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      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

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      Brian78
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #598: Oct 10, 2015 12:23:17 am
      Agree there is no guarantee he'll play the 4-2-3-1 mate so that in itself will be interesting to see next weekend.

      On the CB I think it's Sakho plus one other and I'd love to see him give Gomez a run as frok what I've seen he is going to be a very good player and although I've been a fan of Skrtel over the years this season I think he has too many mistakes in him and still hasn't quite got that control in his game you'd expect from a player with his experience.



      The great thing here is he could literally make lovern a new signing and rejuvenate skrtel. But tell ye what I'd love to see a punt on young Gomez. I said in the Klopp thread I'd love to see him given a go as defensive midfielder but I'd equally love to see the gaffer say here ye go son I trust you at the heart of my defence go be yourself. He looks a natural to me
      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #599: Oct 10, 2015 12:26:51 am
      The great thing here is he could literally make lovern a new signing and rejuvenate skrtel. But tell ye what I'd love to see a punt on young Gomez. I said in the Klopp thread I'd love to see him given a go as defensive midfielder but I'd equally love to see the gaffer say here ye go son I trust you at the heart of my defence go be yourself. He looks a natural to me


      I can see it more with Lovren than Skrtel if I'm honest Bri purely down to style and as Luke indicated Skrtel's need to drop deep all the time is totally the opposite to how Klopp likes his defenders to play and Lovren being a more front foot CB could see him get a new lease of life.

      How ironic would it be that one of the players we so associate with Brendan and him favouring gets a new lease of life under Jürgen?

      I'm not convinced it'll happen as Lovren's mistakes, if they kept happening, would make Klopp blow a fuse.

      Totally agree on Gomez and if I was the manager I'd start him at the Spurs.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #600: Oct 10, 2015 12:34:41 am
      I can see it more with Lovren than Skrtel if I'm honest Bri purely down to style and as Luke indicated Skrtel's need to drop deep all the time is totally the opposite to how Klopp likes his defenders to play and Lovren being a more front foot CB could see him get a new lease of life.

      How ironic would it be that one of the players we so associate with Brendan and him favouring gets a new lease of life under Jürgen?

      I'm not convinced it'll happen as Lovren's mistakes, if they kept happening, would make Klopp blow a fuse.

      Totally agree on Gomez and if I was the manager I'd start him at the Spurs.

      Agreed Si (on Gomez).

      Honestly don't think Lovren has much of a chance under Klopp. I think he'll absolutely fall in love with Sakho, the intensity, his bravery (in terms of possession as well as defensively). For me, I think Sakho has a chance of being named captain under Klopp.

      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #601: Oct 10, 2015 12:37:56 am
      Agreed Si (on Gomez).

      Honestly don't think Lovren has much of a chance under Klopp. I think he'll absolutely fall in love with Sakho, the intensity, his bravery (in terms of possession as well as defensively). For me, I think Sakho has a chance of being named captain under Klopp.



      Sakho is his guy mate. Totally agree.

      On Lovren I tend to agree and it is a long road back for him if at all but just in terms of style I see Klopp seeing more in Lovren than Skrtel but like I said his uncanny ability to have mistakes in him almost every game will not be tolerated.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #602: Oct 10, 2015 12:39:00 am
      Sakho is his guy mate. Totally agree.

      On Lovren I tend to agree and it is a long road back for him if at all but just in terms of style I see Klopp seeing more in Lovren than Skrtel but like I said is uncanny ability to have mistakes in him almost every game will not be tolerated.

      Yep think that'll prove to be spot on mate.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #603: Oct 10, 2015 10:32:23 am
      Three players will flourish under the new boss.

      Coutinho.
      Firmino.
      Emre Can.

      If they apply themselves. Especially Coutinho.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #604: Oct 10, 2015 11:46:27 am
      Three players will flourish under the new boss.

      Coutinho.
      Firmino.
      Emre Can.

      If they apply themselves. Especially Coutinho.

      Hendo too.
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #605: Oct 10, 2015 03:55:25 pm
      And Ings, Milner, Lallana, Clyne and [maybe] Moreno.

      I also think our CBs will suddenly start to look like decent defenders under Klopp.

      Benteke is the tricky one for me. I do think there will be a place for him though in certain games where the opposition sit in and dont allow us to play the counter press cos there's nothing to counter.
      Swab
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #606: Oct 10, 2015 03:59:33 pm
      Sakho is his guy mate. Totally agree.

      On Lovren I tend to agree and it is a long road back for him if at all but just in terms of style I see Klopp seeing more in Lovren than Skrtel but like I said his uncanny ability to have mistakes in him almost every game will not be tolerated.

      It's not so much the mistakes as how they affect him.

      I mean, he makes a mistake, but then tries so hard to make up for it that his concentration goes, and he ends up totally out of position.

      As a right footer, he should be playing on the right and not F***ing about on the left.
      Muzzman1969
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #607: Oct 10, 2015 04:26:14 pm
      As a right footer, he should be playing on the right and not f**king about on the left.

      I am hoping he will actually play people in their own position - this would surely help to improve the balance of the team.

      I am not expecting wholesale changes for next week except for formation as he does seem to favour a back four.
      lester76
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #608: Oct 10, 2015 06:08:22 pm
      Just hope for no more 3 at the back bollocks, players being positioned correctly, a disciplined defence and some bloody passion, commitment and a never say die approach.
      Not  too much to ask right?
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #609: Oct 10, 2015 07:40:21 pm
      And Ings, Milner, Lallana, Clyne and [maybe] Moreno.

      I also think our CBs will suddenly start to look like decent defenders under Klopp.

      Benteke is the tricky one for me. I do think there will be a place for him though in certain games where the opposition sit in and dont allow us to play the counter press cos there's nothing to counter.

      Based on Klopp's favoured 4-2-3-1 formation with technically strong hard working players and a big striker up top I can see us lining up against Spurs like this...

                          Mignolet

      Clyne      Skrtel       Sakho     Moreno

                     Milner      Lucas

         Sturridge     Coutinho    Lallana

                           Benteke

      bigmick
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #610: Oct 10, 2015 07:42:54 pm
      Based on Klopp's favoured 4-2-3-1 formation with technically strong hard working players and a big striker up top I can see us lining up against Spurs like this...

                          Mignolet

      Clyne      Skrtel       Sakho     Moreno

                     Milner      Lucas

         Sturridge     Firmino    Coutinho

                           Benteke



      Nice line up that, although it wouldn't be my own choice. Many are assuming Klopp will play Firmino, and I guess if he hasn't seen much of us this season there is a chance he will. Hopefully the Brazillian is one of a number of players who will leave his previous displays well behind under the new manager.

      I know absolutely nobody agrees with me, but I've a sneaky hunch Jürgen might surprise everyone and go 4-4-2. I would if it was me anyway.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #611: Oct 10, 2015 07:48:46 pm
      Nice line up that, although it wouldn't be my own choice. Many are assuming Klopp will play Firmino, and I guess if he hasn't seen much of us this season there is a chance he will. Hopefully the Brazillian is one of a number of players who will leave his previous displays well behind under the new manager.

      I know absolutely nobody agrees with me, but I've a sneaky hunch Jürgen might surprise everyone and go 4-4-2. I would if it was me anyway.

      Just saw Firmino may be out still so swapped him for Lallana and moved Cou in to his favoured central position.

      He may also play Milner on the right and play Can in a central midfield role with Stu up top as the lone striker.

      Whichever formation he goes with I'm most interested to see how the players respond. I sense those who don't put in a shift and impress immediately will be quickly dropped as Klopp will not accept passengers in the team.

      waltonl4
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #612: Oct 10, 2015 07:50:48 pm
      Based on Klopp's favoured 4-2-3-1 formation with technically strong hard working players and a big striker up top I can see us lining up against Spurs like this...

                          Mignolet

      Clyne      Skrtel       Sakho     Moreno

                     Milner      Lucas

         Sturridge     Coutinho    Lallana

                           Benteke



      Glad someone has put Lucas in he isnt finished yet this kid just keeps bouncing back they all have a clean sheet
      Brian78
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #613: Oct 10, 2015 08:40:20 pm
      Glad someone has put Lucas in he isnt finished yet this kid just keeps bouncing back they all have a clean sheet

      Can't see a fit Hendo not playing though
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #614: Oct 10, 2015 08:44:18 pm
      Can't see a fit Hendo not playing though

      Agreed, he's made for Klopp.

      Dedicated.
      Work-horse.
      Low self-confidence.
      Better than he actually believes (imo).

      Even without improvement I think Klopp will love him, he's loyal, he never let's the manager down with his words he just needs that fire put in him. I have high hopes for Hendo with Klopp in charge. Through both fear and loyalty he could really empower the lad.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #615: Oct 10, 2015 09:55:15 pm
      Glad someone has put Lucas in he isnt finished yet this kid just keeps bouncing back they all have a clean sheet

      Lucas is a good defensive midfielder with his lack of pace the only thing holding him back from being a great one as it forces him to make a lot of late challenges.

      This is something he will have to iron out as Klopp demands his team never gives away needless fouls so they can win back possession as often as possible. Dortmund were consistently the cleanest team in the Bundesliga under Klopp. Lucas will have to be as his very best consistently to keep his place but I feel Jürgen will bring out the very best from him.

      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #616: Oct 10, 2015 11:00:59 pm
      Lucas is a good defensive midfielder with his lack of pace the only thing holding him back from being a great one as it forces him to make a lot of late challenges.

      This is something he will have to iron out as Klopp demands his team never gives away needless fouls so they can win back possession as often as possible. Dortmund were consistently the cleanest team in the Bundesliga under Klopp. Lucas will have to be as his very best consistently to keep his place but I feel Jürgen will bring out the very best from him.



      True, but also he'll get other people than Lucas making tackles, something our team has severely lacked.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #617: Oct 11, 2015 04:38:59 am
      All being fit, i really think we will look like this:

      Mignolet

      Clyne    Skrtel    Sakho    Moreno

      Hendo    Emre    Milner

      Coutinho

      Firmino    Sturridge

      That midfield has a lot of pressing in it and Firmino will start that pressure really high up the pitch and in his most favourable position.

      My only concern in this side is Moreno. Bless him, he tries his hardest every time, but he can't mark a winger to save his life.

      Also will be interesting to see how he rates and plays Gomez.

      All in all, as much as people don't rate our side, i still maintain we have a highly talented bunch of players that is lacking in some areas but can really hurt an opposition in other areas.

      That midfield and attack could destroy most teams with a bit more guidance. Tactically i think we can get a bit muddled up as we saw under Brendan but someone who can instil a bit more discipline in them - especially Coutinho and Emre who could be anything they want but don't always play the smart pass or shot - we could see that team challenge at the top end of the ladder and put in a deep run in Europe for once.

      Coutinho has all the talent in the world but he can sometimes go quiet, or try too hard, or as we have seen in recent weeks, just hit pot shots from 25+ yards. If Jürgen can make him that wee bit smarter and use his unique ability on the ball to greater affect, we have the best attacking midfielder in the world on our hands. He's someone i would look to build the side around right now. He's very difficult to close down because of the brilliant body movement he has and his one touch passing is immaculate and he backs that up with a shift in defence. 

      Likewise with Emre, he has all the tools but his mind lets him down. A little more knowledge of the game
      and he could be the base of our midfield for a very long time. We are linked to Gundogan now but Emre could be every bit as good as him and better. He is comfortable on the ball, can pick a pass, and has an engine on him but right now he just doesn't have the brain to put in the level of performance required consistently.

      In defence, Jürgen will have to reshape how our midfield works off the ball to help out the backline. I don't have confidence in the mentality of that back five to keep clean sheets constantly. We have too many defenders guilty of ball watching, letting their man go, and just making some stupid errors. As soon as the opposition move the ball about and have someone providing some movement in the final third we get torn apart - especially from left back. With that midfield i put in the team above, we have plenty of energy to be able to help negate the threat of the opposition.

      Looking at the Chelsea side of last season, they displayed everything you need to be successful through their defence. They kept tight and strong in the middle and let their midfield handle threats outside the box and in between the lines. Our defenders have a stupid habit of coming out of their line way too often to shut down an opposition midfielder because our midfield doesn't track a runner and once that back line is broken, it's game over. The opposition has a massive gap in the most dangerous area in the pitch and they'll pick you off.

      So i think Jürgen has a big task to bring this team up to speed tactically with the best teams in the league and Europe. We have the talent to hurt opposition teams but just need that guidance of someone who knows what they're doing to bring it out consistently.

      If he can fix some of these problems, i think we're nailed on for success. But he couldn't have said it better in his first interview - "The first thing, always, maybe in life, you need to have a stable defence."
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #618: Oct 11, 2015 06:47:11 am
      I think he can do a job there as his legs will be Hendo and he is fantastic reader of the play to aanticpiate cutting out the threat. Most of the running will be from the four in front.

      But yeah long term we need a upgrade on Lucas.........Gundogan as a DLPM anyone?   ;D

      I don't think we can afford in Klopp's system to have one midfielder do the running for two which is what we have had to do the past two or three years. It can work in some systems, but I don't think Klopp's is one where it will work.

      4 2 3 1 was his thing I believe at Dortmund. But is that we should expect here? He's a top manager and top managers know how to utilise what they have to play with. Would a 4 2 2 2 or 4 3 1 2 depending on how it's viewed be a goer?

      Mig

      Clyne ? ? Moreno

             Hendo can
         Cou.      Firmino

          Benteke Sturridge


                Mig

      Clyne ? ? Moreno

          Hendo cou can

               Firmino

          Benteke Sturridge

      Genuine width the issue if your full backs can't get forward.

      Intrigued to see what 2 centre halfs he goes with on his debut, as a former centre half and his comment today about the stable defence

      A German football lad did a tweet the other day which basically said that 4-2-3-1 was by far his most used formation, but after that his second most used formation during his time at Dortmund was two up front. I can't see us using a system with two up top with Benteke and Sturridge though. Neither of them are hard enough pressers.

      Agree there is no guarantee he'll play the 4-2-3-1 mate so that in itself will be interesting to see next weekend.

      On the CB I think it's Sakho plus one other and I'd love to see him give Gomez a run as frok what I've seen he is going to be a very good player and although I've been a fan of Skrtel over the years this season I think he has too many mistakes in him and still hasn't quite got that control in his game you'd expect from a player with his experience.



      I think Lovren would be more suited to Klopp's style of play than Skrtel if he manages to cut out the stupid errors like against West Ham.
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #619: Oct 11, 2015 06:56:28 am
      Agreed Si (on Gomez).

      Honestly don't think Lovren has much of a chance under Klopp. I think he'll absolutely fall in love with Sakho, the intensity, his bravery (in terms of possession as well as defensively). For me, I think Sakho has a chance of being named captain under Klopp.




      Why should the captaincy change?

      Three players will flourish under the new boss.

      Coutinho.
      Firmino.
      Emre Can.

      If they apply themselves. Especially Coutinho.

      Why do so many people think Emre Can will flourish under him? Don't see it myself. He's a talented lad, but he lacks any sort of intelligence on the pitch.


      I hope to see something like this when everyone is fit:

      Mignolet; Clyne, Lovren/Gomez, Sakho, Moreno; Henderson, Lucas; Ibe, Firmino, Coutinho; Sturridge.

      If we can get a goalkeeper, partners for Sakho and Henderson, and develop one or two of Ibe/Wilson/Ojo/Kent/Markovic properly, then I think we'll have a really strong team.

      Dortmund were interested in Gomez, Firmino, Origi, and Benteke so it'll be interesting to see what he does with them.
      s@int
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #620: Oct 11, 2015 07:14:33 am
      I don't expect Klopp to make too many changes initially. I think he will play 4 at the back rather than 3 + wingbacks, but apart from that, I think things will appear pretty much the same on the surface. If we do play with a higher back line I expect Lovren to replace Skrtel after a couple of games.

      I think he will play a flexible 4-3-3/4-4-2 initially with Coutinho moving forward or dropping back a little as the situation demands,

                                     Mignolet

      Clyne           Skrtel           Sakho          Morinho

                                   Lucas   

                         Milner     Can (Henderson when fit)

                              Coutinho

                     Sturridge   Benteke

      Over time I think we will see Firminho gradually replacing Benteke to a large extent as we gradually start to play more of a pressing game with just Sturridge as our front runner available for the quick run in behind.(as long as he stays fit anyway)

      Ings may surprise everyone and get more playing time than expected purely on his work rate especially away from home.

      I think that will be about it till Christmas when hopefully we will be adding some genuine quality to what I see as being a hard working team.

      Lallana, Can and Ibe will really have to pull their socks up if they are going to be anything but bit part players, with Can's fitness problems being perhaps the easiest to solve of the three.

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