Midfield - The key to football, why are we getting it wrong?

Midfield

The key to winning or losing any game of football

We can all talk about defensive mistakes, or defenders not looking as good as before or strikers missing chances but for me the game is won and lost in midfield, always has been always will be..

The spine is key to any game but if you dont have a strong midfield you wont win many games, look across history,

Ours..

Under Rafa we sang songs about the best midfield in the world, we had Macherano, Gerrard and Alonso, three players that had all the defensive qualities to protect the back 4 but all the creativity to provide the amunition to win games.. And they could go head to head in a battle if required..

In the past we have had the likes of Lee, Mcdermott, Souness, McMahon, Molby, Smith, Hughes, Wark, Hamman etc etc... With those types we dominated games, they had the lot, its no suprise if i threw the likes of Diao, Biscan, Hutchinson at you you wouldnt have as many favourable memories..

They get it, they create, they protect... They are the fulcrum of any good side... Think Red Star Belgrade in 91 think Savicevic pulling the strings, think Milan of the ilk we played in 05/07 and think of Pirlo and Kaka.. Think of that Golacticos era, would they be the same without Makalele? Even Utd 99, would they have even got to the final without Keane against Juve in the semi..

What im saying is that currently right now our midfield doesnt look strong enough, doesnt look creative enough, is getting bypassed too easily.. We look a soft touch in there, look like we can be bullied, dont have enough hard men to stand up when we are getting overun, to grab the game and say no this is my game, lets win the f**ker..
Now that could be tactics as well, but look at the midfield central options right now..

Lucas.. Love the lad, coming back from a long term injury though, will take time to get back to his best

An ageing Stevie, still lots to offer for me, but wont dictate like he used to do, needs someone to do his running to an extent and need in my opinion to concentrate on doing his work in the attacking third

Shelvey, i do rate him but to be honest doesnt look Liverpool quality on this season

Henderson, as rotation i think a good option, but a bit pretty and well i wouldnt be scared of the lad

Allen, same as Hendo really.. Both can do the same job, needs a tough nut with him

Sahin, lightweight in the league, too much like the two above


They are all a bit too nice, no one in there really to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drive us on.. We need to become harder to beat and that is tactics and players for me.
Just dont see it in this midfield group..

Even go back to the 90s, Redknapp needed Ince to become a better pair.. A fighter, stood up to the oposition

Calling Sahin is a light weight is comical. He was played out of position and still scored goals and assisted them. He was known as the opposite of light weight in Germany.

Calling Sahin is a light weight is comical. He was played out of position and still scored goals and assisted them. He was known as the opposite of light weight in Germany.

Judging on what i have seen here, in this league, a renowned tough league he has looked lightweight.

The lad had done nothing to justify the hype, and obviously is showing nothing in training to force his way in. Either that or his heart isnt in it, either way isnt justifying the hype

Our midfield is out of balance in both experience and quality. Lucas has played himself into that postion but Stevie has always been a difficult choice as his postional quality has always been open to debate,Wide We have a very talented and willing lad in Sterling who has shown fantastic development in his ability to read the game and cover his full back I am completely in awe of this lad.
Allen has yet to impress me so basically we have Lucas and Sterling.Gerrard needs to move outwide or further up and on the left Downing has yet to inspire.
We need to go back to basics and stop letting goals in the mdfield need to man up and protect the back four as well as start both creating and scoring goals they fail on both counts so far.

Judging on what i have seen here, in this league, a renowned tough league he has looked lightweight.

The lad had done nothing to justify the hype, and obviously is showing nothing in training to force his way in. Either that or his heart isnt in it, either way isnt justifying the hype

I really question loan signings at a club like Liverpool.Is that what we need and do these lads really want the RED shirt.

I really question loan signings at a club like Liverpool.Is that what we need and do these lads really want the RED shirt.

Doubt putting on the Red shirt means what is used to Walton, in the end most just want to get paid and I suppose you try and get the quality as well as the desire (Luis) but it's easier said then done.

I have no doubt that when Charlie Adam put on the shirt and went out on the pitch he really wanted that RED shirt, but the quality was not there...balancing act.

We need a powerful mobile midfielder to play in there with Lucas,we are far to easy to play through and away from home especially we need someone who can compete physically in the air and in the tackle and then we can play our football.
If you don't win the midfield you are gonna struggle massively to win games.

Doubt putting on the Red shirt means what is used to Walton, in the end most just want to get paid and I suppose you try and get the quality as well as the desire (Luis) but it's easier said then done.

I have no doubt that when Charlie Adam put on the shirt and went out on the pitch he really wanted that RED shirt, but the quality was not there...balancing act.

We shouldnt have to rely on loan signings at this club we should have sufficient finance and pull to get the right players.

physical presence is needed cattermole was going to sign ideal a nasty piece of work who gets stuck in bellamy had it we really need to have that sort of player, steve mcmahon  did it i know theres players out there walters at stoke aswell i know ill probably get crucified for saying these names but its needed imho

We shouldnt have to rely on loan signings at this club we should have sufficient finance and pull to get the right players.

I don't disagree, I just don't think putting on a Liverpool shirt means what it used to for this generation of players...not just us of course but any of the clubs. It's all about money now, not desire or the club/city.

Yeah, I love Lucas but I miss Masch. I've always been a fan of powerful, quick DMs, like Makelele, or Essien in his prime. Someone that not only gets the ball back, but that is able to bulldoze his way through other midfielders by sheer force of will. Someone to carry the team's standard in midfield. I think Gerrard use to play with that spirit when he was younger, but now he's not that player anymore...

 In modern football, the role of the central midfielder has changed. Equally, the importance of central midfielders while still being there, is there for a different reason. Midfielders who "grab the game by the scruff of the neck" don't exist anymore, not in the physical Sounness type of mould anyway, simply because their mode of playing is outlawed. Central midfielders these days are either chipper inners in terms of being box to box and goal creating/getting, or defensive midfielders out and out. They are expected to keep the ball ticking over, get or make goals. Increasingly though it's attackers and defenders who win you games, NOT central midfielders. Midfielders who score vast numbers of goals Gerrard/Lampard style aren't really around anymore, these days you keep the ball as a prioroty. Attacking midfielders keep it and give it to attackers who score, defensive midfielders stop the opposition from doing the same, but all through the team distribution is king.

Look at the teams at the top of the league. The Mancs haven't really got a midfielder I would go out of my way to get. Carrick sits for them (and crucially, distributes it very well too) while Cleverley does a bit of chipping in in both boxes. While he "chips in" though, he doesn't score or create lots of goals and is a country mile behind say Gerrard as a footballer. Yaya Toure is the exception to any rule and the best central midfielder in the Premiership, but Barry again is an unspectacular but relatively effective sitter. For Chelsea Mikkel or Luis fill in the sitting role, and while Mata is an excellent player and chips in with goals, I would argue he is almost a forward really. For wide midfielders, read wingers who defend. The best example of it in the Premiership and the best at what he does is Valencia at Man Utd. Good and powerful going forwards or backwards, he is an absolute key player for them. We have nobody at the club in the same class I'm afraid.

In the big teams, big players win you matches and quite simply we haven't got enough of them as of now. Who wins the Mancs their games aside from refs? Van Persie and Rooney at one end, Ferdinand and Evans/Vidic at the other. For us we have Suarez at the attacking end who is World class, but NO alternative whatsoever, and two centre halves who have been awful in each of the last few matches where we have come up against a big bully centre forward. THAT is why we don't win enough matches, not because of any midfield disfunctionality.

I would also point out though that IMHO Lucas is a passenger since he came back. He is a mile away from being mobile enough to be effective in the defensive sense right now, and paticularly from a pace point of view he is really labouring. His distribution is actually pretty good, but ultimately he is there to make it harder for the opposition to score goals, and he is being singularly ineffective at that.

your right about yaya toure outstanding player there must be other players like him around he would make any team tick big b***ard aswell

Lucas needs time but what is the alternative Allen hasn't set the world on fire has he.All in all in the cold light of day we look pretty lightweight as a squad ....thanks FSG.

 Another way of looking at our "midfield problems", is to imagine if for example Van Persie played for us rather than Man Utd. Say we played him instead of Downing against Stoke, with exactly the same players in and around him. Would it have made a difference to us? Of course it would, in an attacking sense our play would have been revolutionalised. Similarly, stick Ferdinand and/or Vidic in for our centre halves and there is no way we would have been bullied as we were. I'm not saying our midfield is perfect in any sense, but it's not the main route cause of our problems in my opinion.

the lack of tactical nouse is the main problem, real madrid have a talent attacking team watch them against barcelona they play like the chavs, we have been sussed by every manager now press liverpool higfh they will try pass it out even if the lose it everytime

Another way of looking at our "midfield problems", is to imagine if for example Van Persie played for us rather than Man Utd. Say we played him instead of Downing against Stoke, with exactly the same players in and around him. Would it have made a difference to us? Of course it would, in an attacking sense our play would have been revolutionalised. Similarly, stick Ferdinand and/or Vidic in for our centre halves and there is no way we would have been bullied as we were. I'm not saying our midfield is perfect in any sense, but it's not the main route cause of our problems in my opinion.

back to basics mick defenders HAVE to defend Midfielders HAVE to be able to tackle and pass a ball as well as knock one in now and again and strikers score goals thats how simple football is.

Lucas needs time but what is the alternative Allen hasn't set the world on fire has he.All in all in the cold light of day we look pretty lightweight as a squad ....thanks FSG.

 Lucas does need time mate, but we don't have it and until he gets fit he shouldn't be in the team in my opinion. Allen I think despite people not really taking to him is better in the role than Lucas is right now, and if it was a choice between the two I'd pick the Welshman with no hesitation. Fortunately however it isn't necessarily a choice between the two and contrary to what pretty much the whole of the forum thinks, I'd play our captain in there. Unlike Lucas Stevie is very effective defensively, has the pace and the power to make the challenges when we are under pressure, is good in the air and can also pass it to all corners. Is he better in the roile than Michael Carrick, than Gareth Barry and John Obi Mikkel? Of course he is, and we can't for much longer keep on the one hand slagging him off at every turn and then expecting him to score 20 goals a season from midfield/off the striker.

 Stevie is our best midfielder by a zillion miles, and as such he should play in midfield. If he had been playing the defensive role against Stoke, IMHO we would have been far harder to beat.   

back to basics mick defenders HAVE to defend Midfielders HAVE to be able to tackle and pass a ball as well as knock one in now and again and strikers score goals thats how simple football is.

 Absolutely right mate and at the big teams, that's exactly what happens. At Man Utd, the front players score the goals particularly when they need them, the centre halves stop them. Same at Man City. I know I'll get slagged off for saying this as well, but if we want an out and out attacking midfielder who will score/create goals, we could do worse than get fat Frank. We won't do that of course (and perhaps nor should we), but those who talk of a "Gary Mac" type figure bringing experience and quality to the team ought to think before they type. Would fat Frank get in our team as of today? For me he'd walk into it with bells on. 

Lucas does need time mate, but we don't have it and until he gets fit he shouldn't be in the team in my opinion. Allen I think despite people not really taking to him is better in the role than Lucas is right now, and if it was a choice between the two I'd pick the Welshman with no hesitation. Fortunately however it isn't necessarily a choice between the two and contrary to what pretty much the whole of the forum thinks, I'd play our captain in there. Unlike Lucas Stevie is very effective defensively, has the pace and the power to make the challenges when we are under pressure, is good in the air and can also pass it to all corners. Is he better in the roile than Michael Carrick, than Gareth Barry and John Obi Mikkel? Of course he is, and we can't for much longer keep on the one hand slagging him off at every turn and then expecting him to score 20 goals a season from midfield/off the striker.

 Stevie is our best midfielder by a zillion miles, and as such he should play in midfield. If he had been playing the defensive role against Stoke, IMHO we would have been far harder to beat.   

successive managers have all been reluctant to keep Stevie pegged back in a defensive role becuase his natural instinct is to go forward and he leaves holes  when he does this.
I dont believe however that we are getting anything like the best out of him at present.

Absolutely right mate and at the big teams, that's exactly what happens. At Man Utd, the front players score the goals particularly when they need them, the centre halves stop them. Same at Man City. I know I'll get slagged off for saying this as well, but if we want an out and out attacking midfielder who will score/create goals, we could do worse than get fat Frank. We won't do that of course (and perhaps nor should we), but those who talk of a "Gary Mac" type figure bringing experience and quality to the team ought to think before they type. Would fat Frank get in our team as of today? For me he'd walk into it with bells on. 

But what options do we really have can beggars be choosers?.
I dont know Frank Lampard as a person but just look at his record and try to pull it apart the lad is bullet proof.

fat frank proven but we couldnt afford him, what about a cheeky bid for nolan at west ham

successive managers have all been reluctant to keep Stevie pegged back in a defensive role becuase his natural instinct is to go forward and he leaves holes  when he does this.
I dont believe however that we are getting anything like the best out of him at present.

 I don't think it's because he "leaves holes" mate, I think that's an urban myth which has grown from an interview Rafa gave. The reason successive managers haven't played him there is because they want him to score goals and bail the team out of the sh!te every week at the other end. My argument is that Gerrard won't be able to bail the team out of the sh!te in the attacking sense as often any more, so we might as well get him to do it in the defensive sense. The change is inevitable, we may as well make it now since we have nobody else who is the same class who can perform the role.