Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

Wow, well and truly bent over and fu**ed deep in the arse.

Without Vasaline, Spit , KY gel or nothing

So if you go for an bicycle kick you risk getting a red card then? Because there's no way you could see what the players behind you are going to do. If one of them gets brave and jumps in to head the ball, and you kick his face instead, would you get a red card in that scenario?
Genuinely curious, because I've never seen anyone getting expelled from doing a bicycle kick.

My weekend is well and truly ruined.
11 against 11 at 0-1 and we were right in that game, City were sh*te..!

Were we watching the same game...??

From the FIFA rulebook:

"Careless" means that the player has show a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge or that he acted without precaution:

- no further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless.

"Reckless" means tht the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent:

- a player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned.

"Using excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the necessary us of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent:

- a player who uses excessive force shall be sent off.

Now this is the key part of the rules. Did Mane use excessive force, was he reckless or was he careless? Given that he is entitled to go for the ball that far up the field compared to the natural positioning for a goalkeeper, and given that his eyes are on the ball at all times which makes seeing the keeper rushing out like a madman problematic, if could be argued that he was careless. Given that Mane kicked him in the head, it could be argued he was reckless. Did he use excessive force given that he was trying to do a take down with the ball? Absolutely not.

The keeper should simply not be throwing his head at a ball 40 yards from goal - it's mind boggling stupidity, and besides hoping the fella is okay, I hope someone talks some sense into that hopefully F***ing thick skull of his.

Thing is BigV, it only looked stupid because when the keeper dipped his head to head the ball he didn't expect to see a big size 9 studded boot where Mane's head should have been. If the keeper knew that was incoming, he probably wouldn't have put his head in the way

Mignolet: 'Being dropped always makes me stronger' and then he comes in and concedes 5 goals.. it almost looks like he's trolling us.

Thing is BigV, it only looked stupid because when the keeper dipped his head to head the ball he didn't expect to see a big size 9 studded boot where Mane's head should have been. If the keeper knew that was incoming, he probably wouldn't have put his head in the way

If they both miss the ball and each other what card if any is given?

A karate kick 6 feet in the air would be the definition of endangering someones safety. Not sure why its even a issue.

Lets not let the red card disguise a dismal performance, we should be discussing that shocking defensive performance instead.

So would an overhead kick be dangerous play as well? Would it warrant a red if it was an honest attempt to play a ball and another player stuck his head in the path? Honestly asking.

From the FIFA rulebook:

"Careless" means that the player has show a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge or that he acted without precaution:

- no further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless.

"Reckless" means tht the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent:

- a player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned.

"Using excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the necessary us of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent:

- a player who uses excessive force shall be sent off.

Now this is the key part of the rules. Did Mane use excessive force, was he reckless or was he careless? Given that he is entitled to go for the ball that far up the field compared to the natural positioning for a goalkeeper, and given that his eyes are on the ball at all times which makes seeing the keeper rushing out like a madman problematic, if could be argued that he was careless. Given that Mane kicked him in the head, it could be argued he was reckless. Did he use excessive force given that he was trying to do a take down with the ball? Absolutely not.

This is where it's at, and why there's some real dumb sh*t being talked here. It was possibly reckless, if only because Mane was being such a dumb c**t I guess for having eyes only for the ball? Lord forbid the b***ard play different than the Mane that has been a revelation since arrival. So a caution AT BEST if we're talking letter of the law. It was the wrong call. Simple.

If he'd gone in late with the studs above his knee nobody would be questioning it. Not sure how late and with the studs to the f**king Chevy Chase is getting so much leeway.

Was he genuinely going for the ball? Yes.

Was he late and did he tw*t the keeper in the grid with his studs? Yes.

I know what type of things I'd have been thinking if it was the other way around as well as: "Oh f**k, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse Loris is coming on".

So would an overhead kick be dangerous play as well? Would it warrant a red if it was an honest attempt to play a ball and another player stuck his head in the path? Honestly asking.

+1 Because I'm calling for a ban on all bicycles if this dumb talk continues. Dutch be damned.

From the FIFA rulebook:

"Careless" means that the player has show a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge or that he acted without precaution:

- no further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless.

"Reckless" means tht the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent:

- a player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned.

"Using excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the necessary us of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent:

- a player who uses excessive force shall be sent off.

Now this is the key part of the rules. Did Mane use excessive force, was he reckless or was he careless? Given that he is entitled to go for the ball that far up the field compared to the natural positioning for a goalkeeper, and given that his eyes are on the ball at all times which makes seeing the keeper rushing out like a madman problematic, if could be argued that he was careless. Given that Mane kicked him in the head, it could be argued he was reckless. Did he use excessive force given that he was trying to do a take down with the ball? Absolutely not.

The rules of the game are fine. It's the incompetent fucks that reinforce them that's the issue.

This is where it's at, and why there's some real dumb sh*t being talked here. It was possibly reckless, if only because Mane was being such a dumb c**t I guess for having eyes only for the ball? Lord forbid the b***ard play different than the Mane that has been a revelation since arrival. So a caution AT BEST if we're talking letter of the law. It was the wrong call. Simple.

By the FA rules, the ref can still send him off if he got the ball and scored, and disallow the goal too.
There is no current rule that goalkeepers can't head a ball outside the box. Mane could have headed the ball.

If he'd gone in late with the studs above his knee nobody would be questioning it. Not sure how late and with the studs to the f**king Chevy Chase is getting so much leeway.

Was he genuinely going for the ball? Yes.

Was he late and did he tw*t the keeper in the grid with his studs? Yes.

I know what type of things I'd have been thinking if it was the other way around as well as: "Oh f**k, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse Loris is coming on".

If he'd gone in late with his studs above the knee, sure.

He didn't.

By the FA rules, the ref can still send him off if he got the ball and scored, and disallow the goal too.

The FA can also ruin Luis Suarez because Patrice Evra cries F***ing wolf. So what?

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

In case you would like to contact them to tell them they missed out the intent part, seeing as you make the rules... here

http://www.thefa.com/about-football-association/contact-us

Fair enough, I couldn't find a direct mention to this type of situation, all I could remember was the distinction between careless, reckless and excessive force. And in that case, only the latter is a sending off offence. Still, it's not true that every single dangerous play is a sending off offence as you were saying - this excerpt refers to the definition of "serious foul play", which is a different thing. However, given that Mané's challenge can be classified as 'serious foul play' as described in that second paragraph, the red card was probably the correct decision.

Anyway, the FA doesn't make the rules, so it would be pointless to contact them. It's the IFAB you'd have to speak to.

The FA can also ruin Luis Suarez because Patrice Evra cries f**king wolf. So what?

Pretty irrelevant, but if some of my relatives who are not 100% white, were called a specific colour 10+ times and the offenders turned around and said.. it's okay because I am from Uraguay.. I would tell them we aren't in Uraguay.. crimes are committed based on the law of the land not country of birth. Racism has no part in football.

By the FA rules, the ref can still send him off if he got the ball and scored, and disallow the goal too.
There is no current rule that goalkeepers can't head a ball outside the box. Mane could have headed the ball.

No there isn't but a striker is entitled to go for a 50/50 ball in that part of the pitch. It's the actions of the Keeper that result in the injury, not the actions of Mane. It's akin to my pulling my leg back to kick a ball and you sticking your leg between me and the ball and my getting sent off for giving you a good ol' whack on the ankle.

No there isn't but a striker is entitled to go for a 50/50 ball in that part of the pitch. It's the actions of the Keeper that result in the injury, not the actions of Mane. It's akin to my pulling my leg back to kick a ball and you sticking your leg between me and the ball and my getting sent off for giving you a good ol' whack on the ankle.

This is where you are wrong, high footed challenges are ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION considered dangerous.

From the FIFA rulebook:

"Careless" means that the player has show a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge or that he acted without precaution:

- no further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless.

"Reckless" means tht the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent:

- a player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned.

"Using excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the necessary us of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent:

- a player who uses excessive force shall be sent off.

Now this is the key part of the rules. Did Mane use excessive force, was he reckless or was he careless? Given that he is entitled to go for the ball that far up the field compared to the natural positioning for a goalkeeper, and given that his eyes are on the ball at all times which makes seeing the keeper rushing out like a madman problematic, if could be argued that he was careless. Given that Mane kicked him in the head, it could be argued he was reckless. Did he use excessive force given that he was trying to do a take down with the ball? Absolutely not.

I agree with your view that he was surely reckless, but did not use excessive force.

However, the rules also specify what "serious foul play" is, saying that "any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play". I'd find it hard to argue that Mané did not lunge at the opponent endangering his safety, so he was probably guilty of serious foul play and that is indeed a sending off offence.

The rules can be confusing as F**k and I don't understand how anyone can want to be a referee. In any case, even if one disagrees with the decision, it's clear that the ref can refer to the rulebook to back it up, and so it's kinda pointless to blame it on him. Mané should've known better

Pretty irrelevant, but if some of my relatives who are not 100% white, were called a specific colour 10+ times and the offenders turned around and said.. it's okay because I am from Uraguay.. I would tell them we aren't in Uraguay.. crimes are committed based on the law of the land not country of birth. Racism has no part in football.

K bro. We know where you stand on that whole thing then.

Quote from heimdall on Today at 04:32:33 pm
For us it was a bad day against a very good team and when we lost Mane we completely lost our confidence and shape.

Agreed, not a point touched on enough yet in my opinion.

Jürgen noted this problem around January/Feb when we hit our slump that when things go against us the negativity and  expectance of failure seems to kick in. We don't have that personality in the team that sees adversity and spits in it's face outside apart from Mane. Firmino will never let his head drop and will keep pushing but that arrogance, sure it might be what got him sent off today, but more of our lads need it.

Most especially this is needed in your midfield, from that position you can influence tempo more than any other, in both a defensive and attacking sense. I'm not talking Roy Keane, level of aggression, but something just a bit nasty that gets the lads fired up, while we took a couple of punches today there was nobody bouncing back from the ropes with their own. We'd had our guard lowered and were simply there for the taking.

This character trait can't be coached either, or not in my opinion anyway, it's a way of life. You either accept failure as "one of those things" or "oh well" or you fight against it and while sometimes, perhaps many, you wont overcome it, there will be times when "one of those things" or "or well" was actually wrong and a bit of grit/determination and pure anger that "this is not happening to me!" Will get you through to the other side.

Are we a bunch of wimps that are easily intimidated by both the way things unfold and aggressive opponents, in the middle of the park and in between the sticks this is an over-riding problem that has been with us and will remain with us as long as these same players continue to be selected. Spit in the face of adversity, a bit more of "bring it on bi*ch!" attitude, I'd love to see it from us.

If he'd gone in late with his studs above the knee, sure.

He didn't.

I know. He we went in late with the studs to his head instead. Not sure why people are frothing at the mouth that much. That's a strong case for a red. Very strong.