Vote: The tide is turning against Rafa?

I voted YES, do we need to start again fram the beginning 
 A new manager will have to change some players to play his style of football
  Rafa has to have another year atleast,yes we are in a bad spell at the moment,
 But changing rafa still wont bring the off form players to their form,(which for me is the main reason for our worst run in months)
 Rafa hasent gone from a very good manager to a bad one overnight, does anyone think he will be jobless if he leaves or be sacked
 there are  a few BIG european clubs ready to jump to get  him as soon as he leaves Anfield
 So Yes we still need rafa
 

I am going to start by saying I am not going to vote.  I think any manager should be given time to put his stamp on the club and prove that they are capable of bringing the success we all crave.  However if it is clearly not working and, for whatever reason, we are going backwards then it might then be time to look for an alternative.  If at the end of this season we can all see that the team is moving forward then Rafa should be given another year to demonstrate what his management can achieve.  If it slumps into a disaster then we should look elsewhere.  Nobody has a right to unquestioning support.

Rafa has a reputation as a good manager and a shrewd tactician.  What he has achieved in the past does not however mean jacksh*t.  It is what he is doing now that counts.  Some of his recent selections and tactics have left me, and a lot of other people on this forum, totally mystified.  Why does he persist with Kuyt when he is clearly not up to it and why does he make substitutions so late in a game there is little chance of turning the match around?  I think dropping players when they are playing well does little for their confidence.  Some players need a decent run to demonstrate their best.  I think Peter Crouch is an example of this.

We seem to be playing very defensive and unadventurous football against teams that quite frankly we should take apart given the quality we now have.  The season started well and we played some good football but the confidence seems to have gone out of the team and we look scared of losing.  There is still time to turn this around and I think we have the players to do it.  It has to start on Saturday against Sunderland and keep going until the end of the season.

As I have said I am willing to keep faith with Rafa until the end of the season but if the results don't start to improve soon our American owners may not be so patient.  Champions League football is a must to support their financial plans.



  

Yes, i have grown disillusioned by Rafa this season, though i believe the mans record speaks for itself.

One last season, make or break time.

Martin O'Neill

The biggest turning point of the season has been the Reading game. Obviously the players had all attention on the Scum game and coming into the Reading match on the back of a 4-1 win over Porto, i can see why they were so excited to play Scum. This was the match to test their title credentials. One loss was a blow but the loss after the Scum hurt more so. These 2 losses lead graudally into a form slump and dip in morale.

As for Rafa, he isn't managing this side, Tom, George and Rick are and its being played through Rafa. If Rafa had some privacy and let go to do his job the way he wanted then we wouldnt see all this crap in the media and on the field. The board need to step back because this isnt America. They need to talk at the beginning of the season on tranfer targets and a kitty for Rafa to spend. They need to keep as far away as possible from Rafa when it comes to match days and let him run his team. He has brought in talent from all over the world for the youth system and would be suicide to our youth teams if Rafa was let go and have another guy at the top. It is only fair to let him work his own magic and not be their bi*ch.

I R I T

Y N W A

Yes, I have grown disillusioned by Rafa this season, though I believe the mans record speaks for itself.

One last season, make or break time.

Fair enough.

He said he would be here for minimum eight years when he joined... I bet we end up asking him to stay longer...Hicks mouth/ego permitting of course.

I just want him and Pako back and working together again... Parry should work on fixing that between them NOW!

I think Rafa should be given one more season to try and get it right. I don't believe in jumping on band wagons either. But the truth is I do feel short changed in paying for my season ticket this year and ripped off in the money I have spent following The 'Pool away from home. Long before all the stink with the Yanks kicked off the football has been sh*te in the league and the results have been poor. This won't improve unless Rafa changes his policy of Tinkering with every team he picks. We must average about five changes in every team that plays! I don't mind on or two changes to keep players fresh or for tactical reasons but Rafa makes that many changes that the football becomes disjointed.Players can't develop relationships on the field, and I believe this is the reason for a Liverpool team that gives the ball away so much. I've never seen so many passes go astray. The other top managers don't make that many changes and reap the rewards of having a settled team, I have been very impressed by the way Chelsea have worked their way into contention and are sitting there just behind the top two and well in with a shout. Rafa has proved he is a tactical genius at times, especially in the big games against the likes of Chavski, Juve and most famously Milan. But at times I do think he puts to much tactics into games when there is no need for it. The Wigan game at home was a fine example of this and one month on I'm still scratching my head trying to work out what he was trying to do! In games like that a simple 4-4-2 and just go at them and allow you team to express themselves. Another good example of this tactical craziness is the prolonged "headless chicken" role with he gives to Dirk Kuyt. The only reason that a striker would take up the positions that Kuyt does is if the services is poor or none existent and he goes hunting for the ball or if he is acting on the managers instructions. Kuyt's reward for this is to look a complete tw*t on the field and constant barracking from the fans! This lad was a fine player for his last club and looked great when he first came to Liverpool. I blame the club for whats happening to him, and he should be playing as a striker, with a partner when selected.

So I do think we should give Rafa one more season to sort this out, I think he's earned that at least. But I won't be on any marches or demonstrations in support of him and deep down I don't think he will change his managerial policies and I don't think we will challenge for the League next year. I do pray that I'm wrong! It's got to the point where I go to the match just out of loyalty and love for my club. I don't expect to see any kind of good football being played and if we win it's a bonus. The sad and worrying thing for Rafa is hand on heart I do think that we have the talent at the club to challenge for the League. True we do have some dead wood, but I think that if Rafa was to go Martin O'Neil would come in and have us challenging in his first season. And he would be my choice of mananger.

We must average about five changes in every team that plays!

So let's say we have five/spine that are the ones usually not changed:

Pepe
Carra
Masch StevieG
Torres

They HAVE played MOST of the games... but have ALL had nightmare games along the way... without exception and probably each indifferent performance by either of those has cost us, at least, a draw... jeez even Pepe hasn't been pulling off the world class saves we know he has in his locker!

We need our BEST players DELIVERING CONSISTENTLY... and it drags the rest of the team up by their socks... you can't be on mega-bucks and not deliver, it's exactly the reason you ARE on mega-bucks, because you deliver a lot more often than not.

End of rant.

So let's say we have five/spine that are the ones usually not changed:

Pepe
Carra
Masch StevieG
Torres

They HAVE played MOST of the games... but have ALL had nightmare games along the way... without exception and probably each indifferent performance by either of those has cost us, at least, a draw... jeez even Pepe hasn't been pulling off the world class saves we know he has in his locker!

We need our BEST players DELIVERING CONSISTENTLY... and it drags the rest of the team up by their socks... you can't be on mega-bucks and not deliver, it's exactly the reason you ARE on mega-bucks, because you deliver a lot more often than not.

End of rant.

My opinion is that a spine of 5 players to remain unchanged is not enough. I would prefer a defense of 4 unchanged. A central midfield of 2 unchanged and 2 up front unchanged. I feel this would build partnerships/ relationships. I think players have to get to know each other and how the play. how many times do you see Liverpool fire a dangerous ball across the six yard box but there's no one there to tap the ball home? Liverpool are a team of players that don't know what each other are going to do. I believe this is what makes the players that you have mentioned look poor and brings on poor form.

My opinion is that a spine of 5 players to remain unchanged is not enough. I would prefer a defense of 4 unchanged. A central midfield of 2 unchanged and 2 up front unchanged. I feel this would build partnerships/ relationships. I think players have to get to know each other and how the play. how many times do you see Liverpool fire a dangerous ball across the six yard box but there's no one there to tap the ball home? Liverpool are a team of players that don't know what each other are going to do. I believe this is what makes the players that you have mentioned look poor and brings on poor form.

Crazy Horse, wake-up smell some coffee... do you realise how many squad players have suffered injuries this season - we have had Melwood probably resembling ER... and you talk about entire blocks of the team being unchanged - Rafa hasn't been able to do it, even if he wanted to...

This season, starting pre-season (Pako exit) has been swimming against tide (rotation/media) after tide (injuries) after tide (G&H rumours) after tide (DIC rumours) after tide (Rafa exit rumours) after tide (Fans revolt)...

This has been anything BUT a normal season my friend... certainly not one to even (realistically) contemplate a serious title charge.

...but it ain't over until it's over and I fully expect us to have more silverware this May... because there is so much frustration and energy caged in the squad, that when it is realised we will be simply, unstoppable. Convinced.

Crazy Horse, wake-up smell some coffee... do you realise how many squad players have suffered injuries this season - we have had Melwood probably resembling ER... and you talk about entire blocks of the team being unchanged - Rafa hasn't been able to do it, even if he wanted to...

This season, starting pre-season (Pako exit) has been swimming against tide (rotation/media) after tide (injuries) after tide (G&H rumours) after tide (DIC rumours) after tide (Rafa exit rumours) after tide (Fans revolt)...

This has been anything BUT a normal season my friend... certainly not one to even (realistically) contemplate a serious title charge.

...but it ain't over until it's over and I fully expect us to have more silverware this May... because there is so much frustration and energy caged in the squad, that when it is realized we will be simply, unstoppable. Convinced.

Excuse me for having an opinion. What I couldn't understand is that when we had injurys and changes were forced up on the manager why he chose to make a few more changes on to for good measure. What I can't understand is when Peter Crouch comes on and scores against Villa, starts and scores against Havvent he is dropped for the West Ham game , now I'm going to make a cup of coffee!

The other top managers don't make that many changes and reap the rewards of having a settled team

They do make just as many changes actually, it's just the media don't like to pick up on that fact.

I think the problem is that our expectations are too high, not that it's a bad thing. The facts are we have spent like a mid table club for years, mainly due to the fact that our commercial setup is of that sort of standard. Why should we have some God given right to be challenging for the league ahead of teams like Spurs & Villa, who've been spending the same sort of money as us? If anything Rafa is a victim of his own success, due to the CL & FA Cup victories our expectations have been raised, but we are not gonna win the league whilst spending the money we have been.

 Yes. Consistency is the key to any successful clubs, it's obvious. Eddie make a valid point in his post above, our expectations are probably too hight. Once thing for sure is that there are not top quality managers available if RAFA is going.

 The stories around our club this year have been a major source of disruption and any club would have had problems to cope with it.

They do make just as many changes actually, it's just the media don't like to pick up on that fact.

I think the problem is that our expectations are too high, not that it's a bad thing. The facts are we have spent like a mid table club for years, mainly due to the fact that our commercial setup is of that sort of standard. Why should we have some God given right to be challenging for the league ahead of teams like Spurs & Villa, who've been spending the same sort of money as us? If anything Rafa is a victim of his own success, due to the CL & FA Cup victories our expectations have been raised, but we are not gonna win the league whilst spending the money we have been.

Absolutley agree with you eddie..

I would also like to add that I feel we have missed pennant more than we think. I dont think he's the best player in the world but he does what he does, and thats staying on the wing and puts acurate crosses in. Rafa doesnt see a player as good or bad, but rather what he brings to the team as sort of a tactical attribute (if you can call it that). As a result of his absense I felt we have been very/too congested in the middle, which against some of the worlds best centre backs in the prem, is not the best idea.

due to the fact that our commercial setup is of that sort of standard.

Haven't we had a new Marketing Director in place since the Yanks joined...

Can anybody see the difference??

On line shop, joke

Ticketing, joke

Hospitality, joke

AIB - Association of Intl Branches - complete and utter joke.

I'm not so sure abt rafa.. Like the guy.He has been grt 4 club- but whether He's the man to win us epl, i'm not sure.he seems to be stubborn abt a few things.main being his reluctance to start crouch despite pathetic form of kuyt n vernoin.i still cant figure the reasons out?his constant change in formation and personnel is confusing everybody including players.We definitely lack killer instinct and unfortunately rafa has failed to change that.Will we ever play aggressive attacking game  from start like manu or arsenal- i wonder! We have a good enough squad to be atleast close to top of table.i cant be sure why we are lagging so much.Rafa simply cant be blameless. The only good thing to come out of past few days has been that vernoin is injured and out for few weeks.i want some responses guys

They do make just as many changes actually, it's just the media don't like to pick up on that fact.

I think the problem is that our expectations are too high, not that it's a bad thing. The facts are we have spent like a mid table club for years, mainly due to the fact that our commercial setup is of that sort of standard. Why should we have some God given right to be challenging for the league ahead of teams like Spurs & Villa, who've been spending the same sort of money as us? If anything Rafa is a victim of his own success, due to the CL & FA Cup victories our expectations have been raised, but we are not gonna win the league whilst spending the money we have been.

Ed, we dont agree on much....but what you have just typed, i agree with 150%!!!
When we buy players like benayoun, and a name like torres/morientes pops up occassionally with some success and 'world-class' tag next to them, we shouldnt expect to be winning the title. As they say,"you pay peanuts, and u get monkeys". We dont necessarily get monkeys, however, we dont get the players who are likely to bring us and contribute to success.
Like Ed said, if we want to win the league and ensure success, we must spend big on players of a high caliber over the next 2 season, and following this, begin buying youth after a few years of success. So, after 5-6 years, we have an outstanding combination of experienced and youngsters who have made a name for themselves. (like what wenger did at arsenal, when he had established a strong squad with the likes of henry, bergkamp, pires, sol campbell, patrick vieirra he then introduced cesc....now, hes become one of the best players in the world at 20 years old)

There is no other coach but rafa who i want to coach us. However, every game we play, his tactics/player choice always comes under scrutiny. We dont feel he starts our best/strongest squad, he makes incorrect subs, sometimes he makes them too late, or not at all. In addition, I personally believe we're not aggressive and attacking enough, especially at Anfield. Teams have to start playing on our terms, and they should be on the backfoot when they play against us. We cleary get lost and dont know what to do with the ball when we get into our attacking third of the pitch...rafa's fault?? Maybe, i duno.

I still don't believe that the managers of the top three teams make as many changes as Rafa, I can't find any statistics to prove this! I am going to be watching this now 'cos its doing my head in! As for expecting to much or thinking we have a god given right to success, all I want is Liverpool to make a genuine tittle challenge, just be up there compeating in the League. I believe we have the squad to do it, but in answer to the question of the thread my opinion is that I have doubts about Rafa. This is born from the fact that from my seat in the Kemlyn Rd the football is poor and hasn't been good enough for a while. Like I said I think Rafa has earned the chance to try and put it right but I wouldn't like to see him get more than another season. For me Rafa has it all to prove. I don't want to see Liverpool owned by some multi Billionaire who just throws all the money he wants at the club (like Chavski). Just a steady stream of a transfer budjet so we can earn the right to be champions.

Agree 100% Eddie and something i have noted a few times before.

maybe other managers dont make as many changes but they still make them albeit maybe 1 or 2 so why is that when they do it its called resting and when rafa does it iits called rotation i fail to see the difference a change is a change no matter which way you look at it or calli it

I consider myself to be a loyal supporter of our manager, and thats through thick and thin, and not fall in with the fickle pack mostly drive on by the red tops. In my personal assessment of Rafa I'm absolutely sure that he is cognoscente of his our tactical short comings at times. To that end I am equally sure he will be addressing them over the coming months.
IRWT
YNWA

In Rafa I trust. The Rafalution must continue

I voted yes, he should still be here. Fair enough he's having a bad season but a lot of sh*t has happened as well. I'd still like to give him another season or two.