Direct action against the owners now. Take Part!

it is an intellectual war, we need to outsmart them, not out muscle them. I know what you mean, the more the people who demonstrate, the more media and attention we'll get. If it's well coordinated under SOS or the sort, I don't think it will be a problem.

Could the fans representative ask for a meeting with the holiday guy? talk to him man to man?

Has anyone had a reply yet :

Well, we have a pre-season on 15th July, am I right? So, instead of bringing the usual flags and banner, why not we bring any get out Yanks or whatsoever banners?
I think they will not leave that easy because they know no matter how much we protested and force them to get out, we still go to see the matches and they will profit from that! I know this will sound a bit harsh but let's try not to go and watch them on that 15th July instead?I know it's hard but if this is the last effort we could do, why not give it a try?

mate, no one is asking to start a war, stress PEACEFUL demonstration. just outside the branch, without vandalizing public or private property, have some signs and sing as we always do, that would be it!

Bollocks, lets just burn the RBS building to the ground.

Show those G20 crusties how to do the job F***ing properly!

(There may be some sarcasm in this post).

Your small print is not small enough,

it can still be read.

I have just penned this letter and sent it recorded delivery (adressee only) to Mr. Holiday at RBS, I don't expect for one moment to recieve a reply.

Sir
I feel compelled to write this letter to you out of the shear rage, that I and countless others Liverpool fans harbour for two of your business associates, namely Messrs Hicks and Gillett. The present two share holders and unworthy custodians of Liverpool Football Club.

Without your organisations active assistance and financial support these two flagrantly dishonest and corrupt individuals could not continue their unwelcome presence at our club. Their tenure cannot continue without RBS granting them an extension to their present loan facility, of this fact you are no doubt well aware.

The business case from RBS prospective is, as I see it quite simple. An extension period of six months to their present arrangement with you would generate upward of say £16 million in revenue over the proposed period. This gain would then have to offset against the extremely hostile, negative and acrimonious perception towards your organisation, that would be generated by upwards of a million staunch and loyal Liverpool fans in this country.  This is without even considering your profile with the millions of LFC supports throughout the rest of the world, heaping more controversy on your already weak and sullied public profile.

The cessation of the loan facilities with your bank in July would have the affect of cutting of their air supply and forcing them into immediate meaningful negotiation with the few remaining interested parties still out there. Thus forcing them to sell under what would undoubtedly be “fire sale” conditions. Up until this point Mr. Hick has baited prospective buyers with totally unrealistic speculative valuations, and in his eyes you are now rewarding him for his shenanigans with further financial support. Now is the perfect time to force his hand, by coming out publicly and stating that a further extension to their existing loan will not be granted.

If after me stating my plea, you do decide to continue to support these two individuals, I for one will take every opportunity that is presented to me to “bad mouth” your organisation in the most vitriolic fashion you can imagine.
Please take some time to research the sustained campaign that has been waged for the last two decades by LFC supporters and many other football fans against a certain “Red Top” and its former Editor. Maybe then you will have some idea as to what lies ahead, and how our intended actions will impact on your retail banking division.

Mr. Holiday sir, maybe you don’t, but then again maybe you do understand that supporting my beloved club is a way of life for me, and two previous generations of my family. For me to stand idly by whilst these two “chancer’s” push our football club over the financial precipice and into a Leeds United type Armageddon is simply not an option, ably assisted of course by the financial muscle and business acumen of the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Yours faithfully

Good letter that neil.

Anyone who makes the effort to write personally deserves credit.

Nice sentiments but I really can't imagine RBS will be remotely interested in anything we have to say. They will simply crunch the numbers and make a decision based on what will make them the most money with the least risk.

Most likely they will refinance as no bank in their right mind would want to own and operate a football club.

The only hope might be if RBS KNEW that there was a new owner waiting in the wings to take over...but even then, RBS would want top dollar so I just can't see them pulling the plug on our American "friends" just yet...it just wouldn't make sense. RBS will likely just up the interest rate, charge a fat fee and say "business as usual, thanks very much".

But i could be wrong....

That is probably the best letter I read Neil.

Top stuff I hope it gets looked in to.

It would be nice to know, who Richard Holliday, is a supporter of. He may have a hidden agender 

He may have a hidden agenda 

He most definitely has! TOO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE IN AS SHORTER PERIOD AS POSSIBLE!
regardless of the consequences!

Neill

That was a extremely well written letter, even better than mine.  I do hope you get a reply.

I have just penned this letter and sent it recorded delivery (adressee only) to Mr. Holiday at RBS, I don't expect for one moment to receive a reply.

Sir
I feel compelled to write this letter to you out of the shear rage, that I and countless others Liverpool fans harbour for two of your business associates, namely Messrs Hicks and Gillette. The present two share holders and unworthy custodians of Liverpool Football Club.

Without your organisations active assistance and financial support these two flagrantly dishonest and corrupt individuals could not continue their unwelcome presence at our club. Their tenure cannot continue without RBS granting them an extension to their present loan facility, of this fact you are no doubt well aware.

The business case from RBS prospective is, as I see it quite simple. An extension period of six months to their present arrangement with you would generate upward of say £16 million in revenue over the proposed period. This gain would then have to offset against the extremely hostile, negative and acrimonious perception towards your organisation, that would be generated by upwards of a million staunch and loyal Liverpool fans in this country.  This is without even considering your profile with the millions of LFC supports throughout the rest of the world, heaping more controversy on your already weak and sullied public profile.

The cessation of the loan facilities with your bank in July would have the affect of cutting of their air supply and forcing them into immediate meaningful negotiation with the few remaining interested parties still out there. Thus forcing them to sell under what would undoubtedly be “fire sale” conditions. Up until this point Mr. Hick has baited prospective buyers with totally unrealistic speculative valuations, and in his eyes you are now rewarding him for his shenanigans with further financial support. Now is the perfect time to force his hand, by coming out publicly and stating that a further extension to their existing loan will not be granted.

If after me stating my plea, you do decide to continue to support these two individuals, I for one will take every opportunity that is presented to me to “bad mouth” your organisation in the most vitriolic fashion you can imagine.
Please take some time to research the sustained campaign that has been waged for the last two decades by LFC supporters and many other football fans against a certain “Red Top” and its former Editor. Maybe then you will have some idea as to what lies ahead, and how our intended actions will impact on your retail banking division.

Mr. Holiday sir, maybe you don’t, but then again maybe you do understand that supporting my beloved club is a way of life for me, and two previous generations of my family. For me to stand idly by whilst these two “chancer’s” push our football club over the financial precipice and into a Leeds United type Armageddon is simply not an option, ably assisted of course by the financial muscle and business acumen of the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Yours faithfully

A very well written letter but as you say I doubt whether you will get a reply mate.
LFC has been taken out of the hands of LFC fans.
The Banks/Agents and greedy owners have taken over and do not care a toss about the genuine fans!!

Anyone else just got this e-mail or is it just me?

Thank you for your email expressing concern about RBS' banking arrangements with Liverpool FC and it current owners. We are aware of the strength of feeling of a number of fans on this matter and have corresponded with many during the course of the past year or so.

Perhaps I can start by putting RBS relationship with Liverpool FC in context. RBS is the main banker to the Club including all of its operating accounts, cash management, online banking, automated payments, and credit card processing to facilitate ticket sales and retail merchandising.  We also provide a credit facility to support the Club’s working capital requirements and a letter of credit facility to facilitate the purchase of players from non-Premiership Clubs, along with a loan facility for design, planning and other preparatory work for the proposed new stadium at Stanley Park. We have set out to establish a long term relationship with the Club, and we look forward to this continuing for many years to come.

We also lent money to the Club’s parent, Kop Football Limited, so that it could repay debt which was on the balance sheet of the Club at the time of its acquisition by George Gillett and Tom Hicks. This is the only portion of Kop Football’s bank debt for which the Club is legally responsible. We took great care when making our original loan in early 2007 and when refinancing it last January to distinguish between obligations of the Club, primarily those outlined above, and obligations of its parent company, the latter being secured by personal guarantees and collateral from the owners and a pledge of the shares they own in the Club. As a result the Club does not suffer the burden of debt implied by a lot of the recent press reports and, in our view and that of the executive management of the Club, it is financially healthy and able to service comfortably its debt obligations from cash flow generated by its playing and commercial activities.  It is in our commercial interest to support the Club in the manner described above so that it can continue to perform successfully on and off the pitch.

As far as the Government is concerned, they have been very clear that they do not wish to exercise day to day control over RBS or make commercial decisions for us. Indeed they set up an independent body, UKFI, to oversee the Government’s shareholding in RBS, so matters such as strategy and governance can be agreed, while they leave commercially related matters to us.

RBS attaches a great deal of value to being associated with Liverpool FC. I hope my comments reassures you as to the strength and depth of our relationship with the Club and that we will endeavour to contribute to its long term health and success.

Kind Regards,


Roger Lowry

I think they're making out that if the club got into trouble and were unable to continue making interest repayments, that we would not be responsible for the entirity of the loans taken out, but just the debt that was on the club at the time Gillett and Hicks took over (a figure I don't have off-hand, but nowhere near the £350+ million we've been talking about).

Does anyone know the ins and outs of the deal when the debt was put in the name of Kop Football Ltd, because as far as I was aware the club was reponsible for the debt as a result of this? I'm not a financial wiz, and if anyone knows better than me could they please have a look at the above e-mail to let me know.

It would be some small comfort to know that the majority of this sum is not on our back. That being said of course, if the owners went bust then we'd still probably be up for grabs to anyone with the available cash at the time, so the situation is still far from reassuring.

Bloody hell Ayrton you git just spent ages lining up that one

Fairly sure the debt was in the region of £90-100 million thats if you believe the news.

Ayrton I got that mail too.

At least I'm proud that RBS gave us a good response - rather than saying nothing but just keeping their mouths shut. Even though the response is standard.

Bloody hell Ayrton you git just spent ages lining up that one

I take it you got the same one then?

Fairly sure the debt was in the region of £90-100 million thats if you believe the news.

OK, like I say I'm not a financial counsellor so bear with me, but does this mean (presuming the e-mail is correct :), that if everything went tits up, Gillett and Hicks would be responsible for all but £90-100 million of the outstanding debt, and that we would have to find that much in cash?

I don't know if it's good news or not. It makes things look less colossal, but the idea of someone winning the Euromillions being able to buy us is still scary! 

All speculation, of course, but I'd hope some group with a bit more financial muscle would be willing to snap us up at that price.

OK, like I say I'm not a financial counsellor so bear with me, but does this mean (presuming the e-mail is correct :), that if everything went tits up, Gillett and Hicks would be responsible for all but £90-100 million of the outstanding debt, and that we would have to find that much in cash?

Thats how I read it

I want my letter, still waiting. As for the debt on Kop holdings, at the time it was set up I seem to remember the figure being 140 mill, I wouldn't swear by it though......

Can anyone tell me what the is company flotation is all about? I read it somewhere here

http://www.digitallook.com/companyresearch/atoz/LSE_l.htm

Remember it's not a speculation, but i want to know what the meaning is...

I'm not sure whether any of you received this but here's a reply I got.

RBS & Liverpool FC‏
From:    ~ Public Affairs (Public.Affairs@rbs.co.uk)   
Sent:    Thursday, 25 Jun, 2009 9: 57 PM
To:    ~ Public Affairs (Public.Affairs@rbs.co.uk)

Thank you for your email expressing concern about RBS' banking arrangements with Liverpool FC and it current owners. We are aware of the strength of feeling of a number of fans on this matter and have corresponded with many during the course of the past year or so.

Perhaps I can start by putting RBS relationship with Liverpool FC in context. RBS is the main banker to the Club including all of its operating accounts, cash management, online banking, automated payments, and credit card processing to facilitate ticket sales and retail merchandising.  We also provide a credit facility to support the Club’s working capital requirements and a letter of credit facility to facilitate the purchase of players from non-Premiership Clubs, along with a loan facility for design, planning and other preparatory work for the proposed new stadium at Stanley Park. We have set out to establish a long term relationship with the Club, and we look forward to this continuing for many years to come.

We also lent money to the Club’s parent, Kop Football Limited, so that it could repay debt which was on the balance sheet of the Club at the time of its acquisition by George Gillett and Tom Hicks. This is the only portion of Kop Football’s bank debt for which the Club is legally responsible. We took great care when making our original loan in early 2007 and when refinancing it last January to distinguish between obligations of the Club, primarily those outlined above, and obligations of its parent company, the latter being secured by personal guarantees and collateral from the owners and a pledge of the shares they own in the Club. As a result the Club does not suffer the burden of debt implied by a lot of the recent press reports and, in our view and that of the executive management of the Club, it is financially healthy and able to service comfortably its debt obligations from cash flow generated by its playing and commercial activities.  It is in our commercial interest to support the Club in the manner described above so that it can continue to perform successfully on and off the pitch.

As far as the Government is concerned, they have been very clear that they do not wish to exercise day to day control over RBS or make commercial decisions for us. Indeed they set up an independent body, UKFI, to oversee the Government’s shareholding in RBS, so matters such as strategy and governance can be agreed, while they leave commercially related matters to us.

RBS attaches a great deal of value to being associated with Liverpool FC. I hope my comments reassures you as to the strength and depth of our relationship with the Club and that we will endeavour to contribute to its long term health and success.

Kind Regards,


Roger Lowry
Head of Group Public Affairs
Royal Bank of Scotland Group

280 Bishopsgate
London
EC2M 4RB

Me too !!   so what they're saying is that G & H are not responsiible to them ?