Squad discussion

I just have the idea of a thread where we can discuss any issue that belongs to our current squad.

This includes e.g.:

• tactic, formation and general philosophy of our play
• Injuries and replacements
• Impact from reinforcements
• Performance of single players

I don't know if this thread is required, but I thought I give it a shot and let you guys decide about it

A starting point to this thread could be the Coutinho injury. Perhaps someone could implement the following thread into this?: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,45338.0.html

Well our managers philosophy of educating young technically talented footballers to harness their capabilities utilising a playing system that allows skill and expression to flourish, tika-taka if you must, is one that I for one am delighted to see instilled in this club. We are playing "pretty" football with a high level of passing and creativity with players, some of which, were ignored in their previous clubs. It took the best part of a year to educate our players in understanding the system and required the manager to find technically gifted players on a limited budget that could adapt quickly to this system. After one season this system is now starting to bear fruit. It's still not perfect and further tweaking is required to maximise team and individual performance levels but I think we are one, if not the most, enjoyable team to watch playing football in the premier league at present.

I am shocked by the injuries/ lack of options in the FB positions. Johnson, Enrique ? We have Martin Kelly who is really a CB. These are important positions for attacking and defending and we don't seem to have much.

Without Attacking FB we just have a static back four which then puts more pressure on the midfield and frontline to create. With Gerrard deep and 2 of Lucas, Henderson and Allen we just do not have enough going forward. IF we get Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez on the pitch we might be ok but without  at least two of them we will struggle.

We should bought another really good wb.

we enough backs, we need other top midfield in january, l feel going take us few transfer windows to get team frighting for league

IMO we have the best keeper in the league, possibly the best defence and without doubt the best attack in the league but we are missing a power house in the middle of the park and someone in midfield in the mould of Navas

l agree we lack that bit strength in midfield,

squad not good enough for top 4 these year, l feel going take us least other year or two get back in top 4 or going for league, till we add other 3 or 4 top players in areas like attacking midfield and luis leaves, other good forward and defence midfield with pace and power

We're not even maintaining the squad, let alone improving it. A club like LFC typically needed 20-23m or so spent every year just to  stand still. Our owners worship the gods of money, wagecutting and "brand monetization". Rather than existing to win trophies.
Some people will start crying because I'm honest, but I couldnt care less what they say.

Some other fans say we're "delusional" and "think we're back in the 1980s". Unfortunately there IS some truth in that. There is still the foundation of a strong 1st 11 or so. But even the 1st 11 has glaring gaps.

Suarez and Sturridge are very good. Couninho is good if used in the right way. Gerrard is ageing and not capable of any form of "duracell power bunny" role over many games. Lucas has his strengths, but his weaknesses will be exposed in a team that struggles.
Agger is a top player. Johnson a good player (but sometimes lapses). Skrtel has strengths and some weaknesses. Sakho can become a very good player. Enrique some + and -. Kelly is a v good prospect. Mignolet is a step down from Reina, and our defensive cover is not top level.

Next level down is Henderson and Allen etc. Not players I am delighted at. They're simply average PL players these days.
Next level again is Borini, Aspas, L Alberto - not Liverpool standard.

Ofcourse there's lots of players I've missed here. But the reality is that our squad is no where near Chelsea, Manc U and Man C.
Nor do we have the genius of Wenger. Additionally, its shocking to see how strong the Spurs squad is vs our own.

Much of our supporter base has definitely overinflated the worth of many of our players. Players like Henderson, Allen, Aspas, Alberto etc, I couldnt see them getting remotely NEAR a regular place for Spurs. And who the hell are Spurs historically?

Even mickeymouse teams like Cardiff spend well over 30m in one Summer, PLUS stadium additions.

Even Chelsea have no worries in loaning their players out to us. And who do we loan our players out to? Stoke and the like.
I think that says something.

The reality is that the game is awash with money. Decent players cost money and wages. Whether we finish 4th or 16th, FSG think they'll get a full house. So they have no interest whatsoever in seriously attempting to improve the squad.

Check out the Spurs squad vs ours. Then check out the 2 Mancs and Chelsea. That really demonstrates what our so called top 4 credentials are.

We're not even maintaining the squad, let alone improving it. A club like LFC typically needed 20-23m or so spent every year just to  stand still. Our owners worship the gods of money, wagecutting and "brand monetization". Rather than existing to win trophies.
Some people will start crying because I'm honest, but I couldnt care less what they say.

Some other fans say we're "delusional" and "think we're back in the 1980s". Unfortunately there IS some truth in that. There is still the foundation of a strong 1st 11 or so. But even the 1st 11 has glaring gaps.

Suarez and Sturridge are very good. Couninho is good if used in the right way. Gerrard is ageing and not capable of any form of "duracell power bunny" role over many games. Lucas has his strengths, but his weaknesses will be exposed in a team that struggles.
Agger is a top player. Johnson a good player (but sometimes lapses). Skrtel has strengths and some weaknesses. Sakho can become a very good player. Enrique some + and -. Kelly is a v good prospect. Mignolet is a step down from Reina, and our defensive cover is not top level.

Next level down is Henderson and Allen etc. Not players I am delighted at. They're simply average PL players these days.
Next level again is Borini, Aspas, L Alberto - not Liverpool standard.

Ofcourse there's lots of players I've missed here. But the reality is that our squad is no where near Chelsea, Manc U and Man C.
Nor do we have the genius of Wenger. Additionally, its shocking to see how strong the Spurs squad is vs our own.

Much of our supporter base has definitely overinflated the worth of many of our players. Players like Henderson, Allen, Aspas, Alberto etc, I couldnt see them getting remotely NEAR a regular place for Spurs. And who the hell are Spurs historically?

Even mickeymouse teams like Cardiff spend well over 30m in one Summer, PLUS stadium additions.

Even Chelsea have no worries in loaning their players out to us. And who do we loan our players out to? Stoke and the like.
I think that says something.

The reality is that the game is awash with money. Decent players cost money and wages. Whether we finish 4th or 16th, FSG think they'll get a full house. So they have no interest whatsoever in seriously attempting to improve the squad.

Check out the Spurs squad vs ours. Then check out the 2 Mancs and Chelsea. That really demonstrates what our so called top 4 credentials are.

Seriously how can you say Alberto is not Liverpool standard? He's 20 years old and barely played first team football for us.

Also disagree with you on Hendo I think he is constantly improving and becoming an important player for us.

Also disagree that Mig is a step down from Reina. In distribution yes he's not as good as Pepe but in everything else (shot stopping, catching high balls, commanding presence, concentration) I think he is an improvement.

Seriously how can you say Alberto is not Liverpool standard? He's 20 years old and barely played first team football for us.

Also disagree with you on Hendo I think he is constantly improving and becoming an important player for us.

Also disagree that Mig is a step down from Reina. In distribution yes he's not as good as Pepe but in everything else (shot stopping, catching high balls, commanding presence, concentration) I think he is an improvement.

I dont think the current Alberto is Liverpool standard. And Borini, Aspas I was never happy about.
Maybe Alberto will improve. But he doesnt offer much right now. Remember 7th place would have been considered a monumental crisis is years gone by. Nowadays, our owners just shrug their shoulders, and look at the zeros on the latest sponsorship detail.


Unfortantely, Henderson may well be a key player for us. He's not that bad a player. I mean he's in many ways playing in the toughest league in the world. But the issue is one of standards. Is he a top 4 midfieder now? No, not in the least. Just check out how strong the Spurs central midfield is. I was shocked. And yet they are only the 4th or 5th team in England.

Henderson is one of the reasons why comprehensively struggle to beat top teams.

The attacks on Pepe were just pr sh*t from our wage cut obsessed owners. Reina is a fantastic keeper. Mignolet is young and might improve. My view is, if something isn't fu**ed, dont F**k about with it. Mignolet would have been a nice cover keeper. Now, our cover is pretty garbage.

Compared to the top 4, 5 or so teams, we have a very weak squad. With some glaring holes. Sure there may be differences over indiv players. But the bottom line cant really be disputed.

I like the way Borini is still included in this yet he isn't even at the club for this season.

As for Mignolet being deemed a "good cover keeper", if it wasn't for him we'd have had less points and a much heavier defeat to Saints. Pepe was a class keeper for us and I was gutted to see him leave but I have every confidence in Mignolet, just as much as when Pepe was between the sticks and he has proven already he is more than good enough to be playing for us. Just needs to work on his distribution.

I dont think the current Alberto is Liverpool standard. And Borini, Aspas I was never happy about.
Maybe Alberto will improve. But he doesnt offer much right now. Remember 7th place would have been considered a monumental crisis is years gone by. Nowadays, our owners just shrug their shoulders, and look at the zeros on the latest sponsorship detail.


Unfortantely, Henderson may well be a key player for us. He's not that bad a player. I mean he's in many ways playing in the toughest league in the world. But the issue is one of standards. Is he a top 4 midfieder now? No, not in the least. Just check out how strong the Spurs central midfield is. I was shocked. And yet they are only the 4th or 5th team in England.

Henderson is one of the reasons why comprehensively struggle to beat top teams.

The attacks on Pepe were just pr sh*t from our wage cut obsessed owners. Reina is a fantastic keeper. Mignolet is young and might improve. My view is, if something isn't fu**ed, dont F**k about with it. Mignolet would have been a nice cover keeper. Now, our cover is pretty garbage.

Compared to the top 4, 5 or so teams, we have a very weak squad. With some glaring holes. Sure there may be differences over indiv players. But the bottom line cant really be disputed.

After the Southampton debacle and the bitter taste of reality come the recriminations.
The manager is criticised for his tactics and or his selections.
Individual players scrutinised and demonised for a lack of motivation.

If the manager had depth in quality he could make tactical changes that he would be confident in, instead he has a squad woefully short in acknowledged quality and numbers.
There isn't the back up to juggle the squad when the line up is found wanting so we have to persevere with an innefficient game plan.

FFS FSG GYFFO.

After the Southampton debacle and the bitter taste of reality come the recriminations.
The manager is criticised for his tactics and or his selections.
Individual players scrutinised and demonised for a lack of motivation.

If the manager had depth in quality he could make tactical changes that he would be confident in, instead he has a squad woefully short in acknowledged quality and numbers.
There isn't the back up to juggle the squad when the line up is found wanting so we have to persevere with an innefficient inefficient game plan.

FFS FSG GYFFO.

Internet took the knock before I could correct it.

Two problems that are glaringly obvious to must of us and I would hope are in the managers thoughts as well.

He needs to sort out who he is playing at CB and stick with it so they can build a partnership. Also in defense he needs to play a proper RB who suits his system i.e one that can attack and play the ball further up the pitch and also to a lesser extent find his left back. It may well be Cissokho but if so he has to play Jose until he is fit as Sakho aint a full back.

He also needs to find the right blend in midfield, especially while Phil is out. Gerrard and Lucas isn't quite working and it may sort itself out but I'd like to see Henderson or Allen given a go beside one of them to give us a different dimension in the middle of the park.

I think we have too many players that should be squad players but who are automatic first choice with little or no competition for their place.

We badly need to strengthen the midfield and add creativity to the team as we are too reliant on one or two players (Coutinho and Suarez) to create chances.   

There's been a lot of discussion in various threads this week about our midfield.  The pairing of Lucas and Gerrard, the lack of creativity without Coutinho, the need for a pacey, strong CAM type player. 

This has got me thinking about the future and what/who we have at the Academy as well as the younger ones in the 1st team squad.

The under 23's currently featuring with the 1st team

Henderson
Alberto
Coutinho
Allen

Academy players on loan

Suso
Adorjan
Coady
Teixera

Academy players currently playing at u21's/u18's

Dunn 18
Brannagan 17
Rossiter 16
Pelosi 19
Trickett-Smith 18
Lussey 18
Roddan 20
Kent 16
Wilson 17

Suso and Adorjan seem to be doing well at the their loan Clubs.  Both are getting games and scoring goals.  I'm sure Coady is having a tough time of it at Sheff Utd, league 1 is notoriously rough and they aren't doing very well this season but he'll get some valuable experience from it.  I've no idea on Teixera as I've not heard anything since he went.

I'm not asking how many, if any, of the Academy players listed will make it, I'm asking do we have the type of midfielders to take us forward?  Do we have amongst them the right combinations for a midfield 3? 

There's been a lot of discussion in various threads this week about our midfield.  The pairing of Lucas and Gerrard, the lack of creativity without Coutinho, the need for a pacey, strong CAM type player. 

This has got me thinking about the future and what/who we have at the Academy as well as the younger ones in the 1st team squad.

The under 23's currently featuring with the 1st team

Henderson
Alberto
Coutinho
Allen

Academy players on loan

Suso
Adorjan
Coady
Teixera

Academy players currently playing at u21's/u18's

Dunn 18
Brannagan 17
Rossiter 16
Pelosi 19
Trickett-Smith 18
Lussey 18
Roddan 20
Kent 16
Wilson 17

Suso and Adorjan seem to be doing well at the their loan Clubs.  Both are getting games and scoring goals.  I'm sure Coady is having a tough time of it at Sheff Utd, league 1 is notoriously rough and they aren't doing very well this season but he'll get some valuable experience from it.  I've no idea on Teixera as I've not heard anything since he went.

I'm not asking how many, if any, of the Academy players listed will make it, I'm asking do we have the type of midfielders to take us forward? Do we have amongst them the right combinations for a midfield 3?

Interesting comment Debs and deserving of a + for your research.
Regarding the highlighted section therein is possibly the ingredient to take us forward but that will not materialise if indeed it does for some time yet, certainly not for the term we require.
FSG have saved on the wage bill by loaning out the aforementioned, as well as shipping out those classed as ''surplus to requirements'' - would it not have been seen to be prudent to provide some back up for the midfield black-hole we now contemplate?
The transfer windows are closed of course but the situation that prevails and stands to destroy an outstanding start could never have been more predictable and capable of being addressed; that of course would have required parting with some of the dosh clawed back to accommodate a trimming of the running costs associated with the club. Perhaps a more applicable statement should read 'to accommodate a trimming of the running costs associated with the club and it's perceived status to FSG'     

I am actually very surprised that we didn't buy another right back during the summer. I questioned this at the time, as we've been looking particularly weak there. I don't believe in makeshift full backs, as they are far less inclined to attack compared to dedicated full back. It's a technical position where you are at one point a defender, and the next an extra midfielder.

What Jose and Glen offer are those extra bodies in midfield. Whilst we will see Sakho and Toure attacking to the half way line, we'd see Enrique and Johnson making attempts to break into the opposition 18 yard box. That is the difference between a makeshift fullback and a dedicated full back. I think this is why we looked so incredibly clueless against Southampton and even Swansea. You really need to watch an analysis of the way Barcelona use their full backs. It's incredible. They are pretty much wingers and that's why Barcelona always manage to maintain a high possession statistic.

Another thing I noticed about the Southampton game was how deep our defence was in general. When Mignolet was taking a goal kick, our back line were literally inches away from the 18 yard box. Some Spanish teams play this way, but get away with it due to being tactically and technically sound. It'd be nice to dump this tika taka style of football and instead play more direct quicker football but still keep it looking good.

I heard today that they plan to let Glen Johnson's contract run out because he is another big earner.
You can buy a 100 players for £7million but you will not get a winning team out of them they are £7mil for a reason(bar the obvious exception)
We are so short of good quality players who have experience.

I heard today that they plan to let Glen Johnson's contract run out because he is another big earner.
You can buy a 100 players for £7million but you will not get a winning team out of them they are £7mil for a reason(bar the obvious exception)
We are so short of good quality players who have experience.

Yes I've been hearing it for quite a while too. Infact, they've even had their minions putting up the spreadsheet sh*te on the usual propaganda outlets.

Skrtel, Agger, Reina, Johnson, Suarez. The Yanksters have had a problem with all of these in their wage cut fanaticism. I understand Lucas as well. It'd l mean our "resident heroes" would  be people like Henderson, Allen and Sterling...

Clearly these people know nothing( or rather care nothing) about football. One thing about Pepe Reina is that he was 1000% winner. Mignolet is just a young guy who's pretty chuffed to be playing for a (formerly?) big club. We shouldnt underestimate these things. Pepe had W0rld Cup, European Championships medals (the latter twice) and a host of things at Liverpool.

Its a shame when the nearest to a winner in the new signings is Kolo Toure, a player who by his own admission is fair way past his best. Likewise with Gerrard. And we all know how frustrated Luis is with the lack of ambition in the "transfer committee".Someone will say the dressing room spirit is "ok". I think its a little less than "ok". One things clear, it doesn't have "winners" stamped on it.
Rodgers' team strike me as complete journeymen. And I'm not a fan of the Rodgers appintment itself (like the vast majority of Reds fans I speak to).

There's an Eastern saying "Everything in the World is either growing, or shrinking (or dying)". So I wonder where we are in  that scheme?

I heard today that they plan to let Glen Johnson's contract run out because he is another big earner.
You can buy a 100 players for £7million but you will not get a winning team out of them they are £7mil for a reason(bar the obvious exception)
We are so short of good quality players who have experience.

Ofcourse another thing that has been lost in the onslaught of spin is the phrase "big earner".
Ofcourse Glenjo earns mega money vs most people. But the reality is that for decent players you MUST pay decent wages. Football is getting bigger, and so wages are rising. Our own income is rising massively. But our inclination to pay the wages to get the players has disappeared quicker than an Islamic fundamentalist stumbling across a porno premiere.

In the past we got top stars because we'd pay the wages. Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Alonso, Masch etc etc.
One reason I knew Carroll would be a dud was because he couldn't command high wages. In other words, he was an accountant's not a football manager's choice. And so it was proven. (He was on MUCH lower wages than Nando btw).

Compare our wage bill to the big 5 or so. And its clear how far we've fallen.

Infact, if we arent winning silverware, we need to pay a little more to entice players. A player who is winning trophies will get merchandising deals etc. A player in midtable will not.

This illustrates how football clubs are either in vicious or virtuous circles.

I heard today that they plan to let Glen Johnson's contract run out because he is another big earner.
You can buy a 100 players for £7million but you will not get a winning team out of them they are £7mil for a reason(bar the obvious exception)
We are so short of good quality players who have experience.

the story was that at the moment there was no rush to sign him up again, but any offer MIGHT be for less wages as he would be past his 30th birthday

I heard today that they plan to let Glen Johnson's contract run out because he is another big earner.
You can buy a 100 players for £7million but you will not get a winning team out of them they are £7mil for a reason(bar the obvious exception)
We are so short of good quality players who have experience.

I guess that's fine though because Glen Johnson is the worst player to ever play football if you believe half of the fanbase.