Attainable "leaders"

I think theres full agreement amongst reds that we severely lack leaders on the pitch. But what players are out there that are classed as leaders but who are viable options? Lets be honest not too many leading players at clubs competing ta champions league level are going to look at us at the minute and say "that's the club for me"

So lets keep it at realistic options     

There are none.

F**k All.

I think theres full agreement amongst reds that we severely lack leaders on the pitch. But what players are out there that are classed as leaders but who are viable options? Lets be honest not too many leading players at clubs competing ta champions league level are going to look at us at the minute and say "that's the club for me"

So lets keep it at realistic options     

Isn't the issue still that we simply don't have the quality of players we need?

I'm not sure 'buying' leaders, like we did with Toure and Milner, works.

Recruitment has been our problem for years, we buy players with potential that more often than not doesn't emerge or we buy people and they regress.

I'd rather Liverpool put the focus into signing four or five genuine starters who will improve the quality of the side and rely on the fact that good players, with a competitive drive, will act like leaders when they start to see us win.

Not to sure id class Milner or Toure as leaders? Not top notch ones anyway

Not sure.

That Vertonghen has looked alright whenever I've seen him play, which admittedly isn't much. And could be a bit of a leader too.

Not sure it's definitely leaders we are after, just F***ing good players mind.

We need good players who have a mentality of steel with a will to win like Suarez (clinically insane on the pitch)  and don't sink into themselves at the sight of a battle.

Coincidently a spine of these sort from Keeper, CB and Midfield and we are not too far away from challenging.

Not to sure id class Milner or Toure as leaders? Not top notch ones anyway

Well a lot of the debate and justification for signing both of those two, not to mention the timing, was to say they had experience of how to win and could lead.

So yeah, I'm classing them as signings designed to be leaders in the team. Not good enough players though.

That's the problem, not the lack of shouting and putting in effort.

It's a very fair question. Obvious leaders at other clubs aren't necessarily good enough to get into our team, although there ought to be allowances for other things that they bring to the table. Also, "leaders" don't have to run around piling into tackles, leadership can be experience in tight situations, anything which pulls people together.

Looking at the Premiership and leaving out the Mancs as they wouldn't see to us/we wouldn't want them anyway. Obviously also leaving out the likes of Vincent Kompany for obvious reasons, I would say these players are "leaders". Whether we would want any of them is another question:

Robert Huth, Mikkel Arteta, The bloke with the ponytail who plays at the back for Man City, can't remember his name, Scott Dann, Johann Cabaye, Troy Deaney, Mark Noble, James Collins, Bouyate, Ross Barclay, John Stones, Gary Naismith, Lukaku, Barry, Geoff Cameron, Ryan Shawcross, the Stoke midfielder whose name escapes me, Irish bloke, Steven Davis, Fonte, Gareth McCauley, Darren Fletcher, Olssen, Ramirez, Obi Mikkel, Collocine, Ashley Williams.

All tjese blokes are leaders, I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING WE SHOULD SIGN THEM.   

I think Granit Xhaka from Monchengladbach has the personality we need.

I think Granit Xhaka from Monchengladbach has the personality we need.

Certainly has the name. I've never heard of him but anyone called Granit has got to be worth a look.

Certainly has the name. I've never heard of him but anyone called Granit has got to be worth a look.

If you saw his sending off at the weekend when he just ran up to someone and kicked him up the arse then no thanks

Nigel Farage, Ed Milliband, Ian Duncan Smith ?

I think people are equating leadership with physicality.

I think we need more players who are genuinely tough to play against, we are loaded with soft touch players. But I don't think simply buying a 'leader' is possible.

It is possible to buy players who are technically capable of the style of football we'd like to see but also physically imposing. Henderson and Can could be the answer in midfield. But at the back we need rid of Skrtel, he can't be playing regularly anymore.

I think people are equating leadership with physicality.

I think we need more players who are genuinely tough to play against, we are loaded with soft touch players. But I don't think simply buying a 'leader' is possible.

It is possible to buy players who are technically capable of the style of football we'd like to see but also physically imposing. Henderson and Can could be the answer in midfield. But at the back we need rid of Skrtel, he can't be playing regularly anymore.

The leadership with physicality point is a fair one mate. Xabi Alonso would be a leader but he wouldn't be kicking people.

We've no Scousers  to wear their heart on their sleeve and take people out.

Flanno is on the side lines.

We dont buy leaders, we make them ones in Liverpool. Lucas, Henderson, Milner and Skrtel are the only genuine leaders we have at the moment. Is that enough? I think so, you dont need 11 leaders on the pitch to win a game of football. Whats important is for the other 7 players not to run away scared.

We dont buy leaders, we make them ones in Liverpool. Lucas, Henderson, Milner and Skrtel are the only genuine leaders we have at the moment. Is that enough? I think so, you dont need 11 leaders on the pitch to win a game of football. Whats important is for the other 7 players not to run away scared.

Henderson, Milner and Skrtel are not leaders, Hendo might become one but the other two never have been and never will be on the pitch at least.

The question HS is, whats the leader. Leadership. Its really subjecitve. When I see a corner in 90+4 of stoppage time, with leaders like Suarez, Gerrard on the ptich, and sudenly Skrtel meets the corner with his head to make it 2:2 vs Arsenal with a brilliant header, hes a leader for me. Would you expect Sakho, Toure, Sturridge, Benteke, Coutinho or Firmino to do just that? Hardly. You see a couple own goals of Skerts and hes not leader for you, but he has some strong qualities. Milner likewise. That said, another thread after a calamity of performance which will only goes one way, and towards negative outcome. Stop creating new topics and focus on Leicester game is my word.

John Terry?

Leaders are those who want the ball the most, take responsibility in all circumstances, pull people together in difficult moments and have a resilience about them that influences others.

Now, add in a sufficient amount of some other specifically footballing qualities and they are the ones we should be looking for.

Since I don't believe leadership is an exclusively in-born trait I would also like to think the manager can help make a leader or two out of the current crop.

John Terry?

sure he is/was.

interesting I dont see many leaders in Arsenal team. Why Guardiola agrees to sign for this soft touch of talented hungry players? He will find and make leaders amongs them. Klopp will too at Liverpool FC.

Id argue that in Henderson and Milner we have leaders, the only problem is that they are particularly skillfull orr useful footballers. The biggest issue is that all the players need to toughen up, mentally and physically, hopefully team Klopp can instil this in them otherwise we'll need to find new players, its that simple.

We dont buy leaders, we make them ones in Liverpool. Lucas, Henderson, Milner and Skrtel are the only genuine leaders we have at the moment. Is that enough? I think so, you dont need 11 leaders on the pitch to win a game of football. Whats important is for the other 7 players not to run away scared.

Skrtel a leader? Because he's big and has a skinhead? . He's one of the softest central defenders I've ever seen, let alone play for us...

We don't have a single player capable of dragging us out of the sh*t the way Stevie or Luis did.

Am sure Jürgen will rectify that come next season.

We don't have a single player capable of dragging us out of the sh*t the way Stevie or Luis did.

Am sure Jürgen will rectify that come next season.

Steven Gerrard dragged us out the sh*t because he was capable of it. Not just because he wanted it.

Ability and leadership go hand in hand in my opinion.

After Souness left we had a terrible time trying to replace him and in truth we never did. we are not going to find another Souness now the game has changed so much that aggression of any sort on the pitch is punished.i think we have bought technically good players but they don't have to be here it doesn't mean enough to them. Having LFC on the CV at the end of their careers will look great but it seems that the modern super rich footballers have no love for football no love for LFC and money is their only motivating force how else can you explain the massive swing in form from beating City and Southampton to getting twatted by Watford they don't need to win its only when they want to they show up.

I like the topic. We need leaders but not necessarily ones who kick open the doors of the Hoops Bar with a Rangers top on.
We need intelligent footballers with experience. Proffesionals. I love players like Lucas and Fabio Aurelio. They have quality, they do their job and they are clever. Those guys didn't cost a fortune. The other type is a Carragher or even a Flanagan, fully committed they don't ocst a lot either.

People may or may not agree with me but I'd say the likes of Pepe Reina would have more leadership in our team now than the rest of them.

In all areas of the pitch when Benítez left 5 years ago I'd say our team had more togetherness and far more 'captains'.

People may or may not agree with me but I'd say the likes of Pepe Reina would have more leadership in our team now than the rest of them.

In all areas of the pitch when Benítez left 5 years ago I'd say our team had more togetherness and far more 'captains'.

If Reina was at the club now then he would be a prime candidate for captaincy IMO. I agree with your last point too.

When it came to Reina you would always see him communicating with his back line, bollocking players, praising them and his mad dash celebrations to the other side of the pitch were immense. He would somehow always be the first one to jump on the goalscorer. He started to decline in his latter years at the club but

People may or may not agree with me but I'd say the likes of Pepe Reina would have more leadership in our team now than the rest of them.

In all areas of the pitch when Benítez left 5 years ago I'd say our team had more togetherness and far more 'captains'.

You might be right. They achieved a similar amount to what this lot are doing though, winning f*** all for four seasons and ending up 7th in the league. This lot are on course to match them, I'm not sure they were quite the halcyon days that some make out. I know we were the number one ranked team in the prestigious UEFA rankings but weren't winning bugger all.

People may or may not agree with me but I'd say the likes of Pepe Reina would have more leadership in our team now than the rest of them.

In all areas of the pitch when Benítez left 5 years ago I'd say our team had more togetherness and far more 'captains'.

Pepe is definitely a leader.

Is he good enough now though?

I'm not convinced.

Agree on the squad Rafa left though and there were leaders a plenty left when he was fired.

Pepe is definitely a leader.

Is he good enough now though?

I'm not convinced.

Agree on the squad Rafa left though and there were leaders a plenty left when he was fired.

Don't agree mate. We finished 7th & bombed out of all the cups with that squad, which doesn't fit with having leaders aplenty IMO.

They achieved a similar amount to what this lot are doing though, winning f*** all for four seasons and ending up 7th in the league. This lot are on course to match them, I'm not sure they were quite the halcyon days that some make out.

Liverpool 2005-2010 were a huge level above Liverpool 2010-2015 and you do yourself a massive disservice by trying to fool people otherwise.

You know it and everyone else does.

Liverpool 2005-2010 were a huge level above Liverpool 2010-2015 and you do yourself a massive disservice by trying to fool people otherwise.

You know it and everyone else does.

I agree, but that was a better squad.

I think Pepe Reina knew he was boss. He knew his teammates were boss. He knew his manager was boss. He knew the coaching staff were boss.

Therefore he acted like a leader. So did others as well. Because they knew their level and when they slipped below it. I don't think this Liverpool side knows their level.

They don't believe they are that good. I think they look around for others to bail them out and don't see the quality and know they don't have it themselves.

This side lacks ability primarily, not only leaders.

Liverpool 2005-2010 were a huge level above Liverpool 2010-2015 and you do yourself a massive disservice by trying to fool people otherwise.

You know it and everyone else does.

There is no doubt in my mind that the 2005-10 team was a huge level above the present side, but sadly for a team with 3 or 4 world class players in it, to win nothing for 4 years with such great players was a huge disappointment and doesn't reflect just how good they were or how good the team should have been.

Stick the team from that era in todays league and they would probably have it won by March. Of the players we have had since then probably only Suarez would be certain of getting a place in that team.

Ironic that the more good players we got the less we won.
 

I think theres full agreement amongst reds that we severely lack leaders on the pitch. But what players are out there that are classed as leaders but who are viable options? Lets be honest not too many leading players at clubs competing ta champions league level are going to look at us at the minute and say "that's the club for me"

So lets keep it at realistic options     

Our leader left season before last. He could have knocked few heads together in last 3 matches. We have none, Henderson is not a real leather (yet).

Fuuuuuuuuking fsg, they should have given him couple of seasons & given him some experience of management, some lower capacity in staff in IHMO.

Anyway that's my 2p worth.

Don't agree mate. We finished 7th & bombed out of all the cups with that squad, which doesn't fit with having leaders aplenty IMO.

Mate but you knew well football is never a mathematics. Look at Chelsea now, they are full of world class players and staffs but that never guarantee the result and performance. It's more than that, and the ending of Rafa is not much different.

We need players who are mentally strong enough to not be affected by what is going on around them. Even if we were playing bad Suarz or Gerrard could have pulled something of to create something or get a reaction from the rest of the team. The players now are sheep, they just follow but they have nobody to set an example.

Henderson is a great footballer when we are playing superb, not so great when we are poor, he is still young captain wise and he may learn how to lead by example yet.

Milner lets face it does not have the quality to lead by example, yes he is a good example of the attitude to have for younger players, but that is all.

Lucas also lacks the skill, he also does not strike me as an emotional player which is needed for this.

I'm not counting defenders in this as I dont think they can hugely effect forward play.

Mate but you knew well football is never a mathematics. Look at Chelsea now, they are full of world class players and staffs but that never guarantee the result and performance. It's more than that, and the ending of Rafa is not much different.

Chelsea is a bit of a one-off. Normally teams that win the top trophies have enough of the right characters in their ranks to ensure that minimum standards are met.

I didn't see that in the team that finished 7th and bombed out of all the cups in 09/10. I certainly agree that previous squads did have that (and they ought to have won more) but not the one bequeathed Rafa's successors.

We don't have a single player capable of dragging us out of the sh*t the way Stevie or Luis did.

Am sure Jürgen will rectify that come next season.

This is precisely it. Would either of those players have allowed the team to mope around the field feeling sorry for themselves after we conceded from another set piece at the weekend? Would they sh*t. However, we need Leaders and World class players, not necessarily Leaders who are World Class players.

Like Hansen said....you can't win anything with Kids!

Also losing the scouse influence, we seem to have lost our identity.

We are definitely searching for the next Gerrard, Carragher, etc.

There is no doubt in my mind that the 2005-10 team was a huge level above the present side, but sadly for a team with 3 or 4 world class players in it, to win nothing for 4 years with such great players was a huge disappointment and doesn't reflect just how good they were or how good the team should have been.

Stick the team from that era in todays league and they would probably have it won by March. Of the players we have had since then probably only Suarez would be certain of getting a place in that team.

Pepe  Mascher  Torres  Agger  Stevie   Carra  and the rest.
By January methinks.

Standout players ...  which today we have none in the team.  Not one of the like.

Liverpool 2005-2010 were a huge level above Liverpool 2010-2015 and you do yourself a massive disservice by trying to fool people otherwise.

You know it and everyone else does.

The unfortunate thing is that back then we only had United, Chelsea and Arsenal to worry about. In the interim we've seen the rise of City and rejuvenation of Spurs plus other teams have become even more difficult to beat so even on a good year we have six teams to compete against rather than three as we did five years ago. Add to that five years of transfer disasters and an unbalanced squad and its no wonder we're in such disarray.

For a team it would be perfect if a natural born leader comes from the youth sisstem and that is something that is slowly fading away from a world of football.

Liverpool is just crying for a leader,Henderson just cant be a leader,not after i saw how Balloteli stealed the ball and did not let anyone else take the penalty besides him while Hendo watched that from the background and did nothing.

Only leader that i see is Sakho,and i dont mean on the team leader,just someone that could command the area of the deffence.
I wish that we could bring someone that understands the meaning of wearing the Liverpool shirt and that is something that does not just happenes and that has to be earned.

People may or may not agree with me but I'd say the likes of Pepe Reina would have more leadership in our team now than the rest of them.

In all areas of the pitch when Benítez left 5 years ago I'd say our team had more togetherness and far more 'captains'.

Agree completely.

The players I mentioned in my previous post would step up.

The unfortunate thing is that back then we only had United, Chelsea and Arsenal to worry about. In the interim we've seen the rise of City and rejuvenation of Spurs plus other teams have become even more difficult to beat so even on a good year we have six teams to compete against rather than three as we did five years ago. Add to that five years of transfer disasters and an unbalanced squad and its no wonder we're in such disarray.

The unfortunate thing is that back then we only had United, Chelsea and Arsenal to worry about. In the interim we've seen the rise of City and rejuvenation of Spurs plus other teams have become even more difficult to beat so even on a good year we have six teams to compete against rather than three as we did five years ago. Add to that five years of transfer disasters and an unbalanced squad and its no wonder we're in such disarray.

Not agree mate. It's not that the like of Spurs are significantly improve during the time it's just we LFC make the horrific regression that big them up. Well we known long ago what Man City building so yes now they're very strong but Man Utd also weaken since SAFuckerson leave. Look back at recent years (especially after 2008/2009) I'm just depressing we're not take opportunity to step up to the glory we belong as there's no team is the real dominant power in EPL, shamed !       

I think the Anfield crowd needs to do a better job as a 'leader'. I remember The Kop used to just suck goals into it. Now if the players aren't on top we don't even try to pick them up which is sad to see and even worse to hear. It takes nothing for fans to just give up on a game now and that only makes the players worse.

I've heard some Anfield regulars on here talk about how they've been trying to start up chants, songs etc but they just don't work most of time

For me it's not so much about leaders but technique and decision making, two vital attributes in any sport.  When Clyne decides to cross from deep and gives the strikers a poor angle, that's poor decision making. When Coutinho shoots over the bar for his 100th time in a red shirt on Boxing day that's poor technique. Get the technique and decision making right and we'll win every time.

Don't agree mate. We finished 7th & bombed out of all the cups with that squad, which doesn't fit with having leaders aplenty IMO.

I think Rafa got wrapped up with the wranglings involving the owners at the time and took his eye off the ball that season, that's why when Rafa got sacked I fully expected Kenny to take over for 2 or 3 years before Rafa returned again ( instead of Rodgers I mean).

As regards leaders I'm not sure but I don't know how Stoke have ended up with a better attack than us, we really have a job on in the semi final.

he just ran up to someone and kicked him up the arse then no thanks

You been watching too much Father Ted.