Roberto Firmino Player Thread (F)

Confused by this. I did not think he was that good yesterday but a lot of people weren't. Are you failing to realize how Firmino was our best player for a ton of games a few months ago, then the rest of the team actually showed up and we started playing better?

"ton of games"

Yes, I am failing to realise this because it simply is hyperbole.

He had a run of decent games earlier on in the season, got a goal or two, an assist or two etc. Exactly what he should be doing on a consistent basis like Milner grabbing a "ton" of assists.

I'm not going to cling onto a purple patch he had in which he showed very good contribution as a reason to excuse his Jekyll and more prominently of late Hyde performances.

The gif of the flick is nice, show boating when the game is pretty much done is ice-ing on the cake and he was part of the meat and bones in that team that night.

But in the bigger picture his form has been consistently average IMO.

He had a run of decent games earlier on in the season, got a goal or two, an assist or two etc.

But yet he is statistically our best player this season in all competitions, our top scorer in the league and looked very impressive. Not bad considering he didn't get going properly until near the end of October. So your "got a goal or two, and assist or two" can only be followed by your "etc" if you are going to follow it with or 3 or 4 or 5 etc.

Stop trying to slate a player that doesn't deserve to be slated. Got more important things to think about such as the cup final which he will be a part of whether you like it or not so give your head a wobble.

"ton of games"

Yes, I am failing to realise this because it simply is hyperbole.

He had a run of decent games earlier on in the season, got a goal or two, an assist or two etc. Exactly what he should be doing on a consistent basis like Milner grabbing a "ton" of assists.

I'm not going to cling onto a purple patch he had in which he showed very good contribution as a reason to excuse his Jekyll and more prominently of late Hyde performances.

The gif of the flick is nice, show boating when the game is pretty much done is ice-ing on the cake and he was part of the meat and bones in that team that night.

But in the bigger picture his form has been consistently average IMO.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Truth is he was our best player for a large chunk of the season in my opinion. I said "ton of games" because I could not put an exact number on it, hence the "hyperbole."

A lot of people don't get goals and assists in every games. Sturridge doesn't even do that. Bar Barcelona and Real Madrid players (Messi, Suarez, etc.) not many players do. Look at Hazard this season, he did not play well just like most of the Chelsea team, do you think they are all average players to.

People live and die by statistics, when the way a player plays the game is sometimes one of the most important things. What about the guy that passes it to the person who assists a goal? He doesn't get any statistical figures but his pass help set the play up. Sometimes it is just one person setting up the goal or etc. But a lot of the time goals are a team effort of keeping possession, opening up the defense with runs and finding an opening.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen goals because a player makes a run and takes a defender with him, only for the ball to get passed to someone else and that person scores. While he did not touch the ball, his run opened up the defense.

You have to judge the team and game as a whole sometimes, yes you can judge individually but sometimes it is hard to do, especially if the entire team is playing well. Firmino has had poor games and he has had games where he was our best player (a lot of times in my opinion). That happens to a lot of players and i think you are being quite too harsh on him. But as i said that is my opinion, not a fact.

But yet he is statistically our best player this season in all competitions, our top scorer in the league and looked very impressive. Not bad considering he didn't get going properly until near the end of October. So your "got a goal or two, and assist or two" can only be followed by your "etc" if you are going to follow it with or 3 or 4 or 5 etc.

Stop trying to slate a player that doesn't deserve to be slated. Got more important things to think about such as the cup final which he will be a part of whether you like it or not so give your head a wobble.

This is his player thread, ergo I am not worrying about the UEFA cup final in this thread.

I, like any other poster here, can slate where I see fit.

Not when you tell me.

Get off your high horse.

But in the bigger picture his form has been consistently average IMO.

This comment has no logic to it mate.

If a player is "consistently average" it would mean he has to be average in every game he plays. Which can't be the case for Bobby since he was MOTM in a few games this season.

11 goals and 11 assists this season, his first for Liverpool, doesn't add up to a "consistently average" player no matter what way you spin it.

This is his player thread, ergo I am not worrying about the UEFA cup final in this thread.

I, like any other poster here, can slate where I see fit.

Not when you tell me.

Get off your high horse.

I'm not on any high horse so you can forget that straight away. But if you think now is the time to go slating players, particularly ones that have played a big part in our season then you haven't got your priorities right, especially when you are trying to slate a player that doesn't deserve to be slated. None of our players have been particularly great over the last few games but that is probably down to the amount of rotation at the moment. He's still playing a part though and chipping in, shame you are too busy looking for the negatives though, but then it doesn't surprise me.

11 goals and 11 assists this season, his first for Liverpool, doesn't ass up to a "consistently average" player no matter that way you spin it.

Mate, you may as well just go beat your head against a brick wall.

The issue people have with Bobby is he appears to go MIA for stretches of games and more often than not for stretches within games. You don't really see him doing anything for 70 minutes then BOOM some type of crazy assist or a goal.

He is still young, it's his first year in the league and he will improve. People's frustration are the talent that is obviously there and if it could be there for 90 minutes (like Luis to an extent) what a grand player he would be.

That all being said he is one of the few players in our squad that has the X factor and is capable and simply terrorizing the opposition, and although he does "appear" to disappear I have never noticed him being lazy as far as work rate or in closing down the opposition.

At 24 he will be coming into his prime now, and I personally think once it all comes together he will really take off.

"ton of games"

Yes, I am failing to realise this because it simply is hyperbole.

He had a run of decent games earlier on in the season, got a goal or two, an assist or two etc. Exactly what he should be doing on a consistent basis like Milner grabbing a "ton" of assists.

I'm not going to cling onto a purple patch he had in which he showed very good contribution as a reason to excuse his Jekyll and more prominently of late Hyde performances.

The gif of the flick is nice, show boating when the game is pretty much done is ice-ing on the cake and he was part of the meat and bones in that team that night.

But in the bigger picture his form has been consistently average IMO.

I think Firmino is probably the most talented Liverpool player and he is only 24. He can be a Striker, Winger or Attacking midfielder. Name me one other player that players for Liverpool and can do 3 roles very well.

The issue people have with Bobby is he appears to go MIA for stretches of games and more often than not for stretches within games. You don't really see him doing anything for 70 minutes then BOOM some type of crazy assist or a goal.

He is still young, it's his first year in the league and he will improve. People's frustration are the talent that is obviously there and if it could be there for 90 minutes (like Luis to an extent) what a grand player he would be.

That all being said he is one of the few players in our squad that has the X factor and is capable and simply terrorizing the opposition, and although he does "appear" to disappear I have never noticed him being lazy as far as work rate or in closing down the opposition.

At 24 he will be coming into his prime now, and I personally think once it all comes together he will really take off.

Maybe when he is centre forward, you forget firmino can't pass to himself.

The issue people have with Bobby is he appears to go MIA for stretches of games and more often than not for stretches within games. You don't really see him doing anything for 70 minutes then BOOM some type of crazy assist or a goal.

He is still young, it's his first year in the league and he will improve. People's frustration are the talent that is obviously there and if it could be there for 90 minutes (like Luis to an extent) what a grand player he would be.

That all being said he is one of the few players in our squad that has the X factor and is capable and simply terrorizing the opposition, and although he does "appear" to disappear I have never noticed him being lazy as far as work rate or in closing down the opposition.

At 24 he will be coming into his prime now, and I personally think once it all comes together he will really take off.

This is about the nearest to my own view mate. At the moment he is showing in little cameo's what he is capable of, but not really putting together many outstanding 90 mins.

He does work hard in between his "moments", but it's the game changer Firmino that we need to see more of. 

I do understand why he is becoming one of many peoples favourite players, but he's not quite made it onto my list yet. (mine's a very short list )

For me he is still in the high hopes category, rather than proven top quality one. 

He has been our most productive forward player which ever way you want to look at it, so if peeps are questioning Firmino
Then this would suggest the performances of players like Lallana, Milner, Sturridge have been suspect?

This is about the nearest to my own view mate. At the moment he is showing in little cameo's what he is capable of, but not really putting together many outstanding 90 mins.

He does work hard in between his "moments", but it's the game changer Firmino that we need to see more of. 

I do understand why he is becoming one of many peoples favourite players, but he's not quite made it onto my list yet. (mine's a very short list )

For me he is still in the high hopes category, rather than proven top quality one.

I think the thing is, we went from Torres>Suarez>Firmino... big boots to fill. Firmino has a flare about him and people expect great things but honestly, we shouldn't expect them all our good players with a flare to become world class. I think long term it is better if they don't, I would like a team of good and great players than one excellent player upsetting the balance anyway. Suarez didn't win much at Liverpool, partly because half the team did nothing but pass to Suarez. We didn't have world class forwards in 2005 when we won champions league and our whole team stepped up a gear. We shouldn't rely on world class. I think Firmino is a good fit for Liverpool and I want players that are pieces of a puzzle and get results for the team more than stand out. Look at the German football team that won the WC, I wouldn't call any of them world class. More like a well oiled machine of great players. If Firmino suddenly became world class, could we fend off interest from Spanish teams and get another player as good as him? Would be difficult.

He has been our most productive forward player which ever way you want to look at it, so if peeps are questioning Firmino
Then this would suggest the performances of players like Lallana, Milner, Sturridge have been suspect?

I think we have questioned the performance of every player this season at one time or another. (apart from my Coutinho of course )

You have your opinion and I have mine. Truth is he was our best player for a large chunk of the season in my opinion. I said "ton of games" because I could not put an exact number on it, hence the "hyperbole."

A lot of people don't get goals and assists in every games. Sturridge doesn't even do that. Bar Barcelona and Real Madrid players (Messi, Suarez, etc.) not many players do. Look at Hazard this season, he did not play well just like most of the Chelsea team, do you think they are all average players to.

People live and die by statistics, when the way a player plays the game is sometimes one of the most important things. What about the guy that passes it to the person who assists a goal? He doesn't get any statistical figures but his pass help set the play up. Sometimes it is just one person setting up the goal or etc. But a lot of the time goals are a team effort of keeping possession, opening up the defense with runs and finding an opening.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen goals because a player makes a run and takes a defender with him, only for the ball to get passed to someone else and that person scores. While he did not touch the ball, his run opened up the defense.

You have to judge the team and game as a whole sometimes, yes you can judge individually but sometimes it is hard to do, especially if the entire team is playing well. Firmino has had poor games and he has had games where he was our best player (a lot of times in my opinion). That happens to a lot of players and i think you are being quite too harsh on him. But as i said that is my opinion, not a fact.

Good post.

My opinion is that Firmino blows too hot and cold. I read people waxing lyrical about him and it's purely down to the fact he is Brazilian and has an exotic name.

Look, Firmino did have a good run of games earlier on, I'm not denying that.

But what gets my goat, and this isn't aimed at you is that when someone like Benteke misses a one-on-one his thread fills up with people attacking him.

Firmino wasn't that much cheaper, and had Benteke been the one to spoon his positioning like Firmino did when baring down on goal people would have been cuing up to attack the bloke.

Firmino has only scored one more goal than Benteke who scores a goal every 158 minutes compared to Firmino who scores a goal every 198 minutes, and Benteke has played less than Firmino.

On top the stats, the amount of time Firmino cedes possession is alarming, simple passes and control of the ball is relinquished in ominous moments and phases of the game.

IMHO, he's had one good game in the last what 8-9 possibly 10 games since his return, and I'm just tempering the hypebole around him.

Well, in fairness, this thread did drop half way down the board so nobody was coming in to praise him, however, soon as he is attacked posters are quick to defend him where other players in our team would get ample stick for.

Good post.

My opinion is that Firmino blows too hot and cold. I read people waxing lyrical about him and it's purely down to the fact he is Brazilian and has an exotic name.

Look, Firmino did have a good run of games earlier on, I'm not denying that.

But what gets my goat, and this isn't aimed at you is that when someone like Benteke misses a one-on-one his thread fills up with people attacking him.

Firmino wasn't that much cheaper, and had Benteke been the one to spoon his positioning like Firmino did when baring down on goal people would have been cuing up to attack the bloke.

Firmino has only scored one more goal than Benteke who scores a goal every 158 minutes compared to Firmino who scores a goal every 198 minutes, and Benteke has played less than Firmino.

On top the stats, the amount of time Firmino cedes possession is alarming, simple passes and control of the ball is relinquished in ominous moments and phases of the game.

IMHO, he's had one good game in the last what 8-9 possibly 10 games since his return, and I'm just tempering the hypebole around him.

Well, in fairness, this thread did drop half way down the board so nobody was coming in to praise him, however, soon as he is attacked posters are quick to defend him where other players in our team would get ample stick for.

Excellent post

This comment has no logic to it mate.

If a player is "consistently average" it would mean he has to be average in every game he plays. Which can't be the case for Bobby since he was MOTM in a few games this season.

11 goals and 11 assists this season, his first for Liverpool, doesn't add up to a "consistently average" player no matter what way you spin it.

Over 60 game played this season at 29 million spent. I would say that is good to average for the minutes he's played.

Unless of course you also believe Benteke who has scored 1 less goal at 32 million and played less minutes is also good.

We're 8th in the league for a good reason and the figures above have helped to cement this lofty height.

The difference is, EVERY player for me comes under scrutiny, not just the ones fans don't like or the fans' favourite.

Good post.

My opinion is that Firmino blows too hot and cold. I read people waxing lyrical about him and it's purely down to the fact he is Brazilian and has an exotic name.

Look, Firmino did have a good run of games earlier on, I'm not denying that.

But what gets my goat, and this isn't aimed at you is that when someone like Benteke misses a one-on-one his thread fills up with people attacking him.

Firmino wasn't that much cheaper, and had Benteke been the one to spoon his positioning like Firmino did when baring down on goal people would have been cuing up to attack the bloke.

Firmino has only scored one more goal than Benteke who scores a goal every 158 minutes compared to Firmino who scores a goal every 198 minutes, and Benteke has played less than Firmino.

On top the stats, the amount of time Firmino cedes possession is alarming, simple passes and control of the ball is relinquished in ominous moments and phases of the game.

IMHO, he's had one good game in the last what 8-9 possibly 10 games since his return, and I'm just tempering the hypebole around him.

Well, in fairness, this thread did drop half way down the board so nobody was coming in to praise him, however, soon as he is attacked posters are quick to defend him where other players in our team would get ample stick for.

The thing is Benteke tends to be more wasteful, Firmino scored from less chance, may not be less games but certainly he has had less chances since he doesn't always shoot. Too many meatheads just check goals to game ratio and assume he is a striker. He sets up some important goals, often the player who assists the assist gets un noticed. Benteke doesn't get involved in build up, he gets the ball passed to him and time and time again wastes it. Benteke isn't as terrible as people make out, but the difference in quality between Benteke and Firmino is huge right now.

He has been our most productive forward player which ever way you want to look at it, so if peeps are questioning Firmino
Then this would suggest the performances of players like Lallana, Milner, Sturridge have been suspect?

I  agree, Lallana has been a bigger disappointment considering. However this isn't his thread.

Milner is a midfielder who I believe makes the team better in terms of steel and does more than most with his assists.

Sturridge needs to play more, 8 goals in 122 minutes says that he, when not injured is our most prolific player.

Players like Lallana, Firmino, and Milner will be Klopp favourites, fundamentally, they are 'runners'.

Over 60 game played this season at 29 million spent. I would say that is good to average for the minutes he's played.

Unless of course you also believe Benteke who has scored 1 less goal at 32 million and played less minutes is also good.

We're 8th in the league for a good reason and the figures above have helped to cement this lofty height.

The difference is, EVERY player for me comes under scrutiny, not just the ones fans don't like or the fans' favourite.

Benteke: Playing position Centre Foward. Firmino Playing position: Centre Forward, Attacking midfielder, Winger. Why do people keep comparing goals to games ratio?

Benteke: Playing position Centre Foward. Firmino Playing position: Centre Forward, Attacking midfielder, Winger. Why do people keep comparing goals to games ratio?

He's more than likely played in Benteke's position more than Benteke himself.

That's why.

Anyway, like I said, I'm just tempering the hyperbole around this fella, who seems to have been cordoned off by the cultists from scrutiny.

Good post.

My opinion is that Firmino blows too hot and cold. I read people waxing lyrical about him and it's purely down to the fact he is Brazilian and has an exotic name.

Look, Firmino did have a good run of games earlier on, I'm not denying that.

But what gets my goat, and this isn't aimed at you is that when someone like Benteke misses a one-on-one his thread fills up with people attacking him.

Firmino wasn't that much cheaper, and had Benteke been the one to spoon his positioning like Firmino did when baring down on goal people would have been cuing up to attack the bloke.

Firmino has only scored one more goal than Benteke who scores a goal every 158 minutes compared to Firmino who scores a goal every 198 minutes, and Benteke has played less than Firmino.

On top the stats, the amount of time Firmino cedes possession is alarming, simple passes and control of the ball is relinquished in ominous moments and phases of the game.

IMHO, he's had one good game in the last what 8-9 possibly 10 games since his return, and I'm just tempering the hypebole around him.

Well, in fairness, this thread did drop half way down the board so nobody was coming in to praise him, however, soon as he is attacked posters are quick to defend him where other players in our team would get ample stick for.

If you look at his thread in the first few months (before Klopp's arrival) people gave him a lot of stick. Probably not as much as Benteke, because Benteke was supposed to be our "prime" striker this season, but there was stick. Then we started to see his skill and his play making abilities.

The biggest problem with any player is consistency. There are no players in the world who consistently play amazing for 90 minutes every single match. To be honest, your posts could be made for any player at LFC. Coutinho goes missing in games, Sturridge does, any player on LFC does. Even the best players in the world go missing in games. It is virtually impossible to "not be average" at some point. It is true though that some are more consistent than others. Firmino is young and still is trying to find his consistency, but he has not been that bad as of late. I think he has just been out shined by others (Milner, Sturridge, Origi). Most people remember one or two guys that have a stand out game, and not every little thing that other players have done even though others could have had a good game as well (if this makes sense). Look at most man of the match polls, it is usually dominated by one or two players, but this does not mean that everyone else was average.

I have seen players get two or three goals in a game and go missing before or after that. That is why I don't think you can make that argument against Firmino. You might as well copy and paste your argument in every player thread we have.

If you look at his thread in the first few months (before Klopp's arrival) people gave him a lot of stick. Probably not as much as Benteke, because Benteke was supposed to be our "prime" striker this season, but there was stick. Then we started to see his skill and his play making abilities.

The biggest problem with any player is consistency. There are no players in the world who consistently play amazing for 90 minutes every single match. To be honest, your posts could be made for any player at LFC. Coutinho goes missing in games, Sturridge does, any player on LFC does. Even the best players in the world go missing in games. It is virtually impossible to "not be average" at some point. It is true though that some are more consistent than others. Firmino is young and still is trying to find his consistency, but he has not been that bad as of late. I think he has just been out shined by others (Milner, Sturridge, Origi). Most people remember one or two guys that have a stand out game, and not every little thing that other players have done even though others could have had a good game as well (if this makes sense). Look at most man of the match polls, it is usually dominated by one or two players, but this does not mean that everyone else was average.

I have seen players get two or three goals in a game and go missing before or after that. That is why I don't think you can make that argument against Firmino. You might as well copy and paste your argument in every player thread we have.

True.

But it just so happens I am doing it in the relevant thread towards the relevant player.

 I read people waxing lyrical about him and it's purely down to the fact he is Brazilian and has an exotic name.

Awesome rationale there.

Ohhhh ENGERRRRLUUUND!!!