Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

Let's not forget Can was carrying a calf injury for a lot of last season, and in his own words, flourished in a deeper position because he had less running to do.

I don't know if it's because he had very little pre-season training, after being away for a tourney with Germany, but he looks to me like a player that isn't quite up to speed yet.
I think he's a player who takes a bit longer to get full match fitness.
He's a big old boy for a footballer, and looks like he puts weight on easily.

Mitigation maybe?

Interesting. For me, Emre's attitude is his best trait. I don't recall his effort ever being a problem. His main drawback to me is brain cramp, usually involving giving the ball away as with the Spartak goal on Tuesday.

Yep like I said above we all see it differently......that's what makes a forum challenging in a positive and constructive way.

Now and again like

If I were Henderson, I'd be really pissed off with Can. Can is making him look sh*t because he constantly has to fill the gaps Can is leaving behind and people then think Henderson is out of position while he actually is doing exactly what Klopp expects him to do. The problem is that Can doesn't return the favour to cover Henderson when Henderson is covering for him.

Maybe Can did slack or make a mistake or 2 for those goals you mentioned (haven't watched back), but it's always the case that our ascending midfielders (#8/#10s) would take more risks (I think Can has been our most offensive midfielder when Coutinho hasn't been around) and inevitably lose the ball, but that's why you have specialists in the #6 role, right? What if we had a specialist #6 (Kroos, Matic, N'Zonzi, Kante, Casemiro etc) in our team, would the dangers have been nullified more often than not?

Which of Leicesters 2nd goals?   Can't recall thinking Can was at fault in either, certainly not more culpable that either other CM that the goal went in. But would need to look back. Anyway, can always pick out things - but in general, he puts in a LOT of work and covers a lot of ground. Yes he Can sometimes be slow getting back, but only recall 1 goal when he was asleep from a throw in (can't recall which match off the top of my head).
Regardless, when the onus is to be looking to attack, then tracking back etc. will suffer. He's still young, Hendo is a more experienced player, would expect his head to be more screwed on.
Don't completly disagree, just throwing in a defense of the lad.

The league game against Leicester, he wasn't in the squad for the cup game I think. The one with the throw in was Sevilla's second goal. I'm not saying he's the main culprit for any of those goals, other players make (bigger) mistakes too, but the annoying bit is he always does next to nothing to help the defence out when someone like Henderson is running his arse off trying to be in two places at once. His attacking play in and around the box has been pretty spot on this season (the assist for Mane's goal against Watford, the two goals against Hoffenheim, good game against Arsenal, ...) But good offensive play doesn't excuse a complete lack of effort on the other side of the pitch in my opinion.

The fact that he puts in a lot of work and covers a lot of ground, isn't entirely true either mate. I posted some numbers about ground covered, sprints made, etc. and he doesn't even come close to the numbers Wijnaldum and Henderson put up. In fact, I think he was about 25% behind the pair in almost every category. That's a lot.

Not saying he doesn't have his faults. Or dips in form.
But think he is a very good player for a young enough lad. He is abrasive and gets stuck in, something we don't have enough of in the squad.
Not sure what his contract situation is, but I'd be looking to renew it, rather than let him go.
If it came down to it, reckon most people would look to keep him too..

I also think he is a very good player, which makes it even more frustrating because he isn't showing how good he can be. Fully agree with the fact that he's abrasive and gets stuck in, something we indeed don't have enough of in the squad.

Let's not forget Can was carrying a calf injury for a lot of last season, and in his own words, flourished in a deeper position because he had less running to do.

I don't know if it's because he had very little pre-season training, after being away for a tourney with Germany, but he looks to me like a player that isn't quite up to speed yet.
I think he's a player who takes a bit longer to get full match fitness.
He's a big old boy for a footballer, and looks like he puts weight on easily.

Mitigation maybe?

Fair enough Swab, perhaps his reluctance to sign a new contract has made me view him as a bit of an outcast at the moment, therefore I'm overly critical of him. I don't believe it's that but I'm open to the thought that I'm subconsciously thinking he's a judas b***ard that doesn't appreciate the chance we've given him!

Bit harsh. Still has credit in the bank for me after probably the goal of the season last year, 3 pts in a game going nowhere, big reason imo we got a CL place.

See this is the point I never understand and please don't take this personally as I'm sure it's a commonly held view of things.

I align it to MotM votes, a player scores a goal and no matter how sh*te they are for the rest of the match you can damn well guarantee they'll be leading or near it and it's a pet hate of mine.

That goal, while undoubtedly stunning and worthy of lavish praise, was one kick in a match of 90 minutes. It wouldn't even come close to winning him the MotM vote if that's all he did, let alone buy credit in the "I can be lazy for a few matches now book", I value consistency above rare moments of supreme quality. Sturridge, in my opinion, is a player who benefits from this also, he can be completely out of the game for long periods then do something sublime (not necessarily score a goal) and that moment, while obviously the most memorable seems to override people's lasting impression. I honestly, hand on heart, do not understand that mentality and as I said it is by no means something you have alone, it's a common thing which I can't grasp.

Maybe Can did slack or make a mistake or 2 for those goals you mentioned (haven't watched back), but it's always the case that our ascending midfielders (#8/#10s) would take more risks (I think Can has been our most offensive midfielder when Coutinho hasn't been around) and inevitably lose the ball, but that's why you have specialists in the #6 role, right? What if we had a specialist #6 (Kroos, Matic, N'Zonzi, Kante, Casemiro etc) in our team, would the dangers have been nullified more often than not?

Specialist or not doesn't really matter mate. The player playing there will be given the same set instructions as Henderson is given. The midfield rotates and fills up the gaps when needed. So when Henderson plays there and a gap appears to the right because Can (or any midfielder who is playing there) is high up the pitch or not in position, Henderson will move to the right and cover the gap, the other midfielder needs to move over and try to fill the gap Henderson leaves. Wether that player is Henderson, Casemiro, Matic, ... doesn't really matter, they all will be given the same instructions by Klopp. So unless Klopp changes the way the midfield rotates, it won't make much of a difference. I've said it before in the Henderson Player Thread I think, Henderson being our #6 isn't the problem, the problem is the other midfielder(s) not doing their job.

And oh, Kroos isn't a specialist #6 mate  ! At some point (I think at the start of the season when Ancelotti was there) they tried playing Modric and Kroos in a 2-man midfield. That didn't work out at all and they had a pretty bad run of games. Casemiro is the #6, Kroos and Modric are the two playmakers.

Fair enough Swab, perhaps his reluctance to sign a new contract has made me view him as a bit of an outcast at the moment, therefore I'm overly critical of him. I don't believe it's that but I'm open to the thought that I'm subconsciously thinking he's a judas b***ard that doesn't appreciate the chance we've given him!

 
Same thoughts crossed my mind.
I'm thinking he's a bit of a c**t, but I'm also thinking that maybe he doesn't figure in our long term plans if he's making demands in his contract about where and how often he should play.
I know it's completely out of left field, but it did cross my mind.
It's like neither party is particularly bothered.
I don't know though, and although speculation can be fun, for me, I'd prefer proper news.

On the other hand, when the club gives out news, they get slagged for being open, then when they don't they get slagged for not publishing anything.
That could be a metaphor for how people see Can as well 

I honestly, hand on heart, do not understand that mentality and as I said it is by no means something you have alone, it's a common thing which I can't grasp.

The condescending tone aside ... absolutely, we all look at things differently, but will just say there are occasional wonderful, memorable moments from players, made more special by their importance in close matches, which can change the momentum in a game, or even a title contention, that imho warrants a slice of extra credit in the bank.
But no, don't think it means someone can swing the lead for 10 matches following. Players have dips. Can had one last season. He came back strong.
Some people are critical of Can, Some of Hendo. I'm critical of Karius. That's fine - people can decide who they thinks warrants most criticism...

Nothing in that last presser that would indicate an iota of interest in the Bayern job.

Nothing in that last presser that would indicate an iota of interest in the Bayern job.

1000% agree. He was literally like "thats none of my business"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o_kVrfStEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o_kVrfStEU

Quality that Mags - when is it from?

Quality that Mags - when is it from?

It's from March 2016, can't remember who we were playing mind you.

It's from March 2016, can't remember who we were playing mind you.

Ah maybe City looking looking at the fixtures. 3-0 when Flanno sent Sterling packing

Nothing in that last presser that would indicate an iota of interest in the Bayern job.

He's hardly going to say, 'i'm packing my sh*t tonight and on the first flight in the morning'.. is he?

He's hardly going to say, 'i'm packing my sh*t tonight and on the first flight in the morning'.. is he?

Haha good point. He isn't going to be even 1% tempted unless they go for him, and it looks like they won't, so all is good.

He's hardly going to say, 'i'm packing my sh*t tonight and on the first flight in the morning'.. is he?

Thanks for blowing in pal there was a dedicated thread on the particular subject that has since been merged in to the Klopp thread.

Reading from the much self proclaimed non agenda and biased driven fans on here in that particular thread you would have imagined  Klopp dressed in the leather hosen with lewandowski on his lap plotting the next European conquest for Bayern.

Oh how they would have loved that ..

Big pressure on Klopp now.

He needs top 4 and quarters in the CL minimum this season or we've gone backwards again.

If he doesn't achieve that I can't see how much more he can do here.

All well and good in having a 5 year plan but if you regress after 3 what becomes of the plan?

He make mistake not rip up team built his own team we still got Brenden Rogers players we won't make top 4 or winning anything one best players Phil little Brazil will be gone so lf klopp is here next season he going have rebuilt again

Big pressure on Klopp now.

He needs top 4 and quarters in the CL minimum this season or we've gone backwards again.

If he doesn't achieve that I can't see how much more he can do here.

All well and good in having a 5 year plan but if you regress after 3 what becomes of the plan?

As big are the questions that Klopp has to answer how on earth do the questions just stop at him if it goes tits up? How does that gawky c**t Michael Edwards get away with failure after failure and continue getting a cushty wage at the club? What about Mike Gordon?

The only man above Klopp making his face known is Peter Moore. The rest are faceless cowards.

Never felt as if we were going to score today, was only going to be through a worldy, put a league 2 team in front of us just now and we'd huff and puff our way through.

Look at next two games utd spurs away it like other season were l can't wait till over we out league again only October not sure how club go from here we look like midtable club l like if klopp is sack or walk we bring in manger that start from bottom get rid of 8 players even built new team look like we need other 6 or 7 players