Is It Our Coaching ...Or What ?

Last weekend we saw an ex player Benteke score two goals against us .
A player we bought then sold on.
A player now getting into positions.
Someone Tim Sherwood described as "If you feed the beast he will give you goals" meaning send the crosses in. With us in some games he looked woefully lost.

We've seen Mama being a revelation at Palace instead of someone who at times was afraid of the ball.  In the same team Martin Kelly is central to the defensive set up  there.

Then we turn to Box Of Frogs Balotelli who TPM sat down for two hours with to "get inside his head". He is banging in goals left right and centre for Nice .

Aspas ?  Another reject of ours who is currently fifth highest scorer in La Liga on 21 .

Theres plenty of other examples of players who didn't perform for us but are now doing their stuff at other clubs .

So what is it ? 
Coaching ? Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

it probably has alot to do with the coaching musical chairs we have had in recent years.  new coaches mean new tactics and the desire to find his own players to fulfil vision

hence why i hope we hang to klopp for along time. he needs a few seasons to weed out the garbage and find his players and then hopefully we see the fruits of his work

there is also the commitee......

Last weekend we saw an ex player Benteke score two goals against us .
A player we bought then sold on.
A player now getting into positions.
Someone Tim Sherwood described as "If you feed the beast he will give you goals" meaning send the crosses in. With us in some games he looked woefully lost.

We've seen Mama being a revelation at Palace instead of someone who at times was afraid of the ball.  In the same team Martin Kelly is central to the defensive set up  there.

Then we turn to Box Of Frogs Balotelli who TPM sat down for two hours with to "get inside his head". He is banging in goals left right and centre for Nice .

Aspas ?  Another reject of ours who is currently fifth highest scorer in La Liga on 21 .

Theres plenty of other examples of players who didn't perform for us but are now doing their stuff at other clubs .

So what is it ? 
Coaching ? Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

It happens everywhere.  Diego Forlan? Absolute waste of time at United, went on to be key for Athletico.

It happens so often and for so many different players and clubs it's impossible to pinpoint one issue.

Sakho for example i don't think Klopp didn't rate as a player, it's just he made an example of him in terms of the discipline of the squad.

Benteke on the other hand might have been more what you describe as a square peg in a round hole. Just didn't suit the system.

Each example will be different but it's definitely not an issue only we have. In fact it works the other way too, for example Mascherano was frozen out at West Ham, came here and played brilliantly for a few seasons before joining Barca.

Last weekend we saw an ex player Benteke score two goals against us .
A player we bought then sold on.
A player now getting into positions.
Someone Tim Sherwood described as "If you feed the beast he will give you goals" meaning send the crosses in. With us in some games he looked woefully lost.

We've seen Mama being a revelation at Palace instead of someone who at times was afraid of the ball.  In the same team Martin Kelly is central to the defensive set up  there.

Then we turn to Box Of Frogs Balotelli who TPM sat down for two hours with to "get inside his head". He is banging in goals left right and centre for Nice .

Aspas ?  Another reject of ours who is currently fifth highest scorer in La Liga on 21 .

Theres plenty of other examples of players who didn't perform for us but are now doing their stuff at other clubs .

So what is it ? 
Coaching ? Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

Can't be the coach Skip we got a brand new big shiny red one  !

seriously it's down to our style and perhaps level required,
In Benteke it was definitely style he just didn't fit in with what Jürgen wanted, and it could be argued he has found his level,
Same with Aspas although to be fair to the lad he wasn't given enough opportunities, maybe he too has found a club that suits his level,

Kelly again for me wasn't given enough opportunities, he's much more mature now and obviously experienced, so good luck to him,

As for Balotelli he was just a f***in nutter,  determined to F**k things up regardless who he worked under, he will shine in France but I'm betting he has the 'Frogs' eating out of his hands tho,


See what I did there Skip?

YNWA

Last weekend we saw an ex player Benteke score two goals against us .
A player we bought then sold on.
A player now getting into positions.
Someone Tim Sherwood described as "If you feed the beast he will give you goals" meaning send the crosses in. With us in some games he looked woefully lost.

We've seen Mama being a revelation at Palace instead of someone who at times was afraid of the ball.  In the same team Martin Kelly is central to the defensive set up  there.

Then we turn to Box Of Frogs Balotelli who TPM sat down for two hours with to "get inside his head". He is banging in goals left right and centre for Nice .

Aspas ?  Another reject of ours who is currently fifth highest scorer in La Liga on 21 .

Theres plenty of other examples of players who didn't perform for us but are now doing their stuff at other clubs .

So what is it ? 
Coaching ? Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

Maybe too pressurized by us fans. They have no room for mistakes and are expected to win every match. We tend to blame everything but ourselves. We should consider this as well.

Last weekend we saw an ex player Benteke score two goals against us .
A player we bought then sold on.
A player now getting into positions.
Someone Tim Sherwood described as "If you feed the beast he will give you goals" meaning send the crosses in. With us in some games he looked woefully lost.

We've seen Mama being a revelation at Palace instead of someone who at times was afraid of the ball.  In the same team Martin Kelly is central to the defensive set up  there.

Then we turn to Box Of Frogs Balotelli who TPM sat down for two hours with to "get inside his head". He is banging in goals left right and centre for Nice .

Aspas ?  Another reject of ours who is currently fifth highest scorer in La Liga on 21 .

Theres plenty of other examples of players who didn't perform for us but are now doing their stuff at other clubs .

So what is it ? 
Coaching ? Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

We don't play with orthodox wingers to lump in crosses.

Sakho a revelation really? He has just done what he did here for the last 3 years, look decent for a run of games then get injured. - Dont bother to look at the number of games he has played for us in the last 3.5 years you might get a shock!

Balotelli has found his level in the French League.

Aspas, good technical little player but who weighs about 6 stone and not able to cope with the EPL.

I would say its the "OR" I would suggest you should look at our recruitment policy instead?

Last weekend we saw an ex player Benteke score two goals against us .
A player we bought then sold on.
A player now getting into positions.
Someone Tim Sherwood described as "If you feed the beast he will give you goals" meaning send the crosses in. With us in some games he looked woefully lost.

We've seen Mama being a revelation at Palace instead of someone who at times was afraid of the ball.  In the same team Martin Kelly is central to the defensive set up  there.

Then we turn to Box Of Frogs Balotelli who TPM sat down for two hours with to "get inside his head". He is banging in goals left right and centre for Nice .

Aspas ?  Another reject of ours who is currently fifth highest scorer in La Liga on 21 .

Theres plenty of other examples of players who didn't perform for us but are now doing their stuff at other clubs .

So what is it ? 
Coaching ? Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

The problem for me is the last part mate. Square pegs in round holes, the manager didn't want the likes of Balotelli, Aspas, perhaps even Sakho (look at the recruitment of Lovren to back that up).

So he wasn't inclined to play to their strengths and get the best out of them to then lessen his hand in the famous 'committee', it was all part of the total sh*t show that was our transfer policy while Brendan was in charge and thankfully, as mentioned in another thread, it appears that we're moving away from that. Never again do I want to see players bougtht and never play for us without clear and obvious reasons.

The manager's vision and how he wants us to play has to be the driving force behind these decisions and I hope the rumours of "FSG learning their lessons" are true because with or without Jürgen (I do think he's been the catalyst for change) we can't move forward under that old system.

Never again do I want to see players bougtht and never play for us without clear and obvious reasons.

Or as the was the case with TPM playing politics with players in not playing them to prove a point to the Committee.

If Tim Sherwood said it, then it must be true.

"TPM", seriously?

Silk purses and sow's ears spring to mind.

If Tim Sherwood said it, then it must be true.

"TPM", seriously?

I don't get all this TPM stuff at all.

Even Hodgson seems to get his name used on here more than Brendan.

I don't get all this TPM stuff at all.

Even Hodgson seems to get his name used on here more than Brendan.

Ridiculous, isn't it.

The manager's vision and how he wants us to play has to be the driving force behind these decisions and I hope the rumours of "FSG learning their lessons" are true because with or without Jürgen (I do think he's been the catalyst for change) we can't move forward under that old system.

I also hope the 'rumours' of 'FSG learning a lesson' have some credibility Luke.

Unfortunately 8 (eight) seasons of similar optimism has proved groundless, someone is consistently telling porkies with LFC's status shot to F***ing bits as a result.

There is no reason anything of any consequence will happen to affect FSG's modus operandi which is now set in stone, regardless of the placations.

I also hope the 'rumours' of 'FSG learning a lesson' have some credibility Luke.

Unfortunately 8 (eight) seasons of similar optimism has proved groundless, someone is consistently telling porkies with LFC's status shot to f**king bits as a result.

There is no reason anything of any consequence will happen to affect FSG's modus operandi which is now set in stone, regardless of the placations.

Agreed mate, Corbs made a good point on twitter about how the rumours of large transfer funds seems to always come out just prior to season ticket renewals so those cynics amongst us will probably bite on that idea.

The coaching must have something to do with our form, just look at corners, both for and against, can't score from them and can't defend from them and most of that is down to organisation

The coaching must have something to do with our form, just look at corners, both for and against, can't score from them and can't defend from them and most of that is down to organisation

So why aren't people crying out for a defensive coach to be signed like they were when Brendan was in charge?

The coaching must have something to do with our form, just look at corners, both for and against, can't score from them and can't defend from them and most of that is down to organisation

We still have a free kick  / set piece problem that we cant seem to overcome.

Agreed mate, Corbs made a good point on twitter about how the rumours of large transfer funds seems to always come out just prior to season ticket renewals so those cynics amongst us will probably bite on that idea.

Corbs being cynical, surely not

We still have a free kick  / set piece problem that we cant seem to overcome.

Our World class manager still hasn't sorted that.

One of a few disappointments on his behalf.

Our manager hasn't sorted out plan B either

Could it be the coaching or could it be that the majority of players we have bought in recent  seasons have not been good enough and should never have been bought.

I don't get all this TPM stuff at all.

Ha ha ha... (if i remember) it all stems back to a time when moderator(s), in a thread, suggested Brendan was being discussed too much because his name was causing friction Si - if you recall it was like a Red rag to a hypocrite. 😁

To circumvent the 'ban' [and to annoy the hypocrites no doubt] the term TPM entered forum lingo... as did average ppg. 😂

Crazy times but funny as F**k. Anyways... next season; eh? 😎

On topic: there are a myriad of reasons why players preform better elswhere; coaching may be just one (a small one).

I don't get all this TPM stuff at all.

Even Hodgson seems to get his name used on here more than Brendan.

It's embarrassing.

Our manager hasn't sorted out plan B either

Plan B left at the end of the season and scored two goals against last week!

Tpm stands for?

Could it be the coaching or could it be that the majority of players we have bought in recent  seasons have not been good enough and should never have been bought.

This the the closest reason to what I thought. Please Mr. Klopp no more going back to the Bundeslique and waste a bucketful of dosh to recruit slow mos and lighweights. It simply won't work in the PL which is fast and furious. I would say get a bloody fast and robust DM and left back in as a top priority. Too manyy players with one hollywood performance and gone missing in the next 5 games. Too many average players.

I would keep only Matip, Mane and Cou. 

Could it be the coaching or could it be that the majority of players we have bought in recent  seasons have not been good enough and should never have been bought.

I think all the one's that shouldn't have been bought have been pretty much cleared off, in Klopp's eyes.

The boss was happy with what he had...

In fact, he was that happy he only brought in Gini, Matip and Mane to the existing eleven, and gave the likes of Mignolet and Lovren new contracts.

So, you tell me.

Too much fudging around, too much playing politics with selection, too much experimentation and ad-hoc gap-filling with patchy reserves, too much so-called 'philosophy' and too little thought about playing to the strengths of the players we have.

When you have a striker like Carroll or Benteke, you send in crosses.  Good ones, and lots of them.  We asked them to play like f**king Messi.  Madness.

We had 2 past managers who rely heavily on a 'style' and 'method' as opposed to working with the tools they are given.

So perfectly fine players who 'don't fit into the system' get sold on after 1 year of buying them.

This policy is very bizarre to me. Complete waist of money. Astonishingly, we aren't even crafty enough to only sell certain players to non-premier league clubs.

We quite possibly have thee worst transfer record in the top 5/6 over the past couple of season. People should be losing their jobs imho.

Are you confident that even if we had large investment in the squad this summer that the players would work out? I certainly dont.

Tpm stands for?

The previous manager?

Or as the was the case with TPM playing politics with players in not playing them to prove a point to the Committee.

Yet... Jürgen didn't keep Balotelli [or play to his strengths] and didn't want to play the disruptive Sakho either: presumably to prove the same point to the same people? 

Are we now accepting that Brendan got it right with those two? Nice one - that acceptance shows a growth in mental maturity if nothing else. 

As for "square pegs" Skip; do you mean like Milner? 

As for "square pegs" Skip; do you mean like Milner? 

Milner has been a revelation at left back  the only square peg being Moreno .

Milner has been a revelation at left back

So... to answer your original question...
 

Square pegs in round holes ?

... it's not the concept of square pegs in round holes that's a problem.   

 

So... to answer your original question...
 

... it's not the concept of square pegs in round holes that's a problem.   

 

What is  ?

What is  ?

Well let's look at it logically to see if I can help you. You offered three 'options'...

So what is it ?
 
Coaching ?

Style of play?

Square pegs in round holes ?

And... we have just ruled out "Square pegs?" That leaves two; "coaching?" and "style of play?".

I assume like me you believe Jürgen to be a top coach so it can't be "coaching?".

That just leaves... "style of play?".

See?

Wasn't that easy? 

You're welcome.

What a distortion of the truth!

Balotelli - Shouldn't have been bought. Brendan ended up accepting his purchase and in doing so became responsible for getting the most out of him, along with the rest of the strikers he wanted to go into that season with. He couldn't!

Jürgen didn't keep Balotelli for his own reasons but if I were to speculate it was most probably because we don't play a system that suits him and he also recognised in Firmino we had a player who was much better. Trying to say this is the same as what Brendan did is the hilarious part, it's the exact opposite! Same as with Sakho, he got rid of the disruptive aspect as soon as he could, Brendan signed him! Both problems Brendan oversaw, both problems Brendan introduced which Jürgen is now attempting to put right, those are the facts. Trying to equate them is an hilarious juggling act of the truth.

Square pegs in round holes - take a look at the discussions prior to the season, it was suggested many times that Milner being the starting LB would be a mistake and if he starts there next season it will be an even bigger mistake. The difference though couldn't be bigger - in Brendan's case we went from having a cohesive and devastating unit to one with absolutely no chemistry, chopping and changing systems, as many as 4 or 5 times during a single match. Brendan bought the square pegs! The transformation from the nearly year to beyond that highlighted just what a poor job he was doing, the two were unrecognisable. Now Jürgen is in the building phase, he is putting the pieces together nicely and the chemistry/cohesion and identity of the team is becoming quite clear. When he gets this team to the stage where we either win the league or come close then I don't believe we'll see him selling our best players and replacing them with a group square pegs for round holes, if he does he'll be met with the same level of criticism Brendan was. Trying to make out that keeping Milner on as LB (after trying to sign LBs) is equatable to what Brendan did is total and utter bullshit but frankly par for the course.

The fact that you still can't let go of these issues after all this time is truly pathetic. Not surprising that you keep twisting the facts until you're comfortable with your position but honestly you'd be better served by letting go of all this angst. Very sad.

I'm struggling to see any evidence of coaching when it comes to the defence. What's changed ?

I'm struggling to see any evidence of coaching when it comes to the defence. What's changed ?

Can't coach poor players like Klavan and Lucas to play CB.

Lovren imo is not good enough either for the way Jürgen sets up the team with both full backs high up the pitch meaning the CBs gave to win their 1v1 battles something where Lovren is poor and with Lucas plaing DM exacerbates the issues.

Get better defenders like Matip and Clyne and although we will still leak goals because we are such an attacking team we should not see the comical goals conceded.

Can't coach poor players like Klavan and Lucas to play CB.

Lovren imo is not good enough either for the way Jürgen sets up the team with both full backs high up the pitch meaning the CBs gave to win their 1v1 battles something where Lovren is poor and with Lucas plaing DM exacerbates the issues.

Get better defenders like Matip and Clyne and although we will still leak goals because we are such an attacking team we should not see the comical goals conceded.

Alladyce does it with every team he goes to. He gets a response and improves the way the team defends. That is down to coaching.
I don't rate Clyne as a defender .

Alladyce does it with every team he goes to. He gets a response and improves the way the team defends. That is down to coaching.
I don't rate Clyne as a defender .

What happened to his coaching today with his first choice CB's out?

What happened to his coaching today with his first choice CB's out?

Ha he not improved that clusterfuck of a team ?

Ha he not improved that clusterfuck of a team ?

He has done what all the top managers do, shore up the defence and grab a lucky goal, Allardyce does it, Bruce does, Pulis does it, Mourinho does it.

Its not improvement, its desperate times require desperate measures tactics. Against Burnley, Allardyce got found out.

He has done what all the top managers do, shore up the defence and grab a lucky goal, Allardyce does it, Bruce does, Pulis does it, Mourinho does it.

Its not improvement, its desperate times require desperate measures tactics. Against Burnley, Allardyce got found out.

Yeh , after beating us , Chelsea and Arsenal . F***ing hell . Mourinho wins sh*t loads of trophies where ever he goes.

Alladyce does it with every team he goes to. He gets a response and improves the way the team defends. That is down to coaching.
I don't rate Clyne as a defender .

Okay. Let's get Allardyce to replace Klopp at LFC. 

Okay. Let's get Allardyce to replace Klopp at LFC. 

What are you doing,trying to start a riot.

Okay. Let's get Allardyce to replace Klopp at LFC. 

He'll keep us up.

Well let's look at it logically to see if I can help you. You offered three 'options'...

And... we have just ruled out "Square pegs?" That leaves two; "coaching?" and "style of play?".

I assume like me you believe Jürgen to be a top coach so it can't be "coaching?".

That just leaves... "style of play?".

See?

Wasn't that easy? 

You're welcome.

 



Merci     Gracias    Danke