Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

This from someone who backed Hodgson to get us in the top 4!!!! forgive me if i take no notice of someone with such limited knowledge who plays the "you must not be a Liverpool fan card"....

You are forgiven for taking no notice.

So don't go with all that bullshit about there being 70 other goals throughout the team when you don't include Suarez getting the goals because he was involved, by either setting it up directly or being involved in the build up play for a good 20+ goals.

I'm not forgetting them, I'm not including them. The players scored 70 other goals last season, that can't be disputed. Almost everyone helped out at some point. Skrtel was the league's highest scoring defender!! So our title challenge was a team effort, not a solo run.

You're right about the title challenge, but at least our first season in the Champions League under Rafa didn't result in us crashing out with our tails between our legs having been embarrassed in the group stage.

Embarrassed over finishing third in a group as third seeds, with Real Madrid in it? I don't think we had that to deal with in the group in 2004. If we were embarrassed though, at least we got further than the apparantly insurmountable hurdle of Athletic Bilbao.

(Mourinho) had 1 year and 4 top players and why did he come third ?

Probably because we had something to do with it.

no point arguing pal, its futile, but the majority of Liverpool fans i know that support rafa are the ones who were starved of sucess and think 2005 was the turning point...bollox 12 of the players who actually walked on the pitch Geds signings.

I'm not looking to change his fan's views, they won't change, nor will mine. But the league championship is the most important competition we play in, and he failed to win it, having had more than enough chances to do so. 

Bob won league titles, Bill won league titles, Joe won league titles, Kenny won league titles for this club. Brendan has already achieved what was asked of him by the board, and almost won us the league way ahead of schedule. If he had, the euphoria would have trumped Istanbul multiple times over.

no point arguing pal, its futile, hate to throw the kids argument into the mix, but the majority of Liverpool fans i know that support rafa are the ones who were starved of sucess and think 2005 was the turning point...bollox 12 of the players who actually walked on the pitch Geds signings. Been supporting for as long as can remember and we have not been well run or managed for years and years.

Went into LIVERPOOL CITY CENTRE the other day and into the club shop, compared to United Chelsea and Arsenal and now even city it looks like a F***ing corner shop its F***ing embarassing its a disgrace it really is, we have been left hanging by our owners and management for many a year, none since daglish can hold their heads up.

Shut up you F***ing dickhead, Rafa can hold his head high after what happened in Istanbul.

Bellend!

Bob won league titles, Bill won league titles, Joe won league titles, Kenny won league titles for this club. Brendan has already achieved what was asked of him by the board, and almost won us the league way ahead of schedule. If he had, the euphoria would have trumped Istanbul multiple times over.

Not even close you F***ing divvy.

And Brendan is now rated higher than Rafa even though Brendan still hasn't won a F***ing TROPHY yet!

Another F***ing dickhead comment.

For as much as we like to say "If Rafa had the money of Chelsea/Real/Bayern/etc..." I've always been curious why he's never gotten a job with virtually limitless spending. I don't understand. Rafa's clearly a great manager and master tactician. Does he have a super bad reputation or something?

Shut up you f**king dickhead, Rafa can hold his head high after what happened in Istanbul.

Bellend!

Ahh and the very parody of an Huyton internet warrior raises his head 

Ahh and the very parody of an Huyton internet warrior raises his head 

Stick to the city centre lad and ffs steer clear of an Huyton in case one of those parodies does a warrior on you.

Embarrassed over finishing third in a group as third seeds, with Real Madrid in it? I don't think we had that to deal with in the group in 2004. If we were embarrassed though, at least we got further than the apparantly insurmountable hurdle of Athletic Bilbao.

Probably because we had something to do with it.

I'm not looking to change his fan's views, they won't change, nor will mine. But the league championship is the most important competition we play in, and he failed to win it, having had more than enough chances to do so. 

Bob won league titles, Bill won league titles, Joe won league titles, Kenny won league titles for this club. Brendan has already achieved what was asked of him by the board, and almost won us the league way ahead of schedule. If he had, the euphoria

Athletic Bilbao? So now Brendan has a better CL record than Rafa too?
Mourinho finished third because he hadn't spent enough yet and Brendan has won exactly what in his career to date.

You disappoint again

For as much as we like to say "If Rafa had the money of Chelsea/Real/Bayern/etc..." I've always been curious why he's never gotten a job with virtually limitless spending. I don't understand. Rafa's clearly a great manager and master tactician. Does he have a super bad reputation or something?

He knocked back Madrid twice. He went to Chelsea but the fans hated him. That leave City, Barca, PSG and Bayern. Barca appoint from within. Juventus wanted him too. I think he likes a challenge. Inter was the only place that probably was a bad choice for him but he did not know that at the time.

Ahh and the very parody of an Huyton internet warrior raises his head 

are we comparing Rafa and BR? If so it can't be on titles, that is a non-starter.
It must be on style and unfortunately that is subjective. We could apply the same

With Mourinho and Rafa we can argue on titles but then we have to look at the relative spending and existing squads and resources of the teams they managed.

Of course we can apply the spend argument to Rafa and BR but they both have managed liverpool and I think at this stage BR has spent more.

Or we could just say to you and your many avatars, the reason why girls avoid you at parties is not because you're too clever for them it's because you're creepy.

are we comparing Rafa and BR? If so it can't be on titles, that is a non-starter.
It must be on style and unfortunately that is subjective. We could apply the same

With Mourinho and Rafa we can argue on titles but then we have to look at the relative spending and existing squads and resources of the teams they managed.

Of course we can apply the spend argument to Rafa and BR but they both have managed liverpool and I think at this stage BR has spent more.

Or we could just say to you and your many avatars, the reason why girls avoid you at parties is not because you're too clever for them it's because you're creepy.

Many avatars? Care to explain this nonsense.

Many avatars? Care to explain this nonsense.

We're waiting!

I'm not forgetting them, I'm not including them.

Because it severely weakens your futile argument.

Embarrassed over finishing third in a group as third seeds, with Real Madrid in it? I don't think we had that to deal with in the group in 2004. If we were embarrassed though, at least we got further than the apparantly insurmountable hurdle of Athletic Bilbao.

You mention Real Madrid, fair point, we were never going to finish above them, no one would have within the whole competition I doubt. Funny how you don't mention Basel or Ludogorets though and third seeds or not, to not record more than 1 win in the 4 games against them (not to mention that win being a last second penalty) is a disgrace and if you are content with that then you are even more of an idiot than we thought, or an even bigger WUM.

And to be honest I would say this years group was easier than in 2004 because we had just spent £100+ mill so should easily have recorded at least 4 wins but instead we got battered in our performance in all 6 games. In 04 we had a team that contained Rivaldo, a team that was a finalist the year before and a fairly strong (at the time) La Liga team.
What's Bilbao got to do with anything?

Brendan has already achieved what was asked of him by the board, and almost won us the league way ahead of schedule. If he had, the euphoria would have trumped Istanbul multiple times over.

Yes he did achieve more than expected by the board last season, as was the case when we won in Istanbul you tool. How can you give praise to Brendan and name him among greats for not winning a trophy but finishing higher than expected but yet you miss out Rafa who achieved more than what was expected and won the biggest club competition?! Flaming hypocrite you are lad.

Ahh and the very parody of an Huyton internet warrior raises his head 

Yeah is that why you went crying about it!!

Rafa

Not half bad.

An honourable man.

"He came from sunny Spain to make us great again".

He knocked back Madrid twice. He went to Chelsea but the fans hated him. That leave City, Barca, PSG and Bayern. Barca appoint from within. Juventus wanted him too. I think he likes a challenge. Inter was the only place that probably was a bad choice for him but he did not know that at the time.

That's true, but Rafa turned down Real when he was still managing us though. He loved it here and wouldn't have left for anyone. Chelsea was a temporary position and one he knew he wouldn't get permanently so he used them, rightfully so, as a stepping stone.

That's true, but Rafa turned down Real when he was still managing us though. He loved it here and wouldn't have left for anyone. Chelsea was a temporary position and one he knew he wouldn't get permanently so he used them, rightfully so, as a stepping stone.

I get what you are saying I really do, but what would you say if Stevie went to Chelsea. Should be no different for a manager. It's not like he was skint and needed the money.

I get what you are saying I really do, but what would you say if Stevie went to Chelsea. Should be no different for a manager. It's not like he was skint and needed the money.

Not sure the situations are comparable to be honest. When Stevie was close to signing with Chelsea he was at the top of his game. When Rafa went to Chelsea he was looking to reestablish his reputation as a great manager after having been fired (unfairly IMO) from two different clubs in like a 6 month span.

That's true, but Rafa turned down Real when he was still managing us though. He loved it here and wouldn't have left for anyone. Chelsea was a temporary position and one he knew he wouldn't get permanently so he used them, rightfully so, as a stepping stone.

Yes but the opportunity to sign for the richest clubs is not straight forward. Mourinho will only sign for these clubs, same with Ancelotti and Guardiola too I suspect. They are fighting for top dog status and choose teams who ironically will win trophies anyway, it's there job not to F**k it up. Mourinho having won only 1 league in past 4 seasons with chelsea and madrid cannot afford to lose it this year. Guardiola the same, he needs the CL. Look at Pellegrini, if he wins it this year will people finally admit money makes all the difference and put rafas achievements into perspective.

Yes but the opportunity to sign for the richest clubs is not straight forward. Mourinho will only sign for these clubs, same with Ancelotti and Guardiola too I suspect. They are fighting for top dog status and choose teams who ironically will win trophies anyway, it's there job not to f**k it up. Mourinho having won only 1 league in past 4 seasons with chelsea and madrid cannot afford to lose it this year. Guardiola the same, he needs the CL. Look at Pellegrini, if he wins it this year will people finally admit money makes all the difference and put rafas achievements into perspective.

I think Rafa's much more sentimental than those managers. He found his home at Liverpool, literally and spiritually. If he had his way, he'd probably manage us until the day he dies.

But my point was I wonder if other clubs view him differently than we do, if they think he'd be too much of a rabble-rouser to their hierarchy, etc.

I get what you are saying I really do, but what would you say if Stevie went to Chelsea. Should be no different for a manager. It's not like he was skint and needed the money.

You disagreed with us signing Sturridge then?

are we comparing Rafa and BR? If so it can't be on titles, that is a non-starter.

Actually as it turns out, we can.

Rodgers: 0 EPL titles
Benitez: 0 EPL titles

With Mourinho and Rafa we can argue on titles but then we have to look at the relative spending and existing squads and resources of the teams they managed.

Of course we can apply the spend argument to Rafa and BR but they both have managed liverpool and I think at this stage BR has spent more.

Last year we showed that you don't need to throw vast amounts of money at a side to mount a title challenge. In the past 10 years, Rafa has spent millions and millions and millions and millions of cash on players here and elsewhere. He still wants more, but at some point you have to make do with what you have, as Rodgers has and does. He can't, so eventually he pays the price.

Because it severely weakens your argument.

It was never part of the argument. My argument was, we scored 70-odd other goals last season, so the title challenge was a team effort. Assists and set up play are a separate issue.

You mention Real Madrid, fair point, we were never going to finish above them, no one would have within the whole competition I doubt. Funny how you don't mention Basel or Ludogorets though and third seeds or not, to not record more than 1 win in the 4 games against them (not to mention that win being a last second penalty) is a disgrace and if you are content with that then you are even more of an idiot than we thought, or an even bigger WUM.

And to be honest I would say this years group was easier than in 2004 because we had just spent £100+ mill so should easily have recorded at least 4 wins but instead we got battered in our performance in all 6 games.

I never said I was content with the way the group panned out. I never indicated otherwise. With no European football in 2 of the past 5 years and as third seeds, I expected a tough group and that's what we got. We knew that Basle would be tricky away and stubborn here, from our own and other club's experiences against them, and they were. Spending the amount we spent doesn't mean the group was going to be any easier, and entitled us to absolutely nothing.