The Run In - 2016-17

Bobby for Origi could be the only change for next week, if really needed. I would keep the 4-4-2 diamond playing Cou deeper and Lallana behind Studge-Bobby. Lets finish the job!

Bobby for Origi could be the only change for next week, if really needed. I would keep the 4-4-2 diamond playing Cou deeper and Lallana behind Studge-Bobby. Lets finish the job!

Yeah I'd go along with that, I like Origi and think he can develop into a really useful striker but Bobby has that extra quality at the moment.

Was a great display yesterday

Wasn't it a case of the hammers laying down for you more than a great display  Well that's what you guys say when you want another team to do you a favour 

Hope Watford get 3 next Sunday cant see Arsenal dropping points but got a feeling Watford could sneak a draw

Wasn't it a case of the hammers laying down for you more than a great display  Well that's what you guys say when you want another team to do you a favour 

You have a point.

 Before the game started was talking with me Dad and he said West ham would play like we did against Chelsea when Man U only chance of winning the league was if we beat Chelsea in last game at Anfield.

Seem to recall we didn't try to hard that day (not sure of the year)

West Ham would much rather us in the CL than Arsenal

Wasn't it a case of the hammers laying down for you more than a great display  Well that's what you guys say when you want another team to do you a favour 

Yeah I'll agree that West Ham didn't play with the same intensity as against Spurs but i actually think they were beaten a little bit into submission b yus as well. At the start they were having a go but as the game progressed they didn't have the motivation to go hell for leather to get back into the game. It doesn't detract though from the fact that we had one of our best games, in an attacking sense, this year.

Yeah I'll agree that West Ham didn't play with the same intensity as against Spurs but i actually think they were beaten a little bit into submission b yus as well. At the start they were having a go but as the game progressed they didn't have the motivation to go hell for leather to get back into the game. It doesn't detract though from the fact that we had one of our best games, in an attacking sense, this year.

They weren't able to pressure Phil  and for once we had an outlet in midfield that was forward thinking and willing to cut through the defense. That made all the difference. Now against a team with  a better midfield it might not have been so easy, but that's where  Lallana (and Gini) are supposed to really shine when teams focus on Phil. In my opinion, having both Lallana and Phil wide separates them too much, they need to be able to link up, either one or the other (or both) of them pulling the strings for our attack.

Arse and City both playing tonight .

Interesting to see the results .

City could still draw against Watford and/or West Brom and if the GD was right we could get 3rd .

If Sunderland win tonight that is us guaranteed at least 4th.

Yeah I'll agree that West Ham didn't play with the same intensity as against Spurs but i actually think they were beaten a little bit into submission b yus as well. At the start they were having a go but as the game progressed they didn't have the motivation to go hell for leather to get back into the game. It doesn't detract though from the fact that we had one of our best games, in an attacking sense, this year.

Yeah I'll agree with your comments too. Fair assessment and not biased.

If Sunderland win tonight that is us guaranteed at least 4th.

Wake up rib, it's not happening.

Maybe I'm deluded but I have a feeling Sunderland will take something from Arsenal this week.

Yeah I agree!! Your deluded  I think it's more wishful thinking that anything else. Arsenal hitting some form now. I wouldn't worry anyway CL is all but assured and should be joining United 

4th isn't a sure thing to CL qualification, I believe that the qualification round has changed with no seeded teams, and divided into 2 routes.

The play-off round, the final round before the group stage, is also split into the champions route and the league route. The draw for both sections will be made on August 4, with the first legs taking place on August 15 and 16 and the second legs following on August 22 and 23.

There are no new teams added to the champions route; the 10 winners from that section in the third qualifying round are drawn against each other in another five ties, with the five winners advancing to the group stage.

Five more teams are added to the league route, and join the five teams that progressed from that section in the third qualifying round. They play across 10 ties, and like the champions route the five winners advance to the group stage.

So as it stands, the other 4 teams in the League route are: Sevilla FC, Sporting of Portugal, TSG Hoffenheim & Napoli, we could be drawn against any of these, or a team from the qualification stages.

I may be wrong, but lets hope we get 3rd.

4th isn't a sure thing to CL qualification, I believe that the qualification round has changed with no seeded teams, and divided into 2 routes.

The play-off round, the final round before the group stage, is also split into the champions route and the league route. The draw for both sections will be made on August 4, with the first legs taking place on August 15 and 16 and the second legs following on August 22 and 23.

There are no new teams added to the champions route; the 10 winners from that section in the third qualifying round are drawn against each other in another five ties, with the five winners advancing to the group stage.

Five more teams are added to the league route, and join the five teams that progressed from that section in the third qualifying round. They play across 10 ties, and like the champions route the five winners advance to the group stage.

So as it stands, the other 4 teams in the League route are: Sevilla FC, Sporting of Portugal, TSG Hoffenheim & Napoli, we could be drawn against any of these, or a team from the qualification stages.

I may be wrong, but lets hope we get 3rd.

Seen a post on the reddit about this stuff. Here you go.

Here is how the CL play-off round is shaping up.
Teams entering into the third qualifying round and their UEFA (club coefficient):
Dynamo Kyiv (67.526)
Ajax* (67.212, assuming they lose the final shudders)
Steaua Bucuresti (35.370)
Young Boys (28.915)
Nice (16.833)
Belgium runner up (Club Brugge:39.480 or Anderlecht:58.480 or Gent:35.480)
Russia runner up (CSKA Moscow:39.606 or Zenit:87.106)
Turkey runner up (Istanbul Basaksehir:10.340 or Besiktas:45.840)
Czech runner up (Slavia Prague:8.135 or Viktoria Plzen:40.635)
Greece runner up (AEK Athens:6.580 or Panathinaikos:15.080 or PAOK:35.080)


Now, teams entering into the play-off round and their UEFA (club coefficient):
Sevilla (112.771)
Sporting (36.866)
German fourth place (Dortmund:124.899 or Hoffenheim:literally 0)
Italy third place (Roma:53.566 or Napoli:88.499)
*and English fourth place


So, it is important to note that our UEFA club coefficient is 56.135. Considering that the 10 teams that enter the play-off round are split into 5 seeded and 5 unseeded teams it seems a better opportunity for progression in the competition is to be seeded. Obviously there are way too many permutations to go through to see who could end up in that final 10 based on third round draws, but just looking at every team available let's see who we would be behind:


Dynamo Kyiv, Ajax, Anderlecht and Zenit from the third round and Sevilla, Dortmund, and Napoli from the play-off round. If, by chance, five (or potentially seven) of these teams made the play-off round we would be unseeded. Some ways around this include:


CSKA Moscow finish runner up in the Russian Premier League, Dortmund finish third in the Bundesliga, Napoli finish second in Serie A, and Anderlecht win Belgium's weird CL playoff and go straight into the group stage. Now, I don't think I would want to face Roma any more than I would want to face Napoli so that one is a toss up, but I would take my chances with Hoffenheim over Dortmund any day. Other ways to end up as a seeded team would include Dynamo Kyiv, Ajax, Anderlecht and/or Zenit losing in third round qualifying.


At the moment it is looking like the play-off round will at least include Sevilla and Napoli who will be seeded, which means three more teams can be seeded. Hopefully Ajax wins the Europa League (for more important reasons than this one), but even if they don't then hopefully CSKA Moscow can nip Zenit in the league or a few of them lose in the third round.


Hopefully none of this matters when we finish third come next weekend. But, even if we finish fourth, at the end of the day I still fancy our chances against any of these sides considering we can actually do work against teams that play football. I do wonder though about attracting talent this summer and not having guaranteed group stage CL may be off-putting, but maybe being closer to being seeded could help considering a two game playoff against Slavia Prague may be more desirable than Sevilla.

So basically the qualifying round is as follows. There are going to be 5 seeded teams and 5 unseeded teams, the seeding depends upon the European co-efficient of the teams. The teams having the top 5 co-efficient are going to be seeded and rest will be unseeded. And then the draw amongst them will occur, once every team has reached the play offs.

4th isn't a sure thing to CL qualification, I believe that the qualification round has changed with no seeded teams, and divided into 2 routes.

The play-off round, the final round before the group stage, is also split into the champions route and the league route. The draw for both sections will be made on August 4, with the first legs taking place on August 15 and 16 and the second legs following on August 22 and 23.

There are no new teams added to the champions route; the 10 winners from that section in the third qualifying round are drawn against each other in another five ties, with the five winners advancing to the group stage.

Five more teams are added to the league route, and join the five teams that progressed from that section in the third qualifying round. They play across 10 ties, and like the champions route the five winners advance to the group stage.

So as it stands, the other 4 teams in the League route are: Sevilla FC, Sporting of Portugal, TSG Hoffenheim & Napoli, we could be drawn against any of these, or a team from the qualification stages.

I may be wrong, but lets hope we get 3rd.

I agree that 3rd is preferred, which could still happen if City draw one of their matches and we win, as the goal difference is already close. I do not expect Arsenal to drop any points. We must win to make top 4.

But if we finish 4th - the draw for that that playoff round IS seeded. Whether we are seeded remains to be seen. It is based on club coefficient and we are 34th

To add detail to RP's post, that playoff round looks like this:
Participants: Five teams which enter in this round, and the five League Route winners of the third qualifying round. (top 5 potential seeds in bold)

5 teams from the League Route (non-champions, with current coefficient ranking)
Spain Sevilla CC: TBD (112.942) - confirmed, 8th
Portugal Sporting CP CC: 36.866 - confirmed, 57th
Germany Fourth-placed team of 2016–17 Bundesliga (Borussia Dortmund (7th) or Hoffenheim - (122nd))
Fourth-placed team of 2016–17 Premier League (that would be us, 34th)
Italy Third-placed team of 2016–17 Serie A (Roma (37th) or Napoli (17th))

And then 5 advancing from the 3rd qualifying round - out of the following 10:

Dynamo Kyiv CC: 67.526 (25th)
Netherlands Ajax CC: TBD (67.212) (26th) (although they could begin at group stage if they beat Man United in the Europa final)
Romania Steaua București CC: 35.370 (60th)
Switzerland Young Boys CC: 28.915 (72nd)
France Nice CC: 16.833 (117th)
Runners-up of 2016–17 Russian Premier League (CSKA Moscow (52nd) or Zenit St. Petersburg (19th)
Belgium Runners-up of 2016–17 Belgian First Division A (Club Brugge (53rd) or Gent (59th)
Turkey Runners-up of 2016–17 Süper Lig Besiktas (43rd) or Istanbul Besaksehir (way lower)
Czech Republic Runners-up of 2016–17 Czech First League (Slavia Prague (way lower) or Viktoria Plzen (68th)
Greece Runners-up of 2016–17 Superleague Greece (AEK, Panathinaikos, Paionos or PAOK - all are lower than us)

All that to say we are 7th highest coefficient of the teams that could be in this round, but we should be seeded with a couple of teams moving up or down in their respective league tables at the end of the season.


Obviously you'd like to avoid Dortmund, Napoli or Seville at that stage, but I don't see anyone else there who really worries me. Wouldn't it be something if we were drawn against Nice And Balotelli?

This season, Man City entered the tournament at this stage and were one of the five seeded teams,along with Porto, Villareal, Monchengladbach and Ajax.  Three seeded teams won by aggregates of 6-0, 9-2 and 4-1, while Villareal lost 3-1 to unseeded Monaco, and Ajax lost 5-2 to unseeded Rostov

Seedings are based on the current club coefficient, where we stand 34th. Link here: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2017.html

Wasn't it a case of the hammers laying down for you more than a great display  Well that's what you guys say when you want another team to do you a favour 

I think every fan base has come out with that line .

If Sunderland win tonight that is us guaranteed at least 4th.

Just worry about Borough at the weekend, Sunderland are going to get torn a new one tonight.

I agree that 3rd is preferred, which could still happen if City draw one of their matches and we win, as the goal difference is already close. I do not expect Arsenal to drop any points. We must win to make top 4.

But if we finish 4th - the draw for that that playoff round IS seeded. Whether we are seeded remains to be seen. It is based on club coefficient and we are 34th

To add detail to RP's post, that playoff round looks like this:
Participants: Five teams which enter in this round, and the five League Route winners of the third qualifying round. (top 5 potential seeds in bold)

5 teams from the League Route (non-champions, with current coefficient ranking)
Spain Sevilla CC: TBD (112.942) - confirmed, 8th
Portugal Sporting CP CC: 36.866 - confirmed, 57th
Germany Fourth-placed team of 2016–17 Bundesliga (Borussia Dortmund (7th) or Hoffenheim - (122nd))
Fourth-placed team of 2016–17 Premier League (that would be us, 34th)
Italy Third-placed team of 2016–17 Serie A (Roma (37th) or Napoli (17th))

And then 5 advancing from the 3rd qualifying round - out of the following 10:

Dynamo Kyiv CC: 67.526 (25th)
Netherlands Ajax CC: TBD (67.212) (26th) (although they could begin at group stage if they beat Man United in the Europa final)
Romania Steaua București CC: 35.370 (60th)
Switzerland Young Boys CC: 28.915 (72nd)
France Nice CC: 16.833 (117th)
Runners-up of 2016–17 Russian Premier League (CSKA Moscow (52nd) or Zenit St. Petersburg (19th)
Belgium Runners-up of 2016–17 Belgian First Division A (Club Brugge (53rd) or Gent (59th)
Turkey Runners-up of 2016–17 Süper Lig Besiktas (43rd) or Istanbul Besaksehir (way lower)
Czech Republic Runners-up of 2016–17 Czech First League (Slavia Prague (way lower) or Viktoria Plzen (68th)
Greece Runners-up of 2016–17 Superleague Greece (AEK, Panathinaikos, Paionos or PAOK - all are lower than us)

All that to say we are 7th highest coefficient of the teams that could be in this round, but we should be seeded with a couple of teams moving up or down in their respective league tables at the end of the season.


Obviously you'd like to avoid Dortmund, Napoli or Seville at that stage, but I don't see anyone else there who really worries me. Wouldn't it be something if we were drawn against Nice And Balotelli?

This season, Man City entered the tournament at this stage and were one of the five seeded teams,along with Porto, Villareal, Monchengladbach and Ajax.  Three seeded teams won by aggregates of 6-0, 9-2 and 4-1, while Villareal lost 3-1 to unseeded Monaco, and Ajax lost 5-2 to unseeded Rostov

Seedings are based on the current club coefficient, where we stand 34th. Link here: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2017.html

23rd on this list?

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

23rd on this list?

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

Yes, I saw that too. Bert's page has always been reliable for me, but I don't know what the difference is.

23rd on this list?

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

Here is the response I just got. Given my distrust of most football associations, I'm going with Bert on this  :

"Hi Rob,

You better ask UEFA cause I don't know why their table seems so incorrect. If you scroll back 1 season our tables are identical. It seems to me that something didn't go right at uefa.com

Best regards,
Bert"

Sunderland under immense pressure, can't get the ball across the halfway line

2-0, that just about does it. This thread well and truly unnecessary now. Just go win at Boro boys.

How many goals are they behind us on GD? two?

How many goals are they behind us on GD? two?

Who cares, just win and it won't matter.