Dejan Lovren (Southampton)

because; like it or not and irrespective of how uncomfortable they might make us feel (when they throw into doubt what we think we 'saw') - stats, like clean sheets/ goals conceded, actually do matter come the end of the season, whilst the things that we think we saw don't sadly.

If you take the goals conceded stats for example, they will not give you the form of an individuals performance. Now, I don't know, what Reina's stats were between the sticks but the manner in which goals were conceded give a better insight into the form of a player.

One keeper may concede 3 goals, 1 through the legs, a fumble and spilling the ball from a cross.
Another keeper may concede 5 goals, rockets or well placed shots that would beat ANY keeper.

Yet the stats show, the howler only conceded 3 in comparison to the other keeper in the same amount of games.

When you look at form of a player GK for e.g. you look at the manner in which they do things to determine their form - and sadly in Reina's case it did decline.

I am very happy with this signing - so far, Lovren will prove to be the key signing in this window in my view.

Lambert wil be a cult favourite, Markovic and Remy will get the headlines and adulation but Lovren will change the way we play as a team and that will improve our chances the most - even if he doesn't get the recognition.

Brilliant news!

I am very happy with this signing - so far, Lovren will prove to be the key signing in this window in my view.

Lambert wil be a cult favourite, Markovic and Remy will get the headlines and adulation but Lovren will change the way we play as a team and that will improve our chances the most - even if he doesn't get the recognition.

Brilliant news!

Hope you're right. I don't get to see many other games so I don't know what Lovren's like.

Hope you're right. I don't get to see many other games so I don't know what Lovren's like.

Have a look at this video posted by 7-King-Kenny-7 earlier in the thread - to be honest I hadn't taken much notice of him apart from reading some reports when he was on our radar before last year's transfer window. Since we have been linked with him again though I've seen some more footage of him and, in my view, he is almost exactly what we need (the only thing lacking being outright pace which Sakho should provide).

Skrtel is one of my favourite squad members and has done well to adapt his game to our requirements but his natural style isn't a good fit for us which has lead to mistakes being made. He plays almost like Carragher - but without the leadership/organisational qualities - in that he prefers a low block man-marking approach where his first instinct is to drop off - whether or not there are covering defenders behind him. This has created large gaps between the deepest lying midfielder (Lucas /Gerrard) and teh defensive line which he have seen exploited time and again last season.

Let's not forget that we need a balance of attack and defence to win the league - we had the best attack and the 8th best defence last season (normally you need to be the 1st/2nd best in each category to win the title).

Lovren is an organiser and very much a front-foot defender looking to step up, read play and get ahead of his man - which accounts for his high number of interceptions. He is a physical presence, competes in the air and has good distribution. I expect he will push up with Sakho and compress space making life easier for Gerrard but forcing Mig to come off his line more. On top of that he has good footballing skills being both physically intelligent and having good timing in the tackle.

The most exciting development with Lovren is that it opens up the possibility of playing a 1343 formation which other teams are not set up to compete with. it will take a fair amount of work on the training ground but if we can pull it off we might the same advantage that Mazzari's Napoli did or even Martinez's Wigan who managed to avoid relegation with it a couple of seasons ago.   

All in all I think he will prove to be a great bit of business - though as I say, he might not be recognised for it.

Dejan Lovren Defense, Tackles,skills,passes 2013-2014

Indeed they can mate.

That, being the case, it should be easy enough for you to show the stats which disprove that the Skrtel & Agger partnership was more successful than the Skrtel & Sakho partnership.

The thing is, although we say we don't like stats, unless they suit, of course; I, for one, am genuinely hoping that our stats improve, on last season, with Dejan (and whoever his partner is) at the heart of defence...

... because; like it or not and irrespective of how uncomfortable they might make us feel (when they throw into doubt what we think we 'saw') - stats, like clean sheets/ goals conceded, actually do matter come the end of the season, whilst the things that we think we saw don't sadly.

from what I read the Skrtel and Agger partnership was just 2 games. Stoke and Aston Villa.  If I remember right,  against Stoke Mignolet saved a penalty after agger hand balled a free kick Skrtel conceded. Do the stats show that?

from what I read the Skrtel and Agger partnership was just 2 games. Stoke and Aston Villa.  If I remember right,  against Stoke Mignolet saved a penalty after agger hand balled a free kick Skrtel conceded. Do the stats show that?

I am pretty confident that they don't mate, Skrtel didn't play against Stoke .... it was Toure and Agger.

Games in which we kept a clean sheet.

Stoke - Toure and Agger

Villa - Toure and Agger

Man utd - Skrtel and Agger

Fulham - Skrtel and Agger

Spurs - Skrtel and Sakho

Hull - Skrtel and Agger

Oldham - Toure and Agger

Bournemouth - Toure and Skrtel

Everton - Toure and Skrtel

Southampton - Skrtel and Agger

Man utd - Skrtel and Agger

Spurs - Skrtel and Agger

Agger 9 clean sheets

Agger and Lovren should be our starting pair of CB's for me.

from what I read the Skrtel and Agger partnership was just 2 games. Stoke and Aston Villa.

Well then... I guess you're going to have to "read" again or find a friend or kid to "read" for you.

Tell you what I'll give you one assist - Martin didn't play in the first two Stoke and Villa games (the two clean sheets) Danny did and Danny didn't play in the next two (5 - 3 & 2 - 2)  Martin did.

So either, you're making sh*t up (yet again) or you genuinely have problems reading: what is it?

Clean sheets analysis are a bit lazy, aren't they? As if a clean sheets depended solely on the CBs performances; as if a clean sheet against, say, Cardiff City, meant the same as a clean sheet against Man City; and as if conceding a goal (that is, losing a clean sheet) when you're cruising 5-0 was just as bad as conceding a goal in a 0-0 tight game against a good opponent.

I'm not even disputing if Agger is or isn't our best defender - personally I think he isn't, but that's not the point - I just think we can surely do better than number of clean sheets?

Clean sheets analysis are a bit lazy, aren't they? As if a clean sheets depended solely on the CBs performances; as if a clean sheet against, say, Cardiff City, meant the same as a clean sheet against Man City; and as if conceding a goal (that is, losing a clean sheet) when you're cruising 5-0 was just as bad as conceding a goal in a 0-0 tight game against a good opponent.

I'm not even disputing if Agger is or isn't our best defender - personally I think he isn't, but that's not the point - I just think we can surely do better than number of clean sheets?

I agree mate.... I am open to your suggestions?

Clean sheets analysis are a bit lazy, aren't they? As if a clean sheets depended solely on the CBs performances; as if a clean sheet against, say, Cardiff City, meant the same as a clean sheet against Man City; and as if conceding a goal (that is, losing a clean sheet) when you're cruising 5-0 was just as bad as conceding a goal in a 0-0 tight game against a good opponent.

I'm not even disputing if Agger is or isn't our best defender - personally I think he isn't, but that's not the point - I just think we can surely do better than number of clean sheets?

But if we keep more clean sheets with a certain pairing then it could be interpreted that they would be our strongest two together Diego?

But if we keep more clean sheets with a certain pairing then it could be interpreted that they would be our strongest two together Diego?

It could be but there are so many other factors in place, especially considering the very small sample size (how many clean sheets we did keep all season? ), I wouldn't take those numbers all too seriously.

I agree mate.... I am open to your suggestions?

I'm too lazy But I was expecting people with more in-depth stats. I used to have an account on one of those stats websites but I think it has expired. I'll see if I can find something better.

It could be but there are so many other factors in place, especially considering the very small sample size (how many clean sheets we did keep all season? ), I wouldn't take those numbers all too seriously.

I do get the point your making mate but surely if we concede less and have more clean sheets with a certain pair it stands to reason you may want to play those two more often than not.

It may not be down to anything they do together but as a team if them playing leads to more clean sheets then I can see and argument for playing that pair.

I'm not even disputing if Agger is or isn't our best defender - personally I think he isn't, but that's not the point - I just think we can surely do better than number of clean sheets?

If you read again it was more about picking the strongest pairing rather than the individual mate. I know you're not fond of Agger and subsequently the "lazy" clean sheets stats. In the interests of everyone being right - maybe we should get more creative and look for something which provides evidence that Danny is poor: any suggestions?

Listen - I know clean sheets or even goals conceded stats aren't important to everyone  but they go a big way to determining where the points end up...  Maybe that's why Brendan wants to address the issue.

If you read again it was more about picking the strongest pairing rather than the individual mate. I know you're not fond of Agger and subsequently the "lazy" clean sheets stats. In the interests of everyone being right - maybe we should get more creative and look for something which provides evidence that Danny is poor: any suggestions?

Listen - I know clean sheets or even goals conceded stats aren't important to everyone  but they go a big way to determining where the points end up...  Maybe that's why Brendan wants to address the issue.

Did you not posts stats for Danny and Martin as a pair at some stage last season Mouse?

http://anfieldindex.com/8639/liverpools-defensive-errors-mis-shapes-mistakes-misfits.html

Best I could find

I do get the point your making mate but surely if we concede less and have more clean sheets with a certain pair it stands to reason you may want to play those two more often than not.

It may not be down to anything they do together but as a team if them playing leads to more clean sheets then I can see and argument for playing that pair.

I understand that but as I said, I wouldn't take it as anything more than an indication that this specific pairing may be the best we have. I think it needs further analysis to reach any conclusions - analysis that the boss, with so much more information and (I believe) very advance performance analysis tools, will probably have made when he decides his CB pair for the following season.

I just think comparing number of clean sheets is too weak, as those numbers don't really capture the performance of those said players.

In the interests of everyone being right - maybe we should get more creative and look for something which provides evidence that Danny is poor: any suggestions?

I'll look into it!

Personally think we'll see Sakho-Lovren as our main pairing. Have a feeling that's Brendan's preference,  but Agger and Skrtel should get plenty of playing time too. In case of Sakho, we shouldn't forget he's still fairly young, last season was his first season with us, and he was out for 2 months with an injury. He's only going to get better.

Did you not posts stats for Danny and Martin as a pair at some stage last season Mouse?

Probably, I don't know but let's not get bogged down with stats after all they only prove one thing - last season's strongest paring... No wait; isn't that how this 'conversation' started? I'm confusing myself now. 

I just think comparing number of clean sheets is too weak, as those numbers don't really capture the performance of those said players.

Like I said I get your point 100% mate but is their individual performances that important if it leads to the team conceding less and having more cleans sheets?

Personally think we'll see Sakho-Lovren as our main pairing. Have a feeling that's Brendan's preference,

I reckon you're right mate and hopefully they'll improve drastically on last season's poor showing [clean sheets and goals conceded]. To be fair tho' that shouldn't be too hard.

I reckon you're right mate and hopefully they'll improve drastically on last season's poor showing [clean sheets and goals conceded]. To be fair tho' that shouldn't be too hard.

Critical though mate isn't it.

Regardless of whether you think that we conceded more goals than the competition because of personnel, tactics or form the undeniable truth is we gave them all one helluva head start......

but is their individual performances that important if it leads to the team conceding less and having more cleans sheets?

I also understand your point but I wouldn't say it's their individual performances that necessarily leads the team to concede less and have more clean sheets. It can be a wide variety of factors. A CB pair might do everything just perfect but then a midfielder slips and gifts the opposition a goal so there's no clean sheet; or a CB pair might concede a penalty in the 90th minute which is saved by the keeper and the clean sheet is guaranteed.