Do we need a sports psychologist right now?

As mentioned in other threads, I am a firm believer in psychologists and the aid they can bring to elite sportsmen, if properly trainned at this highest level of professional football and it's pressures ...from business, media and us the fans alike.

I feel Rafa should think about this role at the club - on a formal basic - I understand Pako (to a point, not formally, and no way a professional/qualitified psychologist) had lots of one to ones with some of our star players (Xabi and StevieG amongst them).

I now feel this part of our preparation of our playing staff is (very probably) being ignored and we are need of help - nothing to be embarrassed about - at all... not with the volume of pressure WE (e.g. library silences at Anfield), the media and the owners (take-over distractions/tensions) have placed on the current talented playing staff (...and probably coaches too!!).

The only down side to contracting help of this nature is that the red-top tabloids would have a IGNORANCE field day (particularly in the current LFC/Rafa-attack regime...).

Lets me run through a very personal view (be it ignorant) of the squad at present and have an (I hope) educated guess at those who could be affected:

Reina - nope - looks happy, decent form and is a crutch to Torres in the settling in process.

Finnan - nope - although probably feeling his years now, could be coached by someone like Sammi to get the best out of himself as he gets older.

JAR - YES - wants to stay so badly, has had off-the-field bankrupcy and legal issues, great player with probably more in the talent-tank but his issues are probably above his shoulders...and now his boots.

Carra - nope - steady head - proved at Luton recently - leader/example of men? I think so.

Hyypia - nope - confident, mature man who must one day return to Melwood in a coaching capacity - total pro.

Arbeloa - maybe/YES - lost world-class form recently, even looked ordinary last couple of games - why?

Yossi - nope - "seems" level headed and confident.

Pennant - god YES - this chap maybe needs a therapist all to himself with his goings-on off the field and shows of petulant anger on it... could (should) become an England regular with his natural talent.

Xabi - YES - very close to Pako (friend, mentor and fellow Basque), not been the same player since Pako left - not an excuse - probably needs help to see him through transition... why not?

Momo - YES - always angry, always upset on the field - why?

Masch - nope - pretty consistent, and he should be the most distracted bloke in the squad right now...given his contract scenario. Just wants to play for LFC.

Gerrard - YES - looks down, not happy (head hanging body language) - off the field break-in can't of helped... or England Euro exit - to which he was Captain... he is NOT super-man, he is human and I think this type of aid would help him (close to Pako in his day, and not to Rafa - which shows now).

Babel - YES - young, talented but seems to be over-sensitive - IMHO needs strong man-management AND sports-psycological help - nothing wrong with that.

Torres - nope - unless the help would be in Spanish (very mature lad for his age, Captain of a massive club at the age of 19... and it tells).

Kuyt - YES - father died recently (his closest friend in football). Recently works his socks off to no effect - when he has done so well for Feyernord (and to a point LFC too) in the past - good players don't become bad players overnight.

Voro - YES - problems with national coach - called him lazy and fat - probably affected - came on a free, trying too hard or sometimes too little to prove himself worth the red shirt - off-the-field just had a baby (life changer) - to me looks like this kind of help could be very welcome.

Crouch - YES - continually dropped, continually rumoured in national media to leave - England exit too... another one who could be probably assisted.

Kewell - YES - has had more injuries (and resultant mental setbacks) than the old Evil Knievel - mentally strong and talented but no super-man, vunerable as the next man - wants to stay, contract expiring, pressure, pressure, pressure.

Lucas, Aurelio, Agger - don't think so - no played that much - depending on how Agger comes back after long injury, maybe...

I make that from 21 squad members - 11 that probably (given these are guesses made on a stereotypical basis) .. but look at the cases for it... how many are really whacky and off the mark? ...how many of those 11 are the under-performing contingent... and you start to see a pattern...

Now think of Man Utd and Arsenal and think how many of their players are under similiar pressures... I'm sure there are a few - but that many (I.e. half the squad???)

Your comments most welcome on this often taboo, misunderstood and often ridiculed subject.

Without doubt, in this industry, the best compliment to any psychological help, is winning... but on current form we look like we need a shake-up of some nature or a nice mega-goal-fiest (Luton?) to get rid of a few "ghosts".

Your comments, if thought through, most welcome (in favour or against) - but if you are going to take the mickey out of the topic/area for the sake of it - go on the the next topic please.

...and I haven't even mentioned Rafa and the (very public) pressure he must feel (or the lack of human skills himself that some have said he lacks) - but HE is the man in the eye of the storm (along with Parry may I add...for other reasons) - but Rafa the man that has the maturity to see this storm though... and hear that Lark singing in the sky at the end of it.

IRWT YNWA

Come on Eileen - Dexy's Midnight Runners

We could get Hoiddle as well.

No they dont need a sports psychologist. They need a kick in the arse and told that they are playing for LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB. They are blessed to put that shirt on and for 90 mins plus any added time they have to give every ounce of sweat and if need be blood for that shirt. The only ones who come close are Carra and masch with Torres and Reina doing there job well. What happens off the pitch shouldnt effect what they do on it

Come on Eileen - Dexy's Midnight Runners

We could get Hoiddle as well.

Ignorant tw*t. I'm not talking faith healers - a la Eileen - this made me laugh dude...

Now for a serious answer perhaps?

No they dont need a sports psychologist. They need a kick in the arse and told that they are playing for LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB. They are blessed to put that shirt on and for 90 mins plus any added time they have to give every ounce of sweat and if need be blood for that shirt. The only ones who come close are Carra and masch with Torres and Reina doing there job well. What happens off the pitch shouldnt effect what they do on it

But with our sensitive souls it seems to be the case...

Blimey a kick up the arse? Gerrard gets upset if you don't tell him how good he is all the time apparently...

No seriously, these blokes need something else - we are in their hands and having a go probably doesn't work with the likes of Gerrard, Babel, Pennant, Momo, Voro and company.... think about it - I think giving them a dressing down would work with only a few ...and be totally counter-productive in most of the other cases.

Still laughing at the Eileen post - cracker!

Ignorant tw*t. I'm not talking faith healers - a la Eileen - this made me laugh dude...

Now for a serious answer perhaps?

Only serious questions merit serious answers.

Alternatively see Brian78.

Only serious questions merit serious answers.

Alternatively see Brian78.

So I was right about the tw*t bit... at least the post/thread wasn't totally wasted.

Have you ever heard of sports psycologists? or even how the likes of Tiger Woods, Federrer, Alonso, England and Australian rugby teams, most NBA teams, most elite track-athletes... but not footballers on the whole (although I am sure a few do on the quiet)... use them, considering the pressure they are under on a daily basis?

So what exactly are you taking the piss out of Mr mature Oldred? ...when our own players are often splaterred on our tv screens and papers, even more than some of the world-stars I've mentioned above...

Nice to see the taboo, piss taking coming through though, as I thought it would... nice one fella.

Another crack at a decent answer maybe now sir? ..or too ashamed - come on - have a try at least?

Someone bring pako back

I believe in sports psychology alot but I also feel that the root cause of the problem needs to be addressed. I feel that whatever the personal problems of each individual the fact remains that we've been trying to launch a premiership title campaign under rather bizarre circumstances. From top to bottom the Club is beset by doubt, speculation and instability, not the best conditions to go on an unbeaten run during the second half of the season is it?

Someone bring pako back

Yep, bring Pako back.

You make a good point Don, and while a full sports psychologist may not be the answer, the one to one aspect that left with Pako may be what we need.

I full understand Brian's feelings that all the players should be over the moon to pull on the Red shirt and should fulfill their potential week in and week out, but sometimes this isn't possible. Some things do get in the way such as family issues, financial issues (although they are a rarity with Premiership footy players for some reason! : or even issues within themselves.

Anyone who has been depressed (and I've witnessed Bi-polar depression at first hand through a family member so I know exactly what I'm talking about) cannot function in a reasonable or what would be considered a socially normal manner. This can spill into their work, and their outputs can be altered drastically. Relating this to Liverpool, while I'm not suggesting that half the players are suffering with depression, (just the majority of the fans after some of our 'bore draws' ) maybe there is something up with a few of our squad members.

A bad mood can change everything, and while the pride of playing for Liverpool should be enough for anyone to get their sh*t together and start delivering, it's unfortunately not entirely possible all the time! 

On the whole, I feel we should have a figure that players can speak to over their troubles. Gerrard couldn't cope during his Mam and Dad's break up and only started performing at a normal level again after he'd got it out in the open. This wasn't dragged out by a psychologist, and it was spoken between himself, Phil Thompson and Houllier. With Rafa not being as much of a people person, with his more 'player are cogs in the machine' view on management, (which works fine by the way ) a more approachable figure may be something we're missing at the club.

Good idea Don. I feel it would be a great way to resolve some mental issues. But you forgot to mention someone who i believe needs it the most - Rafael Benitez. The guy needs some help, he has been copping it from the media and needs someone to help him relax and gain his confidence back in himself.

Donrafael, you make a good point about getting a sports pychologist to help the lads and I fully agree with you.
IMO the fundamental problem is lack of confidence,winning is the cure but the longer you go on not winning,the less confidence you have,hence harder to stop the rot.

They can tell how you're feeling from simple things like body language,facial expression or even how you smile.This is described as "emotional intelligence" with this expert help they could assist Rafa on how to deal with this,a good shooting at or an arm around the shoulder,choosing the wrong one could lead you into further turmoil.

Getting through something like this as a group would be amazing,you'd see the confidence level and mental strength soar,hence creating powerful bonds between them,giving them a calm and togetherness aura believing they can win no matter what.
-------------------------------------------------
Just a little aside this is why I think England will improve under Capello.In his first press conference he said" to be  successful coach you have to trust your players and need to know 3 things about your players (Do they have the ability needed?,What is their attitude like on the field? and what is their behaviour/habits like off the field)" the last two can be worked on with a sports psychologist or using his vast expierence/dealings with previous clubs.

They can tell how you're feeling from simple things like body language,facial expression or even how you smile.This is described as "emotional intelligence" with this expert help they could assist Rafa on how to deal with this,a good shooting at or an arm around the shoulder,choosing the wrong one could lead you into further turmoil.

Bit drastic don't you think mate!

Good post though, and I agree with you on the England thing. I can see them improving drastically!

We need to get a feeling of togetherness! It's exactly why Luton outclassed us at their place! They were all in the sh*t and no-one else was going to do anything for them!

While we're not failing financially, we've the papers and journos on our back every time we slip up. We're not doing that well in the league and we have a big big match in the last 16 of the Champions League! We need the squad to back each other up and fight for the cause!

Donrafael, you make a good point about getting a sports pychologist to help the lads and I fully agree with you.
IMO the fundamental problem is lack of confidence,winning is the cure but the longer you go on not winning,the less confidence you have,hence harder to stop the rot.

Hence why I think Rafa will play our very strongest XI v Luton tomorrow... irrelevant of the opposition to get those positive hormones flowing again!

Just a little aside this is why I think England will improve under Capello.In his first press conference he said" to be  successful coach you have to trust your players and need to know 3 things about your players (Do they have the ability needed?,What is their attitude like on the field? and what is their behaviour/habits like off the field)" the last two can be worked on with a sports psychologist or using his vast expierence/dealings with previous clubs.

Following on with your Capello aside... he will not improve England as he doesn't have the raw materials in volume to deal with, I.e. enough world class players... which btw he has had in abundance at club level where ever he has gone... he's no talent-producing miracle-worker he is a talent-provoking leader of world-class players/egos... BIG difference.

Now going back to the strains of our players...

If Parry has his wits about him as CEO he would have advised Rafa of this soft-skills void when he sanctioned Rafa to find two replacements for Pako last summer, which Rafa duly went and did... because Rafa, I don't think, recognises this short-fall (good cop/pal-Pako, bad cop/boss-Rafa) in his present back-room team of pros...

...never forget Stevie G, JAR, Xabi and Momo were all close to Pako... see the pattern emerging... I didn't want to make this a Pako thread... been there done that... but the need for mental coaching (even if it was subconcious and not qualified as such from Pako) seems to be sadly, very sadly missed... just when we need it most "through the storm".

I thought we already had a sports psycologist?? http://www.thewinningmind.com/

We need the manager to tell the players to pull their fingers out.

Every time I tell you that phychology is very important in sports achievements, but no one hear me.
I think you remember all phychological methods used by Shankly. The way he could find approach to every player and put them in winning mood before the game.
Now it's forgotten....Pity...
I have read many books about how  phychology is important and helps sportsmen....
Why do no one pay attention to that really?

I just think its all gone down since Paco left us. With him sitting at the right hand of Rafa, we were 1st in the Premiership! Yes FIRST!

Remember Paco was the father figure in the dressing room, Rafa just did the tactical work!
It's like losing a father, you'd feel lost and that what I'm guessing the lads in the dressing room are feeling like!

I just assumed we would have sports psychologist there already! This is a professional and demanding sport so I thought it obvious to have a shrink to get the best out of the players. I'm actually very dissapointed that we dont have one...

And with regards to pako, I think Rafa's statement about not missing the work of somebody who was considered one of the best in the world is bullshit......we at least need to replace him and take some of the pressure off rafa behind the scenes because heaven knows he's got enough on his plate now with the 3 stooges in charge.

fully agree with you there venom-c

I just assumed we would have sports psychologist there already! This is a professional and demanding sport so I thought it obvious to have a shrink to get the best out of the players. I'm actually very dissapointed that we dont have one...

And with regards to pako, I think Rafa's statement about not missing the work of somebody who was considered one of the best in the world is bullshit......we at least need to replace him and take some of the pressure off rafa behind the scenes because heaven knows he's got enough on his plate now with the 3 stooges in charge.

As many say, Pako was carrying out this role, in an unofficial manner before... how Rafa thought De Miguel or Vales could pick up those emotional links with the players - only he (and Parry) know.

I have a very bad feeling that Pako would return to Anfield should Maureen ever come here... you heard it here first.

I still haven't lost all hope that Pako (who still lives in England...) will one day re-unite his services with his once close, very close, friend and colleague Rafael.

A piece that appeared in the Daily Post in October regarding Pako’s departure

JAMIE CARRAGHER has dismissed suggestions the departure of Pako Ayesteran has contributed to Liverpool’s downturn in form – and believes anyone that does is “looking for excuses”.
Since Ayesteran left his post as assistant manager at the end of August following an irrevocable breakdown in his working relationship with Rafael Benitez, Liverpool have won just three of eight games and slipped to fourth in the Premier League.

Ayesteran’s exit was formally confirmed at the weekend, although the Spaniard will remain contracted at Anfield until the end of June next year to prevent him falling into the immediate clutches of any rival clubs.
But while Carragher believes Ayesteran was “outstanding” as Liverpool’s fitness coach, the centre-back has revealed the footballing side of training has remained unchanged since the departure.
And the 29-year-old has rubbished rumours Benitez’s methods have been adversely affected by the loss of his former trusted lieutenant.
“Gerard Houllier had the same thing thrown at him when Patrice Bergues left, and in that case I do think that had a big impact,” said Carragher.

“But the difference now is that Rafa Benitez is a coach, while Gerard Houllier was more of simply a manager and observed coaching rather than actually taking it.
“I got on great with Pako, he was superb at his job and he had a great relationship with the manager, but he was the fitness coach.
“Rafa is the coach. At the end of the day, we’ve lost a fitness coach, not a football coach, although it’s a fitness coach who was outstanding at his job.

“But it’s still the manager picking the team. Rafa is the football man and that hasn’t changed, and I’m sure the results since Pako has left is just a coincidence.
“I can understand why people might look at that. People are always looking for reasons why a team isn’t playing so well, but in the training sessions we are still doing the same things.
“If people do look at Pako leaving as the reason for our loss in form, I think they are looking for excuses really.”


Jamie has hit the nail on the head when he said “people are looking for excuses really.” Whenever we have a downturn in form every single aspect of the club is analysed, from whether the players feel loved enough to what the food is like at the training ground!
Frankly it is a lot more straightforward than that as some of the players and management should be asking themselves “am I giving a 100%?”, these people are proffesionals who are the best at what they do (except Voronin obviously!) and shouldn’t need molly coddling into giving their all, christ I think every fan to a man (or Woman ) would pay the club to have the honour of wearing that red shirt nevermind being given £50k a week for the privelige!

At the moment the club is in turmoil and far from blaming the players I believe the reason for our innocous form is down to the management, no not just Rafa because as if you read some of my other posts you will know I am a Rafa believer, but also because of the owners and their shambolic attempts at trying to run a “soccer franchise” from the other side of the Atlantic.
How on earth can we expect players to perform at the top of their game when we have such uncertainty at the club?.... Is the boss staying? Will we have any new signings? Will we have new owners? Because if no money is paid by February we will no longer be owned by Cagney and Lacey but The Royal Bank of Scotland will take up the reigns!

I have never in all my years following the reds had the embarrassment to see the club become a magnet for all the football rumours we have had chucked at us lately and until the ownership and management are ‘cemented’ into place so no one can be under any illusion who owns/manages our great club we will have a few more farces acted out in the media on a daily basis.
Sort that out and iam sure everything will begin to fall into place.


Oh by the way Xavi Valero our esteemed goalkeeping coach is a master in Sports Psychology apparently so if as it looks like they are getting help already then it doesn’t seem to be helping their game much, unless of course he only works with Pepe? And then I would say he is doing a wonderful job.

“Xavi Valero took over the post of Goalkeeping Coach after Jose Ochotorena moved back to Valencia in 2007.
Valero began his professional career as a goalkeeper with Castellon in 1992, before moving onto Mallorca, Logrones, Murcia, Cordoba and Recreativo de Huelva in Spain. He also spent a short time with Wrexham where he put into practice the English he had studied at the University of Castellon.

He holds a Master in Goalkeeper Coaching from the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) and a Master of Sports Psychology from Madrid Univeristy (UNED). Valero previously worked with Jose Ochotorena at Logrones.”

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/valero/

Top post Glenbuck - very clarifying even if JC doesn't mention the emotional bonds that Pako cemented with various players (inc Xabi and StevieG) during his time.

Wish JC would come out with a similarly "calming of the waters" / back up for Rafa article at such at important time for him as winning his 500th cap tonight... and you know what - I think he will.
 

Maybe that is what Carra thinks and i fully respect that but just look at how the players looked during and after games before he left and compare it to now it clearly has changed. Its not just pako having left but rather that combined with a number of other things.

Hopefully now that Carra has spoke about Pakos departure and the fact that the football training has changed little since he left that we can put this topic to bed. Rafa will turn this around. If pako was so instrumental why is he not a manager himself in his own right?

What does the mentality of the players have to do with the football training?

What does the mentality of the players have to do with the football training?

Not a lot, unless you make genuine friendships with players as you do it...

Not a lot, but peopl

Hopefully now that Carra has spoke about Pakos departure and the fact that the football training has changed little since he left that we can put this topic to bed. Rafa will turn this around. If pako was so instrumental why is he not a manager himself in his own right?

Maybe waiting for a call from Maureen?

Donrafael
So I was right about the tw*t bit... at least the post/thread wasn't totally wasted.

Have you ever heard of sports psycologists? or even how the likes of Tiger Woods, Federrer, Alonso, England and Australian rugby teams, most NBA teams, most elite track-athletes... but not footballers on the whole (although I am sure a few do on the quiet)... use them, considering the pressure they are under on a daily basis?

So what exactly are you taking the piss out of Mr mature Oldred? ...when our own players are often splaterred on our tv screens and papers, even more than some of the world-stars I've mentioned above...

Nice to see the taboo, piss taking coming through though, as I thought it would... nice one fella.

Another crack at a decent answer maybe now sir? ..or too ashamed - come on - have a try at least?

So I will respond.

Firstly don't call me a tw*t.  I haven't been abusive to you and am entitled to my opinion.  Take the piss by all means but leave the abuse to bitter and twisted people e.g. Evertonians.

Most of the world stars mentioned above operate in Sports which involve one to one encounters, not team sports.  In that case mental state is the difference between being a world champion and an also ran.

Not that some of the previous managers at Liverpool have not used a bit of 'psychology' in motivating the players.  As already mentioned Bill Shankly was an expert at this.  As for pressure I will revert to what Bill Shankly said when asked if he was under pressure.  When you have a wife and family and can't put food on the table, that's pressure.

If we do not already have a sports psychologist at the club, which would surprise me the amount of staff modern clubs have, then I don't think we should go down that road.  What we need is an assistant manager to take some of the workload off Rafa.  He/She could do the psychological bit.

I think it would be disappointing if there is not motivation enough in just pulling on a Liverpool shirt.  If we have reached that point it is a sad day for Liverpool.

So I will respond.

Firstly don't call me a tw*t.  I haven't been abusive to you and am entitled to my opinion.  Take the piss by all means but leave the abuse to bitter and twisted people e.g. Evertonians.

Most of the world stars mentioned above operate in Sports which involve one to one encounters, not team sports.  In that case mental state is the difference between being a world champion and an also ran.

Not that some of the previous managers at Liverpool have not used a bit of 'psychology' in motivating the players.  As already mentioned Bill Shankly was an expert at this.  As for pressure I will revert to what Bill Shankly said when asked if he was under pressure.  When you have a wife and family and can't put food on the table, that's pressure.

If we do not already have a sports psychologist at the club, which would surprise me the amount of staff modern clubs have, then I don't think we should go down that road.  What we need is an assistant manager to take some of the workload off Rafa.  He/She could do the psychological bit.

I think it would be disappointing if there is not motivation enough in just pulling on a Liverpool shirt.  If we have reached that point it is a sad day for Liverpool.

Oldred, apologies for the tw*t bit, it was out of order. Perdon.

I see Rafa is saying today, that team has mental issues at the moment - not technical... funny that.

...Don you are right about the mental difficulties facing the team at the minute but i do not agree with the personal issues that you suggest the players are suffering from. The mental issues which i think Rafa is talking about is the lack of confidence that the team and in particular the strikers are suffering from and which in turn is seriously affecting our performances and results. For me off the field events and personal problems dont come into the equation when playing football. Fair enough if something tragic like a family member has died the day before a game or something but usually when I play football at least , I dont think about what is happening in my life one bit ....im playing football for gods sake! therefore thats what im thinking about. Just think the last time you played footy down the astro or whatever ... your not thinking about anythingelse whilst playing are you ? ...and i dont see why because they are proffesionals it should be any different. If anything they should be more focused on the game and I hate it when players give excuses of off the field problems for thier poor form. It is just a lame excuse in my opinion. I didnt like Gerrards recent comments about the off field problems with the owner affecting the team ....it shouldnt. Fair enough he is entitled to express his opinion on the matter and I would back him to do so in order to speak out and back Rafa but to claim its affecting the team just dosent cut it with me.

I personally wouldnt agree with getting a sports physcologist ......i am personally of the opinion they need a kick up the arse ....they are playing for Liverpool.

The example you refer to - Gerrard - is not the type of player who responds to that (kicks up the arse, quite the contrary).

He is a "high maintenance" player - he is in fact well known for it... Houllier used to put his arm around him all the time, as did Pako... Rafa doesn't feel he has to. Net Net - we don't get the best out of the chap.

To be fair , Gerrard needs to sort it out if thats the case and get his head toegether. He is the captain of our club and should be the one leading by example and not someone who needs 'an arm round him all the time'. I just dont understand this whole concept , what dose Gerrard want ?  , to be told every five minutes that he is the most important player at the club ? ..... the fans singing his name every 5 minutes should and i think is enough.

I am not having a pop at him by the way , as i dont feel the point made reflects the strict truth , everybody keeps saying Pako was the one who had the connection with the players ... how do we know this ? ...I always thought he was more of a tactician than a player liason type feller.


....basically i just dont believe that the reason we are playing badly this season is anything to do with the owners saga or Pako leaving. Maybe , just maybe it will affect some players and i must admit Gerrard is a sensitive lad but the whole team ? .... i just dont buy it.

From the way I see it, we may need a "master tactician" more than a "psychologist". Rafa is too analytical and conservative with his tactics to the extend that he's kiling the players' confidence. Players are paid by thousands of pounds every week to perform and they jolly well perform up to mark.

No we won't need a sports psychologist right now, the players just need a kick up the backside!

No we won't need a sports psychologist right now, the players just need a kick up the backside!

But Stevie G might cry or ask for a transfer... some players DO NOT work with kicks up the culo... and our Captain is one of them... another is Torres ...and another is Babel... I'm sure there are more in our dressing room.

To be fair , Gerrard needs to sort it out if thats the case and get his head toegether. He is the captain of our club and should be the one leading by example and not someone who needs 'an arm round him all the time'. I just dont understand this whole concept , what dose Gerrard want ?  , to be told every five minutes that he is the most important player at the club ? ..... the fans singing his name every 5 minutes should and I think is enough.

I am not having a pop at him by the way , as I dont feel the point made reflects the strict truth , everybody keeps saying Pako was the one who had the connection with the players ... how do we know this ? ...I always thought he was more of a tactician than a player liason type feller.


....basically I just dont believe that the reason we are playing badly this season is anything to do with the owners saga or Pako leaving. Maybe , just maybe it will affect some players and I must admit Gerrard is a sensitive lad but the whole team ? .... I just dont buy it.

Think of it this way. You have a sensitive manager who puts up a front and seems stubborn but under it all hes just another normal person doing his job. All the speculation around the club grows and grows and every game you see the look on the managers face, he is bordering tears and cant even do his job properly due to not having the backing he needs and fear of being fired.

This added to seeing your captain feeling the pressure affects the dressing room majorly and results not going your way just makes it all the worse.

everybody keeps saying Pako was the one who had the connection with the players ... how do we know this ? ...I always thought he was more of a tactician than a player liason type feller.

Read this book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Season-Brink-portrait-Benitezs-Liverpool/dp/0752879367/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=gateway&qid=1201815826&sr=8-1

Tells you all you need to know about Pako's complimentary role to Rafa - away from the pure fitness coach role... and I've had it verified as true - but that's another story...

But Stevie G might cry or ask for a transfer... some players DO NOT work with kicks up the culo... and our Captain is one of them... another is Torres ...and another is Babel... I'm sure there are more in our dressing room.

Only winners accept punishments, because punishments make them go that extra step further! I'm sure Stevie G would accept punishment.. he's not bigger than the club whether he likes it or not!

Only winners accept punishments, because punishments make them go that extra step further! I'm sure Stevie G would accept punishment.. he's not bigger than the club whether he likes it or not!

That's the thing, sometimes he is made to feel bigger than the club, because the team that represents it is built around the fact that HE wants to play in the middle... when it is more than proved that the TEAM is more effective when he plays on the wing/libero allowing for Xabi or Masch to start games too...

For me it has always been a no brainer - but the press and StevieG himself think otherwise.  Rafa needs to put THINGS back in their place, for the sake of the team... and must have a zero tolerance of his Captain's probable sulking.

When a guy becomes too big at a club, it isn't always a good thing, no matter the natural ability - e.g. Torres & Atletico de Madrid (local lad and captain) - since his departure the team is competing in Europe and for a CL place for the first time in many years... (note qualified for europe through Inter Toto - Nando had already left).

I love StevieG and think he is a fantastic footballer, but he certainly ISN'T bigger than what is best for the TEAM and the Club... anyway he plays it both ways too... when it comes to England doesn't he?

^ what did fergie do to beckham, and van nistleroy when they were getting big heads......he showed them the door, and the mancs have never looked back since.

just a thought....

^ what did fergie do to beckham, and van nistleroy when they were getting big heads......he showed them the door, and the mancs have never looked back since.

just a thought....

A very decent thought at that!

Nobody wants him out to be honest, but if the team isn't delivering or being optimised to fit around him... and then HE doesn't deliver either... well what are you supposed to think?

IRWT

^we'll probabally be burned at the stake for having this conversation...

Its clear to all premiership sides that we have to have one defensive CM and one attacking CM. Our main Def CMs are MAsch and Xabi obviously. But if you look at Arsenal, mancs and chelski, their counterpart for stevie G's role, fabregas, scholes(anderson now) and essien are all completeley different players to stevie. They all stay in their pivot role in the center of the park and spray the ball forward to the strikers and wingers.

While this problem might also be attributed to the lack of quality of our wingers or strikers, I have the belief for a while now (before the slump in form) that stevie is more of a liability in midfield. I love and admire stevie the same as the next supporter, but this is what I feel and my honest opinion.

The right is his place.

But then with him on the right we have no pennant ever playing no benayoun ever playing. They seriously wont get a start and will both become cup and late sub kind of players. Stevie will keep someone out of the team wherever he plays so either way its the same problem.

^ I'd rather have him keeping pennant out of a place than keeping alonso or lucas out of a place.

^ I'd rather have him keeping pennant out of a place than keeping alonso or lucas out of a place.

...or Masch on the bench.

But atm as tough as it is for people to take pennant and benayoun both offer more than the majority of our players. Alonso for example his form has slumped more than most and i think he offers less than both those RW players. fair enough pennant isn't the best but he deserves credit for what he has done.

Started the season where he left off last season and then got injured. Then he comes back from a bone fracture to his leg and starts playing well again straight away.

and benayoun has scored more goals than the majority of the team. People seem to be getting too caught up in us underperforming and dismissing the fact that we are creating so many chances but the problem is coming from up top not the middle of the park. We need crouch starting with torres to help score.

^ what did fergie do to beckham, and van nistleroy when they were getting big heads......he showed them the door, and the mancs have never looked back since.

just a thought...

I know it's not    but I can't wait to see what Fergie will do to C.Ronaldo.... can't wait 

I know it's not    but I can't wait to see what Fergie will do to C.Ronaldo.... can't wait 

He will probably throw a footy boot at him

I know it's not    but I can't wait to see what Fergie will do to C.Ronaldo.... can't wait 

  Like it Aussie mate.

To be fair Don, I wouldn't raise any eyebrows to a certain type of person coming in to boost confidence - if it would work. Confidence needs boosting. But shouldn't it really come down to Rafa to instill confidence?

We've all put forward reasons as to why this slump is going on, but I just thought of another whilst I was out having a smoko break (at work at the moment) and I'd just like to put it out there for possible debate.


Does anyone think that maybe the slump in form may have anything to do with the players not wanting to leave loved ones at home due to the robberies that have been taking place against our lads. For example, maybe Stevie hasn't really got his mind on his game since his place was robbed and his wife and kids were inside the house at the time.

I know this is a remote possibilty but there are so many factors to be considered, I'm just thinking that this really could be one as the club haven't mentioned it and maybe are keeping the players feelings behind closed doors so as not to let the press on to it. We all know the press are vultures and would have a feeding frenzy with this sort of backstage info.

If it is one of the factors, in reply to the Topic question, then maybe we do need to see a sports physcologist.

But Stevie G might cry or ask for a transfer... some players DO NOT work with kicks up the culo... and our Captain is one of them... another is Torres ...and another is Babel... I'm sure there are more in our dressing room.

if the manager dares criticise one of his players, no matter who they are, and they spit the dummy and ask for a transfer, who's at fault..... the manager or the player? rafa is employed to manage the team as he sees fit.    how do you know that babel or torres wont work with a kick up the arse. i'm sure they havent went through their careers without getting a rollocking at one stage or another.  to me thats the problem in football today.  20 years ago the manager WAS the boss, now though, the power has shifted to the players because of the huge amount of commercialism in the game.  the only place you used to see football players was in 'shoot' or 'match' magazine on a friday, now they are making clubs millions and have too much power off the pitch.

If i was Rafa, I would be tempted to give Gerrard a bollocking, he put him back in the centre like he asked for and what does he do? Sulk and look disintrested about it, we all know he can turn it on but he only ever seems to do it in the big games when the media is watching. Get Stevie out on the right and bring in Lucas or Xabi, Lucas, Xabi and Masch are all better that Stevie technically.

We need Stevie at a time like this when the club looks as if it's in turmoil, and it's for this attitude of Stevies 'No-one can tell me what to do' that i would like Carra to be captain.

We need Stevie at a time like this when the club looks as if it's in turmoil, and it's for this attitude of Stevies 'No-one can tell me what to do' that I would like Carra to be captain.

Couldn't have put it better myself!