Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

Hypothetically, if he can't do that in his time at the club when it really is time to judge, then maybe he might have taken us as far as he can go and the next logical step would be a manager of similar ilk with trophy pedigree - agreeing with your Swansea example. I don't know when I'll judge Brendan on when he has to deliver a trophy - that depends on future context of situations.

Totally agree on "context" [mitigating circumstances] SOAG.

What really frustrates me (if that's the right word) is...

Brendan is a good coach (as good as there is, in my opinion) and yet...  some Liverpool fans can't see that - which is bad enough but... worse still - some Liverpool fans who actually do see it refuse to acknowledge that, without support (change in transfer policy from FSG, to give him what, he sees, as vital for us to grow even more), Brendan can't fulfil some really massive potential.

Anyhow - it's been nice chatting. I'm off to cook. Later.

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers is confident his players are in good shape ahead of a crucial Premier League run-in.

The Reds have already played 46 matches this season due to Champions League, League Cup and FA Cup campaigns in addition to league fixtures - but Rodgers is hopeful an eight-day break will have counteracted the arduous schedule.

Ahead of Monday night's trip to Swansea, he said: "Our last performance against Blackburn was at the end of a real tough period of games.

"I've seen all the numbers and all the statistics on it and, physically, it was the lowest we have been for this season. Now we're re-energised and refreshed mentally and physically.

"We go into a run of games now, starting with Swansea, and we feel we can go in and push on in terms of our level of performance again. We know it will be tough.

"It's that period of the season where you taper your training. You don't need to be as long in your training and preparation as the players have got a real good level of fitness, so it's more explosive and more intensive, but in shorter blocks.

"The players have been brilliant this week. They're looking really sharp, looking really confident and we just want to continue with our sequence of performances and good results."

Looking ahead to the battle for Champions League football, the Northern Irishman added: "I think it's going to be very tight, of course.

"We've rejoined the race for that in the last three months and everything counts in the games.

"We just need to ensure we continue to be aggressive in our game and give everything that we have between now and the end of the season.

"The points total is all very close and very tight but we just have to continue playing and working as hard as we have done. If you're a team that wants to do well, you have to be able to have that character, resolve and mentality to win away from home.

"We've got great counter-attack speed when the space does open up and we've got technically-gifted players who can play in the spaces.

"We're in a good moment, but we respect it'll be a very difficult game at Swansea." 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/9760734/liverpool-manager-brendan-rodgers-confident-ahead-of-run-in

Quite interesting to see that physically we were low after that series of games. It's good the lads have had a break - it did look like they needed it and the performance alone against Blackburn showed it.

Another interesting insight I thought was the way he talks about tapering the training down, during this time of year/season.

The pressure is on now trying to chase the front pack of four. Tonight will be a test as well, given how the other teams have already played, so there is a bit of added pressure there - be sure the Mancs will have their one and only eye on tonight's fixture. If we win tonight, I the shift in pressure will be felt on them more come next week.

I don't normally agree with stats, unless of course they back up my own impression of things then I'm all over the buggers. My eyes told me that we were slower and ran less, pressed nowhere near as hard etc etc against Blackburn, so these stats which back it up are absolutely excellent, right on the money infact.

Is it deliberate that we seem to up the ante after half time?

Some really lacklustre first half performances, yet they seem to have more energy in the second half?

This is a risky strategy if true or maybe it's just that the other team just isn't as fit perhaps?

Definitely not as a kamikaze as last season in the first half. We could have won the league on first halves alone.

Seem a bit more concerned about controlling the game from the off now which is fair enough. Sometimes it does get overdone like today and we are overly passive.

Hope we bring it from the first whistle against the manc pricks Sunday.

I think this these last few months were starting to see the evolution of Rodgers in game management, his team talks and substitutions are starting to have more of an effect on games than they have done previously, has any one else noticed that ?

What the F**k BBC?

What the F**k BBC?

 

What the f**k BBC?

Why is Miliband ruling him out?!

Quality change last night to match up with their diamond. Gerrard back in the holding role with the energy of Hendo and Allen in front of him was a masterstroke.

That 'difference' is an interesting take on things mate. One I hadn't given too much thought to, if I'm being honest.

In terms of our 'philosophy', I regard it in the sense of the coaching that happens on the training field. I cannot for the life of me remember the articles I've read but there were pretty detailed analysis on the drills that take place at Melwood under Brendan and the state of the art fitness schedules - all very 21st Century stuff.

Gents, this is an excellent debate and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through it. No name calling, no knee-jerk comments, just well thought out arguments - hats off.

My thoughts on it are, like yours, undecided. There are many examples of success at clubs where only one manager isn't responsible for a fruitful period in a club's history. Barcelona had Cruyf who introduced an almost brand new style of playing football and won many things during his time. You could argue that Rijkaard simply carried on the style and Guardiola perfected it, both being immensely successful with it. Who deserves the credit? In this case, I think they all do. We had our very own version with Shanks building the club from almost the ashes, but had limited success with it. Bob won everything before him by building on the "philosophy" Shanks instilled and most credit Shanks and Bob equally for all those trophies.

I think I am leaning towards Sun of a Gun's very good chess analogy. Once a philosophy is instilled in the club and players, the owners simply select managers that suit that philosophy and the managers in turn select players that implement it, whereas a tactician would probably be successful wherever they go, Rafa and Mourinho being excellent examples. This cycle probably doesn't change unless there is a strctural change in the club, such as new owners. In that sense, you have the credit the manager that invents or instills a certain philosophy as much as the manager that win trophies with it.

Gents, this is an excellent debate and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through it. No name calling, no knee-jerk comments, just well thought out arguments - hats off.

My thoughts on it are, like yours, undecided. There are many examples of success at clubs where only one manager isn't responsible for a fruitful period in a club's history. Barcelona had Cruyf who introduced an almost brand new style of playing football and won many things during his time. You could argue that Rijkaard simply carried on the style and Guardiola perfected it, both being immensely successful with it. Who deserves the credit? In this case, I think they all do. We had our very own version with Shanks building the club from almost the ashes, but had limited success with it. Bob won everything before him by building on the "philosophy" Shanks instilled and most credit Shanks and Bob equally for all those trophies.

I think I am leaning towards Sun of a Gun's very good chess analogy. Once a philosophy is instilled in the club and players, the owners simply select managers that suit that philosophy and the managers in turn select players that implement it, whereas a tactician would probably be successful wherever they go, Rafa and Mourinho being excellent examples. This cycle probably doesn't change unless there is a strctural change in the club, such as new owners. In that sense, you have the credit the manager that invents or instills a certain philosophy as much as the manager that win trophies with it.

There's been too much chopping and changing for my liking from previous owners, and there actually wasn't any long term plans from neither Moores or Hicks & Gillett.

What I most admire from FSG is their willingness to look at the bigger picture and actually have a grand master plan as to how we play football and how the game should be approached in regards to the entire football structure (where senior to youth level is seamlessly connected). In that sense, it's easier for the owners to find the appropriate managers who are simple a continuation of the work previous managers have done.

Just in reply to bad boy bubby's previous post questioning what we do if - down the years - this 'philosophy' 'grand plan' etc fails to produce trophies. I personally think that as long as we are behind the financial superpowers, we should continue to persist with this. But I also believe this is the only method by which it is possible for clubs with less financial muscle to outsmart the financial superpowers. Dortmund are the most recent example with a philosophy. But it's also happened in England - take Arsenal. Wenger's 3 title successes makes them, for me, far and away the most impressive league champions in the Premier League era. Modern methods, expert recruitment, good football and expert coaching from Wenger resulted in them outsmarting the high spending Man Utd (and higher spenders like Liverpool and Newcastle at the time). Wenger hasn't won barely anything in the last 10 years so maybe it is time for the logical decision for him to step down and tells us he might just be past his sell by date and is actually more an indictment on the manager rather than the club philosophy, but his legacy will live on and there is no doubt that whoever takes over at Arsenal will be left in a superb position with a great coaching setup, a youth system that in fairness is beginning to bear fruit, and financially strong - just compare Arsenal now compared to the rustic, old fashioned club that was in danger of slipping into years of mid table obscurity. And it's this model that FSG look to and it's one that is very exciting I think.

Such a healthy state the club is in makes it attractive to the very best managers in the world today - so I have no doubt that Arsenal are going to be a club to seriously keep an eye on in terms of future rivalry. I think if you asked fans of today back in the mid 90s who they would have loved to manage their club - whether it's a Liverpool fan or Newcastle fan - I think the argument for Wenger would be very strong over a superb tactician. Coaching the living sh*t out of players with modern methods goes a long long way towards clubs future prospects I think.

The boss is boss.

nuff said.

Just in reply to bad boy bubby's previous post questioning what we do if - down the years - this 'philosophy' 'grand plan' etc fails to produce trophies.  I personally think that as long as we are behind the financial superpowers, we should continue to persist with this.

Just to be clear (before I reply in any depth) - you are now talking about a 'financial' philosophy and not Brendan's footballing philosophy or what he says we need if we are to continue growing: is that correct?

Because, if you are, then that's a discussion which is, maybe, better placed in the FSG thread mate.

However and saying as this is the 'Brendan Thread'; I will say that I am, (like most fans, reckon), in whole-hearted agreement with the boss on this one. 

What the manager has done in terms of galvanising what looked at the time like a fairly ramshackle bunch of footballers into a winning machine, is nothing short of astonishing. I'm now finding myself really looking forward not only to the end of this season, but to next season as well. If we can keep all our better players (of which obviously Sterling and Henderson are two, AND Lucas) and add one or two extras (a top class fullback or two wouldn't go amiss, striker cover etc) I think we will go very close to winning the title next season. Amazing effort from the boss.

What the manager has done in terms of galvanising what looked at the time like a fairly ramshackle bunch of footballers into a winning machine, is nothing short of astonishing. I'm now finding myself really looking forward not only to the end of this season, but to next season as well. If we can keep all our better players (of which obviously Sterling and Henderson are two, AND Lucas) and add one or two extras (a top class fullback or two wouldn't go amiss, striker cover etc) I think we will go very close to winning the title next season. Amazing effort from the boss.

Well put 'mick, and I second this.

Seems those who were calling for his head aren't really interested in posting when we win.
Now, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a bit of criticism, but BR's record in the 2nd half of seasons is very good, and perhaps more should have taken that on board.
I'm not going to lie and say I was never worried, as at times I had a few doubts myself, but you're spot on that the turnaround has been astounding and full credit has to go to the Boss.

What the manager has done in terms of galvanising what looked at the time like a fairly ramshackle bunch of footballers into a winning machine, is nothing short of astonishing. I'm now finding myself really looking forward not only to the end of this season, but to next season as well. If we can keep all our better players (of which obviously Sterling and Henderson are two, AND Lucas) and add one or two extras (a top class fullback or two wouldn't go amiss, striker cover etc) I think we will go very close to winning the title next season. Amazing effort from the boss.

Mick there were enough of us pointing out his after Xmas record for the previous two season and that we were confident he'd turn it around.  What he needs to do now of course is improve our August to December form and we're Champions.

Mick there were enough of us pointing out his after Xmas record for the previous two season and that we were confident he'd turn it around.  What he needs to do now of course is improve our August to December form and we're Champions.

A settled squad without too many new faces should help him do this.
Fingers crossed anyway 

Yeah I wasn't really giving it the "I told you so" bit, simply because I didn't (tell anyone so that is). I thought we'd improve second half of the season (lets face it we couldn't have got much worse) but I'm as surprised as anybody that we have morphed into a team which can not only win with lovely football, but we can also scrape home with the ugliest bastardest win you'll ever see. I thought the defence would improve (see above) but I didn't seriously expect us to keep six clean sheets on the bounce away from home. 

Mixed in with our form over the last month or two has been some truly outstanding stats and individual performances. For me though it's our ability to hang in on games when we're up against it, to grind it out and wait our moment that really stands out. From nowhere really, we've emerged as being a bloody good side, and the manager must take his share of the huge credit which is due.

A settled squad without too many new faces should help him do this.
Fingers crossed anyway 

Absolutely mate.

Just to be clear (before I reply in any depth) - you are now talking about a 'financial' philosophy and not Brendan's footballing philosophy or what he says we need if we are to continue growing: is that correct?

Because, if you are, then that's a discussion which is, maybe, better placed in the FSG thread mate.

However and saying as this is the 'Brendan Thread'; I will say that I am, (like most fans, reckon), in whole-hearted agreement with the boss on this one. 

Talking about both really, much of this model is emphasising youth and coaching them well rather than spending buckets loads of money.

I think it's incredibly sad that some supporters disregard the achievements brought about by our past managers,
Whether the manager be Phil Taylor or indeed Kenny Dalglish,
Since we have been founded in the year 1892 there have been good times and great times and of course the not so good times, all through the decades tho good and bad we've had managers who were better than others, some may have had the occasional success, some may have won jack,
But whoever they have been the simple fact that they managed LFC should hold some respect to all of us who are genuine supporters,

We all want success that's a given, but at times in our history that success just hasn't happened, in those times prior to Shanks our success was limited, but that's not to say we should just disregard the managers and players of that era,

I'm obviously to young to list any specifics perhaps Billy1 could elaborate being one of our elder statesmen,

I'm also too young to remember the Shankly years but I've read about them and seen old footage of his time at LFC, I've also read 'Red or Dead' by David Peace, a must read if you want to learn about the 'philosophy' of that great man, and my hero Bill Shankly,

This is the man who built the Liverpool of today, he built our foundations, he made it all possible, was followed by the most successful manager in the history of British football, 'Sir' Bob Paisley, then there was Uncle Joe Fagan,

I could go on and on, for me anyone who disregards the abilities of past managers is not only a slur to that man it's a slur on everyone before him, especially when we are talking about a man such as Kenny Dalglish, it was a f***in disgrace the way he was treated by our owners, they showed a total disrespect to that man after what he had done both on and of the pitch,

Not only did they disrespect Kenny they also disrespected all those before him, it was the way they went about it that wrankles with me, and something that will stay with me forever,

The younger generation of LFC fans should bear in mind that football back then is a totally different entity to what it is now, it's still X1 V X1,  it's still the same round bag of air that's kicked about, the goals are the same size, and it's still played on a big f***in green field, the only difference is the amount of money and the tv coverage, and of course what is considered to be a success,

The old farts like me will say Trophies & Titles are everything, you young uns will see 4th as success,

As yet Brendan hasn't delivered, but he will, he will bring the title, it's been far far to long a wait, but it's coming, but we need to be patient, we need the patience of those Liverpool fans had when Shanks first walked through the door in 1959 he brought us the title,63/64 and the first FA cup '64/65' and our first European trophy, the UEFA cup '72/73', it took Shanks 3 1/2 seasons to bring a title, Brendan is in his second full season, you do the maths ?

I hate it when managers are compared with one or another, different strokes for different folks and all that, I have respect for all our past managers being a LFC supporter, but there are exceptions of course, old rubber face springs to mind, otherwise known as the Baffoon in charge of Engurland.


IBWT

YNWA

Billy in my time the only other manager who brought success to the club was George Kay winning the league in 1947.he also took us to a F.A.
Cup final against Arsenal in 1950 which we sadly lost. That was the final where George Kay made a big mistake by dropping Bob Paisley after Bob had scored against Everton in the semi final. When George Kay retired Don Welsh took over or should I say took us down to the old second division. Phil Taylor took over as temporary manager and then got appointed full time. Next was Bill Shankly and as we all know he woke the sleeping giant
                   So Brendan Rodgers has to win cups to go down in history as one of our successful managers, I give George Kay as an example of a manager who is never mentioned even though he won the league. George might of had more success with players like Billy Liddell, Bob Paisley, Phil Taylor, Bill Jones, Albert Stubbins, if the second world war had not taken 6 years of their football lives.

Talking about both really, much of this model is emphasising youth and coaching them well rather than spending buckets loads of money.

Ah... that's fine then. I'm still with Brendan and what he said, on that subject. 

Hopefully the owners will take heed of him.