Belgium have some exceptional players and Benteke looked in the same category
3) You appear to misunderstand what a system is. They change, they adapt, there are different systems our team uses, and you have never provided a single shred of proof as to why Benteke wouldn't fit.

 I offer it as an opinion while you offer it as a for gone conclusion

And again, here you go making out you know more about our "system" than our own manager.

Would seem that I am not the only one guilt of that (Check some of your previous posts)

I tell you what, stop trolling, stop trying to be a f**king smartarse, give the lad a chance and get behind him and the f**king team instead of taking cheap shots at the players and manager.

By the way… when I looked up your previous posts (you had then posted as staggering 6,671 of them) and yet in the first 37 i found 13 instances were you have criticized Manager, Team, Players and Coaches (6671-6634) and that was just a glance, and you tell me to “get behind him and the f**king team instead of taking cheap shots at the players and manager.” You mean like you do?

I’ll defend your right to moan about the team, manager, coaches and players all day, But then do not attack me for doing the same

By the way… when I looked up your pervious posts

Are you saying Swab is a perv?

Are you saying Swab is a perv?

Stop It.....

Are you saying Swab is a perv?

get too excited and to lazy too proof read  stupid mind

If I did I would be agreeing with you and must people here re:- Benteke

Funny that, I did the same all so free from agenda/or chip on shoulder (guest that was the part that you hope to convince other that I have it in for Liverpool players and they rally around you to help slay me)
 
Funny you should say that, just took my own advice and looked up some of your previous post and in the first 30 -40 you criticise Kenny D twice, Stuart Downing, Charlie Adams, Liverpool team and players Vs Wigan, the team and coaches in the FA Cup game against Villa, The team in the lost to Arsenal, Kenny’s policy for Buy British and Steven Gerrard for looking disinterested…

Could be as you are always telling because “I know nothing about football”
This you gleamed from the many hours that you and Mario have spent in one another company, and the many conversation that you have had together, Yes?

Glad that the therapy has worked for you, gives me hope

Could apply to the majority of the people who post here… Hold on just remembered one of you previous post, let me get it for you


The definition fits you, post after post after post moaning about a player that hasn't actually played for us in a competitive match.
Lambert was only ever a stop gap.

And you know this how? Do you also spend time in his company?

 I offer it as an opinion while you offer it as a for gone conclusion

Would seem that I am not the only one guilt of that (Check some of your previous posts)

By the way… when I looked up your previous posts (you had then posted as staggering 6,671 of them) and yet in the first 37 i found 13 instances were you have criticized Manager, Team, Players and Coaches (6671-6634) and that was just a glance, and you tell me to “get behind him and the f**king team instead of taking cheap shots at the players and manager.” You mean like you do?

I’ll defend your right to moan about the team, manager, coaches and players all day, But then do not attack me for doing the same

So on the one hand lots of people do the same thing you do, and you agree with that, but on the other hand you don't follow a crowd.
Riiight, ok.

So, now go and look at all my posts, count the percentage that criticise for the sake of it, or attack players before they've even played a game for us, then compare it to my overall post count, and work out the percentage.

Now do the same for your posts.

You see, criticising after the fact is a lot F***ing different than doing it before a player has even kicked a ball in anger for us.

This is what you don't seem to grasp.
If he plays sh*t, then by all means fire away, except I think this is something you are waiting for so you can jump up and say "told ya so" at the first sign of poor form.

Again though, the thing you seem to be having trouble with, is the fact that he hasn't even played a competitive game for us and yet you're sticking the boot in.

Like I said before, get behind him, get behind the team, get behind the manager.
That's the Liverpool Way, assuming you know what that means.

Borini has attitude problems.

I'm sorry, Swab, you know I love your posts, but what attitude problems?  Ok, he may be a poor - average player and fair enough if people call him out for that, but what evidence is there that shows he has an attitude problem? The amount of sh*t Borini gets is ridiculous and it's as if he did a Terry to some of the posters here

Just to keep things on topic slightly, Benteke impressed me vs Swindon. I think he needs to stay centrally more often and bully the CB's rather than playing in an inter changeable forward line where I believe would weaken him.

This is getting boring.... The difference between you and I is I am consistent if that I do not criticize people for doing what I myself do, nor do I believe that I am always right, nor do I feel I have to put others down to make myself seem more knowledgeable… but lets play

So on the one hand lots of people do the same thing you do, and you agree with that, but on the other hand you don't follow a crowd.
Riiight, ok.

Yes… we all criticize player’s manager’s tactics etc unlike you I admit to doing so and do not slag others off for doing the same…. The so call “crowd” mainly agree with you Do I?

So, now go and look at all my posts, count the percentage that criticise for the sake of it, or attack players before they've even played a game for us, then compare it to my overall post count, and work out the percentage.

That’s the point… You believe that if you criticize a player manager tactics etc
That your criticisms are justified and mine are not??... Rather arrogant I think

Now do the same for your posts.

Go a head and do so, am confident that I have been consistent in what I have said

You see, criticising after the fact is a lot f**king different than doing it before a player has even kicked a ball in anger for us.

Being able to spot when something is not quite right has it advantages too

This is what you don't seem to grasp.
If he plays sh*t, then by all means fire away, except I think this is something you are waiting for so you can jump up and say "told ya so" at the first sign of poor form. .

I do not need to grasp anything….I gave an opinion on what I saw and waded in with “you know noting about football” and unlike you I do not need to tell people or have people tell me that I am right when I am… If I feel something is wrong I speak out…I do not do it for the adulation

Again though, the thing you seem to be having trouble with, is the fact that he hasn't even played a competitive game for us and yet you're sticking the boot in.

As I said when I see that something is not right I speak out

Like I said before, get behind him, get behind the team, get behind the manager.
That's the Liverpool Way, assuming you know what that means.

And as I said before “The way you do”? Also I have been told three or four meanings to the phase the “Liverpool Way” so yes I am not sure what it means… I believe that if you support a club then you do it how you see fit and no one has a right to tell you other wise
Anyway feel free to have the last word (I don’t need to) I am done with this one

this is what happens when we try to argue about things we don't actually know.....

I hope sturridge is fit soon and he and benteke can form a partnership.

Sturridge is a goalscorer ... a fowler torres owen type player. Benteke for me is a workhorse ... but i dont see him creating something for himself out of nothing and winning a game for us.

Im not knocking him ... just my opinion. I dont see benteke as our 20+ goal saviour.

What does anyone else think?

I hope sturridge is fit soon and he and benteke can form a partnership.

Sturridge is a goalscorer ... a fowler torres owen type player. Benteke for me is a workhorse ... but i dont see him creating something for himself out of nothing and winning a game for us.

Im not knocking him ... just my opinion. I dont see benteke as our 20+ goal saviour.

What does anyone else think?

He could be, we just need to find a system which gets him into goal scoring positions, because to me he looks like a player who will run in-behind the oppositions defense. We just need to find a way to free him up and perhaps with Coutinho and Firminho attacking at the same time this may occur.

I hope sturridge is fit soon and he and benteke can form a partnership.

Sturridge is a goalscorer ... a fowler torres owen type player. Benteke for me is a workhorse ... but i dont see him creating something for himself out of nothing and winning a game for us.

Im not knocking him ... just my opinion. I dont see benteke as our 20+ goal saviour.

What does anyone else think?

Lallana has the ball and it is either wait to long to pass it off or do nothing with it at all....Ibe had the ball and he dribbled directly to the goal line where we got a corner or it was late off kilter attempt at a cross.

If our outside players don't want to try and get him the ball I don't know what he is supposed to do; Milner/Henderson/Couts were the only 3 even trying to involve him in the match.

Sub-out Lallana/Ibe for Firmino/Can play it for a few matches and see if that does not improve it.

I hope sturridge is fit soon and he and benteke can form a partnership.

Sturridge is a goalscorer ... a fowler torres owen type player. Benteke for me is a workhorse ... but i dont see him creating something for himself out of nothing and winning a game for us.

Im not knocking him ... just my opinion. I dont see benteke as our 20+ goal saviour.

What does anyone else think?

Agree, don't think he's a 20+ a season striker either. He doesn't create enough chances for himself to be that, but also agree with AZ that in the way we played in the first 65 mins today any striker would struggle.

Lallana has the ball and it is either wait to long to pass it off or do nothing with it at all....Ibe had the ball and he dribbled directly to the goal line where we got a corner or it was late off kilter attempt at a cross.

If our outside players don't want to try and get him the ball I don't know what he is supposed to do; Milner/Henderson/Couts were the only 3 even trying to involve him in the match.

Sub-out Lallana/Ibe for Firmino/Can play it for a few matches and see if that does not improve it.

Spot on mate, once we get everyone up to speed I can see the 4-3-3 working very nicely for us. Ibe, while I think he has potential to be superb does need to vary it up more, he tried way too hard to always beat his man. I like the fact he can beat his man and it often ended up with us having possession higher up the pitch (corner/throw) but he must change the style because at some stages Stoke had 4 men on him because they became confident he wouldn't release the ball unless he reached the dead ball line.

If he just draws the men to him and lays it off he's already given us an advantage and begins to get the opposition guessing.

Thankfully he's just 19 so there's plenty of time for him to adapt like this.

If he just draws the men to him and lays it off he's already given us an advantage and begins to get the opposition guessing.

If he starts doing that on a regular basis Luke it releases other players into space.  It's too easy for the opposition to nullify him by surrounding him but if he learns to lay it off as they all approach he'll make such a difference.  Ok they'll all stop closing him down but then he can use his pace to go past them.

I know he's only 19 but if he doesn't start to show he's learning in his decision making he's not going to progress to the level we want him to. 

If he starts doing that on a regular basis Luke it releases other players into space.  It's too easy for the opposition to nullify him by surrounding him but if he learns to lay it off as they all approach he'll make such a difference.  Ok they'll all stop closing him down but then he can use his pace to go past them.

I know he's only 19 but if he doesn't start to show he's learning in his decision making he's not going to progress to the level we want him to. 

Yeah spot on Debs.

Just caught up with motd2 from last night, Danny Murphy did a nice little analysis of Benteks's performance yesterday and how he fitted in. There is still clearly a lot of work to do from a playing style perspective but there were a few encouraging signs when you look at some of the individual passages of play. It was good to see him looking to play on the shoulder, drift off defenders and look to be a threat in behind. I also think he has another 3-4 games before he is up to fitness given he only played one pre-season game soot will be interesting to see how he integrates Adam develops over the next few games.

I was surprised by how many aerial duels he lost.  For someone who is allegedly a beast in the air he sure gets outjumped a lot.

I was surprised by how many aerial duels he lost.  For someone who is allegedly a beast in the air he sure gets outjumped a lot.

That's not true though is it, he won a lot more than he lost. Normally we don't win any with Sturridge or Sterling up front.

I was surprised by how many aerial duels he lost.  For someone who is allegedly a beast in the air he sure gets outjumped a lot.

Bollox.

Benteke won most of the aerial duels in the first half and 64% overall in the game.

So what are you going to make up about his performance next?

Benteke won most of the aerial duels in the first half and 64% overall in the game.

Just said that it was surprising, that's all.  I remember several times where he dropped back in midfield to get on to one of the kicks from Mignolet and he didn't get anywhere near the ball.

And 64%, is that.... good?  Is 64% "aerial beast" territory?  I would have thought you would need to be upwards of 90% for that....