Almost end of season Deja Vu?

So we're getting that point of the season, just under 10 games to go, and we're sitting 7 points behind the 4th placed team (Chelsea) having played one game more than them. Chasing a champions league spot which we know is well out of our hands. Even if we win all 9, that doesn't guarantee us 4th place, and that's a huge ask for any team in any league.
 We're seeing the typical articles on the official site and in the Echo, on the BBC etc. with quotes from the manager and players saying stuff like "Champions League place still a possibility" and stuff like that.  Whether it is a possibility or not, is a different story. I've gone through the usual stages:

1. Starting the season optimistic and being backed up by our performances.
2. Remaining optimistic despite not winning enough games. Saying we deserved more than we got.
3. The classic ups and downs. Ups always follow with me saying "there's a long way to go and we can easily do it". Downs followed by "there's a long way to go and we can still do it".
4. We edge towards the final third of the season, and we're just starting to come strong. I analyse our remaining fixtures against our opponents and argue why we can close the gap based on the games we have to play, the games others have to play, and current level of each team's performance etc. For example "win our next 3 games, and then it will be interesting going into the spurs game at Anfield".
5. Feeling absolutely destroyed when we lose one of the easier games that we really need to win, and swearing that it's the final straw "All we have to play for now is pride, and possibly league position with Everton" . This year it was the West Brom game at home. (Still can't ever remember being so disappointed after a game of football by the way... ever).
6. We come back and win a few on the bounce and people start to comment on our excellent form and ponder whether or not there is still enough time and points left for us to sneak 4th.

The next stage is usually the same: We don't finish 4th (we actually don't really close the gap much atall) but we finish the season on an a very optimistic note and we all say the same thing: "If we carry this into next season, we will finish top 4 at the very least".

And then the cycle repeats. Throw in the odd variable like a change of manager and/or a cup triumph here and there, but this has generally been the same since the start of the 09/10 season.

I rate myself as one of the most optimistic Liverpool fans out there, and I always look at the positive, and don't dwell too much on negatives. But I just feel that even though we keep believing we are moving forward each season, and that "It will be different next season.. that'll be our season", the facts show we actually are not progressing at all.

My question is, Can anyone show me or tell me any hard facts that we are actually moving in the right direction? Any proof that 2013/2014 trully WILL be our season? Any reason to believe that our end of season form WILL carry on into the following season and that it won't all be the same all over again next season? Or are most people skeptical and think we will do roughly the same or even worse next time round?

I'd really like to hear from others, because despite having no facts or evidence, I trully do believe that next season will be much better. But I can't put my finger on why I feel that way. Help please. 

Yes our League seasons of late have been very similar. Now we have gotten ourselves into a situation where we have nothing left to lose again because we've already lost it.

2 seasons ago we were hammering everyone under Kenny when the pressure was off, last season we were awful in the league from this point on and concentrating on the cups and this season again like 2 years ago we are hammering the field now that the pressure is off again.

We need a good start to next season to build a platform so that come next March we are still in the hunt for the top prizes.

no hard facts here except I thought i saw somewhere we have already scored more goals this year than last.  Unfortunately we have let in a lot more as well.

My thoughts about us are that the last couple of seasons we had too much turnover to realistically be consistent and challenge for the league. Even this year we were getting to know BR....next season should be better as BR would have had a full year to instill his theories and strategies into the team ... as we are seeing them improve now.  However, there is still a couple of concerns for me.

1) BR has said quality over quantity now and I do agree to a certain extent.  If we do not get europe ball next year then pretty much every game we play we could field the same starting XI.  however, current successful clubs like Manure and RM etc if you look at their squad, they are much much deeper than ours.  They must always have champions league play to really stay somewhat economically afloat (and even then that is a stretch).  I like what BR has said about 2 players for every position as this will give him the flexibility of slotting players together to form a squad... however I wonder the quality difference between the first team player and the 2nd player for the same position.  Besides midfields currently, I see the bench as far behind the starting player (think suarez and whoever would be considered his counterpart).

2) the team would definitely have more experience playing together and unless something catastrophic happens, they should be quite in sync next season.  This does make me optimistic

3) as with all sports... every team technically improves season by season .... however, the question is did we improve relatively more than our competition? This is the trickiest part for me... we can add a few options to our squad and be better but how much better would our top 4 competitors have gotten as well?  I look at our defense core from last year and this year... it was roughly the same... but why did this year be so different?  For one, our competitors found our weakness and exploited it like crazy.

I for one see the league getting even tighter next year and even as a die hard LFC fan I feel that realistically at best we will challenge for 3rd or 4th spot.  Either way, that would be awesome as that would equal more exposure to our players and we earn more revenue for better players!

The cycle does repeat.
After we finished second we went nowhere ever since.
There were many distractions along the way (H+G) etc but did the Scum drop during takeovers?

Continuity was not maintained whatever the reasons and we are now in a period of stability.

It was the owners remit to hire for this revered club the best manager around and with his win rate Brendan certainly wasnt.

The key to why we are debating whether we will get a CL place is down to  managerial change .... methods and style of play ...... players.
On the latter depending on Luis for four months was insane but now we DO have two extra and exciting prospects in the team I do think the mould has been broken.

CL would be a bonus but it wont be the end of the world if we just miss .............as long as we continue to climb and progess.
I can be patient.
Just.

Good opening post and some interesting thoughts that follow. Makes interesting reading on the way into work.

For me, it boils down to a weakness in defence. I honestly feel since Big Sami and Carragher were split up, the confidence at the back hasn't been the same.

I think this season we've improved at the other end of the pitch but our vulnerability at the back hasn't.

I know that's not cold hard facts and there's probably statistics to prove otherwise (they always tell two different stories), but if we stop shipping goals so easily - especially at set pieces - I honestly think we'll see a break in the cycle.

OP made me remember how scum fans make fun of us. We start a season with believe that this is our season and we have world class players. Then as the season progresse's we painfully understand that the players are not good as we thought. Then by Feb-March we will loose the hope of CL. Then when the pressure is off, we will play good football and give hope for next season. Then the cycle repeats.

For all that optimism about next season, we all fearing inside that "will it be our season? " . Lets wait and see.

Fair points raised.

2 things jump out at me. 1 being the amount of managers we have had in the short time since we finished 2nd. And 2 theres a fair amount of players have played in that time and must not be learning from previous seasons mistakes/shortfalls in our game

I think this season has been a success in some aspects i.e. we have more total points now than we had the whole of last season!We have more goals now than we had the whole of last season shows we are more clinical in front of goal and the team is starting to gel more!

I think ( I know we say this every year) next season if we hold on to our key players (Reina, Agger, Lucas, Suarez and Obviosuly Gerrard) and add more experience i think top 4 can be achieved. Were playing the best football in the league at the moment in my opinion just need to cut out mistakes meaning need to bring in quality experienced defenders!

Cracking OP - and its something I beleive...

If we go out and sign 1 or 2 players who are any good the media will start the hype - if the fans dont..! We start to beleive that we are world class and like a sleeping elephant we will awake from this nap to dominate for a decade. It's just not the case.

However, i do beleive that we will be a lot better next season - and that we will finish top 4. Brendan is getting us playing not only some good football but some attacking and scoring football. Up top we have Suarez, Sturridge and Couthino - 3 players that had we had all season playing together we would have scored a lot more! Gerrard is moving into a 'quarter back' role and that will give him another 2 seasons min - with Lucas back we have holding players who can break up the play. Yes in defence we are shakey - especially with Carra leaving... But we have a better team, and squad than we have had since th 09/10 season so I would argue that we will finish in a better position than this season....

I think that one point that can be argued is indeed the effect that Coutinho and Sturridge have had since signing. With all 3 of them playing, or atleast 2 of the 3 playing every game next season (as well as Downing playing like he is now more often) it certainly looks more optimistic.

Had we signed them last summer rather than in January I'm certain we'd have more points now than what we actually do. I know you could say that if we signed Sturridge and Coutinho in the summer, Sterling might not have got much of a look in, however it's no criticism of the lad to say he's not quite as effective as the 2 of them yet, because he is still so young. I think he was probably as exciting at the start of the season as Coutinho is now but you can see the age gap between them - even if it is only 2 years, those 2 years extra experience show a bit. No doubt Sterling will benefit from being able to be rotated more often. Early this season he was playing way too much due to our striker shortage. It will be similar with Suso.

I think that Kenny makes a good point as well. While we have now, and have had in the past few seasons, some solid defenders, I think our defence as a whole has been a bit too shaky for some time. Carra and Sami made an awesome partnership, and the season we finished 2nd the defence looked compact and solid. For me, there has been too much rotation in our defence recently. For 11/12, Skrtel was my player of the season and I think he was possibly the best centre half in the league, but this season he has had not been as consistent. Agger is getting better for me, and I think it must be to do with his good run of games without injury - something he had problems with in the past.

With Carra retiring, our defence will clearly be the key area for investment in summer. If we sign someone like Ashley Williams as a replacement, I would be happy with that (as much as I don't like him as a person, I'm sure Rodgers can teach him the Liverpool way).

I don't need facts or stats to see how we have improved this season. The belief, the movement and the goals I am seeing now tells me everything I need to know. Once we get proper consistency and a few quality players next season its all systems go.

That's actually the point of this topic. I think many people believe we are improving, however, we seem to say that every season.

What I'm asking is, are there any solid facts to believe it will be different this time?

The main positive has to be that we're starting to easily beat teams below us. For many years we've been guilty of throwing away points against smaller teams so going into next season that has to be a major plus.

The big concern remains how we crumble under pressure (usually the defence are the biggest culprits). Look at Zenit for example. Very tight first leg, but we missed chances and fu**ed up at the back to go two down. In the return tie, there was a great chance to come back yet we fu**ed up again to go down. Then with 'nothing to lose' we scored three times.

As FOAR said, we're losing everything too easily and too early in the season. We need to transfer these good performances to the first game in August.

I totally agree with the posts saying that we find it easier to perform when we have nothing to lose. And the Zenit game is a classic example of it.

I agree chats that recently we've been beating the lesser teams more easily. Especially, this season, the fact that we've only won one game against the teams above us, and only won 2 games against any of the top 10 shows that almost all our points have come beating the lesser teams.

Then again, the 3 game period of Arsenal (A), City (A), West Brom (H) showed that we can outplay the big boys in the big games, and then not be up for it when we come back to earth and have to dig out a win against a lower team at home. I do think our record against the lower team must still improve. And we must lose less games at home - 08/09 season we lost twice all season. Spurs 2-1 away and Boro 2-0 away. Zero home defeats.

The key for me next season will be where we sit after 10 games. That is the first time to judge our chances.

Just taking into account our last two managers, I think we can see that we're growing and weak points are being identified. Under Kenny and Brendan we have seen growth in our style of play and within the last two transfer windows we've seen improvement in the quality of the squad. Given the fact that Brendans been on his travels looking at players and (up to now) seems to be identifying players that grow the squad I feel optimism is something we should all carry for the future.

I have a sneaking and what I feel is justified feeling that come kick off of the first game next season we'll all (well, nearly all) feel as though we can genuinely compete against anyone out there. I have to say fair play to NESV as well, they may not be omnipresent at Anfield and in the board room but they are slowly but surely building something good, that's my feeling anyhow.

The beginning of this season we suffered probably the most farcical transfer window of all time. This on top of a new manager lead to a slow start. It was to be expected under those circumstances. January was much better and some good business was done and we're seeing the results of that. 2013/2014 won't be "our" season in terms of challenging for 1st but if we avoid the mistakes of last Summer and Brendan again does some good business then we can expect a realistic challenge for a Champion's league spot. It's a work in progress that no other Liverpool manager in the Premier League era has had to undergo because after selling some of our best players in the Summer, BR was left with the bare bones of a squad to work with. The squads that both Rafa and Houllier inherited where no where near as thing as the one Rodgers did.

We've seen players settle down in to their new roles, new players brought in hit the ground running and if we can keep that up for the rest of the season and build on it for next season, I don't see any reason why we won't be playing CL football in 2014/2015 season.

The fact is, Brendan is getting the best out of the team, kicked Enrique up the arse and he came back better than ever, same with Downing and a couple more, he is being ruthless but at the same time has got the balance of the team right and their movement is there for all to see. We are getting to the stage (bit off yet but getting there) when Rafa had the team playing a really high tempo but at the same time able to link the passing at speed. No hard facts, you can just see it (suppose thats a fact?). It will only be different this time if we hold onto our best players and add a few quality players.

If BR has got the best out of the team, we are fu**ed.

 IMO we should be doing better, we were out of every cup competition before they got interesting and we are unlikely to get into Europe from the league,it might happen but I believe we will fall short.

 With the players we have this is a piss poor season, so far

On reflection, I am a little dissapointed at how we felt the victory over Spurs was the more important of the season. If victory over Spurs is the highlight then we have fallen a long, long way from our standards. I know this is stating the obvious but its kind of sad.

On reflection, I am a little dissapointed at how we felt the victory over Spurs was the more important of the season. If victory over Spurs is the highlight then we have fallen a long, long way from our standards. I know this is stating the obvious but its kind of sad.

That's one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is to say that victory showed grit and determination to overcome another top top team in good form - for me it was very important because I haven't seen us win that type of game for a long time. So when you look at it like that, it was almost like the first step on the ladder to get back to where we were under Rafa. Obviously when we get back to that point we aim to go even further this time.

On reflection, I am a little dissapointed at how we felt the victory over Spurs was the more important of the season. If victory over Spurs is the highlight then we have fallen a long, long way from our standards. I know this is stating the obvious but its kind of sad.

maybe but we have fallen down a long way from what we are used to.  we are now rebuilding and every success like the win over tottenham is a small victory... another milestone achieved on our way back to glory!

If BR has got the best out of the team, we are fu**ed.

 IMO we should be doing better, we were out of every cup competition before they got interesting and we are unlikely to get into Europe from the league,it might happen but I believe we will fall short.

 With the players we have this is a piss poor season, so far

He is saying recently. The last few games I think we have showed a lot of promise and we have been getting things done. We have scored a lot more goals and have looked more and more threatening. We even got a bit of luck on our side as well. The beginning and middle of the season were rough but we got through it. Rodgers is the man for the job though, that much is sure to me.

He is saying recently. The last few games I think we have showed a lot of promise and we have been getting things done. We have scored a lot more goals and have looked more and more threatening. We even got a bit of luck on our side as well. The beginning and middle of the season were rough but we got through it. Rodgers is the man for the job though, that much is sure to me.

I hope your right about BR, I remain to be convinced.

 We have play well in the last few games but even if we keep it up for the last 9 game we could still fail to get into Europe, so far as this season is concerned, it is not good enough

I totally agree with the posts saying that we find it easier to perform when we have nothing to lose. And the Zenit game is a classic example of it.

Ally if we had scored another goal againsy Zenit we would of gone through to the next round so in that particular match  we had plenty to lose .I am sure all REDS players and fans would of wanted us to progress in this cup.

Ally if we had scored another goal againsy Zenit we would of gone through to the next round so in that particular match  we had plenty to lose .I am sure all REDS players and fans would of wanted us to progress in this cup.

Ofcourse we all wanted to progress to the next round.

In the first leg, we played ok but when things were in the balance we didn't perform well enough and they took the advantage. Same at the start of the home leg. Then, all of a sudden, when there seems to be nothing to play for, we start perfoming and score 3 goals, but it wasn't enough.

And as you point out, when we had to score 1 more, we had something to lose at that point, and we couldn't do it. You only seem to be reniforcing what i said.