Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

Well I'm glad we missed out on Vidic, seeing as Nando had his F***ing number every time we played them cu*ts. You also forgot Dani Alves as well, don't forget Rafa wanted him and that coco the clown c**t thought he knew better.

By the way do you really have an alarm that goes off everytime someone slags off FSG?

Yeah, but at that time Nando was one of the best around, and not many could live with him and his pace and strength.
I'd have taken him.

Slag off FSG by all means; my feelings about their structured wage strategy that relies heavily on incentives are well known, but it's a crock of sh*t to say we always lowball wages or pay a lot less than the other teams fighting for top 4, especially since we just gave Coutinho a new contract worth 200k a week.
The problem isn't one of not paying high wages, because we do when the player merits those wages, the problem is that we don't have the experienced players to go with some excellent young players.
The problem is one we've had for decades; getting the mix right, with the right players who complement each other and work as a unit, combined with adequate backup on the bench.
It's nothing new, and is an incredibly hard fix, with Rafa the only manager who came close.

Yeah, but at that time Nando was one of the best around, and not many could live with him and his pace and strength.
I'd have taken him.

Slag off FSG by all means; my feelings about their structured wage strategy that relies heavily on incentives are well known, but it's a crock of sh*t to say we always lowball wages or pay a lot less than the other teams fighting for top 4, especially since we just gave Coutinho a new contract worth 200k a week.
The problem isn't one of not paying high wages, because we do when the player merits those wages, the problem is that we don't have the experienced players to go with some excellent young players.
The problem is one we've had for decades; getting the mix right, with the right players who complement each other and work as a unit, combined with adequate backup on the bench.
It's nothing new, and is an incredibly hard fix, with Rafa the only manager who came close.

But look at the players we have missed out on while they've been in charge, cos we fu**ed about trying to be a bit too cute doing deals. Off the top of my head Willian, Alli, Costa, Sanchez and that bloke at the mancs now, all have been successes in this league and we probably could have had at least a couple of them.

Not sure about the wage cap but take away wages for non players etc, I doubt we pay higher wages to the players than Arsenal.

Take it with a grain of salt considering the source but probably not too far off.

Arsenal Player Wages & Contracts 2016-17
PLAYER   AGE   WEEKLY WAGE   CONTRACT LEFT
Petr Cech            £100,000   
David Ospina       £40,000   (3 Years) 2019      
Shkodran Mustafi    £90,000   (5 years) 2021
Laurent Koscielny   £75,000   (1 Year) 2017
Gabriel Paulista   £50,000   (3 Years) 2019
Calum Chambers   £20,000   (4 Years) 2020
Per Mertesacker   £70,000   (1 Year) 2017
Rob Holding       £10,000   
Krystian Bielik      £5,000   
Nacho Monreal         £65,000   
Kieran Gibbs      £60,000   
Héctor Belleríni   £50,000   
Carl Jenkinson      £45,000   
Mathieu Debuchy   £70,000   
Francis Coqueli    £45,000   
Mohamed Elneny     £40,000   
Aaron Ramsey          £110,000   
Granit Xhaka           £90,000   
Santi Cazorla         £90,000   
Mesut Özil         £140,000   
Alex Iwobi         £30,000   
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain      £65,000   
Alexis Sánchez  £140,000
Serge Gnabry   £15,000   
Theo Walcott   £110,000   
Olivier Giroud   £100,000
Danny Welbeck £70,000
Lucas Perez    £70,000   

Total £1,865,000/ week


Liverpool Player Wages & Contracts 2016-17

Simon Mignolet   £60,000   5 Years (2021)
Loris Karius         £15,000   5 Years (2021)
Alex Manninger   £5,000   1 Year (2017)
Joel Matip            £70,000   4 Years (2020)
Dejan Lovren      £65,000   3 Years (2019)
Ragnar Klavan      £55,000   3 Years (2019)
Joe Gomez       £10,000   4 Years (2020)
Tiago Ilori            £10,000   2 Years (2018)
Alberto Moreno     £40,000   3 Years (2019)
Nathaniel Clyne          £70,000   4 Years (2020)
Andre Wisdom            £10,000   3 Years (2019)
Emre Can            £55,000   2 Years (2018)
Lucas Leiva       £80,000   1 Year (2017)
Kevin Stewart                  4 Years (2020)
Jordan Henderson   £100,000  4 Years (2020)
James Milner          £120,000   
Marko Grujic             £15,000   4 Years (2020)
Philippe Coutinho    £200,000   6 Years (2022)
Georginio Wijnaldum £90,000   5 Years (2021)
Adam Lallana        £65,000   3 Years (2019)
Sadio Mané         £90,000   5 Years (2021)
Sheyi Ojo             £1,000   4 Years (2020)
Roberto Firmino   £100,000   4 Years (2020)
Daniel Sturridge   £120,000   3 Years (2019)
Danny Ings      £60,000   
Divock Origi      £25,000

Total- £1,531,000

But look at the players we have missed out on while they've been in charge, cos we fu**ed about trying to be a bit too cute doing deals. Off the top of my head Willian, Alli, Costa, Sanchez and that bloke at the mancs now, all have been successes in this league and we probably could have had at least a couple of them.

Willian was playing games mate, you know that. He played the spuds and chavs off against each other, and was doing the same with us.
Alli was a fuckup, but hindsight is great, as you said before, he could just as easily been a flop.
God knows we've had enough of them over the years, like the record we paid for a teenager, and whoever was a particular season's "New Zidane".
Costa, I really don't rate, and with Sanchez we offered better wages than Arsenal, but he still wanted to go there.

You know how it goes these days; agents briefing journo's to try and get better deals or force a move, and players with little or no loyalty saying they'd always been a fan of whatever club they're trying to engineer a move to.
Under FSG we've bought some dross, same as we did under h&g and under Moores and Parry, but we've also bought some proper players.
To say we don't land players because we don't/won't pay the wages is wide of the mark imo.

Fact is, when this lot came in we were a non CL side paying CL wages, and both the first team and squad needed rebuilding.
Let's not forget who it was left Kuyt on the bench for most of a season, so he could be offloaded.

We can do better, a LOT better in the transfer market, but there's really only 3 teams that consistently pay more than us, and that's because they have a shitload more money.

Says a report that originated in the Evening Standard, a paper so good they have to give it away.
Both Ozil and Sanchez are on 140k, and according to that source, Arsenal are going to shatter their own wage structure and more than double his wages?
I don't think so.

Sorry, but I don't believe that one of the finest attacking players on the planet is on 140k at Arsenal, regardless of their wage structure...

Take it with a grain of salt considering the source but probably not too far off.

Arsenal Player Wages & Contracts 2016-17
PLAYER   AGE   WEEKLY WAGE   CONTRACT LEFT
Petr Cech            £100,000   
David Ospina       £40,000   (3 Years) 2019      
Shkodran Mustafi    £90,000   (5 years) 2021
Laurent Koscielny   £75,000   (1 Year) 2017
Gabriel Paulista   £50,000   (3 Years) 2019
Calum Chambers   £20,000   (4 Years) 2020
Per Mertesacker   £70,000   (1 Year) 2017
Rob Holding       £10,000   
Krystian Bielik      £5,000   
Nacho Monreal         £65,000   
Kieran Gibbs      £60,000   
Héctor Belleríni   £50,000   
Carl Jenkinson      £45,000   
Mathieu Debuchy   £70,000   
Francis Coqueli    £45,000   
Mohamed Elneny     £40,000   
Aaron Ramsey          £110,000   
Granit Xhaka           £90,000   
Santi Cazorla         £90,000   
Mesut Özil         £140,000   
Alex Iwobi         £30,000   
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain      £65,000   
Alexis Sánchez  £140,000
Serge Gnabry   £15,000   
Theo Walcott   £110,000   
Olivier Giroud   £100,000
Danny Welbeck £70,000
Lucas Perez    £70,000   

Total £1,865,000/ week


Liverpool Player Wages & Contracts 2016-17

Simon Mignolet   £60,000   5 Years (2021)
Loris Karius         £15,000   5 Years (2021)
Alex Manninger   £5,000   1 Year (2017)
Joel Matip            £70,000   4 Years (2020)
Dejan Lovren      £65,000   3 Years (2019)
Ragnar Klavan      £55,000   3 Years (2019)
Joe Gomez       £10,000   4 Years (2020)
Tiago Ilori            £10,000   2 Years (2018)
Alberto Moreno     £40,000   3 Years (2019)
Nathaniel Clyne          £70,000   4 Years (2020)
Andre Wisdom            £10,000   3 Years (2019)
Emre Can            £55,000   2 Years (2018)
Lucas Leiva       £80,000   1 Year (2017)
Kevin Stewart                  4 Years (2020)
Jordan Henderson   £100,000  4 Years (2020)
James Milner          £120,000   
Marko Grujic             £15,000   4 Years (2020)
Philippe Coutinho    £200,000   6 Years (2022)
Georginio Wijnaldum £90,000   5 Years (2021)
Adam Lallana        £65,000   3 Years (2019)
Sadio Mané         £90,000   5 Years (2021)
Sheyi Ojo             £1,000   4 Years (2020)
Roberto Firmino   £100,000   4 Years (2020)
Daniel Sturridge   £120,000   3 Years (2019)
Danny Ings      £60,000   
Divock Origi      £25,000

Total- £1,531,000

You need to take an average to get a true reflection.
Arsenal have a squad that's a fair bit bigger.

Sorry, but I don't believe that one of the finest attacking players on the planet is on 140k at Arsenal, regardless of their wage structure...

But you believe the Evening Standard when they say he's going to get 300k a week?

OK.

You need to take an average to get a true reflection.
Arsenal have a squad that's a fair bit bigger.

In the end there is City,United, Chelsea that pay and will pay the most; then there is Arsenal and LFC....Spurs are a bit of a tweener as they don't pay as much as Arsenal and LFC but sit in there above everyone else.

In the end there is City,United, Chelsea that pay and will pay the most; then there is Arsenal and LFC....Spurs are a bit of a tweener as they don't pay as much as Arsenal and LFC but sit in there above everyone else.

Yep, agreed.

So, going back to my original point, the idea that we don't or won't pay high wages is pretty much nonsense.

True, we don't pay wages as high as city, chelsea or united, but given their money compared to our own, it's difficult to see how we could compete with them.

But you believe the Evening Standard when they say he's going to get 300k a week?

OK.

Well for a start, I don't recall the source and I haven't read any newspaper in decades. But for the player that Sanchez is, why would they not break the bank to keep him? As stated before, he's one of the finest attacking players in world football. Hell, we broke the bank to tie Suarez down to a contract, three seasons ago, and the money in the game now has superseded then so what's the difference?

But you believe the Evening Standard when they say he's going to get 300k a week?

OK.

They supposedly offered him £300 but he is leaving; he has been on £140 since he got there, and to be fair Arsenal could pay him that as they really can afford too.

Yep, agreed.

So, going back to my original point, the idea that we don't or won't pay high wages is pretty much nonsense.

True, we don't pay wages as high as city, chelsea or united, but given their money compared to our own, it's difficult to see how we could compete with them.

I don't disagree but we really need to have better quality/size of our squad especially #'s 12-20.

Well for a start, I don't recall the source and I haven't read any newspaper in decades. But for the player that Sanchez is, why would they not break the bank to keep him? As stated before, he's one of the finest attacking players in world football. Hell, we broke the bank to tie Suarez down to a contract, three seasons ago, and the money in the game now has superseded then so what's the difference?

If you think he's one of the finest attacking players in world football, and on a par with Suarez, then great, carry on.

For me he's a level below Suarez, who in turn is a level below Messi and Ronaldo.

Personally, I don't think he's worth anything like 300k.

Finally, this rumour originated with the Evening Standard.
As a source, it's right up there with the Metro and gimmefootball and other sh*t sites.
But you believe what you want mate,; he's not our player so I don't really care very much what he earns.
The only thing I care about is that we offered him more than arsenal did but he turned us down anyway.

I don't disagree but we really need to have better quality/size of our squad especially #'s 12-20.

I said before about having a core of 14/15 players who will play most league games, with the remaining squad made up of youth and older players.
I imagine there'll be a few going out, with better coming in, but I also don't know of many teams who could lose Henderson, Mane, Lallana, Sturridge for any period of time and be pushing for the title.
I think if we get top 4 we'll have done very well given our injuries.

That's certainly a different story from the one I know, and I'm pretty sure he didn't match the highest earners at United.

Regardless, the point is, it's nothing new, and it will always be the case while we have a finite budget.

Both Arsenal and Spurs also pay lower wages than us, and have a wage cap.

Houllier said we would have had to break the wage structure in order to give him the money he wanted. Not hard to figure out that he was expecting to be among the highest paid.
As for his United wage, chances are he got what he was after with us, but as is the case still, they had higher paid players than is so it wouldn't have been a case of matching them ones. In fact I believe it was 35k a week he was on when he first went to United which gives you an indication what he was wanting from us and back in 2003 that was a massive amount for a player of that age

Arsenal don't pay lower wages than us, the money Sanchez and Ozil alone are on is a lot, then you've got Cech, Koscielny, Walcott who are all high earners.

Sorry, but I don't believe that one of the finest attacking players on the planet is on 140k at Arsenal, regardless of their wage structure...

Arsenal do have a very rigid pay structure, all the talk amongst their fans is whether they're prepared to break it to keep Sanchez, hence the rumours linking him with Chelsea.

Houllier said we would have had to break the wage structure in order to give him the money he wanted. Not hard to figure out that he was expecting to be among the highest paid.
As for his United wage, chances are he got what he was after with us, but as is the case still, they had higher paid players than is so it wouldn't have been a case of matching them ones. In fact I believe it was 35k a week he was on when he first went to United which gives you an indication what he was wanting from us and back in 2003 that was a massive amount for a player of that age

Arsenal don't pay lower wages than us, the money Sanchez and Ozil alone are on is a lot, then you've got Cech, Koscielny, Walcott who are all high earners.

It was Parry who refused outright, "for a player that age, his demands are ridiculous" was what I think he said, which isn't quite the same thing at all.

Ozil and Sanchez are on 140k a week.
Take a look at the figures AZPatriot posted, you might be surprised.

Coutinho (our highest earner) is on 200k, and if you believe rumours, Firmino and Mane will be getting bumper rises as well.

It's immaterial really, we've never been the highest payers, for many years we had a wage cap (so did man u, and Arsenal do as well now, as do Spurs) and we consistently fed them the line that they would come here for success, not for money.

Bottom line is that we pay our top performers very well, but we also need to start getting rid of the incentivised contracts (if we haven't already) for established players coming in.
Those contracts are fine for the younger lads, but for the players we need to build a team for a title bid, it simply won't do.

It was Parry who refused outright, "for a player that age, his demands are ridiculous" was what I think he said, which isn't quite the same thing at all.

Well it is the same thing though isn't it. You have even put a quote about the ridiculous amount of money that he wanted which is what I was saying but you disagreed with. You can't have it both ways.

Houllier; "we had a wage scale and we weren’t paying the sort of salary he wanted"

But, to use your word, it's all immaterial and nothing to do with Klopp.

Seems a long time ago now but I was living in France when it was reported (2008-9 ish) that we had a serious interest in Eden Hazard who was plying his trade at Lille. 
Came to nowt .

Well it is the same thing though isn't it. You have even put a quote about the ridiculous amount of money that he wanted which is what I was saying but you disagreed with. You can't have it both ways.

Houllier; "we had a wage scale and we weren’t paying the sort of salary he wanted"

Do you think that the club has a sliding scale for different players in different teams?
For instance, the lads signing their first pro contract would receive up to X amount, then if they progress to U21, they go up a notch, then U23 another notch, then first team another notch.
That, to me is a wage structure/scale, not just automatically assuming he'd be on the same as our highest earners of the time, but would be earning far more than his peers in the comparable wage scale for 18 year olds.

Edit to add, we also saw that with Sterling, where his wages shot right up when he broke into the first team.

Do you think that the club has a sliding scale for different players in different teams?
For instance, the lads signing their first pro contract would receive up to X amount, then if they progress to U21, they go up a notch, then U23 another notch, then first team another notch.
That, to me is a wage structure/scale, not just automatically assuming he'd be on the same as our highest earners of the time, but would be earning far more than his peers in the comparable wage scale for 18 year olds.

Then why would he have gone straight onto 35k at the Mancs? He wasn't going to be with U21's, 23's etc, for us or them.

Then why would he have gone straight onto 35k at the Mancs? He wasn't going to be with U21's, 23's etc, for us or them.

Maybe they could afford to take a gamble Parry didn't think was worth it?
Parry was a glorified accountant, not a football man, and whichever way you look at it, paying a kid who may or may not make it is a risk.
Parry set the wages, sorted the contracts, dealth with agents and everything else.

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that 35k a week was more than we were paying a host of international stars who were competing in the CL?
Because to me, that makes no sense.
If united offered him 35k a week, then that was a compromise they were prepared to make that we wouldn't; way above the youth or U21 scale, but also quite a bit below their top earners.

Maybe they could afford to take a gamble Parry didn't think was worth it?
Parry was a glorified accountant, not a football man, and whichever way you look at it, paying a kid who may or may not make it is a risk.
Parry set the wages, sorted the contracts, dealth with agents and everything else.

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that 35k a week was more than we were paying a host of international stars who were competing in the CL?
Because to me, that makes no sense.
If united offered him 35k a week, then that was a compromise they were prepared to make that we wouldn't; way above the youth or U21 scale, but also quite a bit below their top earners.

Sorry to wade in, I agree with there needing to be a wage structure in place and I'm sure at most clubs there is one. But I also believe you have to be willing to make exceptions, for exceptional talents. No one could have known how Ronaldo would turn out but I'm also willing to bet he stood out as head and shoulders above his peers of the same age and there would have been an indication he was not your average youngster.

And on the other end of the scale, I'm sure I've seen somewhere that Arsenal have a policy of only offering a 1 year contract if a player is over 30. Again for me that is ridiculous, players peak at different times and being their own individual qualities to a squad.

Personally I do think we seem way too rigid when it comes to our wage structure where we will refuse to budge from it.