League Cup Final Liverpool 1:1 Man City (ET) 1:3 after penalties.

For all that people like a good moan about our squad, let's not forget how City set up against us.

Two defensive fbs and two dms meant they left us no space to work in, closed down every gap and channel quickly and were sat on the edge of their area to stop anything getting through. 

For a team of their obvious quality, their overriding concern was to stop us playing, rather than forcing us to stop them.

Of course we're disappointed that we didn't bring home a trophy but we weren't played off the park.

Distraught. Gutted. Didn't even cross my mind losing that final, I just can't believe it.

Sh*t outcome but I had a great day out regardless. I love Wembley trips and I hope there will be many more to come under Jürgen. Highlight of my day was when Coutinho jumped into the crowd where I was, I was in row 2, that feeling alone was worth the trip.

I thought we were the better side overall but they had the better chances. First half was quite even although Migs made a cracking save to palm Agueros shot on to the post. Saying that though we should have had a blatant penalty, or it looked blatant where I was sitting anyway. But in general, both teams looked a bit frightened to have a go I thought.

Second half needed an early goal but unfortunately it fell to them. Mignolet has taken a lot of stick for conceding it but in my opinion it was shambolic defending from Moreno. You are taught at school boy age - always go with the runner.

A soon as they scored I felt there was only one team who wanted to win and that was us. We dominated the play in my opinion but weren't creating that much. Far too many sideway passes for my liking and sometimes we were out of ideas. City had a couple of good chances to put the game to bed to be fair to them but we got the equaliser and I felt it was well deserved.

Extra time was pretty much the same. One team looked like they wanted to win it and that was us. Origi was unlucky with that header, a yard either side and the cup is ours.

Pen shoot out is just a lottery and I'm not criticising anybody who missed one.


Mignolet - I thought he had a very good game. One or two nervy moments and he could have done better for their goal but he made a few top top saves.

Clyne - Same old. Defends well but isn't offering enough going forward. Needs to hog that touchline more and get to the byline.

Lucas - Motm by a country mile. What a soldier.

Toure - Played and defended well.

Moreno - The lad can't defend and I'm not having anybody tell me any different. Starting to become a liability.

Can - God knows what he was doing for the first half an hour but lost count how many times he gave the ball away. Grew as the game went on though. Few important challenges and interceptions and was starting to find red shirts with his passing.

Hendo - Didn't take the game by the scruff of the neck. Seen enough of the ball but he was far too cautious. Big games and cup finals in particular you need a lot more from your skipper. That's the responsibility on his shoulders Im afraid and he doesn't stand up and be counted.

Milner - Poor in midfield but did a lot better when he moved to full back.

Firmino - Not his best game, struggled to get into it.

Coutinho - Played quite well in spells. If somethings going to happen its usually through Phil. Got the goal as well.

Sturridge - I thought he did well overall but lost the ball too many times trying one trick too many. Dazzled past players for fun at times but he should have pulled the trigger instead of trying to walk the ball in.

Thought it was a good team effort though and we were very unlucky to go home with nothing.

Pretty much agree with those player assessments.

Thought it was a fighting performance from us.
We rode our luck in the second half - once we started pushing up and leaving space behind, it was always going to give them chances, with their pace against Lucas and Kolo. (Thats not either of their fault -  they both played well, especially Lucas who was definitely MOTM. ) I wouldnt have had Moreno on the pitch, but since he was on I'd have had him sitting back with the CB's in the 2nd half ( or just 1 CB - Lucas could have played like a sweeper and stepped into midfield when possible), just to make use of his 1 big asset - pace- and give us somebody who could catch Aguero or Sterling. ( Obviously, since its Moreno, it would be a case of catching them though, since it takes his brain a good 3 seconds to register somebody running off the ball.)

Anyway, we got away with it 2nd half, and then we were the better side in extra time. The biggest difference was probably Milner. He played like a dog for 90 minutes, and then suddenly remembered how to put a decent ball in and we started getting chances. A reminder of something we are generally really missing - good balls in from wide.

Fancied us to win it on the pens, but not to be.
Disappointed, but cant fault the effort.

I thought at ET we had them on the ropes. I also thought that Hendo would finally show us that he is captain material. Unfortunately I was wrong on both counts.

A Liverpool captain should take as much responsibility onto his shoulders as possible yet Hendo was a passenger for the entire game. I can barely remember the lad playing a forward pass. He looked like the occasion was bigger than him. I think we need a change of captaincy, not just because of one game but the entire season. I understand that he's injured but how long do we wait?

Lucas has shown all the qualities that a Liverpool captain should have. Take just yesterdays game for instance. Play RCB? no problem, Play LCB? No problem. He also took responsibility for a pen and although he failed to score he had the bollocks to take one. He shut the mouth of every pre match doubter and I believe it's about time we game him the recognition that he deserves.

We need a heart in this Liverpool side.

To say Milner was our best midfielder is pure provacation at best.

It dawned on me at the beginning of extra time just how far Brendan set us back with his squad when you look at the man to man comparison of what was on the park and said to my brother and old man at the time Klopp would be a f**king miracle worker if he pulled of a win there.

No he wouldn't - they were compact and powerful but we had the quality to beat them.

Sturridge's goals-per-minute stats stack uo against anybody's. The team was virtually the one that thrashed them at the Etihad even without Sturridge. Are you seriously saying it would be a miracle for us to score even more this time when they had replaced Hart with Caballero?

just watched the match again and looking back at the last 2/3 months i feel gutted for the kids who helped us get to the final

No he wouldn't - they were compact and powerful but we had the quality to beat them.

Sturridge's goals-per-minute stats stack uo against anybody's. The team was virtually the one that thrashed them at the Etihad even without Sturridge. Are you seriously saying it would be a miracle for us to score even more this time when they had replaced Hart with Caballero?

What quality when you have Sturridge and Firmino dropping into midfield because our midfield can't find them with a forward pass!

Lot of post match over-reaction in here, which is understandable given the frustration and disappointment we all felt. So here's a bit more

Citeh unfortunately learned their lesson from our earlier meeting. The sneaky bas**rds changed tactics. They didn't come at us all guns blazing while leaving the back door open this time, and without the inviting open door we again showed that we have very few capable of picking the lock.

Coutinho did his best, but with Firmino and Sturridge firmly shackled by Kompany and co it was left to our midfield trio to show their worth....sadly they did.

We need a more creative spark in our midfield, someone who can see a pass and then make it without 5 touches first to make sure.
       

What quality when you have Sturridge and Firmino dropping into midfield because our midfield can't find them with a forward pass!

It's a bit of a cunnundrum granted. When you play with a combination of Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge though it oughtn't be too much of a surprise when the opposition play with two holders who sit close to the back four. You also shouldn't be overly surprised when those two holders stay fairly central, after all they haven't got to worry too much about you firing crosses into the area (indeed when they have Kompany and Ottiwhatsisface, they'd actually probably quite LIKE you to do that). You oughtn't be too surprised when City play a high line either, unless you were expecting them to completely change the way they always defend for this one match.

All in all then not an easy one to overcome, I get that. Course, I suppose if you know that's what they are going to do you could concievably alter what we do in order to get an edge, or at the very least have it as option which you use later on. How? Well introduce some physicality, give us a different mode of attack, an alternative focal point. Ask them the question whether they still want to defend high when all it takes is a flicked header or a glanced deflection to put someone in on goal. Ask them the question whether they still want to allow you to cross it with impunity given you have somebody in the box who can head it. It's just an option obviously, and I know most wouldn't opt to even consider it for various reasons.

The way we're going though, when we end up selling the option we never use there's an excellent chance that we'll be able to say that not only were we "right all along", not only is he "sh!te", but also that he's "not even our top goalscorer". At the moment we can only say the first two of those things, but I suspect eventually someone might go past him. My guess is it'll be Sturridge who I think is a fabulous player. Him alongside a fella who he could stay close too and feed of his nudges and knock ons, now that would be a sight to see. All we need to do is find one somewhere, or at least play one occasionally if we do. 

The assumption that Pellegrini would not have learnt from our earlier meeting shows extreme naivity from some, well just one actually.

City played very compact and with the assured Kompany and Ottemendi they were not going to get dawdling on the ball.
Of course they had great protection from the two DM's.

It is exactly the same situation and issues  we have failed to counter all season, breaking down a low block and being hit on the counter.

The biggest problem was our midfield coughing up possession too easily and not being able to find our front players.
Even when one of The front 3 dropped back to pick up the ball where was the forward runs from Midfield? Hendo, Can and too some extent Milner standing in a line across the middle waiting for the ball to come back!

I thought at ET we had them on the ropes. I also thought that Hendo would finally show us that he is captain material. Unfortunately I was wrong on both counts.

A Liverpool captain should take as much responsibility onto his shoulders as possible yet Hendo was a passenger for the entire game. I can barely remember the lad playing a forward pass. He looked like the occasion was bigger than him. I think we need a change of captaincy, not just because of one game but the entire season. I understand that he's injured but how long do we wait?

Lucas has shown all the qualities that a Liverpool captain should have. Take just yesterdays game for instance. Play RCB? no problem, Play LCB? No problem. He also took responsibility for a pen and although he failed to score he had the bollocks to take one. He shut the mouth of every pre match doubter and I believe it's about time we game him the recognition that he deserves.

We need a heart in this Liverpool side.

Totally agree.

There is only one player in this squad with captain material and that is Lucas Leiva.

I was disappointed with Hendo yesterday but that's nothing new now. He lacks real quality to be a top player and he certainly isn't a leader. Tell me what Jordan Henderson can do that Emre Can, James Milner or Joe Allen can't?  Hendo has the legs to cover every blade of grass on a football pitch for 90 mins but he can't do anything else.

Even the penalties annoyed me. If Stevie was here who would have been first up leading by example?

Where was Jordan?

It's a bit of a cunnundrum granted. When you play with a combination of Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge though it oughtn't be too much of a surprise when the opposition play with two holders who sit close to the back four. You also shouldn't be overly surprised when those two holder stays fairly central, they haven't got to worry too much about you firing crosses into the area (indeed when they have Kompany and Ottiwhatsisface, they'd actually probably LIKE you to do that). Ypu oughtn't be too surprised when City play a high line either, unless you were expecting them to completely change the way they always defend for this one match.

All in all then not an easy one to overcome. Course I suppose if you know that's what they are going to do you could concievably alter what we do in order to get an edge, or at the very least have it as option which you use later on. How? Well introduce some physicality, give us a different mode of attack, an alternative focal point. Ask them the question whether they still want to defend high when all it takes is a flicked header or a glanced deflection to put someone in on goal. Ask them the question whether they still want to allow you to cross it with impunity given you have somebody in the box who can head it. It's just an optionobviously, and I know most wouldn't opt to consider it for various reasons.

The way we're goign though, when we end up selling the option we never use there's an excellent chance that we'll be able to say that not only were we "right all along", not only is he "sh!te", but also that he's "not even our top goalscorer". At the moment we can only say two of those things, but I suspect eventually someone might go past him. My guess is it'll be Sturridge who I think is a fabulous player. Him alongside a fella who he could stay close too and feed of his nudges and knock ons, now that would be a sight to see. All we need to do is find one somewhere, or at least play one occasionally if we do. 

Deffo a conundrum Mick because Benteke is an option but without wingers?

Yesterday when Milner moved to left back he had a few opportunities in 1v1 against their full back but his lack of pace meant the ball was always pulled back in field.

Benteke for me is not really an option because of our lack of wingers.

Another cock up by Rodgers.

The assumption that Pellegrini would not have learnt from our earlier meeting shows extreme naivity from some, well just one actually.

City played very compact and with the assured Kompany and Ottemendi they were not going to get dawdling on the ball.
Of course they had great protection from the two DM's.

It is exactly the same situation and issues  we have failed to counter all season, breaking down a low block and being hit on the counter.

The biggest problem was our midfield coughing up possession too easily and not being able to find our front players.
Even when one of The front 3 dropped back to pick up the ball where was the forward runs from Midfield? Hendo, Can and too some extent Milner standing in a line across the middle waiting for the ball to come back!

Quite often in football what appears to be the reason for failure isn't the be all and end all, and therefore when you come to a conclusion it can be a bit wide of the mark. Your "our midfielders couldn't find the strikers" is a clasic case in point. It may well be because the midfeilders are all sh!te (there's undountedly something in this) but it isn't JUST that. See when a team presses up from the back, and when they sit two athletic holders in front of the back four, it isn't easy to "find" strikers with passes into feet (which is our sole mode of attack). THAT'S PRECISELY WHY THEY DEFEND IN THAT WAY!!!

Now if we still had a Raheem Sterling with blistering pace to rn in behind, or we had a striker with the physicality to play off, we may have been able to alter the flow of the thing. Even our midfielders would presumeably be able to hit a much bigger target area (that's the difference you see, you work it into an area and then deliver it into a space to be competed for, it's bigger that the dustbin lid sized space into someones feet). 

The only time we could "find" our strikers was when they ran offside. We had no problem "finding" Firmino on numerous occasions for example, but better passing midfielders would have had exactly the same problem as we encountered yesterday. We have nobody who is capable of running behind, nobody capable of popping up from midifield, we no longer ever score a goal from set pieces and use nobody who has the physcality to play "off". Our only option is play around defences and through them, so we shouldn't be overly amazed when teams take steps to stop us doing it. 

Quite often in football what appears to be the reason for failure isn't the be all and end all, and therefore when you come to a conclusion it can be a bit wide of the mark. Your "our midfielders couldn't find the strikers" is a clasic case in point. It may well be because the midfeilders are all sh!te (there's undountedly something in this) but it isn't JUST that. See when a team presses up from the back, and when they sit two athletic holders in front of the back four, it isn't easy to "find" strikers with passes into feet (which is our sole mode of attack). THAT'S PRECISELY WHY THEY DEFEND IN THAT WAY!!!

Now if we still had a Raheem Sterling with blistering pace to rn in behind, or we had a striker with the physicality to play off, we may have been able to alter the flow of the thing. Even our midfielders would presumeably be able to hit a much bigger target area (that's the difference you see, you work it into an area and then deliver it into a space to be competed for, it's bigger that the dustbin lid sized space into someones feet). 

The only time we could "find" our strikers was when they ran offside. We had no problem "finding" Firmino on numerous occasions for example, but better passing midfielders would have had exactly the same problem as we encountered yesterday. We have nobody who is capable of running behind, nobody capable of popping up from midifield, we no longer ever score a goal from set pieces and use nobody who has the physcality to play "off". Our only option is play around defences and through them, so we shouldn't be overly amazed when teams take steps to stop us doing it. 

That was a good header from Origi You may as well just bang Benteke's drum mate, but I don't think anyone's dancing to that beat at the moment. 

Deffo a conundrum Mick because Benteke is an option but without wingers?

Yesterday when Milner moved to left back he had a few opportunities in 1v1 against their full back but his lack of pace meant the ball was always pulled back in field.

Benteke for me is not really an option because of our lack of wingers.

Another cock up by Rodgers.

Once again I hear you and think you are partially right, but not completely. I think Benteke to be seen to his optimum would need a David Beckham one side and a John Barnes the other, he'd be unplayable then (as would many a striker in truth). It's also correct to say we don't have a winger worthy of the name (not yet, Ibe obviously will be but not yet) which hinders the big man.

Here's the rub though, we DO have players capable of putting a cross in, and just by the very fact that we have a different type of striker on the pitch it would cause them to stretch out their defence to limit the crossing potential (you saw it fairly clearly with Origi's introduction, we instantly looked a more potent team and he isn't even THAT type of player). As it is, their two holders were able to barely set foot outside the goals, because they didn't care if we crossed it from deep, they WANTED us to.

That would change with the introduction of Benteke. I'm not saying he would uproot trees or we'd win the game, but it would at least give us an alternative. 

That was a good header from Origi You may as well just bang Benteke's drum mate, but I don't think anyone's dancing to that beat at the moment. 

I know that mate, not for the first time I wasn't expecting mass acceptance of what I'm saying, usually people need to see lots of evidence before they come over. As I said earlier though, prior to yesterday (when we scored with our first shot on target after 83 minutes) we had scored 9 goals in 8 matches (and SIX of them were against Villa). Perhaps we'll need to be goalless, chanceless and clueless for a little while longer before people accept that we have been to a lesser or greater extent found out going forward, but if we carry on as we are it'll happen eventually.

Quite often in football what appears to be the reason for failure isn't the be all and end all, and therefore when you come to a conclusion it can be a bit wide of the mark. Your "our midfielders couldn't find the strikers" is a clasic case in point. It may well be because the midfeilders are all sh!te (there's undountedly something in this) but it isn't JUST that. See when a team presses up from the back, and when they sit two athletic holders in front of the back four, it isn't easy to "find" strikers with passes into feet (which is our sole mode of attack). THAT'S PRECISELY WHY THEY DEFEND IN THAT WAY!!!

Now if we still had a Raheem Sterling with blistering pace to rn in behind, or we had a striker with the physicality to play off, we may have been able to alter the flow of the thing. Even our midfielders would presumeably be able to hit a much bigger target area (that's the difference you see, you work it into an area and then deliver it into a space to be competed for, it's bigger that the dustbin lid sized space into someones feet). 

The only time we could "find" our strikers was when they ran offside. We had no problem "finding" Firmino on numerous occasions for example, but better passing midfielders would have had exactly the same problem as we encountered yesterday. We have nobody who is capable of running behind, nobody capable of popping up from midifield, we no longer ever score a goal from set pieces and use nobody who has the physcality to play "off". Our only option is play around defences and through them, so we shouldn't be overly amazed when teams take steps to stop us doing it. 

With City sitting deep the onus is on the midfielders to break the press in midfield by turning with the ball finding the forwards or full backs and making runs into the box.

We created no over laps despite Clyne and Moreno being quite high up because the ball usually went straight back to the defender from our midfielders lack of ability to turn with the ball or a poor ball forward.

A ball playing CM who could drive into their defence was sorely missed.

What quality when you have Sturridge and Firmino dropping into midfield because our midfield can't find them with a forward pass!

The point I'm making is that the same quality midfield was sufficient to thrash them at the Etihad therefore we had the quality to win yesterday's game. Lack of quality cannot be an excuse when the same players (even without Sturridge) did the businees 11 weeks ago.

The point I'm making is that the same quality midfield was sufficient to thrash them at the Etihad therefore we had the quality to win yesterday's game. Lack of quality cannot be an excuse when the same players (even without Sturridge) did the businees 11 weeks ago.

You carry on with your one man crusade of what fantastic quality we have.
You seem to be a lone voice though.

We just lost a cup final.

He was replying to me.
Not every post in a match thread has to be a 1,000 character assessment of the players,
or a rant about why the team lost.

I know that mate, not for the first time I wasn't expecting mass acceptance of what I'm saying, usually people need to see lots of evidence before they come over. As I said earlier though, prior to yesterday (when we scored with our first shot on target after 83 minutes) we had scored 9 goals in 8 matches (and SIX of them were against Villa). Perhaps we'll need to be goalless, chanceless and clueless for a little while longer before people accept that we have been to a lesser or greater extent found out going forward, but if we carry on as we are it'll happen eventually.

In all honesty I thought the return of Sturridge would solve a lot of our problems. Sadly that is not proving the case at the moment.

I think we all understand the question, just not sure Benteke is the answer long or short term. I do however think that for whatever reason he has been treated badly, his confidence shattered and asked to play a game that is "not his."

Not sure why we have not seen Sturridge and Benteke up front together more as on paper it looks a good partnership, but with Benteke's form now in the toilet and Sturridge still looking "fragile" it doesn't look likely any time soon.

 

Lot of post match over-reaction in here, which is understandable given the frustration and disappointment we all felt. So here's a bit more

Citeh unfortunately learned their lesson from our earlier meeting. The sneaky bas**rds changed tactics. They didn't come at us all guns blazing while leaving the back door open this time, and without the inviting open door we again showed that we have very few capable of picking the lock.

Coutinho did his best, but with Firmino and Sturridge firmly shackled by Kompany and co it was left to our midfield trio to show their worth....sadly they did.

We need a more creative spark in our midfield, someone who can see a pass and then make it without 5 touches first to make sure.
       

If only there was another Xabi Alonso somewhere.

If only there was another Xabi Alonso somewhere.

Yeah he'd do   or a Gerrard

Here's the rub though, we DO have players capable of putting a cross in

Who?

Milner tried for 90 minutes and failed, he also tried against Augsburg all night and failed.

Moreno was sh*t, Henderson maybe once got close to the box in both games and should have scored a simple tap in but failed.

The best crosser of the ball we have is actually Firmino.

Did you see Lallana berating Henderson for a shocking pass that nearly cleared the entire box when he was completely free. Milner just about got his crossing boots on in extra time and we probably should have won it there, Origi very unlucky with both the diving studs attempt and the header, a foot wider and it's a goal without question.

The difference yesterday was that our midfield was indeed different both in personnel and in attitude. Henderson was a shell of the player he can be, he produced absolutely nothing, I'm convinced if Allen was near fitness he would have played, if Stewart hadn't been injured he would have played but Klopp had, yet again, so few options that we had what we had and had to deal with it.

Lucas in the middle would have given us much more control over both tempo and possession. Can in the first 30 minutes literally gave the ball away on every touch, it was a shocking first 30 by the German. Milner was not much better throughout the entire 90 and Henderson managed to be the worst of the 3. Trying to put the emphasis on an attack that had no connect to it's midfield is, as S@int right says, banging the Benteke drum it's not even disguised but it is horribly misguided.

We also had the misfortune of having to use one substitution that was forced and the other on a complete moron, Moreno getting out of position endlessly forced Klopp's hand and you can hear in his interview how disappointed he was to have to 'fix' the problem. With 1 substitution left and our crosses showing no signs of even beating the first man let alone being effective why introduce a lamp-post that wont close down, wont create on his own and likely wont even score when presented with a chance from 3 yards out.

We lost on penalties against one of the best teams in the country, no disgrace, even less so when all mitigating factors are taken into account. A damn fine attempt that was disappointing but bloody close to triumphant.

Can't wait to get some real midfielders in the summer, midfielders with ability as well as engines, one's that can cross a ball and stay on their feet more than 5 minutes. One's that when it comes to a moment of responsibility or pressure they don't hide and one's that when one of their team-mates gets gripped by the kneck and bent sideways in the air has the bollocks to step in.