West Ham 2-0 Liverpool: In game and post match debate

He knew what he was getting into but he should still be pissed off though, the players have been programmed to a BR ethic and it doesn't look like it's that easy to just switch to a JK ethic in the few months he's been here. We have stupid players on the whole, we don't have players who can read the game and that's our problem.
They can't even play simple balls.

Yes, fully agreed. A bunch of individual players making meaningless passes to a tune of 65% possession and no idea how to penetrate the oppo defence. No understanding at all and no anticipation where and how to move into the box and breach the oppo defence. We can debate all day long here, it all boils down to the quality of players we have now and they simply don't possess that quality in vision, movement and aggression needed during a game.  As you've put it rightly too regimented ala BR's tactics. Today,  I thought was watching a game managed by BR. Klopp woild have to put up at least 1 player to transfer out during this transfer period to show that he means business. He needs fighters not passengers.

We all watch the team play week in, week out and the levels of their shiteness continues to amaze even us. Can't blame Jürgen for not seeing how lacking this side is from the outside looking in.

Emre put in a shift, as did Smith when he came on. But when we drop Lallana for being below par and he's the only option we have to look at off the bench to change the game...says a lot. We don't have enough in this team. Get aggressive and we go in to our shell. Too many soft arses and passengers in the side and for F***ing hell sake the biggest human in the league is the softest of them all.

Benteke didn't win a header all game. HE'S NEARLY F***ing TEN TALL! Unbelievable. And he had the audacity to look at Ibe halfway through the second half and have a go at him for not winning a challenge when the big sod couldn't be bothered to shift his arse all game. Does my F***ing nut.

Firmino wasn't much better but at least he ran and grafted. Set up Can for that effort off the post and when we actually had the ball near their box he made runs and made himself available. I really think he has to play up top and get Coutinho central if we are to get scoring again. Front 3 of Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino and get a midfield 3 behind them. At least we'd have some movement in the final third and an outlet we could kind of rely on instead of the big F***ing lump of sh*te up top.

We all watch the team play week in, week out and the levels of their shiteness continues to amaze even us. Can't blame Jürgen for not seeing how lacking this side is from the outside looking in.

Emre put in a shift, as did Smith when he came on. But when we drop Lallana for being below par and he's the only option we have to look at off the bench to change the game...says a lot. We don't have enough in this team. Get aggressive and we go in to our shell. Too many soft arses and passengers in the side and for f**king hell sake the biggest human in the league is the softest of them all.

Benteke didn't win a header all game. HE'S NEARLY F***ing TEN TALL! Unbelievable. And he had the audacity to look at Ibe halfway through the second half and have a go at him for not winning a challenge when the big sod couldn't be bothered to shift his arse all game. Does my f**king nut.

Firmino wasn't much better but at least he ran and grafted. Set up Can for that effort off the post and when we actually had the ball near their box he made runs and made himself available. I really think he has to play up top and get Coutinho central if we are to get scoring again. Front 3 of Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino and get a midfield 3 behind them. At least we'd have some movement in the final third and an outlet we could kind of rely on instead of the big f**king lump of sh*te up top.

It'll surprise some but I actually took encouragement from Firmino's display mate.

When he lost the ball and tracked back out muscled their players, he probably won some of the most tackles for our lads out there and really did put himself about the park. Some things he did were shocking but while they looked careless at times his reactions to them and effort had me thinking at least he's trying.

I'll be in a minority but I think he'll come good.

It'll surprise some but I actually took encouragement from Firmino's display mate.

When he lost the ball and tracked back out muscled their players, he probably won some of the most tackles for our lads out there and really did put himself about the park. Some things he did were shocking but while they looked careless at times his reactions to them and effort had me thinking at least he's trying.

I'll be in a minority but I think he'll come good.

I don't think he's as good technically as Markovic but I still think he can be a very very good player and his performance in the Bundesliga shows there's something worth having there. But like Markovic he needs a good season to bed himself in. Such a shame such domestic development on Markovic was so recklessly thrown out the window when we sent him on loan.

It'll surprise some but I actually took encouragement from Firmino's display mate.

When he lost the ball and tracked back out muscled their players, he probably won some of the most tackles for our lads out there and really did put himself about the park. Some things he did were shocking but while they looked careless at times his reactions to them and effort had me thinking at least he's trying.

I'll be in a minority but I think he'll come good.

I agree mate but not with Benteke. As i said earlier, he needs a striker - a proper striker. He's still adapting and he has at least two defenders for company every time he touches it so it's tough, i imagine.

Still a bit slow with his decision making but enough signs to suggest he can make it here.

Not just because of the way we played today but more because players don't want to perform to higher standards or aren't suitable, this team we all grew to know a bit (maybe love) and the newcomers will be gradually dismantled, so it's a bit of a waiting game again but we are still in competitions this season and players could come back from the ever increasing injury list which would actually be useful f f s.

We need a leader on the pitch

That's what we lost more than anything when we lost Carragher and Gerrard.

It'll surprise some but I actually took encouragement from Firmino's display mate.

When he lost the ball and tracked back out muscled their players, he probably won some of the most tackles for our lads out there and really did put himself about the park. Some things he did were shocking but while they looked careless at times his reactions to them and effort had me thinking at least he's trying.

I'll be in a minority but I think he'll come good.

What position and what is his point on the pitch though? What does he excel at?

I don't think he's as good technically as Markovic but I still think he can be a very very good player and his performance in the Bundesliga shows there's something worth having there. But like Markovic he needs a good season to bed himself in. Such a shame such domestic development on Markovic was so recklessly thrown out the window when we sent him on loan.

I agree mate but not with Benteke. As i said earlier, he needs a striker - a proper striker. He's still adapting and he has at least two defenders for company every time he touches it so it's tough, i imagine.

Still a bit slow with his decision making but enough signs to suggest he can make it here.

Couldn't agree more with both the above.

Not so sure about that mate

We scored more goals than a lot of teams when we came second (101 I think it was). The trouble is we also concded 51 goals along the way. You're absolutely right of course, in that if we score more goals all the time we'll win everything. But that's never ever going to happen. You'll draw some and lose some.

I'm reminded of a great quote by a certain recently retired manager, "Strikers win you games - but defenders win you titles."

It's a balance to be fair; scoring and not conceding

That is the biggest load of bullshit ever quoted in the history of quotes. Since when has any Football team in the game's entire history won anything going through a season grinding out 0-0 draws? Football is a simple sport. You win your game by scoring more goals than the side you're playing. You build successful teams from the front, not the back. We lack the ability to score. When we concede we can't get back into the game because we can't score. When a team shuts up shop, we can't win the game because we can't score.

Our goal difference is -2 and we're languishing in 8th place pending results of other games today. All our problems start and finish by our inability to score. Not our inability to defend. At this same stage of the 2013/14 season we had conceded four more goals than we have now but sat in 4th place because we'd scored thirty three more goals. We came second that season having conceded less goals than last season were we finished 6th. Lack of goals is our problem and it needs fixing now.

What position and what is his point on the pitch though? What does he excel at?

Just off a mobile striker, either side to be honest. I don't think he's a number 10 as many suggest.

He absolutely excels at being the first in a press, he's probably got some of the most impressive defensive stats (including his time with us) for any forward in the league. What we haven't seen is how good he is at finishing, that I can only put down to nerves, also tends to be really composed. He's a Carragher type player though, he isn't blessed with it naturally but he will work damn hard to make it work and sometimes that's worth more than talent, especially those with talent who don't put the effort in.

Our players have got the personality and colour of Ed Miliband singing the latest Coldplay album on karaoke.

Ok, I have been very hard on Firminho lately, agreed at least he tried very hard today. What if everyone upped a gear like Firminho today and we could see a very different score. Heads must start rolling after today to show Klopp means business. I would say, no more hand holding, chest warming or some put it earlier breast feeding. Time to move on swiftly,  if you're not good enough you're out. One will only be given that many chance, that's what successful clubs do, no time for too many weak individuals that will derail the team and the club.

The stench of the Rodgers era is still hanging around refusing to go away. The same weak mentality is still dragging the club towards mid table mediocrity.

Klopp needs to be given money just to get a couple of players with a first touch and more importantly brains.

Just got a break from work and seen this score.

That's a shock to the system isn't it?

We really aren't as good as I think we are

Just got a break from work and seen this score.

That's a shock to the system isn't it?

We really aren't as good as I think we are

FFS don't you give up mate... you were the ying to my yang. No point me moaning if you are just going to agree!!!

FFS don't you give up mate... you were the ying to my yang. No point me moaning if you are just going to agree!!!

I think they are slowly breaking me mate and after watching Jürgen the other night I think he may feel the same.

Problem is we're better than this result I am convinced of that but I think it might even be more a mental issue than a football issue with some of out players.

Just off a mobile striker, either side to be honest. I don't think he's a number 10 as many suggest.

He absolutely excels at being the first in a press, he's probably got some of the most impressive defensive stats (including his time with us) for any forward in the league. What we haven't seen is how good he is at finishing, that I can only put down to nerves, also tends to be really composed. He's a Carragher type player though, he isn't blessed with it naturally but he will work damn hard to make it work and sometimes that's worth more than talent, especially those with talent who don't put the effort in.

That's a very niche thing, I think his touch is rough, his selection of passes is cowardly, I've seen nothing to make me think he's special. I'm being honest and hopefully not mean. The thing is, I don't even think he'll settle in and become great.
Personally I don't care if a forward player has great defensive stats, they try but they don't do the job in the part of the pitch that they were employed to make count.
Watching his youtubes, I wasn't thinking oh, I can't wait for him to come here and defend from higher up the pitch. I'm sure you get what I'm saying and I'm in no way making fun of your answer.

The manager can only do so much and for the rest, it's up to the players to do. How old do you think these players are? What the f**k more do you want him to do? Hold them up to his breast for them to suck on his teet?

Jürgen can't hold their hands while they are defending a cross or put the ball in the back of the net and score for them but he can remind them that they are playing for Liverpool Football Club.

Did any of our players even break a sweat today?  The effort we put in was shocking and its Jurgens job to motivate his players.

We gave Jürgen endless praise for the performances we put in at city, saints and Chelsea and people kept saying how it wasn't the players it was Brendan all along but as soon as we lose a game and play sh*t it's the players again?

If we are going to lose then fine but I expect us to go down fighting. We rolled over today. Absolutely pathetic and it's something you don't associate with a Jürgen Klopp side.

Tim Sherwood spoke some truth.

He didn't want Benteke to leave AV citing that Liverpool weren't a team who played in crosses.
We don't.
Even Coutinho's corners are crap.

Saying all of that it surprised me that Rodgers promptly shipped out Andy Carroll saying that he didn't suit our style of play then two years later goes and wastes £32 million on Benteke. F.F.S.

The Andy Carroll deal when we bought him was badly done.
Screwed over by the Bar Codes on that one.


I was as surprised when we went for Benteke as we did for Joe Cole or Robbie Keane.
Baffling.

However he did just get us six points in two games  !?
Shows how crap the rest of the team are.

Like someone said on 5 Live.
Put an Owen , a Fowler or a Rush on the goalie with only him to beat and you would win your bet.

With Benteke ?
Schoolboy stuff.

Klopp said in the post match "we're incisive ..."

Online it says :-    penetrating, acute, sharp, sharp-witted, razor-sharp, keen, astute, trenchant, shrewd, piercing, cutting, perceptive, insightful, percipient, perspicacious, discerning, analytical, clever, smart, quick; concise, succinct, pithy, to the point, brief, crisp, clear, effective; informalpunchy, heads-up, on the ball; raresapient

Our 11 on the pitch don't have much of it. With that one word, I perceive Klopp knows what is needed and who to ship out at then end of the season.

Good to see that Klopp is angry, let's start playing some of the academy lads, at least they'd play with passion and perhaps they can get a shot on target. Rodgers was right about one thing, we Do need to rebuild he set this club back years with his crap signings!

I still can't understand the fact that the two most expensive players in the club's history are both players who don't suit our desired style of play. How does that happen?