NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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/snip/

It was FSG who fu**ed up by sanctioning wanton spending by their Director of Football - and Kenny you reckon they should be praised for sacking their man - I reckon they shouldn't escape criticism for putting us in this position in the first place. You want us to heap praise on your lot for trying (as you see it) to rectify their mistakes; really? The buck stops as ever at the top.

As it stands I've had enough of you, your condescension and your mocking wind ups. You are a c**t of the highest order.

I've corrected things for you as you ran away from the substantive point I put to you in the previous post.

Yes Commoli was certainly at fault - but as pointed out elsewhere - we didn't sign the players to 8 year contracts or pay vastly over the odds for them according to the market rates at the time. The real problem was that they just weren't good enough - and Kenny, as acknowledged by everybody, was responsible for identifying and bringing them to the club and should therefore take the lions share of the responsibility.

It's interesting to see your esteemed opinion is that the owners backed "wanton spending" by the management team. I don't have time to have a look through your posting history but I very much doubt you were urging FSG to be cautious with handing that much money over to Kenny at the time.

As for the last part of your post - charming! I'm would be more than happy to treat you on the same basis however, unlike you, I at least have the courage of my convictions. It's the difference between a c**t and a p***y. 

I wouldn't be sure if John Henry and Fsg think they are to be honest.

I'm sure you're right, I don't however include them in 'us'. 'Us' for me are the fans, which they clearly aren't.

what is it that FSG own?. Anfield's  bricks and mortar players contracts media and advertising rights etc.But that isn't Liverpool. Liverpool is all about the emotional input of the fans as well and even more importantly than the financial one. Its us the fans that are the real Liverpool and its our generation and past and future generations that matter not some here today gone tomorrow chancers..
The next time we are sold we must have a huge slice of fan ownership or we will just end up going around in circles.
At this point in our history I have never been so dismayed at events both on and off the field and can anyone say hand on heart that they feel positive about this season.

At this point in our history I have never been so dismayed at events both on and off the field and can anyone say hand on heart that they feel positive about this season.

I feel positive about this season.  Much will still depend on how we replace Suarez and Skrtel, and how quickly we can get those replacements integrated into the team, but I do think that we will finish with closer to 70 points this season, and we may well make a run at cracking back into the top 4.  You obviously disagree, and you are entitled to your own opinion. 

Also, I was more dismayed under H&G and Roy when we were on the brink of administration and far too close to the relegation places before FSG took over.

pay vastly over the odds for them according to the market rates at the time.

Errrr ok.

£20m for Downing, £16m for Henderson, £35m for Carroll.

Kenny didn't negotiate the fee's, yet you're in here trying to drop it all on him again.

Lets play Devils advocate here for a moment.

Lets presume Kenny wasn't sacked and the squad wasn't ripped apart (again), do you think Kenny may have built on his signings and had a better season than Rodgers this campaign ?

I certainly do.

Errrr ok.

£20m for Downing, £16m for Henderson, £35m for Carroll.

Kenny didn't negotiate the fee's, yet you're in here trying to drop it all on him again.

Lets play Devils advocate here for a moment.

Lets presume Kenny wasn't sacked and the squad wasn't ripped apart (again), do you think Kenny may have built on his signings and had a better season than Rodgers this campaign ?

I certainly do.

Can we once and for all agree Kenny give the ok to sign these players but Comoli's job was to agree the fees with Ayres.Or is this not the case.
Henderson and Downing played significant roles last season in Brendan's side and Carrol was an aboration on deadline day and a huge mistake financially.

Can we once and for all agree Kenny give the ok to sign these players

I don't get the big deal, it's comparable to what Brendan has signed this summer. We're not in Europe, so the really big players aren't going to sign for us, the same as what happened to Kenny, we got those players, cos other players we were linked with went to teams that had qualified for Europe.

Errrr ok.

£20m for Downing, £16m for Henderson, £35m for Carroll.

Kenny didn't negotiate the fee's, yet you're in here trying to drop it all on him again.

Lets play Devils advocate here for a moment.

Lets presume Kenny wasn't sacked and the squad wasn't ripped apart (again), do you think Kenny may have built on his signings and had a better season than Rodgers this campaign ?

I certainly do.

No - that's not the point I was making.

As I've said above Commoli was certainly to blame - but the lions share of the responsibility was Kenny's.

Commoli negotiated the fees - true. We may have overpaid a bit compared to the market rate - true. But take the examples you've quoted - Spurs had a 30 mil bid turned down for AC shortly before ours succeeded. Downing was hot property as the best English winger and a standout performer for Villa. Maybe he wasn't worth 20 mil but Villa would have been disappointed not to get 15 for him.

But the main problem wasnt that we paid an extra 5 million here or there - the problem was that the signings were atrocious for us. They didn't perform individually or as a Coe give to the level we needed. The main problem was identifying and bringing them here in the first place - and for that Kenny has to take the responsibility - just as he would have done if they and performed brilliantly and won the league.


Now you ask hypothetically if he MAY have done better this season than Brendan.

He MAY well have since its impossible to tell. But looking at the evidence - the longer he was in charge the worse the team got. The signings he made were the worst culprits and needed clearing out. Apart from Skrtel - none of the players in the team approached the best form they had shown for either their national teams, their previous clubs or our club under a different manager.

So the likelihood is we would have done worse this season.

We were looking at signing Matt Jarvis - MAYbe he would have been a bigger hit than Coutinho but it seems quite unlikely doesn't it?

Errrr ok.

£20m for Downing, £16m for Henderson, £35m for Carroll.

Kenny didn't negotiate the fee's, yet you're in here trying to drop it all on him again.

Lets play Devils advocate here for a moment.

Lets presume Kenny wasn't sacked and the squad wasn't ripped apart (again), do you think Kenny may have built on his signings and had a better season than Rodgers this campaign ?

I certainly do.

If we're playing devil's advocate, their were signs it could go either way, but I'd have preferred we'd given him the chance.

Credit where it is due and a very strong statement from JW tonight.

It's the type of talk I expect from an owner of this club and if he really means it and stands by it then I have to applaud it.

Credit where it is due and a very strong statement from JW tonight.

It's the type of talk I expect from an owner of this club and if he really means it and stands by it then I have to applaud it.

Question becomes though....why doesn't he communicate this way more often? Would go a long way with supporters I would think.

Like you said, we'll see if he stands by it. And we'll see if we still are going to bring in those couple of first team "type" players before the window closes.

Credit where it is due and a very strong statement from JW tonight.

It's the type of talk I expect from an owner of this club and if he really means it and stands by it then I have to applaud it.

What's he said?

What's he said?

Check out the Suarez transfer thread mate. It's in there. Put his foot down....right on Arsenal (and everyone else's) neck.

£20m for Downing, £16m for Henderson, £35m for Carroll.

I'm by no means trying to justify Henderson's transfer fee here, but did we not only pay around £10million up front for him and the rest was either over a period of time and performance related?

I'm by no means trying to justify Henderson's transfer fee here, but did we not only pay around £10million up front for him and the rest was either over a period of time and performance related?

Nitpicking here, but to be honest I've never seen us as having overpaid for Hendo. £16mill for the U21 captain, young English player, Sunderlands homegrown player and bags of potential (in my eyes)....16mill is about the going rate for a player like that in today's market IMO.

Nitpicking here, but to be honest I've never seen us as having overpaid for Hendo. £16mill for the U21 captain, young English player, Sunderlands homegrown player and bags of potential (in my eyes)....16mill is about the going rate for a player like that in today's market IMO.

Neither have I.

I think in years to come it will be seen as money well spent.

Neither have I.

I think in years to come it will ne seen as money well spent.

I think Hendo is a bit underrated. He is about an average player who just needs to make that step up to get to the next level. I still see some potential in him.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/boston-red-sox-second-baseman-5683151
now that's some amount of money to buy loyalty , I wondered where the transfer moolahs were gone .

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/boston-red-sox-second-baseman-5683151
now that's some amount of money to buy loyalty , I wondered where the transfer moolahs were gone .

Signing bonus: $1 million
2014: $12.5 million
2015: $12.5 million
2016: $13 million
2017: $15 million
2018: $16 million
2019: $15 million
2020: $13 million
2021: $12 million

That adds up to $110 million for eight seasons, although Pedroia was already under contract for $10 million in 2014 and $11 million in 2015 before tearing his old contract up as part of this extension. It’s also an interesting structure, as there aren’t many long-term deals in which the salaries are smaller at the end.

Signing bonus: $1 million
2014: $12.5 million
2015: $12.5 million
2016: $13 million
2017: $15 million
2018: $16 million
2019: $15 million
2020: $13 million
2021: $12 million

That adds up to $110 million for eight seasons, although Pedroia was already under contract for $10 million in 2014 and $11 million in 2015 before tearing his old contract up as part of this extension. It’s also an interesting structure, as there aren’t many long-term deals in which the salaries are smaller at the end.

they're not too worried about his age are they.

they're not too worried about his age are they.

Good healthy baseballer is good until late 30's

Good healthy baseballer is good until late 30's

This. Baseball is completely different age wise than football.

This. Baseball is completely different age wise than football.

Carragher had one of his best seasons at 35
Gerrard is still world class at 33
Lampard is playing the best football of his life at 37
Giggs is still one of the main and best midfielders at 40
Ferdinand is undroppable at 36
Van Der Sar was world class at 40
Zola was the best at Chelsea at 38

A bunch of others I've forgotten

I'm not saying they don't play longer in Baseball, I'm saying there's not THAT much of a difference age wise. Surely not enough to account for the contrast in monies spent