West Ham 2-0 Liverpool: In game and post match debate

Another depressingly grim performance from the Reds. There wasn't an ounce of fight in the team. Looked like they where still smashed from New Year, either that or they just didn't give a toss. Credit to West Ham, they took their chances well. Two good crosses, topped off by two good headers. If only we knew how to do that eh?

It was like going back in time today. Only not like watching Liverpool but watching the old Wimbledon sides, without the ability to scrap. Our limitations were well on show today. A genuine lack of quality and even less flair. All over the pitch just effortless, toothless and a total lack of fight for the shirt. What a way to start 2016.

Mignolet - probably our man of the match truth be told. I don't think he stood much chance with either goal, made a couple of good saves and wasn't as shaky as he has been in previous games.

Clyne - got beat for both goals. Now I understand the players are taller and stronger than him but he has to do more to try and put them off. The second one is easier to excuse as he shouldn't of had to compete against two players. But he still should be doing a bit more. Other than that he done better than most.

Lovren - nothing obviously fu**ed up, other than leaving Carroll to Clyne for the second goal. He again played ok. Has turned his Liverpool career around somewhat, in the past few weeks. Since Skrtel's injury his form has picked up. Hopefully it can continue because god knows we need it.

Sakho - started shakily but grew into the game. Wasn't at his best but wasn't anywhere near as bad as the Watford game.

Moreno - we can complain all we like about the foul we should of had that led to the first goal but overall Albert weren't good enough. His delivery is F***ing woeful at times. Constantly offers us a ball out wide then either drags it along the floor or can't beat the first man.

Can't - I actually compared him to Joe Allen in the first half asking what the F**k does he bring to this team? For a big f**ker, he's knocked off the ball so easily. For me, he's playing for his future over the remainder of the season. If he continues to just be a big lump, I'd get shot in the summer.

Lucas - didn't do anything today that I can actually remember other than getting booked, which is unusual for him isn't it? And having a header cleared off the line. No breaking the play up, no decent passes, nothing of anything. Just a game that seemed to bypass him.

Ibe - was probably our most threatening player and done F**k all, which sums up how sh*t we were. Couple of nice runs here and there but no end product. Always strikes me as a player who takes one touch too many. Sometimes you can just get it out your feet and whip it in.

Firmino - well done Bob, you've become the player I most want to see leave the club. To do that in six months is some achievement. To do that when we've still got Lallana, Allen and Balotelli on our books is an even bigger achievement. F***ing useless. Best thing he did all F***ing game was come off.

Coutinho - yet another almost invisible performance from him. He's our creative outlet and too often creates nothing. His inconsistencies sums up Liverpool Football Club right now. When he's good, he's world class. When he's sh*t, he looks like he wouldn't get into a team down Prinny Park.

Benteke - infuriating to say the least. Show some F***ing effort to wanna win the ball when it's in the box. Knock the c**t of a defender out the way, use your strength. Put your F***ing head on the ball. Link up play leaves a lot to be desired as well.

Lallana - drag back, drag back, drag back, lose the ball. Well done Adam.

Smith - must of been told that he's not allowed to shoot. Two very good chances to put his foot through the ball and instead tried to cross it. For me was better than Albert though.

Allen - how delighted I was to see him come on(!). Missed a sitter of a header and done very little else in the time he was on. Our saviour is back though.

Ah well, never mind eh? As long as we win the big money games and the players look good on the grand stage next against Arsenal, all will be forgiven won't it? That's what these players strike me as, they can turn up for the, so called, big games but come these little hard working sides they can't be arsed. They don't get any glory beating West Ham do they?

F***ing pissed off with the F***ing lot of them.

Has there ever been a club in living memory who continues to screw up their transfers for so long and so consistently as Liverpool? I can't remember any clubs that blow money as regularly as we do.

Trolling because I think our manager could rally the players up better despite them obviously being sh*te footballers?

Jürgen has been here for a good few months and is supposedly a world class manager. That today wasn't good enough and its irrelevant whether they are his players or not. We can get beat but I still expect a bit of fight in us.

Understand your point to an extent, but you need to have a underlined strength of character in the players to work with in the first place, and I believe to many of these players feel that now they are at a famous club like Liverpool FC they do not need to work so hard now

Klopp is beginning to learn that no matter how much you polish a piece of sh!t it is still just that.... A Piece of Sh!t. And we have too many pieces play for us

I hate what the premier league has become. Defend defend defend, kill the creativity, hit on the break. Week after week.

The issue is not the EPL had become but for teams like ours that won't adapt. We lose in similar fashion almost all the time.

my thoughts on Couthino are he flatters to deceive his number don't stack up to being a top player.

It's sad to say but if we're to be brutally honest, he's a big fish in a small pond when it comes to talent in the squad. The idea he'd get into any either of the top Spanish sides, never mind top English sides, is laughable.

Two things for me; attitude is more important than ability and formations don't win you games - players do

I believe the players are good enough (you simply have to have the required ability at this level even to be a regular sub). For me, it's the mentality of the players that needs addressing.

I think they all need to mature into knowledgeable football players. They need to learn how to play the game at this level. Mistakes happen because we're human, but the more knowledgeable you are the less mistakes you make. It was only the other day Benteke was saying that he now knows what Klopp wants from him on the pitch. Let's hope he's still coming to terms with that knowledge.

On top of all that, I have to remind myself that the players are also learning to play Klopp's way too.

It's going to take time and we've only had 4 months

I am seriously beginning to believe that the Chelsea and city games were flukes
another horrible performance
 how are we going to stop the arse (best team in form ) in 2 weeks time , if we don't change our mentality , and recover some injured key player? and we have the mancs 4 days after
 I skipped  stoke and Exeter as they are cup games

 YNWA

Brendan is gone if he didn't like these players he should have had the balls to say NO!!!!!!!!!. So he is at the very heart of this problem directly or indirectly.
Now we need to see if Jürgen can change things because the future is looking grim today and we are as far away now from winning the league as we ever where.

There's a limit to blaming the past irrespective of the depth of damage linked to it and today is one of them. More than just the loss is how we lost - simply passionless! And that, you can't blame on the previous manager, the current manager should take a degree of responsibility for that. The passion must be seen to flow from the top and I didn't see that today.

Not one player out there who looked like a LFC player, so sad to see..........

Funnily enough I was having a debate with PaisleyDalglish at the start of the season (btw where has he gone?) that this was the worst LFC team I had team in the attacking dept, worst fears are coming true.

All said and done, a pretty insipid performance by an average side. It's gone beyond the motivational time, we need to get players back from injury, and those consistently breaking down need replacing, with QUALITY players.
Benteke is just not cutting the mustard and needs shipping out.
We need some steel combined with class in the centre of midfield, and Klopp needs to start recruiting now, complete the rebuild in the summer, and ship out all the lightweights who turn up every game, for a game of footy, with less desire than a Sunday league player.
I've played on Saturdays where players have pulled out of tackles voicing the,
"F**k that, I have to go to work on Monday" cliche.
Thats what some of our players looked like today.
We need players who value what they have for a career and are determined to hold on to it.
Didn't really know what side would turn up for us today, and that says it all really.
We should be able to expect a side to turn up every match and give 100%.
Can't remember when I last felt so dissspointed by a Liverpool performance, especially after what has gone on before, you're think they would learn.

Two things for me; attitude is more important than ability and formations don't win you games - players do

No mate, goals do. Not clean sheets. Not defenders, goalkeepers, defensive midfielders, the ability to score more goals than your opponent is what wins games. Winning games is what leads to success. Anything else is a luxury. We had that nailed down perfectly in 13/14 and since then we've been focusing on the wrong areas. I feel about Mignolet how most felt about Rodgers, always have but I'd sooner suffer him and have a prolific goal scorer in the side than put up with our inability to score goals.

I said at the time, to much disagreement on here, that Benteke was not the player for us. He's a good player, but not the right player. I said he'd upset the balance, that he'd depreciate Coutinho's game and that we weren't set up to get the most out of him. This season has proven me right. This squad needs a total rebuild come next Summer because it's unbalanced and filled with mediocrity. There is only so much you can get out of a player and no matter what his attitude is, if he's not good enough, he's going to fail.

There's a limit to blaming the past irrespective of the depth of damage linked to it and today is one of them. More than just the loss is how we lost - simply passionless! And that, you can't blame on the previous manager, the current manager should take a degree of responsibility for that. The passion must be seen to flow from the top and I didn't see that today.

You can see this as an opportunity to posture and make a name for yourself on these boards all you want but that's bollocks.

I call it lack of confidence and weak mentality. Constantly shirking, always hiding. The manager isn't there to hold their hand across the road every SINGLE moment of the day. When they are out on that field for 90 minutes it is them and just them. They lack responsibility as the adults they are. Simple as.

I'm not expecting Jürgen to turn this squad into title winners overnight but he has been here long enough for him to stamp some authority and have all eleven players giving it their all.

We didn't see any fight in us today. It was really, really piss poor.

I wouldn't have minded losing the match anywhere near as much if i could sit here and honestly say that all eleven players tried their best.

Not one did - and the manager has to take some criticism for that. It's his F***ing job to make them try. To make them perform.

Our players might be sh*t but there is no excuse for putting in little or no effort.

It was a very poor day all round for everybody involved with LFC, Jürgen included.

I'm not expecting Jürgen to turn this squad into title winners overnight but he has been here long enough for him to stamp some authority and have all eleven players giving it their all.

We didn't see any fight in us today. It was really, really piss poor.

I wouldn't have minded losing the match anywhere near as much if i could sit here and honestly say that all eleven players tried their best.

Not one did - and the manager has to take some criticism for that. It's his f**king job to make them try. To make them perform.

Our players might be sh*t but there is no excuse for putting in little or no effort.

It was a very poor day all round for everybody involved with LFC, Jürgen included.

The manager can only do so much and for the rest, it's up to the players to do. How old do you think these players are? What the f**k more do you want him to do? Hold them up to his breast for them to suck on his teet?

No mate, goals do. Not clean sheets. Not defenders, goalkeepers, defensive midfielders, the ability to score more goals than your opponent is what wins games. Winning games is what leads to success. Anything else is a luxury. We had that nailed down perfectly in 13/14 and since then we've been focusing on the wrong areas. I feel about Mignolet how most felt about Rodgers, always have but I'd sooner suffer him and have a prolific goal scorer in the side than put up with our inability to score goals.

I said at the time, to much disagreement on here, that Benteke was not the player for us. He's a good player, but not the right player. I said he'd upset the balance, that he'd depreciate Coutinho's game and that we weren't set up to get the most out of him. This season has proven me right. This squad needs a total rebuild come next Summer because it's unbalanced and filled with mediocrity. There is only so much you can get out of a player and no matter what his attitude is, if he's not good enough, he's going to fail.

Not so sure about that mate

We scored more goals than a lot of teams when we came second (101 I think it was). The trouble is we also concded 51 goals along the way. You're absolutely right of course, in that if we score more goals all the time we'll win everything. But that's never ever going to happen. You'll draw some and lose some.

I'm reminded of a great quote by a certain recently retired manager, "Strikers win you games - but defenders win you titles."

It's a balance to be fair; scoring and not conceding

my thoughts on Couthino are he flatters to deceive his number don't stack up to being a top player.

We can debate Cou all day long, he's a skilful and talented player but badly lacked aggression, he's no Sammy Lee. Get's aggressive with him and he'll be anonymous throughout the game. If he's aggressive as in Suarez, he can be a real handful inside the oppo box.

Can't remember when I last felt so disappointed by a Liverpool performance, especially after what has gone on before, you're think they would learn.

I can.  At Vicarage Road two weeks ago.

I'm not expecting Jürgen to turn this squad into title winners overnight but he has been here long enough for him to stamp some authority and have all eleven players giving it their all.

We didn't see any fight in us today. It was really, really piss poor.

I wouldn't have minded losing the match anywhere near as much if i could sit here and honestly say that all eleven players tried their best.

Not one did - and the manager has to take some criticism for that. It's his F***ing job to make them try. To make them perform.

Our players might be sh*t but there is no excuse for putting in little or no effort.

It was a very poor day all round for everybody involved with LFC, Jürgen included.

Bullshit.

 Klopp post match
The German coach admitted he was angry with his side’s below-par performance, telling BT Sport: “It’s no day for being disappointed, it’s a day for being angry.”

I dream of a team of Carraghers

Start with that mentality and the rest will take care of itself

I imagine Jürgen never envisaged such a huge task as turning around the fortunes of this sinking ship. Because that's currently what we are.

One day back in 1990, someone has put a curse on this club...

He knew what he was getting into but he should still be pissed off though, the players have been programmed to a BR ethic and it doesn't look like it's that easy to just switch to a JK ethic in the few months he's been here. We have stupid players on the whole, we don't have players who can read the game and that's our problem.
They can't even play simple balls.

Klopp post match
The German coach admitted he was angry with his side’s below-par performance, telling BT Sport: “It’s no day for being disappointed, it’s a day for being angry.”

Yes, the word angry. I like that. I hope the guillotine starts getting into action to show Klopp means business. No time for sentiments if we want to be successful.

I wonder will Klopp start more of the young lads against Arsenal after Smith put in the only shift today?