Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion

This game showed we are not title contenders. Our successful start over the first weeks was deceiving. But no biggie...we are 3rd and if we finish as such one would declare Klopp's first PL campaign as a success, wouldn't one?

MOTM: Sadio. I begin to worry if he will stay much longer with us and not get bribed by City, Barca or Madrid. He's that good.

Karius has made an error but it isn't an abject howler. If he hadn't had a nightmare last week we'd say he could have done better and now we move on.

I have no idea how folk think Mignolet is better - for sure, neither are not good enough at the moment, but Karius deals with crosses better (Mignolet would have been killed up against Carroll for that cross) and his distribution is better and his kicking is better.

He isn't worse than Mignolet and it will be proven in time that he is better. There's no point in dropping one poor performing keeper for another piss poor performing keeper. It does nothing for stability whatsoever and just looks kneejerk. Mignolet is hardly going to do better.

The answer lies squarely at the door of Achterberg. Now maybe we are just buying poor keepers but since his arrival, every keeper has done terribly. His job is to improve keepers and he has done absolutely nothing - if anything they've become much worse under Achterberg.

Fair points SoaG. It's more for the experience I am suggesting Mig. Not sure what would do Karius more damage, taking him out of the firing line or persisting with him while he carries on basically crumbling before our very eyes. He needs to turn it around very quickly or the situation will make him a lot worse. Either way, there's a situation with our goalkeeping and it needs sorting, pronto. There's 3/4 attempts in two games that have got past our outfield players that I say, with no doubt, should've been dealt with by Karius. Cost us 3 points last week and 2 today. People can go on about how the shots shouldn't have even been allowed to happen but if he does his basics then we're talking about two wins there and how everybody done their job.

Cool here we go.

I take back the BR comment, although I truly believe that there is a section on here who wouldn't be so forgiving if it was BR and who similarly will not criticise a Klopp signing under any circumstance.

I see improvement with Karius on Migs with his feet. At least with my eyes but then the stats were pretty low when I saw them last week. One of the lowest in the league. I see more confidence in the lad than Migs too. More willingness to come out and punch. Like I said in his thread, that was a good punch from under Andy Carrolls nose. That isn't to say i've seen anything world class or even a class a rung below that in him.

His shot stopping and mainly his handling have been well below average, and i'm not convinced that his confidence is merely bravado.

Defenders will always make mistakes. These days they all want to be ball players, good on the ball, basically they arent rugged brick shithouses anymore. They take risk, they go walk about, some of them can't even defend when called upon. Our current crop have mistakes in them. Lovren much improved but has mistakes in them. Matip calm and composed but maybe a little too much so?

Point is sh*t happens and we need a last line of defence we can rely on.

I'm worried. The only way out of this situation i can see Klopp taking is to sell Migs in the Summer and to bring in another keeper to 'challenge'/take Karius' spot in the team.

That surely is the way the club will go. Migs will take the fall. However the way this is going I think Klopp will turn to him soon, if Karius continues to  put in these 'less than perfect performances' as i've heard it comically understated.

Absolutely spot on and I agree entirely.

I think Karius is showing a lot of false confidence at the moment, including his attack on rat boy. He's feeling the heat and it's getting to him. Another of things I missed off my list of 'better than Migs' was how he's happy to go in face first to feet, as much as some are happy to mock him for his model looks etc it takes a huge amount of bravery, bordering on stupidity to put your face right by a boot about to strike a ball. I think it's that level of nuts a keeper needs and always thought on these moments Migs sh*t out, where Karius does not.

Also agree with the comments regarding Matip and Lovren. I was actually saying while he was having his excellent spell that I could still see the error in Lovren's game. I think it's a mentality thing and it will always be there. Personally I think he can be improved upon but I'm happy nowadays to see him in the first XI when in the past I thought he was a liability which is a huge improvement from the lad.

Matip, for me is the best defender I've seen us sign since Sami, he's absolutely fantastic. I've no issue with the 'error' he made today simply because it was one of those horrible deflections that just has enough on it, spin wise and pace to confuse even the best of us. I thought that was massively overplayed and he was also very unlucky not to score.

The midfield was awful , origi can't the ball, Firminho didnt turn up , the keeper is now consistently costing us points , Clyne gets into great positions and delivers sh*te , i'd like to see Grugic given a go and Ojo.
All teams have a sticky spell in a season , this is gona be ours. Lets hope we have a look for a bit of steel in midfield in January.

Just imagine if Joe Hart was in our goal. We missed a great signing there. Still lets go on and see what happens.

Ah come crawling out of your cave now we're not winning I  see.

Getting predictable now. Littleface means little brains, little loyalty and little support it seems

Ah come crawling out of your cave now we're not winning I  see.

Getting predictable now. Littleface means little brains, little loyalty and little support it seems

Arseholes that are not welcome here.

Absolutely spot on and I agree entirely.

I think Karius is showing a lot of false confidence at the moment, including his attack on rat boy. He's feeling the heat and it's getting to him. Another of things I missed off my list of 'better than Migs' was how he's happy to go in face first to feet, as much as some are happy to mock him for his model looks etc it takes a huge amount of bravery, bordering on stupidity to put your face right by a boot about to strike a ball. I think it's that level of nuts a keeper needs and always thought on these moments Migs sh*t out, where Karius does not.

Also agree with the comments regarding Matip and Lovren. I was actually saying while he was having his excellent spell that I could still see the error in Lovren's game. I think it's a mentality thing and it will always be there. Personally I think he can be improved upon but I'm happy nowadays to see him in the first XI when in the past I thought he was a liability which is a huge improvement from the lad.

Matip, for me is the best defender I've seen us sign since Sami, he's absolutely fantastic. I've no issue with the 'error' he made today simply because it was one of those horrible deflections that just has enough on it, spin wise and pace to confuse even the best of us. I thought that was massively overplayed and he was also very unlucky not to score.

I think we almost agree, just i'm a pessimist and you're an optimist

Not seen the game in full yet as was driving on the M6.

I've seen the goals.  Their first goal was hardly crime of the century - seems like a lot of people tending to jump on the bandwagon.  In any case though that will teach him to trust the wall - they may as well not have been there.

Worst goalkeeping of the game was for Origi's goal.  That reminded me of some of our goalkeeping in preceding seasons.

In any case, despite the bleating over our goalkeeper I can see we had just three shots on target the entire game so you know - maybe we might want to have a little focus on that.

This game showed we are not title contenders. Our successful start over the first weeks was deceiving. But no biggie...we are 3rd and if we finish as such one would declare Klopp's first PL campaign as a success, wouldn't one?

MOTM: Sadio. I begin to worry if he will stay much longer with us and not get bribed by City, Barca or Madrid. He's that good.

Wondered where -15 likes came from. Then I read your post and it's obvious...

Not seen the game in full yet as was driving on the M6.

I've seen the goals.  Their first goal was hardly crime of the century - seems like a lot of people tending to jump on the bandwagon.  In any case though that will teach him to trust the wall - they may as well not have been there.

Worst goalkeeping of the game was for Origi's goal.  That reminded me of some of our goalkeeping in preceding seasons.

In any case, despite the bleating over our goalkeeper I can see we had just three shots on target the entire game so you know - maybe we might want to have a little focus on that.

Yep. Wasteful in the shooting department and guilty of over playing in and around the box.

Wondered where -15 likes came from. Then I read your post and it's obvious...

How do you minus someone anyway?!

I think we end up 6 or 7 in league, no leaders in team we see more results like these l feel klopp going need two more transfers window get right team, Lt be disgrace lf don't get top 4 these year no European football sorry just fed up same Liverpool beat big teams lose get teams in bottom league

Ah come crawling out of your cave now we're not winning I  see.

Getting predictable now. Littleface means little brains, little loyalty and little support it seems

Oh dear , crawling out of caves now am i? Don't you self righteous , over bearing , moral guardians of the true supporter  galaxy ever get tired of boring us with your rhetoric ?
I'm giving an opinion , it's allowed isn't it? Oh no wait , not if your having a hissy fit . Come on Daffodil , grow a pair.

I don't fancy chances next two games, both teams are poor we are playing l said before we be out top 4 in new year

I think we end up 6 or 7 in league, no leaders in team we see more results like these l feel klopp going need two more transfers window get right team, Lt be disgrace lf don't get top 4 these year no European football sorry just fed up same Liverpool beat big teams lose get teams in bottom league

Pull yourself together lad

We may well fall short on the title this year but it's is essentially year one in Klopp's project... He's trying to shape a squad and has done what he's done in essentially one window

Yes we've had a couple of poor results,  but have you seen the injuries? And not just simply the number but the fact that they are all focused in one area of the pitch, and arguably the key one, the final third..
Look at his options off the bench today.. Options we have had until recently, no Coutinho, no Sturridge, no Ings... Lallana only just back
Simply look at those as options to change a game from the bench that aren't there, or if they had started then Origi would be that option and Firmino plays his more natural role

People say about Woodburn but games like today aren't for him yet, but that's our attacking option on the bench, a 17 year old with less than half hour first team football under his belt

We need more options, that's what the last two results have told me not that we will finish 6th or 7th... Give me a f**king break

Title may well be a push, but I'm confident of CL football next season minimum

It must be hard work being such a pessimistic football fan

Karius maybe in his first season, but I'm in my 45th mate ( I started watching and supporting Liverpool when I was 5). You might be quite happy to wait a couple of seasons while we find out if Karius is upto it or not, but forgive me if I haven't got quite the same patience as you. I'd quite like to see us win the league again before I hang my boots up once and for all, and you don't do it with goalkeepers who can't save shots. Hopefully Karius discovers a way to do that before too much longer.

Bang on.

Sorry, but me and, I hope, Liverpool FC cannot be arsed having to wait for a keeper to come good in a year or two while he learns the ropes as our first choice GK.

Naaaa.

Arseholes that are not welcome here.

Just as well your not in charge then isn't it?
Another lazy post , just thrown out without any substance. Make a point , bring something to the debate , at least try an and bring some kind of substance to the  thread. Why don't you try breaking some of your siblings favourite toys , i've got a feeling that kind of thing is right up your street. Seriously , go and have a sit down and get your sh*t together.

Oh dear , crawling out of caves now am i? Don't you self righteous , over bearing , moral guardians of the true supporter  galaxy ever get tired of boring us with your rhetoric ?
I'm giving an opinion , it's allowed isn't it? Oh no wait , not if your having a hissy fit . Come on Daffodil , grow a pair.

Your opinions are wrapped in malcontent so no they are not allowed you wum

We are a team in progression and no where near the finished article.

It's great to be involved in a title hunt but we really lack the quality needed for a sustained run, look what a couple of injuries has done.

If we can hang in there over the next 4 games and bring in a couple of reinforcements in January then it's still all positive.

Agree.

We defo miss Coutinho in midfield creating stuff..Lallana played well today but he misses his mate alongside him..
Wijnaldum must've got a nose bleed he was that far forward in the second half..

we created enough chances at 2-2 but our deliveries into the box was poor. corners especially.
Everytime Henderson took a corner he had both his hands in the air, the West ham defence sussed that out after the first one came in.
Near post, everytime !!

Lot's to be positive about going into Weds game , conceded two jammy goals today which could've been avoided but then they could say that about our equaliser.(Imagine if that had've been Karius, ha ha)

Keep going...

Anyone else think Origi and Firmino should be swapping positions?

Not looking like champions material at the mo. We previously failed against mid table sides, now we failing against relegation material.
Just need to sit tight and hope things improve.
It's evident we need better quality all round. Not wholesale, but definitely a stronger, more tallented C mid, a decent winger or striker and defo a keeper. The defence also needs a kick up the backside or changes.
I personally think we are looking at top 4/5 at best.
Gonna be a rough ride, but Klopp clearly needs more time to pull it all together. He will no doubt be aware of the missing pieces.
Not knee jerk, just think to many performances we look average, even though when it's good, it's very very good. Lack of consistency coming back to haunt us.
Still be expecting us to win every game all the same.

Anyone else think Origi and Firmino should be swapping positions?

It's worth a try as Divock has plenty of pace and power to bully his way through from the left hand side, something which Firmino lacks however has more trickery than Divock to play through the middle.

In fact don't know why they don't interchange during the game to confuse the opposition.

Your opinions are wrapped in malcontent so no they are not allowed you wum

Oh , well , when you put it like that , ok

Anyone else think Origi and Firmino should be swapping positions?

A lot of players got in each others way today..
Thought Firmino was quiet today as he was last week at Bournemouth, once again, another player missing his mate Phillipe.