Is it Rafa or the players??

The pressure on football managers today must be immense! I do think the problems are to do with the players and to do with Rafa and his management people,we as fans get frustrated and angry at lack of results and poor commital from certain players,and rightly so ! it does make you wonder however if there is disharmony in the dressing room which would lead to poor team spirit,Rafa gets the blame for signing poor or lesser players ,shouldn't the talent scouts get amention in this? after all they recommend players to buy so the problems are deeper than first thought ,issues with players performance,Rafa,talent scouts ,and team spirit .

Hi Red Trooper
Thank for your view that this is a good topic because I was in two minds whether to put it up for discussion as I don't like questioning Rafa tactical decisions and am unsure whether its the players or his decision's?
LFC (and the fans) have always prided themselves on keeping internal wranglings in house and let our football speak for its self !!
Yet the 2 American owners (sorry jokers) have betrayed our clubs fine tradition and are somewhat bemused at the LFC fans reaction at their ownership skills.
To my mind it was Parry that sold the club down the river, did we not learn from the debacle at Man Utd, I remember the fans chanting to the Man Utd fans in the 4th round of the FA Cup in 2006 the Bruce Springsteen song "Sold to the USA" and how we laughed never realising it would come back to haunt us!!
Simply put we cannot afford to allow LFC to spin tail out of control and I am of the opinion that we have no choice this season other that to see if Rafa (and more importantly the players) can salvage something from this season.

Good topic this one ! personally I think it is both Rafa and the players,the confidence factor starts at the very top of the club for me and filters down,if Rafa has no confidence in his bosses then the players will have no confidence ,for me a few players are just going through the motions and not giving their all ,this can't carry on otherwise we will be holding up the league !we need different gameplans to stop silly goals going in for a start otherwise our attacking players have to drop back and defend so we play catch up football .the present squad we have ,on paper, should be enough to be challenging for honours and I feel sure if Aquilani had not been injured and started the season we may have had more options .

We find ourselves in this mess due to a number of things mainly down to Rafa and his wheeling and dealing in the last few years , pissing Alonso off hawking him around Europe to the highest bidder , blowing his summer budget on Drossena/ keane , binning keane off after 6 months And dossena was desperate to get back to Italy before the ink on his signing on form was dry , then we come to our embarassing owners who have conned us good and proper and been caught out by financial meltdown , Rafa has now found himself in this situation now were the frustration of the fans being directed at him and not just the owners and it starting to get to him knowing he's not bombproof after all , I have heard from a good source that he has been offered  10/12 m to walk  .

We find ourselves in this mess due to a number of things mainly down to Rafa and his wheeling and dealing in the last few years , pissing Alonso off hawking him around Europe to the highest bidder , blowing his summer budget on Drossena/ keane , binning keane off after 6 months And dossena was desperate to get back to Italy before the ink on his signing on form was dry , then we come to our embarassing owners who have conned us good and proper and been caught out by financial meltdown , Rafa has now found himself in this situation now were the frustration of the fans being directed at him and not just the owners and it starting to get to him knowing he's not bombproof after all , I have heard from a good source that he has been offered  10/12 m to walk  .

10/12 million ? thats more than our transfer budget ! be strange if we could find money like this now when it wasn't available before the season .....i think a lot of people would walk for that sort of money

But, we're not other fans though and I certainly don't want to be compared with clueless gobs***e mancs or hypocritcal tw*ts like Arsenal or Chelsea fans.

It's called supporting your club through thick and thin and togetherness, something I was taught as a child.

When Shankly took over he wanted to build togetherness. Something referred to as "The Liverpool Way." one of the reasons the media hate us and will continue to stick the knife in, they have slagged Rafa since day one in 2004 and now know the only way Rafa will leave is if the whole of Anfield turn on him.

I won't be doing their bidding!



 

i see your point but there's a difference between supporting ur club through thick and thin and ignoring bad managerial decisions, or moreover, a lack of good ones

don't get me wrong, i'm completely aware of what rafa's done for the club and i think he made a couple of top signings at the beginning of the season, of which i'm sure he would have made a lot more if but for the lack of funds

i'm not suggesting we turn on rafa, just object to tactics that obviously aren't working, however that may be possible

i consider myself a true liverpool fan and i'd still support them if we were in the same position as a team such as portsmouth, something i can't say for a lot of man u, chelsea and arsenal fans

but at the end of the day, none of us want to see liverpool in the bottom half of the table

actually he quoted an appearance stat from ssn

Nail on the head Gareth, anyone coming onto the forum quoting SSN and the muppets they employ is on a piss take and quite honestly should be fu**ed off at the earliest opportunity.
Their theory is based on biased assumption and posts connected to their views can only be seen in the same light.  

Actually he quoted an appearance stat from ssn, not a journalistic piece. He said 69 appearances in 4 years. Hes been slated for quoting an unreliable source but no one has produced a shred of evidence to show its incorrect from a supposedly reliable source. Until its disproved hes not out of order in my book. Hes quoting statistics not opinionated  drivel..

We find ourselves in this mess due to a number of things mainly down to Rafa and his wheeling and dealing in the last few years , pissing Alonso off hawking him around Europe to the highest bidder , blowing his summer budget on Drossena/ keane , binning keane off after 6 months And dossena was desperate to get back to Italy before the ink on his signing on form was dry , then we come to our embarassing owners who have conned us good and proper and been caught out by financial meltdown , Rafa has now found himself in this situation now were the frustration of the fans being directed at him and not just the owners and it starting to get to him knowing he's not bombproof after all , I have heard from a good source that he has been offered  10/12 m to walk  .

Rafas obviously changed the club for the better. Without doubt hes bought a lot of good players with the money hes had along with some stinkers. its been argued that he hasnt had the money to buy the players he wanted which is a problem for sure. Unfortunately with the money he has had hes done pretty terribly when buying ur mid budget player and has gone through about 40-50 of these types in 5 years. So either with little money he cant pick a player or he cant develop an average player. Either way its a chink in his armour that probably wouldnt be noticed if he had 100 million to spend but on our budget hes gonna have to get more out of less like moyes and o'neill.

looking at their squads and the money spent theyve dont way better than Rafa in that mid budget range and have achieved consistent top 6 finishes and one CL spot with tiny budgets compared to ours. SO either theyre better at spotting a player or better at developing these kinds of players.Untl our financial situation changes i think 5 years of history is enough time to realise that Rafa has brought us as far as he can with the current financial restrictions. SO either we can get new owners and investment to test Rafas big spending ability or we can try to get a martin o neill type to work with smaller resources and try to win something with nothing.

So alot of players would include reina,agger,skrtl,johnson,aurelio,insua,kuyt,masch,aquilani,torres and not to mention the reserves and the youth at the academy.Open your eyes rafa had improved us all over the pitch and off it.
Bet you would love to see "King Klinsman" in charge.

Skrtel, Aurelio, Insua, Mascha and Kuyt I'd get rid of.

I am not talking about the reserves. Unless you mean Itandje and co.

I would bring in Klinsmann and Iain Dowie as Assistant Manager.

Shabbadoo -> Garth Crooks

I would bring in Klinsmann and Iain Dowie as Assistant Manager.

F**k me are you on shrooms ?

Skrtel, Aurelio, Insua, Mascha and Kuyt I'd get rid of.

I am not talking about the reserves. Unless you mean Itandje and co.

I would bring in Klinsmann and Iain Dowie as Assistant Manager.

Shabbadoo -> Garth Crooks

Get rid of Mascherano, hire Klinsmann and Iain Dowie, now I know you're on a piss-take

Come on own up time, bluenose or manc tw*t?

Because no Liverpool fan I know would get shut of Mascherano.

Get rid of Mascherano, hire Klinsmann and Iain Dowie, now I know you're on a piss-take!

Obviously a Manc or a Bitter.

Obviously a Manc or a Bitter.

My bet is a manc.

Rafa's had a some boss results against these pricks in recent seasons and no-one like's to be embarrassed at home 4-1 FACTAFUKINGMUNDO

I always like to tell my Manc frineds tommorow's lottery numbers;

2-1 4-1 2-0 18 and 5

actually he quoted an appearance stat from ssn
Actually he quoted an appearance stat from ssn, not a journalistic piece. He said 69 appearances in 4 years. Hes been slated for quoting an unreliable source but no one has produced a shred of evidence to show its incorrect from a supposedly reliable source. Until its disproved hes not out of order in my book. Hes quoting statistics not opinionated  drivel..

I am not doing a "guess the source" topic here what I am pointing out is that the individual uses his sources however questionable, to promote his own agenda.

Actually he quoted an appearance stat from ssn, not a journalistic piece. He said 69 appearances in 4 years. Hes been slated for quoting an unreliable source but no one has produced a shred of evidence to show its incorrect from a supposedly reliable source. Until its disproved hes not out of order in my book. Hes quoting statistics not opinionated  drivel..

I didn't slag him for that, I saw that myself before going the game against Fiorentina last week, what I asked was WHY Aquilani had only made 69 appearances in four years.

But then again you can use stats to suit any argument!

Klinsmann/Dowie? What the F**k you on about? Just remind us who dont know what have they won between them?

DOWIE! The guy who left crystal palace to move to charlton so he can be closer to home! PLease.

DOWIE!!! LMAO wasn't he Shearer's right hand man at Newcastle? F**k me I'd die if this was even a serious idea. And Klinsmann - good player, complete nutcase as a manager. We will go nowhere with him

Aquilami has played 109 games in 7 years for Roma!

Dowie, Klinsmann and Wise -> Dream Team

Aquilami has played 109 games in 7 years for Roma!

Dowie, Klinsmann and Wise -> Dream Team

Dowie, Klinsmann and Wise -> How not to run a football club.

Few sandwiches short of a picnic basket -> Torres09

Anyway...

I predicted the club will finish 7th or 8th, when they do. I expect an aplogy from most of you.

Anyway...

I predicted the club will finish 7th or 8th, when they do. I expect an aplogy from most of you.

What the F**k is an aplogy?

You mean apology you thick inbred tw*t!

Aquilami has played 109 games in 7 years for Roma!

Dowie, Klinsmann and Wise -> Dream Team

Torres09 - > Coffin

Anyway...

I predicted the club will finish 7th or 8th, when they do. I expect an aplogy from most of you.

The only 'aplogy' your getting is from your mother who let you slip through her 7 fingers for dropping your inbred head on the floor while you were young.

Anyway...

I predicted the club will finish 7th or 8th, when they do. I expect an aplogy from most of you.

Hows about I just pin you down and fart in your mouth, it will be much more entertaining.