Rafa MUST win us the league next season

nice one dadorious. We can all build a great LFC team and win everything.......on a game like Football manager, however doin it in real life is harder. u have finacial, morale, and physical factors. not to mention Fan opinion and boardroom interferance. Rafa did a great job at valencia eventually with next to nothing, so lets give him chance to take us to the top, no matter how long it takes. Tho id like to see a domestic success, maybe in the cups

oh how silly i am. i forgot it took fergie seven years to win the league. so we should reinstate Souness and give him another three years. Evans should return for another three and Gerard Houllier would of won the league in 04/05 because it was his seventh year. for fucks sake lads wake up and realise that the fact it took Ferguson seven years is F**k all to do with Liverpool Football Club. For crying out loud, will people stop making the same pathetic excuses. None of them hold truth.

Redhead you're spot on about years ago (even if I didn't live through them I know all about them through me auld man) there was plenty of names who became superstars at this club who spent a long time in the reserves. Nowadays fans do expect success instantly, especially in the transfers. If you sign someone for 10 million plus you don't expect them to sit in the reserves and they themselves would be expecting first team football. That is one of the biggest problems at this club at the moment. Far too many players just coasting through picking up 40 grand a week (or more) without deserving a F***ing penny. Yet they all like the media spotlight on them and they know more attention is on them in Europe, one of the reasons why our players perform so well in Europe. It's more attention for them. Very few of at the club play for love. Even Gerrard who is the greatest footballer I've seen, is on a contract worth over 100K a week, that's not love. There's a million and one people who'd play for the club for nothing. I'm not saying Gerrard isn't worth it, but as a fan like he is, he should be happy playing for a pittance rather than holding the club to ranson like he was a few years back.

As for name a better manager, to be honest I can't. But we couldn't find a better manager than Joe Fagan in 1985 so what did we do? We employed a player-manager in Kenny Dalglish and what happened. We won the double in his first year (only time we've ever done league and FA Cup double in our history) and we played the best football in our history with Beardsley, Barnes, Aldridge and Houghton as an attacking four. So why not employ a player-manager now. Sami Hyypia isn't getting any younger, won't be played to much this year and knows what it means to play for the club. He has the respect of the other players being one of the most experinced and being a former captain.

I've got to say I'll never buy into the money excuse. Chelsea spent thirty million on Shevchenko he scored 5 goals last year, we got Voronin on a free and he scored 5 goals. So for a man costing thirty million more in his second year he still couldn't score more than a man who was free in his first year. So much for money and time eh lads? Money gets you so far, it doesn't excuse you from failing. When Chelsea "bought" the league they played great football with Robben and Duff either side of Gudjohnsen/Drogba/Hasselbaink. Yet with the same amounts of money at their disposal they played long ball right up to Drogba and they didn't win the league. So yet again money will only get you so far. Yes it may buy you a better quality player, but it still takes a lot more than money to get a winning side. We could sign Messi, Kaka and Klose tomorrow but if they aren't managed properly, don't adapt or just hit bad form then all that money is wasted. Money doesn't excuse us from failing. So please stop finidng excuses that are quite clearly flawed.

As for the point someone made where you don't need time to win cup competitions but you do in the league lets take the league one year at a time. thirty seven points off top and fifth in the league holds a little truth that you need time, to 05/06 when we were nine points behind Chelsea and third in the league kinda squashes the time excuse especially when the following year (more time) we went back to twenty one points behind. Onto last year (two more years on since we finished nine points behind) we still finished eleven points behind and fourth. So with all this time on his side, we've got no closer. So yet another flawed excuse that seems convenient for people to hide behind.

As for those happy coming fourth, plenty of you are because it guarentees Champions League football the following season and with all due repsect folks, many of you care more for Europe than the Premiership. As do many of the people in the club. Each competition deserves the same respect as the next, despite some holding more prestige than others. We'd all prefer to win the Premiership than the Leauge Cup but that doesn't mean we should sacrifice the League Cup for the Premiership. If Benitez wants to pick a bunch of kids for the Carling Cup like he did in 04/05 then he should let them finish the competition not put all the big boys back in for the semis and final. If the competition wasn't important enough for him in the early rounds then he should repay the lads who got him that far.

But the truth is, we're too inconsistant and don't have enough players playing for the shirt but rather their pay packet. Money can't buy consistantcy or passion. If people actually stop hiding away from the truth and opened their eyes, maybe they would see this.

Dunlop you have way too much time on your hads my friend I have been posting on the forum for 6 months and have never seen anyone put so much time in writting so much crap. Your posts have alot of bark about them but no bite what so ever. I think the Liverpool team you have built on Fifa is quite successful and wins you alot of trophies.

I'll refer you to this post again mate, no need to say anymore really.

well if I played fifa this pathetic arguement might hold truth, but considering I don't it's just like all the rest of the arguements you blinded lads have....TOTAL BOLLOCKS.

well if I played fifa this pathetic arguement might hold truth, but considering I don't it's just like all the rest of the arguements you blinded lads have....TOTAL BOLLOCKS.

If you're too shortsighted or closed-minded to realise that our "arguments" are based on factual analysis of our clubs history and those of the clubs around us then that's your problem. You're entitled to your opinion, but there's no need to resort to calling people's valid arguments as bollocks. Why don't you sit down calmly and gather your thoughts, before typing the first thing that comes into your head, because one minute your calling Rafa a genius and the next minute your saying he should be out asap or that his tactics and policies are useless. Maybe we're all full of bollocks but at least we aren't self-contradictary.

Dunlop lad when I read your post I have a mental picture of someone screaming and waving their arms frantically to call attention but there is no noise.

On the other hand if you are so fed up F**k off go to the Mancs and the Chavs! They will bring you guaranteed short term joy and success.

You try to refer Souness, Evans and Houllier into the argument.  King Kenny was a legend and did remarkable as a player manager, but he inherited one of the best teams in the world.  For doing that again it’s a very poor suggestion as since it has proven a failure so many times that is no longer considered an option at the highest level.  You are pointing your finger at a manager and then in a indirect way saying that the position isn’t so important.  The post needs experience and a proven record for everyone but you.

As for Souness he also took over the best team, but was clearly went down hill, he came a liability we all know that and we had to change, no one hardly called Souness a genius.  As for Houllier he did have his time I don’t think he was a sh*t manager, but wasn’t effective for us without the chips, maybe, he needed a rest after his illnesses.  Given the chips by his side, he didn’t let down at Lyon.  It came a time that he made a lot of mistakes in the transfer market at the top end especially with Diouf, Diaos, Cheyrou…etc.  Our squad was depreciating very fast the progress was going backwards and we were huffing and puffing for fourth place. 

Benitez has been clinical in getting us the champion’s league position apart from his first season we have been very comfortable in reaching this target.  Also as mentioned by others that his investments are not a liability, and has in fact started making profits from his overall investments.  So if he’s giving that extra time we will not be risking putting money and authority in the wrong hands.  And if we have to part ways the incoming manager has assets on the pitch for the investment trusted in Benitez.  If we give Benitez a few more years until now it doesn’t seem that he will be a liability.  But at the end of next season which is one of the things I agree with you that a plan should be assessed after five years which is a reasonable period.  Though I’m assessing it after four years and can clearly see that he deserves another year at least after his five as I have mentioned time and time again that he isn’t a liability in the transfer market and that he has taken us up the ladder in Europe.

We have been starved of both Europe and domestic achievement for about 20 years.  Here we have a manager that has succeed in achieving one of them forts.  He is a ‘genius’ in Europe in your very own words.  So I just can’t see the value in gambling for the league with someone else to compromise this achievement.  If Fergy was given 7 years that Benitez is exactly the person that should be given that extra little time to prove himself in the league.

On the other hand if you are so fed up F**k off go to the Mancs and the Chavs! They will bring you guaranteed short term joy and success.

I'm beginning to think that he has the biological make-up of a glory hunter.  Dunlop maybe thats a very good piece of advice from dadorious for you!

lad the definination of a glory hunter is this "somebody who supports a side based on previous successes yet has no clue about the club and don't in any shape or form feel hurt when a side loses"

i'm born n bred in Liverpool unlike so many. I know the history of the club and I put every spare penny I have into following the club. I haven't missed a home game for about 10 years now and last couple of years I've made trips up and down Europe supporting them. I've had 17 years of me dad banging on about the "good ole days". The stories me dad tells me of St Ettienne in 77, Munchengladbach in 77, Rome in 84, the double of 86, Aldo's missed pen in the 88 Cup final, Shanks last game as manager in the Cup final of 74, they all fill me up with pride. If I was a glory hunter I'd of sodded off to support United in the early 90s when they had a great side but I didn't have that choice. From the minute I was born I was going to be Liverpool because that's the way me dad brought me up. He embedded the fact that Liverpool Football Club are the greatest side in the world and no other side can come close. As for the Mancs "short term success" I don't class 15 years as the best side in England as short term do you?

I don't know how many of you are scousers but coming from the city of Liverpool you don't pick and choose clubs, you're either Liverpool or Everton or on the off chance Tranmere. We're not like other cities where we don't follow our local team. I don't need to glory hunt because the glory is already there, I just now want glory for the fans of the future to hear about.

England's most successful club to go nearly 20 years without a title is too bloody long. The older fans will remember laughing at United for going 27 years without a title, unless we change things quickly, they'll be laughing at us for going nearly 30 years without a title. I've supported this club through thick and thin and will certainly continue to do so.

You try to refer Souness, Evans and Houllier into the argument.  King Kenny was a legend and did remarkable as a player manager, but he inherited one of the best teams in the world.  For doing that again it’s a very poor suggestion as since it has proven a failure so many times that is no longer considered an option at the highest level.  You are pointing your finger at a manager and then in a indirect way saying that the position isn’t so important.  The post needs experience and a proven record for everyone but you.

As for Souness he also took over the best team, but was clearly went down hill, he came a liability we all know that and we had to change, no one hardly called Souness a genius.  As for Houllier he did have his time I don’t think he was a sh*t manager, but wasn’t effective for us without the chips, maybe, he needed a rest after his illnesses.  Given the chips by his side, he didn’t let down at Lyon.  It came a time that he made a lot of mistakes in the transfer market at the top end especially with Diouf, Diaos, Cheyrou…etc.  Our squad was depreciating very fast the progress was going backwards and we were huffing and puffing for fourth place. 

Benitez has been clinical in getting us the champion’s league position apart from his first season we have been very comfortable in reaching this target.  Also as mentioned by others that his investments are not a liability, and has in fact started making profits from his overall investments.  So if he’s giving that extra time we will not be risking putting money and authority in the wrong hands.  And if we have to part ways the incoming manager has assets on the pitch for the investment trusted in Benitez.  If we give Benitez a few more years until now it doesn’t seem that he will be a liability.  But at the end of next season which is one of the things I agree with you that a plan should be assessed after five years which is a reasonable period.  Though I’m assessing it after four years and can clearly see that he deserves another year at least after his five as I have mentioned time and time again that he isn’t a liability in the transfer market and that he has taken us up the ladder in Europe.

We have been starved of both Europe and domestic achievement for about 20 years.  Here we have a manager that has succeed in achieving one of them forts.  He is a ‘genius’ in Europe in your very own words.  So I just can’t see the value in gambling for the league with someone else to compromise this achievement.  If Fergy was given 7 years that Benitez is exactly the person that should be given that extra little time to prove himself in the league.

So going on that we can say "it's ok Rafa you've got a job for life if you keep reaching the semi finals of the Champions League" That's the entire point, the fella works wonders in Europe but that's not good enough. Four years without a league challenge is nowhere near good enough considering 150 million plus to spend. If he's the tactical genius we're led to believe then he should be able to work round the obstacles that others can put up. He won the league with Valencia when Madrid and Barca outspent them on a regular basis. Pretty similar to over here but again it somehow excuses us from succeeding. Why doesn't money come into it when we're beating Cheslea in the cups? Or beating United in the FA Cup in 05/06 (peter crouch header) That's why the money arguement has more holes in it than a golf course. Truth is we're far too inconsistant to win the league. The league requires consistancy, cups don't really. Money can't buy consistancy. No matter what people think.

Also I still fail to see a contradicition in "the fella is a genius, but he has to go if we don't win the league". The man is a genius in Europe, he's not in the Premiership. Where's the contradicition considering they're different compititions. It's like saying a dog is good at walking but not fetching. Two completely different things, which means you form an opinion on them differently. Success in Europe doesn't excuse failure in the league and failure in the league doesn't overshadow success in Europe.

I understand what your harpin on about cause it hurts me aswell but i keep sayin theres no other manager out there at the moment who is better than Raffa . You go on about player manager , forinstance Sammi ,gone are them days long ago the lad would be destroyed within a month with the pressure.
Theres not a manager around at the moment who is as loyal as Raffa and he hes shown it with all this carry on, Hes doing his best for LFC and it will be him who eventually throws the towel in. And oh how we will live to regret it. We will end up with some F***ing nomark who will take us back ten years.

I have watched the ressies loads last season they are absolutly class right through the team that is the future that Raffa is building and i for one am made up with that.

Were not F***ing Newcastle or Spurs were we get rid we are Liverpool Football club and we support our own through good an bad . So while Benitez is the boss he will have my full support

But the truth is, we're too inconsistant and don't have enough players playing for the shirt but rather their pay packet. Money can't buy consistantcy or passion. If people actually stop hiding away from the truth and opened their eyes, maybe they would see this.

Certainly when some players suggested that if Rafa was to leave they would consider their position, it did question who the players loyalties lay with.

I personally don't think Rafa needs to win the title or face the sack next season, although that may be the owners take on things whoever they may be.  Just look at Avram Grant - he was within a match of winning the title.

I agree totally with dadorious.
We must also not forget what an important part we "the fans" play in this.  We need to give Rafa and the boys our full support and have faith they will come true because lets face it it's easier to do your job when everyone around you has faith in you!
Can't wait for the next season to start!!
p.s. Nice one Eddie C! Take no Sh*t!!

lad the definination of a glory hunter is this "somebody who supports a side based on previous successes yet has no clue about the club and don't in any shape or form feel hurt when a side loses"

I'm born n bred in Liverpool unlike so many. I know the history of the club and I put every spare penny I have into following the club. I haven't missed a home game for about 10 years now and last couple of years I've made trips up and down Europe supporting them. I've had 17 years of me dad banging on about the "good ole days". The stories me dad tells me of St Ettienne in 77, Munchengladbach in 77, Rome in 84, the double of 86, Aldo's missed pen in the 88 Cup final, Shanks last game as manager in the Cup final of 74, they all fill me up with pride. If I was a glory hunter I'd of sodded off to support United in the early 90s when they had a great side but I didn't have that choice. From the minute I was born I was going to be Liverpool because that's the way me dad brought me up. He embedded the fact that Liverpool Football Club are the greatest side in the world and no other side can come close.
I don't know how many of you are scousers but coming from the city of Liverpool you don't pick and choose clubs, you're either Liverpool or Everton or on the off chance Tranmere. We're not like other cities where we don't follow our local team. I don't need to glory hunt because the glory is already there, I just now want glory for the fans of the future to hear about.

I didn’t call you a glory hunter I said you had the genes of one.  I can see it hit a nerve and maybe it may give you a little consideration when so sparingly disrespecting loyal fans on here.  As we all share the same ultimate objectives it’s just we see different ways of going about things.

You’re just too far fetched if you had some good solutions then it would be different. 

You want to bridge the gap with our money rich rivals by signing players from the lower leagues players.  But don’t want to give them the time to settle in?

You can’t think of manager that is good enough to take Benitez’s place so you’re suggesting we give to Hyypia.  And obviously you think that Hyypia will instantly win us the league.

Then you talk about people wanting to give Benitez a life time/ 50 years but should be sacked in five years.  What I am saying that Benitez deserves an extra season or two more than the norm for his success not a lifetime.  People on here have used fergy as an example that united backed him by giving him more than they would have done to another person.  If Benitez doesn’t challenge for the title this season you know and I do that the tone of a lot of his admirers will change and he will be at best a few bad results away from the chop.  But if he does make a challenge then at least another season should be given to try and achieve it.  Which really is between a few months and maybe a season and half more than you are saying and not 49 years more!   

The difference is that people don’t want to really pile sh*t loads of pressure on him at this stage not only does he deserve better, but the media would quadruple that and before anyone can blink everything will go belly-up.   And we will be left in the hands of Hyypia! 

So while Benitez is the boss he will have my full support

He has my full support, as do (unfortunately) Hicks and Gillett. Anybody connected with Liverpool Football Club has my full support to succeed, whether I like them or not. There's nothing I want more than to see Liverpool raise the Premiership with Rafael Benitez as manager, but if we don't then things need to be looked at. I'm not one who's blinded and afraid to actually say what's happening. I don't look for excuses, I simply state the truth and that is we're too inconsistant. I won't say it has NOTHING to do with money, because money can buy you a better quailty of player, but likewise I won't sit here and think it's all rosey and tap the lads on the back for coming fourth and say "it's alright lads this is the best you can do when we don't spend as much"



You want to bridge the gap with our money rich rivals by signing players from the lower leagues players.  But don’t want to give them the time to settle in?

I didn't say I wanted us to buy lower league players, I said I'd rather we bought lower league players than third rate no marks from Hamburg or Leece (two randomly picked clubs before people moan we haven't bought from those two) because like it or not they are probably of better quality. There's plenty of quality in the lower leagues, it's just top sides are afraid to take a punt on them.

I couldn't care less about Ferguson. His first seven years don't have the slighest bit of importantce for Liverpool Football Club. I'll even use one of the favourite phrases off here "things aren't like that anymore" See these things work both ways.



If Benitez doesn’t challenge for the title this season you know and I do that the tone of a lot of his admirers will change and he will be at best a few bad results away from the chop.  But if he does make a challenge then at least another season should be given to try and achieve it. 

OK so what's classed as a challenge? One point behind on April 1st, lose our remaining four/five league games and end ten or more points behind. Is that a challenge? I'm not looking for a scrap here, just curious as what people define as a challenge. Also as you've already stated, people will ultimately be calling for his head if we're out of the title race by Christmas then their tune will change again when we go on and win the European Cup in Rome. (against Real Madrid if anyone fancies a bet) Fans are fickle. I love Rafa Benitez as like I've already said he has my full support and I really want him more than any other manager to succeed. I'll will him along every step and when we win all four this year my tune will change. I'm just as fickle as the next. I'm an optimistic fan, one of the reasons why I don't buy into the arguements. I know we don't have open cheque books and Benitez doesn't have twenty years experince of the British game behind him but I remain optimistic. The way some carry on, it's like you've given up already and already have the excuses there and waiting. I know we don't have them things so they don't worry me, I remain upbeat and my trust in Rafa Benitez is he'll overcome them. I remain optimistic that we can win the league without outspending Chelsea/United. I remain optimistic despite Wenger/Ferguson having years of more experince of the Premiership.

BUT the reason I consider this year as a MUST to win the league is because Benitez arrived with a "five year plan". It wasn't a five year plan to come fourth because any tom, dick or harry could do that with Liverpool lets be honest, it was a five year plan to win the league. So it is a MUST.

No disrespect mate and i know what you are saying but, Hicks and Gillette have your full support. You are insane to have 1% of your being respect them atall.

Why oh why did you have to throw them two bas**rds in with Raffa . Your post made sense actualy but you tarnished it by associating there names with our club,

I hate the tw*ts so much they shouldnt be even mentioned when talking about an honourable gentlemen like Raffa. Please say your on a wind up no self respecting liverpool fan would support them pair of liars, Thieves , there gobshites

I've had a backseat on this topic for a while because there has generally been a good debate.

However... Dunlop I tend to agree with some of your points and theories, but sometimes I do think to myself, is this lad with us?

How in the world could you have full support to the Yanks if they are dragging us down?  So you're also in favor of Rick Parry as our CEO?  Wake up and smell those Coffee beans.

I'd actually be interested though how you would get on as our Manager.  You seem to bring an approach that is very unique.

I can't be arsed typing out a huge reply so hello, welcome to the forum.  & Try not to make too many enemies. 

I'll just explain meself here. I DON'T WANT those two F***ing yanks at this club more than anyone else does but while they are here I hope they succeed because they are associated with Liverpool Football Club. I want them to build the new stadium, I want them to fund more transfers and give their entire support to players and manager.

I can't stand them, I hate the pair of them as well as Rick Parry but while they are connected with our club I want them to succeed. I know it's hard to understand but if they're in any capatitcy connected to this club I want them to succeed. Obviously the club would succeed more without them, but they are here and unfortunately it looks like they're here for the foreseeable future so I want them to succeed because it will mean Liverpool Football Club and that's what's important to me.

Mate you are one big contradiction I cant be arsed quoting the whereabouts of your many contradicting theories. When you say your old man harped on about the glory years for 17 years, I will make the assumption that you are 17. Enough said, no offence to any young respected lads on here i.e. Court, Croucinho and lil Cisse i think to name a few.

None taken

"I won't say it has NOTHING to do with money, because money can buy you a better quailty of player"


Thank god for that!







 "I'd rather we bought lower league players than third rate no marks from Hamburg or Leece (two randomly picked clubs before people moan we haven't bought from those two) because like it or not they are probably of better quality. There's plenty of quality in the lower leagues, it's just top sides are afraid to take a punt on them. "


Do you agree that in Insua, Plessis, Nemeth, Hobbs, Spearing, San Jose, Pachecho...etc - we have some good prospects for the future.  Does it have to be from the English league?


For me we have to be in with a shout until April for it to be a good challenge probably something on the lines of matching Arsenals previous season.  I would consider that as long as we are within 6 points by April it can be considered as a challenge.  As that would be a big improvement from recent years.  I still think deep down that this is going to be our season!

Fergy situation has no significance to Liverpool it is the approach and is an example that paid reward.  The fierciest rivals use each others systems and approaches if it has been proven successful in all walks of life especially in the commercial world.

I can understand where the lad Liddle is coming from as it F***ing hurts watching the mancs win the prem, and he does make some good points.
Only some mind you.

I think his heart is in the right place regarding LFC as he wants what is best for our club. Like we al do .

But his choice of words and they way he expresses himself on a keyboard are most prob different the way they would come out if you were talking to him at a match or in a boozer.

Thats my take on the lad anyway

kenny yes I think we have plenty of good prospects in the reserves and even in the U18's. We also have good prospects in the first team, Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Mascherano, Lucas, Babel and Torres all have their best years ahead of them which can only be good for Liverpool. There's plenty of promise at Liverpool Football Club right now but these players need to be given a go for them to realise their promise. There's no point in having the best teenagers in the game if by the age of 22 they've been sold. Hopefully three or four can actually make the step up this year, I doubt any will be first team regulars this year, but there's certainly better reserve players than there is in our first team squad.

Again though Kenny, are you saying as long as we are within six points by the start of April yet end up twelve to fifteen points behind you'll consider it a challenge?

The Ferguson thing still holds no significance for Liverpool Football Club if you ask me.

(p.s. cheers redhead)