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      Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players

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      The Fallen Soldier
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #23: Nov 23, 2007 07:15:33 pm
      True! This thing has been blown way out of proportion! I don't think there is as much of a problem as is being made out by the papers! Fingers crossed anyways! Exactly what we need isn't it? :P

      Its more than way out of proportion its giving the media ammunition, this is why I still think that both should just STFU. And do it behind closed doors, and they need to do it fast,................... NO in fact F**k it lets do the American way QUEENSBURY RULES fisty cuffs at 20 paces, my monies on Rafa as he has a slightly bigger belly if anyones got a bet for Hicks Im in at 9/1 for Rafa to knock him out in the 3rd. FFS its getting banal but if the media cant cream any more crap off the info orange then dont be surprised to see the Next Sky Sports pay per view being Rafa and Hicks going at it in Las Vegas all exclusive live event for £1400.95 punch off at 3am.
      kingjari
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #24: Nov 23, 2007 08:29:15 pm
      Has it struck anyone how surreal  this situation really is. only yesterday I was reading an interview with Rafa in the official mag where he stated he'd like to stay at anfield for more than twenty years, about half an hour later I read Tony Barrett's Echo article online. Both of Barrets articles yesterday and today have a slightly sensationalist tone to them, and have alarmed a lot of reds fans myself included. But to be honest this macho posturing between Hicks and Rafa clearly has'nt helped the situation. it's interesting that Rick Parry has'nt pipped up yet to try and calm the waters, his column in next weeks LFC magazine is going to be interesting !!
      Why do things like this always seem to happen to us the Noel white saga, Paco leaving, bust ups between the Manager and owners and even bust ups between our co-chairmen if the gutter press are to be believed !! Does anyone else have the feeling we've been cursed by a blueshite or manure supporting witch ?? supporting this club is as much a daily test of faith, patience and belief as going to any church, mosque or a synagogue.
      any way back to topic as I read the north wales daily post today a throwaway line in an artice by ian doyle really got me thinking. It said that "Foster Gillette was back in america for an extended period"  Is this part of the reason for Rafa's outburst maybe. as I recall Foster is meant to be in this country full time , the face of the co-chairmen at anfield. He's meant to work with rick parry and Rafa as
      a quicker way of communicating with the owners so that their not waiting weeks for answers to their questions about finances et al
      I know it's probably nothing but I had a bad feeling when I read that line to me it meant "Rafa's been abandoned". I can also only assume that Rafa and Rick's working relationship is hardly peachy after Rafa's outburst post-Athens.
      I hope this sh*te is put to bed quickly for the good of our club,  the fans Faith, the players state of mind and for Rafa too.
      YNWA Rafa
      Sorry i forgot to ask did they show the now infamous interview on LFC TV at all ?? interesting to know if they chose to broadcast it or not !
      « Last Edit: Nov 23, 2007 08:34:07 pm by kingjari »
      smigger15
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #25: Nov 23, 2007 08:49:50 pm
      I agree that more is probably being made of this than there actually is to it, but it is gonna have a disruptive effect on the team & needs to be sorted. One thing's for certain, Tony Barrett certainly isn't helping at all. I'm not sure myself, does anyone know wher his loyalties lie club-wise?

      Just posted this in another topic :  My friend goes out with Ian Doyle (Daily Post Chief Sports Writer), I asked her to ask Ian just what team does Barrett support - just had text back and Ian says he supports Liverpool    ???  You'd never think so would you ?  ;)
      liverpaul
      • Forum John Barnes
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #26: Nov 23, 2007 09:16:46 pm
      its rafas team he knows the players he wants and the new yankee owners wont let him go to them and say in jan i want this player and that player, rafa is well within his right to do that and the owners should listen as they know nothing about our football.

      However using a press conference to put the shits up the board saying maybe england so the board will panic into thinking he will go if he doesnt get his own way is not the right way to do it in my opinon i think rafa needs to watch how he handles the situation and i hope he knows what he is doing.
      JD
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #27: Nov 23, 2007 09:17:44 pm
      They all need to grow up.

      Having a public spat is not the way our club is run. Where is Gillett these days? He is certainly the more media savvy of all 3 of them. And where is slick Rick?
      JD
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #28: Nov 23, 2007 09:20:08 pm
      By the way, yes, the press conference is on the official site
      solodee
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #29: Nov 23, 2007 09:58:57 pm
      Maybe Rafa is hell bent on selling Crouch to raise funds for a big spanish name (David Villa?)... and this is Rick Parry's way of gently telling Rafa who really is in charge.


      it will be out of place to sell Crouch. He is too valuable to Liverpool. IMO
      « Last Edit: Nov 23, 2007 10:02:26 pm by solodee »
      liverpaul
      • Forum John Barnes
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #30: Nov 23, 2007 10:02:26 pm
      A phrase that lifted the lid on Anfield's inner turmoil
      Nov 23 2007 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

      Liverpool writer Tony Barrett analyses the civil war threatening to break out at Anfield and the reasons behind the sudden outburst

      "AS always I am focused on training and coaching my team." - on the surface a throwaway phrase from Rafa Benitez indicating he is interested in nothing but getting the best out of his team.

      But as the Liverpool manager uttered these words again and again in response to routine questioning at a Melwood press conference yesterday afternoon Anfield officials shuddered – this was the clearest sign yet that Benitez was losing patience with the club’s American owners.

      The fact that the very same words were used by Tom Hicks and George Gillett in a recent communication delivered to the Spaniard when Benitez had sought rapid movement on potential deals for the January transfer window marked this out as a thinly veiled attack on his employers.

      But, as a hastily released statement on the club’s official website reiterated, Hicks and Gillett are in no mood to discuss comings and goings at Anfield for the time being at least.

      That statement – issued from America just two hours after Benitez’s press conference – read: “We made a significant investment in the playing squad during the summer and desperately want this team to succeed.

      “There are some very important games coming up in the next couple of weeks and all of us need to focus on winning those games and getting the best out of the players we already have at the club.

      “We will leave any talk of buying or selling players until we come across to Liverpool in December and sit down with the manager then.”

      As far as they are concerned, such conversations will take place when they come to Anfield for the visit of Manchester United on December 16.

      In the wake of the rift between Benitez and the club’s hierarchy being exposed in all its gory detail, that meeting assumes even greater significance. An almost total breakdown in communications, a growing sense of mutual suspicion and even a sprinkling of resentment means that when Benitez finally sits down with Hicks and Gillett their entire working relationship will be in question.

      In many respects, the current impasse is simply a clash of two very different cultures.

      Madrid-born Benitez, ever impatient for success, wants to see the club making progress on all fronts today, not wait until tomorrow to see what the future brings, by which time potential transfer targets may have moved elsewhere.

      As a pure football man, the vagaries of high finance and restructuring deals mean little to him. All he wants to know is that he can bring in the players he feels Liverpool need if they are to mount a genuine Premiership challenge this season.

      But Hicks and Gillett, businessmen to their very core, want to see a return on their initial investment before they even think of sanctioning further spending.

      And that means satisfying themselves that the money spent on players like Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel, Andriy Voronin and Yossi Benayoun in pre-season will pay dividends.

      That is why a deal to sign Javier Mascherano is yet to be signed and sealed and why moves for other targets – even much needed central defensive reinforcements – are being put on the backburner, and Benitez has been so brusquely told to concentrate on coaching the players he already has at his disposal.

      Last May, the Americans were left shocked and disappointed by Benitez’s outburst the morning after the Champions League Final in Athens when he again used a press conference to state his case.

      Then, he talked of the need for an Anfield revolution and for the club’s new owners to invest heavily if Liverpool were to compete at the top level.

      Yesterday, he asked not for a revolution and not for millions upon millions of pounds to spend. He asked to be given the freedom to operate in the transfer market without restrictions, to be allowed to sell players no longer deemed of any great valueto fund the acquisition of players whom he feels can make a real difference.

      Benitez has been here before, of course. In his final season at Valencia he clashed with sporting director Jesus Garcia Pitarch over the La Liga side’s transfer policy time and time again.

      At one stage he became so frustrated, he famously accused his boss of bringing him a lampshade when he’d asked for a table.

      This time around Benitez has been told not only is the furniture store not yet open, he can’t even get rid of the table and chairs he no longer likes until Hicks and Gillett give the go-ahead to do so.

      In his eyes, this is an infringement on his jurisdiction as team manager. In the view of the Americans, it is a normal business practice as they take stock of how their investment is performing.

      The rights and wrongs of the two positions can be debated endlessly.

      On the one hand, the transfer market will not wait for Liverpool and by mid-December it is wholly possible that the players Benitez has earmarked will have tired of waiting for the Reds to make their move and gone elsewhere.

      It is also almost unheard of for a top European club not to decide upon its transfer strategy until two weeks before the window opens and that clearly carries its own risks.

      But, on the other hand, the delay could result in Liverpool’s own financial situation becoming much clearer by the time the meeting between Benitez and the Americans takes place.

      Talks aimed at securing a major financial restructuring deal with two American banks are at an advanced stage and are expected to come to fruition before mid-December.

      Also, the fact that the meeting is pencilled in to take place the weekend after Liverpool will have either reached the knockout stages of the Champions League or been knocked out of the lucrative competition altogether is likely to be more than a mere coincidence.

      Liverpool’s whole spending power for the immediate future will be determined in early December and should things have not gone to plan on and off the pitch it is eminently possible that the manager’s hands will be tied in the transfer market.

      For the time being, both parties are engaged in a game of risk being played for the highest stakes.

      Benitez’s outburst yesterday and the Americans’ reaction to it has hardened positions and there appears little prospect of any ground being given in the short term, particularly with the chances of mediation being so slim with Benitez’s relationship with chief executive Rick Parry also at a low point.

      Hicks and Gillett do not want to be seen to giving into demands and, as hard nosed American businessmen, the chances of them doing so seem remote at best.

      But their position is far from risk-free. They will know, for example, that Mascherano’s situation at Anfield is being monitored by some of Europe’s top clubs, all eager to snatch the Argentinian midfielder away from Liverpool’s grasp when a deal for him could already have been concluded.

      They have also been given details of Benitez’s entire transfer strategy for the coming weeks – with players marked for departure as well as arrival and a desire on the manager’s behalf to balance the books – and should the necessary defensive reinforcements not be recruited then an injury to one of the Liverpool’s main defenders could cost them any realistic hopes of challenging for the title.

      For Benitez, the risks could not be greater. He has publicly challenged his employers for a second time in a bid to spur them into action.

      Should they refuse to budge, his bluff will have been called and he will have to decide whether he can continue to work for people who have refused to back his judgement.

      Earlier this week, Benitez spoke openly about being happy with his club, his players and his city. Yesterday, he was so unhappy with his lot he even talked of becoming the next manager of England.

      It seems improbable that such talk was anything more than a shot across the bows for Messrs Hicks and Gillett.

      But the fact that they fired straight back, and with interest, has today left Benitez at the crossroads of his Anfield career.

      That meeting on December 16 may have to be brought forward – it is time for the air at Anfield to be cleared once and for all.

      srslfc
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #31: Nov 24, 2007 12:30:40 am
      Rafa didn't buy big enough in the summer. 

      Agree with this JD but did he really have the money to spend on the top quality players?? I think the new owners are trying to play a 'media friendly' game with this. They can say that Rafa spent big in the summer but when we look at the money coming from sales as well we know he didn't spend as much as the media will lead most people to believe.

      Pragmatic made an excellent point in that Tom Hicks and George Gillett will only see the money they have put in for transfers and will either convieniently forget or overlook the money Rafa has recouped in sales during the summer. I feel this could be one of the main reasons behind Rafa's frustration as most people think Liverpool have spent big over the summer, when really we have not spent much more than in other seasons.

      Rafa will walk - he won't wait for the pay-off.

      Although I personally don't think Rafa will walk away from the job, I do agree with Donrafael that if he was ever to be pushed too far he would have no hesitation to walk away from the job but in reality I think that point is a long way off and that this will be resolved(if indeed there is anything to resolve) pretty quickly!
      popool
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #32: Nov 24, 2007 01:14:56 am
      Talk about trying to let everyone (including Rafa)know who is Boss...
      What I find odd is that our distant Chairmen would try and unsettle Rafa from afar, when the alternative to our manager is a funding plan of biblicale proportions if they want to replace him.
      what is the alternative to backing Rafa now?
      As far as i am concerned it is the risk of losing him and then having to find the dollars which would take our new guy in his direction.
      Rafa has every right to ask what his budget will be in the January transfer window now.
      what is the point of finding out in December when every forward-thinking team has established (and tapped up) their principal targets. Telling a man of Rafa's calibre to coach his team is a real slap in the face, and is a personal affront to his development of where we need to be.
      He is a stubborn swine with team selection, which has left us all aghast at some stage or other, but let's be honest, we are progressing AND are still unbeaten in the league, whereas last season the title was a distant,torn up betting slip. How many of us who gamble every year on us winning the title have thrown our slip for this season away yet?
      Nine points from our next three will be a recognition of our progress this season, and is realistic, which then questions the timing of our Chairmens rebuke of our managers need for forward planning.
      That is who and what Rafa is. He is pragmatic, and forward thinking.
      I know we all feel he can be a pain in the backside with his selection policy, but it has worked within all of his managerial  success, so why change?
      i love to here his interviews where he explains his rotation as an ulterior motive to our strength when the season really matters. He believes when it comes down to the business end of the season, he has a squad who can deliver. Let's be honest, we haven't had a decent run yet and are still unbeaten, previously we were already out of it.
      Valencia won their first title with Rafa under very similar circumstances, as anyone who has read Rafa's book will know. The only difference so far is a decent run of wins, which even in our previous seasons under Rafa, is something we have always been capable of.
      If the Americans destabilise us at this most crucial juncture in our progress under Rafa, it will cost them multi-millions to back a new guy, and lose the impetus (sometimes hard to recognise) we are making under our Rafa.
      Mark my words, it will be a sad day if we allow our distant rulers dictate the departure of our best asset by far.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #33: Nov 24, 2007 01:26:13 am
      Talk about trying to let everyone (including Rafa)know who is Boss...
      What I find odd is that our distant Chairmen would try and unsettle Rafa from afar, when the alternative to our manager is a funding plan of biblicale proportions if they want to replace him.
      what is the alternative to backing Rafa now?
      As far as I am concerned it is the risk of losing him and then having to find the dollars which would take our new guy in his direction.
      Rafa has every right to ask what his budget will be in the January transfer window now.
      what is the point of finding out in December when every forward-thinking team has established (and tapped up) their principal targets. Telling a man of Rafa's calibre to coach his team is a real slap in the face, and is a personal affront to his development of where we need to be.
      He is a stubborn swine with team selection, which has left us all aghast at some stage or other, but let's be honest, we are progressing AND are still unbeaten in the league, whereas last season the title was a distant,torn up betting slip. How many of us who gamble every year on us winning the title have thrown our slip for this season away yet?
      Nine points from our next three will be a recognition of our progress this season, and is realistic, which then questions the timing of our Chairmens rebuke of our managers need for forward planning.
      That is who and what Rafa is. He is pragmatic, and forward thinking.
      I know we all feel he can be a pain in the backside with his selection policy, but it has worked within all of his managerial  success, so why change?
      I love to here his interviews where he explains his rotation as an ulterior motive to our strength when the season really matters. He believes when it comes down to the business end of the season, he has a squad who can deliver. Let's be honest, we haven't had a decent run yet and are still unbeaten, previously we were already out of it.
      Valencia won their first title with Rafa under very similar circumstances, as anyone who has read Rafa's book will know. The only difference so far is a decent run of wins, which even in our previous seasons under Rafa, is something we have always been capable of.
      If the Americans destabilise us at this most crucial juncture in our progress under Rafa, it will cost them multi-millions to back a new guy, and lose the impetus (sometimes hard to recognise) we are making under our Rafa.
      Mark my words, it will be a sad day if we allow our distant rulers dictate the departure of our best asset by far.

      Excellent post mate! The only point I would make is that we dont fully know what exactly is being said between Rafa and the owners, but I do agree that if Tom and George think that by Rafa leaving it wll save them money then they don't really understand the English game. It will cost them just as much to fund a new manager as it will to give Rafa the money to buy who he wants this winter, and I know who I would want to be in charge of the team come transfer time!!
      koolkidda
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #34: Nov 24, 2007 03:20:49 pm
      Not sure if this was posted but Rick Parry is alive and well and said this before the Newcastle game...

      “We need to focus on events on the pitch and nothing else, starting with today’s game against Newcastle.

      “Next we have another big game against Porto in the Champions League so we are in the midst of a string of important games and we just need to focus on events on the pitch, which has always been the Liverpool way.”
      king kenny
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #35: Nov 24, 2007 03:36:41 pm
      Maybe the owners want to see the outcome of the champions league before making their intentions in the transfer market clearer!
      koolkidda
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #36: Nov 24, 2007 03:39:56 pm
      Benitez admits the issue was to do with transfers - and it looks like the signing of new players.

      http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/lfc-news/2007/11/24/rafa-chairmen-dont-understand-transfers/
      redkop63
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #37: Nov 24, 2007 05:58:17 pm
      I would say both sides have faulted. The owners should keep their mouth shut and what was told to the press about Rafa should be kept private, this is really embarrassing. You don't wash your dirty linen in public and allow the press to sensationalize it and upsets the manager, this is not the way how the Yankees should manage things. They better learn this bitter lesson and learn it fast, this is Football and not American football or wrestling where the game is often sensationalized for greater audience and profit.

      Rafa should also go slow on his purchases of players, it appears that he has gone on a shopping spree where any so called potential players that becomes  available becomes his target. He must know what style he wants to play and buys players that fit into his style and system, otherwise, he would continue to buy and buy and buy which will eventually break our bank.

      In summary i don't believe the management did spend a nett 50 mil pds on players but merely 25-30 milllion pds, i guess so, after considering the players that were sold. So, with that kind of money spent, the management should know too well that we should spend another 20 to 25 million pd  before we can call ourselves serious title contenders.
      donrafael
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #38: Nov 24, 2007 06:19:42 pm
      Yesterday's press conference was sooo funny...

      Rafa repeated "I am here to train and coach the players" 25 (TWENTY FIVE) times during the press conference....

      Making a point?

      What a guy... love him to bits.
      Barney From Oz
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #39: Nov 25, 2007 10:41:22 am
      Firstly, personally it sickens me to see grown men have a pathetic arguement in the public domain over something that can be sorted out behind closed doors. To me I find these sort of antics from both sides extremely embarrassing to our club.

      If I were in Rafa's shoes, I'd take a long hard look at his self imposed rotation policy and ask myself if this policy is really working for Liverpool's chances in the Premier League. He made 2 classy signings in Torres and Babel, the rest I think were very ordinary. Personally I'd like to see Rafa play our strongest team in the Premier League and Champions League and play whoever in the Carling and FA Cup. I found that when players like Torres, Kuyt, Babel and Gerrard are on the pitch at the same time, we have a Liverpool team that is impossible to stop. The team performs so much better when those four players are on the pitch at the same time.

      With regards to Hicks and Gillett, I'd like to see them keep their word and give Rafa the squad he wants. They really should steer clear from Rafa and let him build the team, instead, they should concentrate all their efforts into getting the new stadium under way. I think the new stadium is far more important than any publis spat with the team manager.
      Bootle Buck
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #40: Nov 25, 2007 11:27:33 am
      Admittedly I wish it hadn't come to this and I think both parties haven't handled this at all well. But the one thing that gets on my tits is the one question...

      I'd like to know where this "significant investment" in the squad has come from ????

      OK we spent in the summer but we sold as well. Our net spending was only 20 odd million, the same as Everton and even Fulham to name just a couple.

      Given the fact all clubs got around 50 million TV money plus we got just under 20 million for reaching the Champions lague final.

      Hicks & Gillett ...you have been spending OUR money, money that was acquired by this club anyway. You have not spent a penny yet. So before you try and get the fans to side with you over Rafa get your facts straight. Remember Everton & Fulham aren't superpowers of "Soccer" and we have matched them in the market with our net spending.

      So take that away to chew on for a bit and come back to us with a more sensible statement. We may not be businessmen and we may not have acquired billion dollar fortunes..... but we're not F***ing stupid neither.
      LondonRed
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #41: Nov 25, 2007 03:09:20 pm
      'Hey Hicks...Quit bull shi**ing us and buy some players with YOUR money'
      donrafael
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #42: Nov 25, 2007 03:17:03 pm
      Rick Parry - do your job - clear the air VERY PUBLICLY - and stop sh*t stirring in the background...

      Unless you want Rafa to walk - of course... do you?

      G&H are learning the game, it's your job to translate Rafa's demands into Enterprise-Franchise-Speak... DO IT!
      koolkidda
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #43: Nov 25, 2007 03:52:27 pm
      'Hey Hicks...Quit bull shi**ing us and buy some players with YOUR money'

      Excellent point.  Our summer transfer spending got to just over £17 million this summer
      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,2888.0.html

      In fact the most commented on article ever on Anfield Online was the one in which JD dared to criticise the two Yanks and took a substantial amount of stick off a lot of people who must now be wondering...
      http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/lfc-news/2007/07/07/are-the-anfield-chairmen-pulling-a-fast-one/
      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,3306.0.html


      « Last Edit: Nov 25, 2007 03:55:59 pm by koolkidda »
      GERNS
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #44: Nov 26, 2007 01:23:00 am
      Gillet and Hicks are obviously waiting to see if we qualify for the C.L Knock out stages before they comit any more big spends on players. Rafa has shot himself in the foot with his rotation policy. If he had fielded his strongest side in all the C.L. games so far, we would have qualified by now and the money would probably have been granted. If they spend a further 20 mill on players come Jan, at least they will be sure to recoup at least 10mill if we make the K.O. stages. Its of Rfa's making. If he walks now he will go down in my estimation, and Maureen ? he won't do anything for us without a further 200 mill. so that counts him out.
      Stop the snipeing and get on with the business of winning games.
      redkop63
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      Re: Tom Hicks: Quit talking and coach the players
      Reply #45: Nov 26, 2007 01:57:09 pm
      Short and sweet  ......  G&H "Quit talking and support your Manager", otherwise pack your bags and head towards the direction where you came from. End of.

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