Is English officiating corrupt?

Nonsense: There isn't even an agreed upon definition of a "Mistake"........ Would you say that Odegaard's handball at Anfield was deliberate? and therefore that decision was a mistake....of course you would...but the Arsenal fans don't think it was a mistake...and the officials didn't think it was a mistake.(and in truth only the player himself knows if it was deliberate)
So how is it possible to generate a league of mistakes?....You can't.

Sure you can. That's literally the point of VAR, to correct mistakes. Whether deliberate or not, it was a handball. And Arsenal fans not believing it's a mistake doesn't make it so. The Doku kung fu kick to Mac's chest was also a mistake. But do you think City fans believe it was? Most if not all of them think it wasn't wrong to allow it. Upon review it's blatantly obvious that it was a missed call.

Nonsense: There isn't even an agreed upon definition of a "Mistake"........ Would you say that Odegaard's handball at Anfield was deliberate? and therefore that decision was a mistake....of course you would...but the Arsenal fans don't think it was a mistake...and the officials didn't think it was a mistake.(and in truth only the player himself knows if it was deliberate)
So how is it possible to generate a league of mistakes?....You can't.

I'm pretty sure the article said this is the ones that have been admitted by the ref to have been a mistake... there is a LOT of calls not even on there.

Sure you can. That's literally the point of VAR, to correct mistakes. Whether deliberate or not, it was a handball. And Arsenal fans not believing it's a mistake doesn't make it so. The Doku kung fu kick to Mac's chest was also a mistake. But do you think City fans believe it was? Most if not all of them think it wasn't wrong to allow it. Upon review it's blatantly obvious that it was a missed call.

The (main) reason VAR operators find it so difficult to correct an error is because the parameters of what constitutes an offence are opaque and open to interpretation ( ignoring offside, which is technology dependant). Fan's on the other hand believe whatever benefits their side(regardless of the  evidence).
My point is there isn't (and can't be) an agreed on definition of a mistake, outside of the blatantly obvious, and blatantly obvious mistakes will by and large be quickly identified and remedied.

I'm pretty sure the article said this is the ones that have been admitted by the ref to have been a mistake... there is a LOT of calls not even on there.

If you admit there are a"LOT" of calls not included, then the table is even less accurate....It's total folly.

The (main) reason VAR operators find it so difficult to correct an error is because the parameters of what constitutes an offence are opaque and open to interpretation ( ignoring offside, which is technology dependant). Fan's on the other hand believe whatever benefits their side(regardless of the  evidence).
My point is there isn't (and can't be) an agreed on definition of a mistake, outside of the blatantly obvious, and blatantly obvious mistakes will by and large be quickly identified and remedied.

I think you make a fair point.

There's lots of decisions in football that cannot be 100% agreed on and as you say more often than not you are blinkered by if it's your team or not.

That's why I'd be in favour of simplifying some of the rules of possible to take away an element of doubt. Like the clear man ahead for offside that has been mentioned.

Handball needs to be made more simple as well.

Then maybe VAR has a chance

My second post here. My thoughts from my 1st post hasn't changed.
Hang on to your knickers for this.

https://x.com/KoptasticNeil/status/1793759475221844460?t=FjQj9V94PZBVzZ6tQLGnag&s=19

My second post here. My thoughts from my 1st post hasn't changed.
Hang on to your knickers for this.

https://x.com/KoptasticNeil/status/1793759475221844460?t=FjQj9V94PZBVzZ6tQLGnag&s=19

Some serious allegations. Will anybody go direct to the PGMOL and make a direct accusation of corruption. I don't know if Oliver was influenced in any way. My original reaction to the "Doku" challenge was that it was a 'clear and obvious' error and should've been corrected by VAR. But you simply can't trust VAR.

To rule out any VAR cock up, dare I say, that had they adopted the system with the Captain's having 2/3 challenges, the right decision would've been made.

Some serious allegations. Will anybody go direct to the PGMOL and make a direct accusation of corruption. I don't know if Oliver was influenced in any way. My original reaction to the "Doku" challenge was that it was a 'clear and obvious' error and should've been corrected by VAR. But you simply can't trust VAR.

To rule out any VAR cock up, dare I say, that had they adopted the system with the Captain's having 2/3 challenges, the right decision would've been made.

Good Morning, Your Captains challenge idea has a certain amount of merit inasmuch as it reduces the randomness of VAR to review an incident...The Captain having 2/3 challenges, (not unlike test cricket)  means the incident HAS to be looked at again.
The problem remains that just because the incident is checked, it doesn't mean it will be changed/reversed. You are of the opinion that had the referee been sent to the monitor he would have awarded a penalty, yet there is no guarantee of that. Human beings find it hard to admit fault and change their minds, we process it as a weakness....So there is quite a mountain to overcome to admit an error.

The (main) reason VAR operators find it so difficult to correct an error is because the parameters of what constitutes an offence are opaque and open to interpretation ( ignoring offside, which is technology dependant). Fan's on the other hand believe whatever benefits their side(regardless of the  evidence).
My point is there isn't (and can't be) an agreed on definition of a mistake, outside of the blatantly obvious, and blatantly obvious mistakes will by and large be quickly identified and remedied.

Most sane people (that aren’t Liverpool, City or Arsenal supporters) agree that the Odegaard handball and Doku kick were both clear, obvious errors. So take bias out of it and you still have the consensus that you seem to imply is lacking.

My second post here. My thoughts from my 1st post hasn't changed.
Hang on to your knickers for this.

https://x.com/KoptasticNeil/status/1793759475221844460?t=FjQj9V94PZBVzZ6tQLGnag&s=19

Said at the time it is a clear conflict of interest. That's the minimum, and it shouldn't be permitted for refs to go off and work for other leagues when those running those leagues have a stake in an English club.

Be interested to see where he got the £20k fee for Oliver's services. If true, it just highlights how dodgy thinks look when you allow these conflicts of interest.

Most sane people (that aren’t Liverpool, City or Arsenal supporters) agree that the Odegaard handball and Doku kick were both clear, obvious errors. So take bias out of it and you still have the consensus that you seem to imply is lacking.

With the greatest of respect: Regardless of where on this Earth you are from there is no qualified method for people to agree on what constitutes an error; the incident will always be open to interpretation....not just bias. Even in the cases you mention there will be some people who judge it one way and other's who judge it completely the opposite.

With the greatest of respect: Regardless of where on this Earth you are from there is no qualified method for people to agree on what constitutes an error; the incident will always be open to interpretation....not just bias. Even in the cases you mention there will be some people who judge it one way and other's who judge it completely the opposite.

Exactly. The honest people on one side, and the corrupt cheats on the other. Dress it up as much as you like, the outcome is the same.

With the greatest of respect: Regardless of where on this Earth you are from there is no qualified method for people to agree on what constitutes an error; the incident will always be open to interpretation....not just bias. Even in the cases you mention there will be some people who judge it one way and other's who judge it completely the opposite.

Just because there are people that lack the intelligence to interpret what they are seeing doesn’t mean it’s not possible for sensible people to agree on something being a mistake.  I’m not sure why you are so hell bent on defending a flawed system in this instance 😂

Just because there are people that lack the intelligence to interpret what they are seeing doesn’t mean it’s not possible for sensible people to agree on something being a mistake.  I’m not sure why you are so hell bent on defending a flawed system in this instance 😂

We all perceive the world differently, it has nothing to do with intelligence. I'm really not defending anything, I'm just saying something deemed a mistake is just a human judgement ...sometimes what is being contested is obvious, and other times they are hard to interpret....and when they are hard...or even very hard they are likely to split opinion....In other words there isn't always universal agreement as to what is a mistake....except when it's fairly obvious.
I've run out of caring to be honest....Have a good weekend!

Good Morning, Your Captains challenge idea has a certain amount of merit inasmuch as it reduces the randomness of VAR to review an incident...The Captain having 2/3 challenges, (not unlike test cricket)  means the incident HAS to be looked at again.
The problem remains that just because the incident is checked, it doesn't mean it will be changed/reversed. You are of the opinion that had the referee been sent to the monitor he would have awarded a penalty, yet there is no guarantee of that. Human beings find it hard to admit fault and change their minds, we process it as a weakness....So there is quite a mountain to overcome to admit an error.

Yes of course the ref being asked to review it by the captain's doesn't guarantee the original decision will be changed. But it gives the teams a say in the decision making process. Confusion surrounds the ' clear & obvious' error issue. More democratic, also takes away the constant complaints and accusations. Only Pens and red cards and the Ref does have the power to say 'no I'm not reviewing it'..mostly to rule out time wasting.

And..and one of the worst decisions was yer man Oliver again. When he did bugger all over the Pickford 'assault' on VVD. Oct '21. Claims he was checking the offside. Made a bit of an apology.

Bit of a footnote re season 20/21 was the amazing fact that we lost 6 homes games on the run. Starting with Burnley 0-1...Jan '21.....ending with 6th on the trot.. V Fulham...0-1...7th March '21.

I blame twisted Oliver.

PGMOL cant help themselves can they. Klopps last game and once again manchester officials ..... kavanagh has cost us a title and done damage over the years.

Coote ... no fcuking comment. Corrupt.

The club needs to grow a set and vote against the avenue to corruption that is var and also make it clear we dont want corrupt manchester officials like taylor tierney and kavanagh overseeing 90% of our season next time either in the middle or on var because those 3 along with coote seem to follow us round.

Sick of the club lying there and taking it up the ars& from pgmol, and the premier league. Call them out.

Kavanagh on VAR disallows a Villa goal against us one week, then takes Coote's advice on VAR to send off a Wolves opponent against us the following week. The silence from you is deafening. Unfortunately the false allegations of "corruption" are not.

Sure you can. That's literally the point of VAR, to correct mistakes.

5 years on, you still don't understand what the point of VAR is. These are the kind of people that want VAR scrapped because they can't/don't/won't understand what it's there for. The world has to do the right thing for football, not listen to such nonsense.

As for the table posted where we apparantly come bottom of the league, they obviously forgot/ignored the 2 VAR decisions in the last 2 matches, or the 2 decisions in the local derbies that went our way. That's 4 of the decisions in our favour this season alone.

 

I've literally just read a fart.....