Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

I just wish he'd stop using Lallana in the front 3 when it's clearly not working. I'd be interested to see how Wijnaldum does in that position instead. We need Lallana in the middle so much.

I'd like a poll up asking who has actually sold something they didn't want to sell or bought something knowing it's massively overpriced and that you can buy it later at its proper price.

I don't know if average  people are often given the chance to sell something they don't want to? I tried to imagine a person randomly coming up with an offer for your car while you're stuck in traffic? Or someone knocking on your door saying they want your house? So I guess that's not really relevant Examples of clubs selling players they supposedly wanted to keep are many, though!

As for buying stuff at their proper price later, what personally frustrates me is that it could also be earlier, especially considering our strong financial position. No point crying over spilled milk (not sure if that expression exists in English ), I know, but it still annoys me.

Back to Klopp - he's boss, he's doing more than I even expected at this point, let's just hope we can keep pushing on, new players or not.

I just wish he'd stop using Lallana in the front 3 when it's clearly not working. I'd be interested to see how Wijnaldum does in that position instead. We need Lallana in the middle so much.

Agreed. He's the one who really pushes us forward. Hendo is too far back for that, and Gini keeps the flow of the game going, but rarely runs with the ball. Lallana is the one who breaks defenses, easily one of the best players in the Premier League this season IMO - when he's in midfield. I think Klopp will play him there vs Southampton.

Is it? Well, I think he's speaking the truth. He said we would like to sign players but are struggling because clubs would find it hard to replace them in January. I believe that. His exact words, for reference, were "the players we want because we think they help us, the clubs don’t sell. It is not about money in this situation, it is the winter transfer window."

What I don't think this implies is that clubs wouldn't sell for any kind of money. That's rubbish and simply not true.

The underlying context here is that the club will not simply going to spend any sort of money, and Klopp's own approach is not to just throw money at problems, he seems far more reluctant to do that than other managers. So when he says it's not about money, I believe him - in this context. However if we just offered 60m for Pulisic (again just an easy example), would they not sell? Do you actually believe that?

More of your "underlying context" that is just your opinion, but you are trying to make it a truth.
It's not.
If the club will simply not spend any sort of money, explain why we have so many £20m plus players and £30m plus players in our squad.

This is yet another tired and boring old myth that gets bandied around.

Again, in case you missed it previously; Klopp has said that the owners have backed him whenever he asks them to, and that he has plenty of money to spend.
If Klopp chooses not to spend it immediately, or wants to wait until the right player becomes available, that's down to him, and nothing to do with the club simply not wanting to spend any amount of money.

Carry on with this without me.
I just can't be arsed, because for me it's very simple.
Klopp talks straight, and that's good enough for me.
If you want to carry on with fantasies involving "reading between the lines" or "underlying context" or some other strange fantasy where an unsubstantiated opinion suddenly becomes a fact, then crack on, but I honestly can't be arsed with it.

If the club will simply not spend any sort of money, explain why we have so many £20m plus players and £30m plus players in our squad.

We have one single £30m plus player in our squad And 3 over £20m if I'm not mistaken. If you think that means the club is willing to spend any sort of money, then there you go, this debate is pointless. Strange fantasy indeed.

If we're going over Klopp's words and taking them at "face value" (because apparently it's really important that we all do), why not take this into consideration: "Clubs are saying ‘No, we have half a year to go, we cannot find another player like this, we prefer to take money in the summer than a few pounds more in the winter than whatever’." A few pounds more? What about a lot?

How long before Klopp is sacked for not making use of the transfer funds readily available to him to sign a striker and/or defenders? It was certainly a lack of skill in those areas which saw us humiliated at the weekend.
The owners or their agents must be aware of the fact and ipso facto the inability of whoever it concerns to satisfactorily address the problem when the funds are freely available.
This in turn constitutes a failing in the very well paid role of manager of LFC..

We have witnessed the results of such failings four times in the seven years NESV have been with us. If Klopp continues to not spend funds that are freely available will he also get the bullet?

How many previous managers were sacked because they refused to spend money that was freely available?

JWH&Co must be F***ing sick of opening new accounts to store all this unspent dosh.

Somebody is telling porkies methinks, is it Klopp? Or is it JWH&Co?   

There's some people getting very confused and hot under the collar on here for no apparent reason. Jürgen is telling the truth when he says other clubs "don't want to sell their best players". It's a bit like when people say "If I'm there I'm there, if I'm not I'm not", so stunningly simple and obvious is the logic there's no way you can argue with it. Equally, I have no reason to disbelieve Jürgen when he says that the club have tried to sign players, equally if he's saying we are prepared to offer "a premium" I believe him also.

The reason we have been unsuccessful in our attempts so far are fairly obvious too.

One, as Jürgen says himself it is the middle of the season and the selling clubs would have difficulty replacing the players. The best way to counteract this is to buy players in the Summer, that way you don't run into the same problem.

Two, I think everyone would agree if you are absolutely desperate other clubs can have you over, and any "premium" can become more than you're prepared to pay. If for example you only have one bloke with pace and he is away on extended International duty, the selling clubs of a similar player may realise that they have you by the bollocks and demand a higher price. The way around this one is to check in the fixture calendar, work out when said player is likely to be unavailable and have a player in place BEFORE you desperately need him.

Thirdly, you have to on occasions be prepared to dig deep financially. This may come in the form of paying an inflated transfer fee, inflated wages, perhaps signing a player who will have limited/zero resale value, perhaps even all three! Because "premium offers" are only usually premium on OUR valuation, NOT the selling club. Clearly for example Jermain Defoe at 35 years old or whatever he is isn't worth 15 million quid, BUT HE IS TO SUNDERLAND. As such, if you wish to buy him you are going to have to pay a ridiculous fee, but (and here's the rub) if he's worth in excess of 15 million quid to you (say for example you're Crystal palace and he keeps you in the Premiership), then he's cheap!

Now, my argument is that winning the league or at least seriously challenging for it was/is worth paying a big premium for. Bigger than we have so far shown a willingness to do, otherwise we would have signed some players (which even Jürgen seems to be admitting that we really could do with now, the penny is dropping). As someone said earlier, Jürgen won't be doing to negotiating himself, he just does the press conferences when the players become "unavailable".

FSG should ask the manager who he wants then go buy him, it's not like Jürgen is asking for Lionel Messi or Christiano Ronaldo or Gareth Bale FFS.       

On the Jermaine Defoe point, just a quick discaimer. I'm not saying we ought to sign Jermaine Defoe, I'm just using him as a "for instance". I wasn't saying we should buy Chris Brunt earlier either, you've got to laugh sometimes  .

Newcastle never found a replacement for their starting number 9. We just paid them enough to convince them to sell.

I also can't see what's so difficult to understand about that. You can always pay enough to convince a club to go without a player. And no, they won't be living in the streets during the winter because of that they already have a squad and will have to make do with someone else in the starting eleven, hardly the end of the world.

If we're not willing to go far enough because we think it's too much, then fair enough. There must be a ceiling somewhere, which is perfectly normal. We just can't possibly know how high or low that ceiling is, which is where it becomes subjective. Some people will think we've tried hard enough; some won't; there are no certainties here.

We paid over the odds and he flopped.

We have one single £30m plus player in our squad And 3 over £20m if I'm not mistaken. If you think that means the club is willing to spend any sort of money, then there you go, this debate is pointless. Strange fantasy indeed.

If we're going over Klopp's words and taking them at "face value" (because apparently it's really important that we all do), why not take this into consideration: "Clubs are saying ‘No, we have half a year to go, we cannot find another player like this, we prefer to take money in the summer than a few pounds more in the winter than whatever’." A few pounds more? What about a lot?

There is no debate.

Talking about chucking 60 million quid for a 20 million pound player is pure fantasy, and only a moron would do it.

Try to at least keep things in the realms of possibilities.

And yes, I think it is important that we take Klopp's words at face value.
That's called trust, rather than inventing "underlying contexts" or whatever it is you want to do.

I'm a pretty simple bloke.
If Klopp says something, I'll believe him until shown conclusive proof that he hasn't been truthful, so no offense, but your opinion about what you think is behind his words is of no importance to me, simply because on the one hand there's a straight talking bloke who (as far as any of us can tell) has been dead straight with us from day one, and on the other hand there's a bloke on an internet forum talking about all sorts of fantasy situations that will never happen in the real world, and reading things into an interview which are unsubstantiated opinion, and in all probability, just complete made up sh*te.

We paid over the odds and he flopped.

but that's not the point mate is it? Chelsea paid over the odds for Torres first, he flopped so we bought Carroll and Luis. It happened to be a good deal for us overall, but even THAT isn't the point. The point is that players are available if you are prepared to splash the cash, simples.

We paid over the odds and he flopped.

It's only 'over the odds' if he flops though, isn't it? I thought £35m for Mané was also too much money, but the way he's playing, who gives a F**k anyway.

but that's not the point mate is it? Chelsea paid over the odds for Torres first, he flopped so we bought Carroll and Luis. It happened to be a good deal for us overall, but even THAT isn't the point. The point is that players are available if you are prepared to splash the cash, simples.

Some players might be.
I'd wager that many more are not available, and that not every owner is prepared to sacrifice his season like Ashley did for the sake of a few quid.
Then as Klopp says, they need to be the right players, which for us means the higher end of the market (not Championship or League 1), which in turn makes it even less likely that a club will sell because chances are the teams we want to buy off will be in the hunt for a trophy.

Then no doubt, if we did throw tens of millions at another club, the same people that are complaining we never spend would be complaining about us being had over.

It's the same sh*t in every window, most comical being the reactions when we don't buy the player some wanted, based on a report in a rag that the rest of the year they dismiss out of hand as bullshit.

Some players might be.
I'd wager that many more are not available, and that not every owner is prepared to sacrifice his season like Ashley did for the sake of a few quid.
Then as Klopp says, they need to be the right players, which for us means the higher end of the market (not Championship or League 1), which in turn makes it even less likely that a club will sell because chances are the teams we want to buy off will be in the hunt for a trophy.

Then no doubt, if we did throw tens of millions at another club, the same people that are complaining we never spend would be complaining about us being had over.

It's the same sh*t in every window, most comical being the reactions when we don't buy the player some wanted, based on a report in a rag that the rest of the year they dismiss out of hand as bullshit.

To be honest Swab I'm less concerned about who we didn't buy than I am that we didn't buy anyone. The squad obviously needed freshening up that I cannot believe there was nobody in the World available at any price who could have fitted the bill. 

There is no debate.

Talking about chucking 60 million quid for a 20 million pound player is pure fantasy, and only a moron would do it.

Try to at least keep things in the realms of possibilities.

And yes, I think it is important that we take Klopp's words at face value.
That's called trust, rather than inventing "underlying contexts" or whatever it is you want to do.

I'm a pretty simple bloke.
If Klopp says something, I'll believe him until shown conclusive proof that he hasn't been truthful, so no offense, but your opinion about what you think is behind his words is of no importance to me, simply because on the one hand there's a straight talking bloke who (as far as any of us can tell) has been dead straight with us from day one, and on the other hand there's a bloke on an internet forum talking about all sorts of fantasy situations that will never happen in the real world, and reading things into an interview which are unsubstantiated opinion, and in all probability, just complete made up sh*te.

Haha. "Only a moron", "no offense". Yes, Swab. Very mature of you.

Instead of attacking the message and not the messenger, why don't you engage with my arguments then? You said the number of £20m+ and £30m+ players in our squad proves the club is prepared to spend. I questioned that, as we don't actually have that many - I'd think most top EPL clubs have 5+ players bought for over £30m as opposed to our only one (Sadio Mane).

I mentioned that Pulisic was an easy example. You say he's a 20m player (apparently you rang his agent to find out his fixed value in the market, for you surely wouldn't base it on a report in a rag). What if instead of 60m, we talk about 30m? Let's consider Klopp's words at face value in the full. Did we offer "a few pounds more" or a lot more?

To be honest Swab I'm less concerned about who we didn't buy than I am that we didn't buy anyone. The squad obviously needed freshening up that I cannot believe there was nobody in the World available at any price who could have fitted the bill.

Fair enough.
That's down to Klopp wanting to wait until he can get his preferred player though.
I don't really agree with him on that, but it's his team to build and looking at how he's done things in the past it takes him 2-3 seasons to really build and mould his team into what he wants.

Then as Klopp says, they need to be the right players, which for us means the higher end of the market (not Championship or League 1), which in turn makes it even less likely that a club will sell because chances are the teams we want to buy off will be in the hunt for a trophy.

Because we only sign players from top clubs, right? Like Southampton or Newcastle (who are in the Championship, ironically). Or Augsburg.

Haha. "Only a moron", "no offense". Yes, Swab. Very mature of you.

Instead of attacking the message and not the messenger, why don't you engage with my arguments then? You said the number of £20m+ and £30m+ players in our squad proves the club is prepared to spend. I questioned that, as we don't actually have that many - I'd think most top EPL clubs have 5+ players bought for over £30m as opposed to our only one (Sadio Mane).

I mentioned that Pulisic was an easy example. You say he's a 20m player (apparently you rang his agent to find out his fixed value in the market, for you surely wouldn't base it on a report in a rag). What if instead of 60m, we talk about 30m? Let's consider Klopp's words at face value in the full. Did we offer "a few pounds more" or a lot more?

So you think it wouldn't be moronic to chuck 60 million quid at a £20 million player?
You think that would be entirely sensible do you?

I'm not engaging with your arguments because you are in a fantasy world where saying something could happen means it should happen, no matter how outrageous.

20 million, whatever, it's just a figure to use as an example, and I didn't actually mention any players or their worth, so try again.

Now read back what I actually wrote, and tell me how many players we have spent 20 million + and 30 million + since FSG came in, and when you've done that, stop peddling the myth that they won't spend.
It's bollocks, and you know it is.

When you post something worth engaging with instead of fantasy, semantics and things you made up in your head about "underlying context" I might do it.
Then again, I might not, because I find nothing more boring than talking about fantasy scenarios which will never happen in the real world.

Because we only sign players from top clubs, right? Like Southampton or Newcastle (who are in the Championship, ironically). Or Augsburg.

Southampton are in the top flight, no?
Newcastle have been for years, and will be again in the top flight, and we bought one of their few remaining quality players, who is also an international player.
Augsberg as well play top flight football, do they not?

Top flight football is the higher end of the market, is it not?

If there's a higher value market than top flight football, it only exists in china in a hugely over-inflated way that is unsustainable.

Have we made an official approach for anyone ?

Have we made an official approach for anyone ?

Steven Gerrard.

Have we made an official approach for anyone ?

According to Jürgen yes, but no one wants to sell to us.

But oddly when someone wants one of our best players, we find a way to make it happen for them.

Have we made an official approach for anyone ?

Ask Swab

Just be careful how you do so 

According to Jürgen yes, but no one wants to sell to us.

But oddly when someone wants one of our best players, we find a way to make it happen for them.

You're right there, in what you say mate, we do make a notional effort to keep them, even manage to get one more season out of them, but ultimately they go... There's been hints at it being because of the way we build long term and these players aren't willing to see it out because it will take too long.. But they go and we start again, but we aren't as ruthless at bringing them in the other way, this squad has the basis of greatness, what it needs really is a couple of in their prime players, or right on the cusp like we got when Suarez and Torres signed, we could get them but they cost a premium and that's too far for us it seems.. Klopps brought them before so it's not that he's adverse to it
But it's more often than not thinking of the future, of next season or the next five years..

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing, and to be honest we did a lot of work on the squad last summer, mainly in trimming off the sh*te, maybe more was had but as we stand right now we are two or three short, two or three of quality.. I have no doubt that more work will happen this summer and two or three of quality will come in, but right now it does feel a little late, and that we are missing a trick this season.. Frustrating as F**k even for ones like myself who are willing to accept January is difficult.. But maybe the summer gone we should have brought more in and not be feeling short now.

I'm a half full type of fan, I like to look positively, but F**k me I haven't been as fu**ed off with a result like I was Saturday fo a long long time.. I felt we went into it all wrong and we paid for that and the squad is looking so stretched now.