Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?

You make salient points; however, if I need a car that runs (vs the broken down one that I have) but I can't get the one that I really want, I have to buy one that's better than what I have or I don't get to work. I believe that's where we are with Lovren. If we don't get something better than what we have at CB, we aren't going to get to work (title, cup final, etc...)

I guess in the question would be if you had the money to buy any car you wanted..lets say you wanted a rare classic 1959 corvette and there were none available right now but that is your dream car....do you get your old car fixed and wait for what you really want because they do come on the market? or do you go and buy a new ford just because it's shiny and new?

Maybe not the best analogy but I think you get my drift.

Personally if it was me and I had the money I would lease a car until the one I dreamed of became available but that is easier done with cars then with football players because to get them up to speed with what the manager want's them to do might take an entire season and then they are gone but the problem is still there.

Reckon there's money there. Maybe not enough to get Messi, but someone. Now where did I write down that planB...

It's in Brendans dossier mate.

I guess in the question would be if you had the money to buy any car you wanted..lets say you wanted a rare classic 1959 corvette and there were none available right now but that is your dream car....do you get your old car fixed and wait for what you really want because they do come on the market? or do you go and buy a new ford just because it's shiny and new?

Maybe not the best analogy but I think you get my drift.

Personally if it was me and I had the money I would lease a car until the one I dreamed of became available but that is easier done with cars then with football player.

No I get what you are saying, my stance though is that the car I have doesn't run and can't be fixed. Maybe that's too harsh for poor Dejan but that's how I see it when it comes time to play the real heavyweights in the Champion's League.

No I get what you are saying, my stance though is that the car I have doesn't run and can't be fixed. Maybe that's too harsh for poor Dejan but that's how I see it when it comes time to play the real heavyweights in the Champion's League.

Yeah I get ya..and I don't disagree however I think the manager is more into the devil that he knows vs rolling the dice on the unknown and paying to do so.

No I get what you are saying, my stance though is that the car I have doesn't run and can't be fixed. Maybe that's too harsh for poor Dejan but that's how I see it when it comes time to play the real heavyweights in the Champion's League.

This is where it gets even murkier though, because would your lease car really mean you can beat the heavyweights in the CL? Or would it just mean you'd finish less far behind them?

This is where I think Jürgen is at, I don't think he believes we can win the CL without Keita/VvD and without both do you accept matters and wait (which of course you could never admit publicly) or do you think you're wrong and try sticking a band aid on a ruptured artery?

Jürgen would be fair to think that this squad could get top 4, all subjective bias removed, we achieved it last season while ravaged with injuries and Mane missing, we should be able to do it again now that we've improved the squad (try not to bite here those that think we'll be relegation fodder ). The leap from there tot title winners, is it really achievable with just a couple of temporary fixes, or do we really believe that we need the right players who fit the system perfectly.

Granted this is all very much absolute thinking and Jürgen would have to be supremely confident in his own assessments, but he strikes me as someone who is. What I don't get is that in VvD's case there's absolutely no guarantee he'll come next season either, even with Keita, the word of a footy player these days, is it worth gambling so much on, because to believe the above you'd have to believe that Jürgen thinks enough of their word to do so. That said, I still think VvD might happen and if he did, then the fix in midfield might not have to fix an artery at that point, so things may change quite quickly in this last week of the window.

This is where it gets even murkier though, because would your lease car really mean you can beat the heavyweights in the CL? Or would it just mean you'd finish less far behind them?

This is where I think Jürgen is at, I don't think he believes we can win the CL without Keita/VvD and without both do you accept matters and wait (which of course you could never admit publicly) or do you think you're wrong and try sticking a band aid on a ruptured artery?

Jürgen would be fair to think that this squad could get top 4, all subjective bias removed, we achieved it last season while ravaged with injuries and Mane missing, we should be able to do it again now that we've improved the squad (try not to bite here those that think we'll be relegation fodder ). The leap from there tot title winners, is it really achievable with just a couple of temporary fixes, or do we really believe that we need the right players who fit the system perfectly.

Granted this is all very much absolute thinking and Jürgen would have to be supremely confident in his own assessments, but he strikes me as someone who is. What I don't get is that in VvD's case there's absolutely no guarantee he'll come next season either, even with Keita, the word of a footy player these days, is it worth gambling so much on, because to believe the above you'd have to believe that Jürgen thinks enough of their word to do so. That said, I still think VvD might happen and if he did, then the fix in midfield might not have to fix an artery at that point, so things may change quite quickly in this last week of the window.

Great post Luke....and probably correct thinking on your part.

Well I don't know what the manager is thinking but I will venture a guess and it may be right or it may be wrong..but there may be something to it.

Manager want's to improve his 1st team with quality players, but specific to the players that can play the type of football he want's to play.

Right there you can run into issues because you may be a fantastic international CB for Juve and be magnificent at defending corners but have never played a system where you play from the back or have the other qualities to needed for a specific system. That right there limits the managers pool unto which to draw players.


Manager want's to improve the squad by bringing in 1st 11 type players that will dislodge current incumbent down too the 12-20 level thus not only improving the 1st 11 but also the squad a whole....kind of a waterfall effect.

This means the manger is not looking to improve depth by bringing depth in the 12-24 range but again by improving the starting 11 and letting the quality trickle down into the 2nd team. Robertson is better than Milner which pushes Milner back into the mid-field that pushes Grujic farther down etc etc. There are short term exceptions..ie Klavan but for the most part I think this is the idea.


The manager is not going to spend just to spend...there is plan A there is no plan B.

If you think the first two ideas above are correct then it's understandable that he is trying to create depth from the 1st 11 but only specific players, that can play a specific way and offer a clear upgrade to the player they are dislodging.

Using Lovren and VVD as an example:

The manager looks at VVD and says he is a 50%+ upgrade on what I have in Lovren and Lovren is a 40% better than I have in Klavan...and Klavan is 50% better than Gomez it makes sense.

Considering there is not a plethora of carry the ball forward play at the feet CB's out there the manager looks and says sound VVD is £60+ million but he is exactly what I need and ticks all the boxes I wan't him.

VVD looks like the deal might not happen and the manager looks around and says here is another CB at £40 million but he can't do everything that VVD can do and he is only a 15% improvement on Dejan and I will still not have what I want and need to do this all again next year...screw it I will back who I have and ride it out.


I am not saying this is the right way or the wrong way, I am saying this could very well be his mindset thus the "I am not going to just buy for the sake of buying"

Many people could probably list 10+ CB's out there and available that are better than Dejan...the issue is that is our perception of what we need whereas the manager is looking at it and says...yeah I am not going to spend £40 million to improve that position by 10% and I really did not solve what I wanted to.


My 2 cents anyway.

Using cb as an example Jürgen talked about those that are used to and are comfortable  playing with space behind them so that automatically will reduce the options so hence vvd and other names being banded around and it looks to me Jürgen is looking for someone to fit that style and won't stray from that idea.

This is where it gets even murkier though, because would your lease car really mean you can beat the heavyweights in the CL? Or would it just mean you'd finish less far behind them?

This is where I think Jürgen is at, I don't think he believes we can win the CL without Keita/VvD and without both do you accept matters and wait (which of course you could never admit publicly) or do you think you're wrong and try sticking a band aid on a ruptured artery?

Jürgen would be fair to think that this squad could get top 4, all subjective bias removed, we achieved it last season while ravaged with injuries and Mane missing, we should be able to do it again now that we've improved the squad (try not to bite here those that think we'll be relegation fodder ). The leap from there tot title winners, is it really achievable with just a couple of temporary fixes, or do we really believe that we need the right players who fit the system perfectly.

Granted this is all very much absolute thinking and Jürgen would have to be supremely confident in his own assessments, but he strikes me as someone who is. What I don't get is that in VvD's case there's absolutely no guarantee he'll come next season either, even with Keita, the word of a footy player these days, is it worth gambling so much on, because to believe the above you'd have to believe that Jürgen thinks enough of their word to do so. That said, I still think VvD might happen and if he did, then the fix in midfield might not have to fix an artery at that point, so things may change quite quickly in this last week of the window.

So does that mean he believes the only 2 players in the world who can take us to the next level are VVD and Keita?

What if we never get them..............!

So does that mean he believes the only 2 players in the world who can take us to the next level are VVD and Keita?

What if we never get them..............!

I think he might believe at this time that finding a CB to play the way his system is set up is not a significant enough upgrade to warrant spending money, time, effort into versus what he has now.

As I said in a previous post VVD being a 50+% upgrade on Lovren is worth every penny of £60-75 million whereas spending £40 million on a 15% upgrade on Lovren that still leaves him needing yet another upgrade is not worth doing.

That is my take anyway.

You make salient points; however, if I need a car that runs (vs the broken down one that I have) but I can't get the one that I really want, I have to buy one that's better than what I have or I don't get to work. I believe that's where we are with Lovren. If we don't get something better than what we have at CB, we aren't going to get to work (title, cup final, etc...)

Or in Klavans case, a skateboard...

I think he might believe at this time that finding a CB to play the way his system is set up is not a significant enough upgrade to warrant spending money, time, effort into versus what he has now.

As I said in a previous post VVD being a 50+% upgrade on Lovren is worth every penny of £60-75 million whereas spending £40 million on a 15% upgrade on Lovren that still leaves him needing yet another upgrade is not worth doing.

That is my take anyway.

Why not sign him anyway? Its going to be a long season, and injuries, internationals, cup games, tiredness, all of that is going to creep in at some point. Who cares if he is going to cost that much? what are we waiting for? another defender to appear out of nowhere for cheap? and what is going to happen to this money if he decides not to spend it? we all know the answer to that one.

At the end of the season we need a SQUAD, not first 11 players every time. Having a settled side is useful, but with the amount of games we have coming we will need to rest players, who cares if signings are a massive improvement or not? as long as they can do the job we shouldn't need to be concerned with spending, just get them in!

Why not sign him anyway? Its going to be a long season, and injuries, internationals, cup games, tiredness, all of that is going to creep in at some point. Who cares if he is going to cost that much? what are we waiting for? another defender to appear out of nowhere for cheap? and what is going to happen to this money if he decides not to spend it? we all know the answer to that one.

At the end of the season we need a SQUAD, not first 11 players every time. Having a settled side is useful, but with the amount of games we have coming we will need to rest players, who cares if signings are a massive improvement or not? as long as they can do the job we shouldn't need to be concerned with spending, just get them in!

You'd need to ask the manager that...my post was nothing more than an opinion on how he might look at things.

Well I don't know what the manager is thinking but I will venture a guess and it may be right or it may be wrong..but there may be something to it.

Manager want's to improve his 1st team with quality players, but specific to the players that can play the type of football he want's to play.

Right there you can run into issues because you may be a fantastic international CB for Juve and be magnificent at defending corners but have never played a system where you play from the back or have the other qualities to needed for a specific system. That right there limits the managers pool unto which to draw players.


Manager want's to improve the squad by bringing in 1st 11 type players that will dislodge current incumbent down too the 12-20 level thus not only improving the 1st 11 but also the squad a whole....kind of a waterfall effect.

This means the manger is not looking to improve depth by bringing depth in the 12-24 range but again by improving the starting 11 and letting the quality trickle down into the 2nd team. Robertson is better than Milner which pushes Milner back into the mid-field that pushes Grujic farther down etc etc. There are short term exceptions..ie Klavan but for the most part I think this is the idea.


The manager is not going to spend just to spend...there is plan A there is no plan B.

If you think the first two ideas above are correct then it's understandable that he is trying to create depth from the 1st 11 but only specific players, that can play a specific way and offer a clear upgrade to the player they are dislodging.

Using Lovren and VVD as an example:

The manager looks at VVD and says he is a 50%+ upgrade on what I have in Lovren and Lovren is a 40% better than I have in Klavan...and Klavan is 50% better than Gomez it makes sense.

Considering there is not a plethora of carry the ball forward play at the feet CB's out there the manager looks and says sound VVD is £60+ million but he is exactly what I need and ticks all the boxes I wan't him.

VVD looks like the deal might not happen and the manager looks around and says here is another CB at £40 million but he can't do everything that VVD can do and he is only a 15% improvement on Dejan and I will still not have what I want and need to do this all again next year...screw it I will back who I have and ride it out.


I am not saying this is the right way or the wrong way, I am saying this could very well be his mindset thus the "I am not going to just buy for the sake of buying"

Many people could probably list 10+ CB's out there and available that are better than Dejan...the issue is that is our perception of what we need whereas the manager is looking at it and says...yeah I am not going to spend £40 million to improve that position by 10% and I really did not solve what I wanted to.


My 2 cents anyway.

But what happens in January, next summer, next January, the summer after that.

What happens if he still can't get his top targets or people who are 50% better than we have? Do we just stick with what we have?

Not trying to sound like a dick it was a decent post you wrote. Just mean something's gotta give along the line with regards to dropping his standards and signing those 15/20% extra's.

So if that's the case why not this season where we could actually really need it.

Imagine we self destruct again this year and don't make the champs league.

Next summer it will be the old no champions league crap again.

But what happens in January, next summer, next January, the summer after that.

What happens if he still can't get his top targets? Do we just stick with what we have?

I would guess he would have to answer for it.


Look the manager is not pep nor is he Maureen; I really don't think he does mercenaries, he likes a tight squad and doesn't do things if it goes against what he is about.

Look the easiest fix is already an LFC player...Sakho at worst is a #2/#3 CB...he is under contract and being paid the same every week for doing nothing. It is a simple fix to put him in the squad and say look just like a new signing (which it really would be) for reasons known only to a few he has frozen him out and does not even consider him an option.

There were more than one person on this board that said when he came in that the manager does not buy superstars or ready made players; he would rather grow them, train them and make them rather than buy them.

Mane-Salah-Robertson-Solanke-Gruijc all right there with that philosophy.

VVD & Keita while talented also right there..more expensive yes? but in comparison to Neymar or Pogba..its more an indication of the crazy inflation than a change in his ideas.

If you asked me I would go grab a Jonathan Tah or someone like that...but that is up to the manager; personally I would rather bring in a couple of talented trainable 22 year old CB that could be groomed vs. VVD or nothing, but again not my call.

I think he might believe at this time that finding a CB to play the way his system is set up is not a significant enough upgrade to warrant spending money, time, effort into versus what he has now.

As I said in a previous post VVD being a 50+% upgrade on Lovren is worth every penny of £60-75 million whereas spending £40 million on a 15% upgrade on Lovren that still leaves him needing yet another upgrade is not worth doing.

That is my take anyway.

There is loads of CB's who are better defensively that can play the high line and also have pace another aspect that Lovren lacks.

I highly doubt Klopp thinks like an accountant, how much incremental benefit am I going to get on every extra £M spent and there is no reason for a coach at the 9th richest football club in the world to act either.

Remember the FSG spin earlier in the year this will be a record breaking transfer kitty,  we were told forget about £100M think closer to £200M - what a joke.

I just think it's simply our scouts have not identified any decent 2nd choices.

With the exception of Loveren we probably just have the squad to compete in the CL but to want to finish 4th or above then we need further investment, FSG appear to not want to invest. So it appears we are in the same position as we were with H & G going nowhere

Look the easiest fix is already an LFC player...Sakho at worst is a #2/#3 CB...he is under contract and being paid the same every week for doing nothing. It is a simple fix to put him in the squad and say look just like a new signing (which it really would be) for reasons known only to a few he has frozen him out and does not even consider him an option.

There were more than one person on this board that said when he came in that the manager does not buy superstars or ready made players; he would rather grow them, train them and make them rather than buy them.

Mane-Salah-Robertson-Solanke-Gruijc all right there with that philosophy.

VVD & Keita while talented also right there..more expensive yes? but in comparison to Neymar or Pogba..its more an indication of the crazy inflation than a change in his ideas.

If you asked me I would go grab a Jonathan Tah or someone like that...but that is up to the manager; personally I would rather bring in a couple of talented trainable 22 year old CB that could be groomed vs. VVD or nothing, but again not my call.

I would guess he would have to answer for it.


Look the manager is not pep nor is he Maureen; I really don't think he does mercenaries, he likes a tight squad and doesn't do things if it goes against what he is about.

Look the easiest fix is already an LFC player...Sakho at worst is a #2/#3 CB...he is under contract and being paid the same every week for doing nothing. It is a simple fix to put him in the squad and say look just like a new signing (which it really would be) for reasons known only to a few he has frozen him out and does not even consider him an option.

There were more than one person on this board that said when he came in that the manager does not buy superstars or ready made players; he would rather grow them, train them and make them rather than buy them.

Mane-Salah-Robertson-Solanke-Gruijc all right there with that philosophy.

VVD & Keita while talented also right there..more expensive yes? but in comparison to Neymar or Pogba..its more an indication of the crazy inflation than a change in his ideas.

If you asked me I would go grab a Jonathan Tah or someone like that...but that is up to the manager; personally I would rather bring in a couple of talented trainable 22 year old CB that could be groomed vs. VVD or nothing, but again not my call.

Mate that's not true otherwise he would not want to spend £60M+ on VVD and Keita that's £120M on just two players!

Mate that's not true otherwise he would not want to spend £60M+ on VVD and Keita that's £120M on just two players!

If you went back even as earlier as last Summer VVD was probably a 35 million defender and Keita a 25 million mid....don't think the prices (high or low) is in the managers thinking if the rest of the criteria was met. Either way VVD has never played in the CL..he played for Celtic & Soton...Keita has played for RB Salzburg and RB Liepzig....neither one of these player have earned the right to be called world class....lots of talent, proven world class probably not.

Mane was 30 milllion...I'd say this window he would be 90-100 million.
Salah was 35 million....two months later I would say 45-50 million.

Player pricing right now is not indicative of actual or proven ability....it's all be skewd to the umpteenth degree.

I highly doubt Klopp thinks like an accountant, how much incremental benefit am I going to get on every extra £M spent and there is no reason for a coach at the 9th richest football club in the world to act either.

Honestly HsC I really believe that is the way he thinks about things....just my opinion but I think behind that easy going exterior is a ruthless German who looks to maximise/minimize everything he has control of.

I think the issue here is, it will take HUGE money to pull VVD and Keita away from their teams and we clearly won't pay that. Throw 80m at Saints and they'll drive VVD to Liverpool.

Throw 100m at Keita and RB would do the same.

That's just my opinion, but I reckon had we made bids like this earlier in the window when those teams could have spent the money we'd have our players.

So you can make up your own mind who might be against bidding those insane types of amounts to get Klopp his 1st choice players.

That's just my opinion, but I reckon had we made bids like this earlier in the window when those teams could have spent the money we'd have our players.

Saints have already bought two new centrebacks and just finished up giving they're last years #2 Cb a new 5 year contract.

How many more do they need?

Saints have already bought two new centrebacks and just finished up giving they're last years #2 Cb a new 5 year contract.

How many more do they need?

Don't think they only need CBs though. They could go after proper attacking players or whatever. That's a ton of money they'd have had to spend and who knows...maybe if we bid 80m today they'd take it even this late, but we may never know because it looks like even if we have bid like some say we have (in secret), we still didn't come close to their valuation. (Surprise).

Don't think they only need CBs though. They could go after proper attacking players or whatever. That's a ton of money they'd have had to spend and who knows...maybe if we bid 80m today they'd take it even this late, but we may never know because it looks like even if we have bid like some say we have (in secret), we still didn't come close to their valuation. (Surprise).

Could it have been that part of that was that they were in the middle of being purchased and that only just concluded 10 days ago?

I don't know.....bout at the point where I don't care.

Could it have been that part of that was that they were in the middle of being purchased and that only just concluded 10 days ago?

I don't know.....bout at the point where I don't care.

Yep, just shut the damn window already. It's our own fault we haven't signed anyone. Like a monkey humping a football we are with transfers.