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      Our offside trap

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      Brian78
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      Our offside trap
      Feb 14, 2022 07:29:53 pm
      Our offside trap, the high line. Interested to get views on it.

      Is it a thing of beauty and perfection made to look suspect by these stupid late flags going up.

      Or is it something that we will be caught out on, possibily when it matters most?

      Going back to its outset, I hated it thought it was crazy. But for me now its a tactic we have mastered, mastered to the degree that when we are caught out by an onside player Ali us usually there to sweep up.

      But would be interested to see others opinions
      rossyred
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #1: Feb 14, 2022 07:35:24 pm
      Mmm . When it works its great but I suppose fine margins . If it works by inches you could say its a good line or the oppo will see it that the attacker has timed his run wrong and we are playing with fire. I think on a whole it has been successful can't remember to many times we have pushed out and then played on but I worry from free kicks at times
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #2: Feb 14, 2022 07:42:26 pm
      Our offside trap, the high line. Interested to get views on it.

      Is it a thing of beauty and perfection made to look suspect by these stupid late flags going up.

      Or is it something that we will be caught out on, possibily when it matters most?

      Going back to its outset, I hated it thought it was crazy. But for me now its a tactic we have mastered, mastered to the degree that when we are caught out by an onside player Ali us usually there to sweep up.

      But would be interested to see others opinions

      I think it's outstanding. It's always struck me the amount of times an opposition side would get caught in many of our matches. I think it was Adama Traore in the match against Wolves earlier on in the season who was simply incapable of staying onside throughout the match. (of course, we won 1-0 victory thanks to Divock's late heroics!) It kind of made him look like an idiot at the end of it all.

      Of course, we get caught out from time to time (as ajy team would) but it's not a common occurrence. The amount of chances and goals we've denied by deploying it must be eye watering.

      An integral part of how we play.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #3: Feb 14, 2022 08:03:59 pm
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #4: Feb 14, 2022 08:25:43 pm
      Our offside trap, the high line. Interested to get views on it.

      Is it a thing of beauty and perfection made to look suspect by these stupid late flags going up.

      Or is it something that we will be caught out on, possibily when it matters most?

      Going back to its outset, I hated it thought it was crazy. But for me now its a tactic we have mastered, mastered to the degree that when we are caught out by an onside player Ali us usually there to sweep up.

      But would be interested to see others opinions

      It’s very thin margins and you need to have some in the back line to help recover - also need to have a very confident GK who is happy to be high as well and then be good with his feet

      VVD is the key to it with both his Pace and organisational skills 
      chats
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #5: Feb 14, 2022 08:30:31 pm
      If you don't play a high line, you can't press like we do. End of.

      The trade off of being caught out the odd time is worth it for the benefit the press brings.
      Brian78
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #6: Feb 14, 2022 08:33:11 pm
      Brian78
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #7: Feb 14, 2022 08:37:28 pm

      VVD is the key to it with both his Pace and organisational skills 

      Spot on
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #8: Feb 14, 2022 08:40:23 pm

      THAT IS THE STAT!

      Phenomenal - I never knew we were so clear. I would have assumed City were right up there as well. I wonder why they don't deploy it more. It's not like Pep is too stupid to teach it to his players either!
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #9: Feb 14, 2022 09:25:28 pm
      THAT IS THE STAT!

      Phenomenal - I never knew we were so clear. I would have assumed City were right up there as well. I wonder why they don't deploy it more. It's not like Pep is too stupid to teach it to his players either!

      I don’t think Pep has the facilities mate…😂

      Joking aside I do t think he trust his back 4 as much as Klopp does..
      David Wright
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #10: Feb 14, 2022 09:33:39 pm
      The figures for the offside trap look very impressive long may it continue, showing our back four have to be well organised, for the high line to be such a success.
      Brian78
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #11: Feb 14, 2022 09:42:03 pm
      The figures for the offside trap look very impressive long may it continue, showing our back four have to be well organised, for the high line to be such a success.

      I think one of our players got asked recently was the offside plan off the cuff or worked on in training, player just laughed at the interviewer
      PTU
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #12: Feb 14, 2022 10:26:53 pm

      Wow, I knew we were good at it, but that's a massive gap with the other teams.

      I guess the only downside is when our opponents do manage to beat our offside trap, they often end up 1v1 against Ali (that is unless VVD goes into 'turbo mode' to catch up  ;D). High risk, but also high reward.
      FL Red
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #13: Feb 14, 2022 11:02:35 pm
      It’s a thing of beauty and we are so good it’s to the point where I just assume the opposition is never onside. 😂

      I do hate that the flags are going up later and later but at the end of the day, when VVD is healthy and Alli is in goal, we r can deploy it like no one else. And as others said, so key to our high press and ball control.
      Borg
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #14: Feb 15, 2022 03:13:10 am
      Three points:
      1) Last season, bottom dwellers were steamrolling the back 4 with ease to start the season when the offsides trap wasn't catching anyone
      2) The team wouldn't need such an aggressive high line if their midfielders were capable of assisting goals instead of relying on backs TAA and Robbo
      3) It helps to have an elite Goalie to save the backline's ass 2-3 times a game when the "trap" fails. Allison certainly earns his wages
      clint_call01
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #15: Feb 15, 2022 08:06:33 am
      I honestly think it is a form of art. We will be caught for sure but on the long term, we will receive great benefit.

      If all defenders are on board, I believe it is brilliant.
      brezipool
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #16: Feb 15, 2022 11:00:20 am
      Our offside trap, the high line. Interested to get views on it.

      Is it a thing of beauty and perfection made to look suspect by these stupid late flags going up.

      Or is it something that we will be caught out on, possibily when it matters most?

      Going back to its outset, I hated it thought it was crazy. But for me now its a tactic we have mastered, mastered to the degree that when we are caught out by an onside player Ali us usually there to sweep up.

      But would be interested to see others opinions

      Its brilliant.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #17: Feb 15, 2022 03:14:43 pm
      If you don't play a high line, you can't press like we do. End of.

      The trade off of being caught out the odd time is worth it for the benefit the press brings.

      This is the way we play. It keeps our opposition chasing balls back in their own half. Their operating space is effectively halved and if they’re not good at one touch passing, they will fumble due to no time on the ball.

      But that also demands a disciplined back line. All the other side needs are runners like Mo and Mane and one long ball behind our back four gives these type of strikers luxury of space they love.

      Unable to find the perfect example but Son and Pulisic goals we conceded this season were somewhat like runners latching on the end of a good pass.
      billythered
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #18: Feb 15, 2022 03:15:52 pm
      Synchronisation, communication & timing is what it’s all about, and we are craftsmen at our own art, you do get the occasional brain fart and occasionally we get stung, However, the trade off is the high line we use immediately puts the opposition on the back foot by squeezing the space between their 18 yard box and the half way line,

      If we have the ball we can exploit their defences by attacking their defence with through balls or using Trent and Robbo to get in behind, add the tricks and flips of Bobby, the guile and artistry of Thiago, Harvey etc and the pace of Messers Salah, Mane, Jota, & Diaz we have a very very formidable team, and one I imagine will have defences up and down the land and across Europe muttering ‘ how the F**k are we gonna deal with that’?


      Without the ball it’s simple, we hunt in packs until we win the ball back, and for the most part start the cycle all over again, frustrates the sh*t out of me though when we F**k about at the back, I know that’s where it all begins but we have been caught out so many times by dawdling that sometimes it’s best just to hoof the f***in thing and re-group,

      But that stat where we are at 90 and the next best at 49 is Wow, mind blowing, just goes to show though that our back line is some at Carlsberg would say ‘Probably’ be interesting to see the stats of when our entire back line was decimated last season by injury and compare with when we are fully fit.



      Makes you beam with pride knowing something like that, to say your almost twice as good as the next fella !!





                                                                                     Y  N  W  A
      srslfc
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #19: Feb 15, 2022 04:55:28 pm
      Our offside trap, the high line. Interested to get views on it.

      Is it a thing of beauty and perfection made to look suspect by these stupid late flags going up.

      Or is it something that we will be caught out on, possibily when it matters most?

      Going back to its outset, I hated it thought it was crazy. But for me now its a tactic we have mastered, mastered to the degree that when we are caught out by an onside player Ali us usually there to sweep up.

      But would be interested to see others opinions

      For me it's a thing of beauty.

      I actually think we have went out if our way to work on it even more since the new regulations came in
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #20: Feb 15, 2022 06:52:23 pm
      Not keen on it personally, some games we just get it completely wrong time and time again and there's never really a game where it doesn't get beaten a couple of times and need Alisson to bail us out and it has led to conceding some needless goals.

      Think it's like with any tactic, use it for the games it's most suited for or if we are having a game where the defence just can't get it right then just drop it back a yard.

      It looks good when it's working but the thing that annoys me is when we do keep persisiting with it even though we clearly need to just drop it back a yard in the same way that the front 3 switch around at times if one of them isn't having any joy against a certain defender.
      tezmac
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #21: Feb 15, 2022 07:24:13 pm
      Sometimes it frustrates me but with VAR the only part that working I think we play it very well after all we lie in Fourth in goals coincided with only City, Wolves and Chelsea coinciding less goals, also think it compresses the game which gives us more possession
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #22: Feb 15, 2022 08:07:49 pm
      I always laugh when, in match highlights, they show opposition "chances" that end with the flag going.up.

      By definition those are NOT chances.
      srslfc
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #23: Feb 15, 2022 08:12:48 pm
      I always laugh when, in match highlights, they show opposition "chances" that end with the flag going.up.

      By definition those are NOT chances.

      It's even worse when it's used to highlight the highline and offside trap isn't working.

      As someone else said above the highline we play is also linked into how we attack and win the ball back in the press.

      You cannot have one without the other and the stats back up what I've always thought, in that we catch teams offside fat more than we actually concede from the highline.
      GERNS
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #24: Feb 15, 2022 09:04:18 pm
      It's even worse when it's used to highlight the highline and offside trap isn't working.

      As someone else said above the highline we play is also linked into how we attack and win the ball back in the press.

      You cannot have one without the other and the stats back up what I've always thought, in that we catch teams offside fat more than we actually concede from the highline.


      But on the few occasions we haven’t applied the press very successfully, the high line has been vulnerable to the counter attacks in numbers of opposition breaking from midfield.
      That’s when I get the jitters.
      The high line is great if we press hard and fast.


      Tayls
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #25: Feb 15, 2022 09:31:43 pm
      The Athletic article which Shabs posted the offside stat from had a few other interesting points.

      As others have alluded to it's all about risk/reward, and the high line allows us to compact the pitch for the other team and press more efficiently further forward. We pressure the opposition in the final third more often than any other PL team (43 per game on average, next best is Brighton on 40.1), and we are also better at it than anyone, with the highest "press success" %

      A good example of how it can go wrong came in the Palace game, after which we had the genius of Jenas and Richards on MOTD saying they'd like us to drop 5 yards deeper etc etc. It's clear that VVD does make an error in stepping up to play offside, but it's what he's been drilled to do and the real problem was that the forwards and midfield allowed Schlupp to run 15-20 yards unchallenged and play a pass.

      To me it's an integral part of how we play and we're really good at it. When it doesn't work it looks bad but the risk/reward is worth it.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #26: Feb 15, 2022 10:06:55 pm
      I always laugh when, in match highlights, they show opposition "chances" that end with the flag going.up.

      By definition those are NOT chances.

      Correct, but just one of those offsides can result in momentum swinging to the opposition. It’s no secret that teams know that in order to get goals against us in open play, they will target that high line and if they feel they are close to beating it then they can grow in confidence, especially with these pathetic late flags because it can often result in us starting to panic a bit when chasing back.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #27: Feb 15, 2022 10:46:45 pm
      I just don't know why we can't revert to a different game plan, once we have taken the lead. Drop back, go 5 at the back.

      Scares the sh*t out of me 90% of the time but he thought of having VVD and Ali back there, does alleviate some of those concerns.
      glennusmc
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #28: Feb 15, 2022 11:26:06 pm
      As previously stated, our attackers need to press to help the whole tactic work effectively.
      alex1995
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #29: Feb 16, 2022 12:26:30 pm
      I just don't know why we can't revert to a different game plan, once we have taken the lead. Drop back, go 5 at the back.

      Scares the sh*t out of me 90% of the time but he thought of having VVD and Ali back there, does alleviate some of those concerns.

      Sometimes we do, but it's clear Klopp does not like plans B. He likes to perfect his plan A, that's it.

      It's stressful, but when we concede, it's mostly because someone exposed TAA and put in a good cross or because a player does an odd dribble to pierce the defence or a fantastic pass. However, Alison is excellent in what he does, his real weakness is his passing. 

      It works, it's simply very stressful for us.

      Although I sometimes think, it's simply too high. And we're endangering ourselves uselessly.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #30: Feb 16, 2022 01:19:22 pm
      Sometimes we do, but it's clear Klopp does not like plans B. He likes to perfect his plan A, that's it.

      It's stressful, but when we concede, it's mostly because someone exposed TAA and put in a good cross or because a player does an odd dribble to pierce the defence or a fantastic pass. However, Alison is excellent in what he does, his real weakness is his passing. 

      It works, it's simply very stressful for us.

      Although I sometimes think, it's simply too high. And we're endangering ourselves uselessly.

      Went back and watched the league goals conceded since the beginning of November, apart from a defensive header that got too quickly turned over by Chelsea, it's hard to put that much blame on TAA. Of the eleven we conceded, three cracking defence splitting passes, two worldies and an Alisson error with the other five asking questions of our centre backs, not our full backs.

      As for the high line, it suits our players. I hope this doesn't turn into one of those man marking, zonal debates. We here the players to play this system, it is highly successful though I've noticed it being derided in our last few games by some shoddy co-commentators.
      FL Red
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #31: Feb 16, 2022 02:00:20 pm
      Went back and watched the league goals conceded since the beginning of November, apart from a defensive header that got too quickly turned over by Chelsea, it's hard to put that much blame on TAA. Of the eleven we conceded, three cracking defence splitting passes, two worldies and an Alisson error with the other five asking questions of our centre backs, not our full backs.

      As for the high line, it suits our players. I hope this doesn't turn into one of those man marking, zonal debates. We here the players to play this system, it is highly successful though I've noticed it being derided in our last few games by some shoddy co-commentators.

      I'm always reminded of the reason that commentators are commentating and not coaching/managing ;D
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #32: Feb 16, 2022 06:19:01 pm


      As for the high line, it suits our players. I hope this doesn't turn into one of those man marking, zonal debates. We here the players to play this system, it is highly successful though I've noticed it being derided in our last few games by some shoddy co-commentators.

      It’s been getting spoken about since the 4-3 win over Norwich on the opening day of our title winning season. That was when we seemed to start playing an extra couple of yards higher.

      Admittedly, although we managed to get top 4 last season, if ever there was a time to do away with that line and drop back a few yards it was last season when we had Kabak and Phillips/Williams paired at CB because they’re all about as quick as someone running through mud whilst pulling a tyre and it did cause us a world of problems. But seeing as we still persisted with it under those circumstances, think it’s clear that we won’t be changing it anytime soon.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #33: Feb 18, 2022 08:48:35 am
      Those stats are incredible! It seems to be working better than ever this season. Now and then we come up against a team that can undo (obviously the Villa game was the one where it really didn’t work) it. But, it really is working beautifully this season and VAR actually helps us massively because everything goes to the replay and we win the close decisions that might previously have seen the flag stay down.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #34: Feb 19, 2022 02:51:24 pm
      Quote from 7-King Kenny-7
      Correct, but just one of those offsides can result in momentum swinging to the opposition. It’s no secret that teams know that in order to get goals against us in open play, they will target that high line and if they feel they are close to beating it then they can grow in confidence, especially with these pathetic late flags because it can often result in us starting to panic a bit when chasing back.

      You play to the whistle, not the flag. Even if the flag goes up, that doesn't automatically mean the game is stopped. The flag has to go up late because most offside calls are tight, and the linesman can't judge them all correct all the time.

      What annoys me is why the whistle goes for the offside flag, when the defending team have already won the ball back and are on the counter attack. In that case, I don't understand why the play has to be stopped.

      Quote
      It’s been getting spoken about since the 4-3 win over Norwich on the opening day of our title winning season. That was when we seemed to start playing an extra couple of yards higher.

      Admittedly, although we managed to get top 4 last season, if ever there was a time to do away with that line and drop back a few yards it was last season when we had Kabak and Phillips/Williams paired at CB because they’re all about as quick as someone running through mud whilst pulling a tyre and it did cause us a world of problems. But seeing as we still persisted with it under those circumstances, think it’s clear that we won’t be changing it anytime soon.

      Yes we played a high line that night, but we won 4-1.

      We dropped deeper last season because of the defensive injury crisis. That meant we were less dangerous upfront. Now the crisis is over, we can have a higher line at the back. It doesn't work all the time, but the stats  show it works more often than it doesn't.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #35: Feb 20, 2022 01:52:07 pm
      That offside trap is reaching George Graham levels.

      Back line the least of our worries. Something else Klopp deserves praise for.
      srslfc
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #36: Mar 02, 2022 09:05:13 pm
      Lee Dixon the latest to bang on about how high we play and should be 10 yards further back.

      Pundits are either thick or don't do any research.

      Or both.
      « Last Edit: Mar 02, 2022 10:18:43 pm by srslfc »
      Brian78
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #37: Mar 02, 2022 10:14:55 pm
      Flag went up nice and quick tonight
      clint_call01
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #38: Mar 02, 2022 10:39:37 pm
      It brought us the League Cup trophy. We play it so well.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #39: Mar 04, 2022 01:04:38 am
      It brought us the League Cup trophy. We play it so well.

      Quality post.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #40: Mar 04, 2022 12:13:07 pm
      Is going to give us all a Fukn heart attack.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Our offside trap
      Reply #41: Mar 04, 2022 12:22:46 pm
      Is going to give us all a Fukn heart attack.

      The linesman does that already, that stupid law needs binning off pronto..

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