West Ham 2-0 Liverpool: In game and post match debate

All this despite having it thrown down our throats that they had great character at every opportunity.

Quite ironic really

how many 50=50 challenges did they win today  or how many crunching tackles did they do on reflection its probably actually worse than we thought

Balotelli gave up on Rodgers after the Besiktas game. Balotelli played great all game and Besiktas were dirty but he still refused to get drawn into a stupid situation and get sent off. Our creativity in the final third was non-existent and what does Rodgers do? He takes off the only player working hard for the team, Balotelli. Well, it's no wonder Balotelli went off and looked like he had swallowed a wasp. What's worse is that Rodgers didn't even look at him as he went off. You know what the clueless Rodgers did also during this game? He brought on Manquillo when the side was clearly lacking creativity. The game went to penalties and we lost because thanks to Rodgers, one of the best penalty takers in Europe was off the field.

When you are a talented professional in any capacity and you know it, and you have worked under some of the best managers in your time, why the heck would you tolerate that level of stupidity? I can totally understand why Mario lost faith in him and didn't want to play for him because what Rodgers did was totally wrong. Of course though, the media lapped it up, made Mario out to be the spawn of Satan as usual and we lose a talent all because Mr Stubborn needed to replace the 'bad egg' Balotelli with one of his favourites. Even Emre Can went over to Balotelli as he went off because he acknowledged how hard he had worked in that game.

Garbage.

Balotelli has worked "under some of the best managers in the game"?

Can you name a single one of those managers that managed to fulfill the player's potential and make the team play better with him included?

Rodgers assessment of him was no different to any other manager.

EDIT: I see you made a speculative follow-up post about how he "would have thrived under Ferguson" - like he did with Ravel Morrison you mean?

Garbage.

Balotelli has worked "under some of the best managers in the game"?

Can you name a single one of those managers that managed to fulfill the player's potential and make the team play better with him included?

Rodgers assessment of him was no different to any other manager.

he cannot be managed they all gave up on him he is thick as pig sh*t. He thinks he is on a level with Messi or Suarez or even Ronaldo but in reality he is not even on the same planet.Jeez how could anyone even contemplate having him back here

Think it's time we just accept that we have average players and are no better than a mid table team...which is why we currently sit mid table.

Hendo, Can, Milner, Lallana, Allen, Lucas are nothing special. None of them would get into any decent side around Europe. None would get a game for the usual top four in the PL. it's arguably the worst Liverpool midfield I've ever seen. There is just no stand out quality there. No leaders. No match winners. Nothing.

Our goalie is awful. He wasn't at fault for today's goals really but usually he is dreadful. The worst goalie in the league for me.

Skrtel and Lovren are average too. They aren't on par with the Kompanys or Terry's of the league. Skrtel has made something like 300 Liverpool appearances and who here would label him as a club legend? I certainly wouldn't. He is nothing compared to Sami or carra. He has always been a liability for me.

Benteke is awful and not good enough. Origi has been bright recently but i don't think he will cut the mustard here either.

Some of the above didn't play today but let's face it we have a very average squad. A lot of them are stealing a living being on our books.

Balotelli has been incredibly mismanaged. I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have faults but every player does as does every person, its just the media and others who jumped aboard the social media 'Super Mario' hype train, loved nothing more than to build him up and then break him down. He's become footballs Justin Bieber, a celebrity the fans love to get hysterical about when it suits but are quite happy to turn their back on him and stick the knife in when it suits. No wonder the lad doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

If he had gone to Manchester United and had worked under Ferguson, he'd have thrived. Ferguson would have channelled all of that energy into something that benefited the team. Don't like being booed Mario? Score goals. Don't like the media giving you stick? Refuse to give interviews like I do. He'd have created a them and us culture with him and Mario against the world.

Mario has not played under one manager so far known for nurturing talent. Managers like Mourinho, they all want instant results and expect it without knowing how to man manage these people. Mourinho has had money to spend on proven talent at every club. When has this guy ever given youth a realistic chance? When has he ever opened his mind further than his capacity to only do things the Mourinho way? He hasn't. It's no surprise to me that Mourinho has been found wanting. Once the Mourinho way had been worked out, and it's time in football had come to a stylistic end, it was always going to catch this guy out, because he refuses to adapt or do things the way of others. Its his way or the high way. Ferguson did things his way, but he was willing to adapt all of the time like a meticulous perfectionist with low latent inhibition.
 
As much as I hate to say it, this is what separated the scum's manager from the rest of them and Guardiola from the rest of them. They see football as an engine and break it down so all of the pieces work cohesively as one unit, but they also put a degree of trust into the team, perfectly illustrated by Henry stating that Guardiola tells his teams his tactics will take them 80% and they must do the rest. That's not Guardiola given out orders. Its giving freedom to talented individuals who want to flourish to do their own thing. You know what that is? That is incredible man management. You need to let talent flourish and not strangle it by being overzealous with your own vision. You need an overall plan but you need to be flexible with it.

We were once a club with managers just like Ferguson, a club that stuck together in the time of adversity and had true man managers who nurtured young and local talent. The last manager to really do that here was Houllier, which is why Gerrard said he was like a father figure to him. It's also why Houllier was pretty successful with Melwood and why we won the treble we did. It's also why that core family unit that he built and nurtured was central to the side that won in Istanbul in 2005. We need to let Klopp bring that back and start nurturing players who want to give their all for the shirt and the fans.


Also, Rodgers during his time here was incredibly happy to build that 'them and us' culture with Suarez. He defended him to high hilt even though he did things far worse than Balotelli. The only reason for that was that without Suarez he wouldn't have been in a job half as long as he was. He had all the time in the world for Suarez who did worse things because it suited him. However, he had no time for Balotelli who didn't even do anything that bad whilst at the club, but the way he was cast adrift was disgusting and clearly nothing more than built upon this preconceived media created image of Mario.

Great post mate and I agree to a certain extent and as the long term posters will tell you I had a Mario avatar for ages on here after we signed him.

But Mario has to take some of the 'blame' on his own shoulders for his lack of development and at some point the penny has to drop with him that he has tomake the most of his obvious football talents.

'Just one more shot'

Wonder when the last time Mario will have that said about him.

Balotelli has worked "under some of the best managers in the game"?

Mourinho is regarded by many to be one of the best in the game, even though I don't really rate him at all that highly. I find him to be a 4-2-3-1 counter attacking football one-trick pony who's been found out. In my opinion he can't adapt his style of play.

Can you name a single one of those managers that managed to fulfill the player's potential and make the team play better with him included?

Yes. He won the league with Man City, and for all of his antics, still performed enough on the pitch to get 1 goal in every 2.75 games. There are plenty of other players who have a record like that and still don't get crucified like Mario does. Pretty good return for a player who hasn't even realised his potential. Benteke's current return is 1 goal in every 2.66 games and yet again, there's numerous people defending him. Balotelli's return for AC during the 2013/14 season was 1 goal in 1.65 games, a goalscoring return that Benteke has never met in his career. Even at Genk, in the weak Belgian league, Benteke's return was at best just under 1 in 2 games. Balotelli is better than Benteke and his stats prove it. That's why one has been at top clubs like Milan and Man City winning titles and the other has been helping Villa avoid relegation. I would much rather Balotelli at the club being nurtured by Klopp giving us an extra option up top than Benteke quite frankly.

Also, lets not pretend that Balotelli was the only Rodgers signing to struggle. He was brought in and played out of position numerous times, thats when Rodgers would even let him play. He didn't give him any time whatsoever to build confidence up. What about Lambert? He was a goal scoring machine who also came in under Rodgers and failed to perform, so its not just Mario. What about the missing players? Lazar 'Where art thou?' Markovic? Was he also to blame for not performing? Lallana has not hit the heights he hit at Southampton. Neither has Clyne, although he's been closer to that level. Another player who has failed to be consistent has been Firmino, another Rodgers signing. Amazing how he appears to the common denominator here, isn't it? The fact is, Mario is not the only player to not perform under Rodgers but in the curious case of Mario Balotelli, rather than admit it's his fault as a manager, he ostracised him and played on his media reputation to cast him adrift. The only bad signing made was the one where we brought in Rodgers as manager of a football club way above his level. He should go back and manage what he knows, mid table to lower table clubs like Swansea City.

EDIT: I see you made a speculative follow-up post about how he "would have thrived under Ferguson" - like he did with Ravel Morrison you mean?

Morrison was a kid who has had numerous run-ins with the law. Morrison's history is far worse than Balotelli's and he's years younger so its ridiculous to compare them. What has Balotelli done that's on a level with anything this wrong-un Morrison has done or apparently done? Nothing. The guy has let off a few fireworks in his house and done some stupid things in training, and people are acting like he's committed hideous crimes.

Just realised this is the Match Thread and am wondering how the hell we got to debating Mario?

Balotelli has been incredibly mismanaged. I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have faults but every player does as does every person, its just the media and others who jumped aboard the social media 'Super Mario' hype train, loved nothing more than to build him up and then break him down. He's become footballs Justin Bieber, a celebrity the fans love to get hysterical about when it suits but are quite happy to turn their back on him and stick the knife in when it suits. No wonder the lad doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

If he had gone to Manchester United and had worked under Ferguson, he'd have thrived. Ferguson would have channelled all of that energy into something that benefited the team. Don't like being booed Mario? Score goals. Don't like the media giving you stick? Refuse to give interviews like I do. He'd have created a them and us culture with him and Mario against the world.

Mario has not played under one manager so far known for nurturing talent. Managers like Mourinho, they all want instant results and expect it without knowing how to man manage these people. Mourinho has had money to spend on proven talent at every club. When has this guy ever given youth a realistic chance? When has he ever opened his mind further than his capacity to only do things the Mourinho way? He hasn't. It's no surprise to me that Mourinho has been found wanting. Once the Mourinho way had been worked out, and it's time in football had come to a stylistic end, it was always going to catch this guy out, because he refuses to adapt or do things the way of others. Its his way or the high way. Ferguson did things his way, but he was willing to adapt all of the time like a meticulous perfectionist with low latent inhibition.
 
As much as I hate to say it, this is what separated the scum's manager from the rest of them and Guardiola from the rest of them. They see football as an engine and break it down so all of the pieces work cohesively as one unit, but they also put a degree of trust into the team, perfectly illustrated by Henry stating that Guardiola tells his teams his tactics will take them 80% and they must do the rest. That's not Guardiola given out orders. Its giving freedom to talented individuals who want to flourish to do their own thing. You know what that is? That is incredible man management. You need to let talent flourish and not strangle it by being overzealous with your own vision. You need an overall plan but you need to be flexible with it.

We were once a club with managers just like Ferguson, a club that stuck together in the time of adversity and had true man managers who nurtured young and local talent. The last manager to really do that here was Houllier, which is why Gerrard said he was like a father figure to him. It's also why Houllier was pretty successful with Melwood and why we won the treble we did. It's also why that core family unit that he built and nurtured was central to the side that won in Istanbul in 2005. We need to let Klopp bring that back and start nurturing players who want to give their all for the shirt and the fans.


Also, Rodgers during his time here was incredibly happy to build that 'them and us' culture with Suarez. He defended him to high hilt even though he did things far worse than Balotelli. The only reason for that was that without Suarez he wouldn't have been in a job half as long as he was. He had all the time in the world for Suarez who did worse things because it suited him. However, he had no time for Balotelli who didn't even do anything that bad whilst at the club, but the way he was cast adrift was disgusting and clearly nothing more than built upon this preconceived media created image of Mario.

Mate you will get plenty of plaudits for slating Rodgers but your praise of the uber talent Mario is quite laughable, for sure Rodgers didn't set up the team to get the best of him but Mancini the manager who knew him best got rid of him and remember the story Mourinho told about him in the match vs Kazan I think he described Mario as "unmanageable".

Mario Balotelli is a legend in his own lunch time..........

He cannot be managed.

Balotelli

1 in 2.75 for Man City
1 in 1.65 for Milan

Benteke

1 in 2.66 for Liverpool
1 in 2 for Genk

Benteke has never achieved a goal to game ratio of less than 2. Balotelli has, and that's when the world is writing him off as not reaching his full potential and not being manageable.

Also, when Rodgers said Balotelli 'is too much effort' he should have been sacked there and then. No manager should ever go public with something like that and should act like a professional. If he cant hack managing at a top club and managing players like Balotelli then go back to Swansea City and manage Jonjo Shelvey.

Oh, and if Balotelli is so hard to handle, why the heck did Roberto Mancini try to sign him at Inter Milan in the summer, after already managing him at Manchester City? He clearly is hard work, but he also can be handled. Yes, its stressful, thats why these managers are paid so much. They are not paid to just give up on extremely talented individuals.

He cannot be managed.

Balotelli

1 in 2.75 for Man City
1 in 1.65 for Milan

Benteke

1 in 2.66 for Liverpool
1 in 2 for Genk

Benteke has never achieved a goal to game ratio of less than 2. Balotelli has, and that's when the world is writing him off as not reaching his full potential and not being manageable.

Also, when Rodgers said Balotelli 'is too much effort' he should have been sacked there and then. No manager should ever go public with something like that and should act like a professional. If he cant hack managing at a top club and managing players like Balotelli then go back to Swansea City and manage Jonjo Shelvey.

Oh, and if Balotelli is so hard to handle, why the heck did Roberto Mancini try to sign him at Inter Milan in the summer, after already managing him at Manchester City? He clearly is hard work, but he also can be handled. Yes, its stressful, thats why these managers are paid so much. They are not paid to just give up on extremely talented individuals.

Give us the stats without the penalties 

Mate you will get plenty of plaudits for slating Rodgers but your praise of the uber talent Mario is quite laughable, for sure Rodgers didn't set up the team to get the best of him but Mancini the manager who knew him best got rid of him and remember the story Mourinho told about him in the match vs Kazan I think he described Mario as "unmanageable".

Mario Balotelli is a legend in his own lunch time..........

Mancini wanted to resign him in the summer so clearly he is manageable. Also, his return in Mancini managed sides is pretty good, and he has contributed to winning honours with those teams. Mourinho described him as unmanageable because he's a stubborn git, much like Rodgers, who has an air of arrogance about himself and needs to get over himself. The guy is bitter and deluded, as proven by his pathetic drivel during his latest plight with Chelsea. Jose Mourinho is more of a man child than Balotelli. The number of times he cried about how it was unfair with Chelsea even though Drogba frequently got fouled by air, then La Liga with every other game him crying and then he tried to say there's some cause or agenda against him when he returned to Chelsea. On top of this, the guy clearly suffers from some sort of God complex because he calls himself the special one.

https://www.today.ng/sport/14639/milan-stole-balotelli-from-me-mancini

He cannot be managed.

Balotelli

1 in 2.75 for Man City
1 in 1.65 for Milan

Benteke

1 in 2.66 for Liverpool
1 in 2 for Genk

Benteke has never achieved a goal to game ratio of less than 2. Balotelli has, and that's when the world is writing him off as not reaching his full potential and not being manageable.

Also, when Rodgers said Balotelli 'is too much effort' he should have been sacked there and then. No manager should ever go public with something like that and should act like a professional. If he cant hack managing at a top club and managing players like Balotelli then go back to Swansea City and manage Jonjo Shelvey.

Oh, and if Balotelli is so hard to handle, why the heck did Roberto Mancini try to sign him at Inter Milan in the summer, after already managing him at Manchester City? He clearly is hard work, but he also can be handled. Yes, its stressful, thats why these managers are paid so much. They are not paid to just give up on extremely talented individuals.

whats your point Balo is better than Benteke you may as well ask whether you prefer a dose of the clap or genital warts the answer is to get rid as soon as possible and don't do stupid things again and learn the lesson.

Give us the stats without the penalties 

A goal is a goal mate. I don't care if it bounces in off John Henry's mrs arse, it counts.

Balotelli is a clown, FFS if we want him back our aspirations have reached an all time low. I wanted us to sign him, I'm a clown too. He's sh!te.

whats your point Balo is better than Benteke you may as well ask whether you prefer a dose of the clap or genital warts the answer is to get rid as soon as possible and don't do stupid things again and learn the lesson.

Why shouldn't Balotelli get a chance under Klopp to prove himself, as Benteke did? Benteke is quite clearly not up to it so what's the harm in bringing back Mario for the second half of the season, testing him out, and if he is not up to it either, getting rid of them both in the summer to free up some funds? And yes, my point is Balotelli is a much better option to utilise, and a player overall, than Benteke.

Things must be desperate. Balotelli is being discussed as a viable option in the WHU game thread.

Mancini wanted to resign him in the summer so clearly he is manageable. Also, his return in Mancini managed sides is pretty good, and he has contributed to winning honours with those teams. Mourinho described him as unmanageable because he's a stubborn git, much like Rodgers, who has an air of arrogance about himself and needs to get over himself. The guy is bitter and deluded, as proven by his pathetic drivel during his latest plight with Chelsea. Jose Mourinho is more of a man child than Balotelli. The number of times he cried about how it was unfair with Chelsea even though Drogba frequently got fouled by air, then La Liga with every other game him crying and then he tried to say there's some cause or agenda against him when he returned to Chelsea. On top of this, the guy clearly suffers from some sort of God complex because he calls himself the special one.

https://www.today.ng/sport/14639/milan-stole-balotelli-from-me-mancini

Mourinho maybe a thundercunt but he has won numerous titles and trophies so he probably knows a talent.

Why shouldn't Balotelli get a chance under Klopp to prove himself, as Benteke did? Benteke is quite clearly not up to it so what's the harm in bringing back Mario for the second half of the season, testing him out, and if he is not up to it either, getting rid of them both in the summer to free up some funds? And yes, my point is Balotelli is a much better option to utilise, and a player overall, than Benteke.

ffs are you actually Balotelli because nobody on this earth other than him thinks he is any good.Give it a rest we have enough problems without bringing in a petulant man child who sulks when he doesn't get his own way Benteke isn't good enough so why replace him with someone else who DOES NOT FIT

Things must be desperate. Balotelli is being discussed as a viable option in the WHU game thread.

we have the Welsh branch of the Balo fan club here

Balotelli has won things, has a better return and has played for bigger clubs. Why not give him a chance to prove himself? Why not give him something that Rodgers refused to properly give him? Rodgers played him out wide. Rodgers gave him substitute appearances, but only twice put him up top with another striker, a system that suits Balotelli. Balotelli deserves a shot under Klopp just like every other player of ours and if any of them are not good enough, ship the fecking lot of em.

A goal is a goal mate. I don't care if it bounces in off John Henry's mrs arse, it counts.

Too be fair Mrs Henry does have a nice arse I wouldn't mind bouncing something off that   

ffs are you actually Balotelli because nobody on this earth other than him thinks he is any good.Give it a rest we have enough problems without bringing in a petulant man child who sulks when he doesn't get his own way Benteke isn't good enough so why replace him with someone else who DOES NOT FIT

Because Balotelli is better than Benteke. That's why Balotelli has won Serie A multiple times, the Premier League once, the FA Cup once and his old manager wanted to sign him, and Benteke's greatest accomplishment is stopping Villa getting relegated.