The Negative Gang - It aint personal

What are you hinting for?
If about me to drunk?
Don't worry I don't drink at all

Alessio, where would you put us alongside the big European teams? You reckon we rank up with the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Real Madrid, AC Milan? I don't believe the Champions League is the one to decide that, simply because we had Monaco vs Porto in the final in 2004

Me being negative on here - doesn't affect RAFA or the Team.  So I can sleep at night.  

Pennant and Rafa benitez are probably reading this tread right now.

I was going to excuse you from the Negative gang since I have never read anything negative from you. But I decided not to name names. So you're right. you try to remain very positive at all times. Cool. Truth is you're the only one like that in this forum. nice too.

Thank you, solodee! I was simply fed up to be negative and try to change myself.
Try to follow what I believe in now and forever

Alessio, where would you put us alongside the big European teams? You reckon we rank up with the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Real Madrid, AC Milan? I don't believe the Champions League is the one to decide that, simply because we had Monaco vs Porto in the final in 2004

For me, Liverpool always take first place. You get everything you believe in!Remember that!
If to speak about Milan. Now Milan are in Seria far from Inter. But no one thinks to sink team and delete that team from top-class team.

http://www.coping.org/anger/pessimis.htm#Steps

How does pessimism and negativity affect my behavior?
When I am negative or pessimistic I:

• look at the worst side of a situation.
• say what ``I'm not'' rather than what ``I could be.''
• lack the belief that I could change.
• lose hope in the future.
• take the opposing view in any positive conversation.
• am unable to make upbeat or uplifting comments about myself or others.
• turn all conversations into griping, complaining, or bitching sessions.
• have nothing good to say about myself or others.
• complain about the inequities of life.
• try nothing new or challenging because I feel that I will fail.
• get bitter over how people treat me - now and in the past.
• put down new, creative and inventive ideas as impossible.
• limit my horizons which results in limiting my personal growth.
• take no risks.
• challenge those who are looking for the ``up'' side of a tragedy, failure, or disaster.
• ridicule those who believe in the power and mercy of their ``Higher Power.''
• ridicule attempts to rectify a dysfunctional situation.
• resist altering my way of thinking, because I feel nothing will help or make a difference.

I think it's fair to say some of the more regular negative gang can relate to these things. 

Joking aside though, to be fair to Richobaz, he did put 'it aint personal' in the header of this thread. And as time passes by and you look back to 1990, it's a harsh reality that it's been so long since we've won the league. It hurts. Undoubtedly you're bound to get people who are negative about it and want everything to happen right now, than others. It's a simple fact of life.

We rank as one of the best clubs in the world for our past achievements and for our loyal support. When things went down hill in the early 90's I was heart broken and was at that time, quite negative, I have to admit. It didn't help to see the mancs passing us by playing probably a more decent game than we did in the process. All I could ever think of was 'why can we not be like that?' and start questioning everything about our players and manager. But I soon learned that the mancs had been working for quite some time to have that way of play and how they won games. And I realised that we had to really build up, basically from scratch to start competing again. Maybe what's been to our disadvantage though is the quality of football has been rapidly improving in the league since the 90's. And it still is today.

Whether people disagree or not, I think we edging closer and closer than we ever have been before. The youth set up are doing good, the reserves are doing great. It's just not happening on the pitch for the first team and in the stands at the moment. But at the beginning of the season, the football looked good, the confidence was there in abundance and we saw a striker come in who is very dangerous who can hopefully go on and get such status as Fowler and Rush. We had high hopes.

I'll admit, I've been confused by some of Rafa's team selections in the past but what's really got me pissed off and given me negative vibes is the lack of commitment on the pitch by some of the players. Half hearted tackles and sloppy passing is down to the individual players, not the manager. It's all too easy to blame the manager because these are the players he's brought in, but some of these players are better than what they've shown themselves to be lately. And they know it. Add to that some of the poor commitment by some of the fans at the match with their negative moans and groans, it makes me wonder why they are there. And whether they are still stuck in the early 90's!!

In my eyes it's all still a learning curve. I've learned that things just don't get given to you on a plate - quite frankly like they were in the 80's, for me. They have to be worked on and keep being worked on. There is no doubt in my mind that there has been work done in improving the whole set up of our club for future success. So short term quick fixes don't appeal to me. Although the way things are going behind the scenes in our club, I fear that could be the likely outcome for the near future to make a quick 'buck'.

And I've learned not to take too much notice to the negativity from the press, phones in's or forums etc. Fair enough constructive criticism makes you take note of other peoples opinions, whether you agree or not. But don't hammer negativity down the throats of other people like the media do, because it will either be ignored or spread into the stands of Anfield!!!!!

Alessio, where would you put us alongside the big European teams? You reckon we rank up with the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Real Madrid, AC Milan? I don't believe the Champions League is the one to decide that, simply because we had Monaco vs Porto in the final in 2004

Chelsea......Big European Team What have they ever done in the Champions League!!!

Fantastic Post Kenny.....Spot On Mate

Good post. Redkenny

If we cant pick out the area's of improvement, and sometimes be realistic and true to ourselves and the club, we're not going to get anywhere.
The first step of success, is accepting failure and identifying area's of improvement.
Im as honest as they get, and even when we have won, it has not been an impressive game to watch, and its good to pick out what needs improvement. As there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and something to carry forward to the next game.
Im not a one eyed supporter, yet I love the club and am just as passionate about it as all of you are who go to every match and live on merseyside.

We havnt beaten a top 5 (mancs, chavs, arsenal, man city, villa) team this year....the only wins we've had are to sides much much lower than us...that is FACT, that is not being negative.
We need to get rid of some players who clearly will not bring us the title...that is FACT, that is not being negative.
We have problems in our attacking third as we lack creativity on how to shred a defense apart as a team, not one individual player doing it (nando, stevie, or babel)....this is FACT, not negativity.
I dont believe mascherano is worth 17 million....this is not negativity, this is not fact, this is my opinion...

Why is the phrase negativity and pessimism being bought into things?? As far as im concerned, my comments are intended to be constructive criticism, and with my comments above, they are FACT....

According to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pessimistic, this is the definition of pessimistic:

   1. A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable or to take the gloomiest possible view: "We have seen too much defeatism, too much pessimism, too much of a negative approach" (Margo Jones).
   2. The doctrine or belief that this is the worst of all possible worlds and that all things ultimately tend toward evil.
   3. The doctrine or belief that the evil in the world outweighs the good.

And this is the definition of constructive criticism:
criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often with an offer of possible solutions

Yes, the future for us is bright, and we are a work in progress.....however, at the moment, and for the past 2 months, things havnt been good at all....for those who think that we're in a good position, i dare you to prove me that...

Rafa needs to buy young quality players, and build a team like Wenger has done!

Have you heard of Nemmeth, San Jose, Jordi?

Truly excellent youth team prospects, amongst others, signed by ...yes you guessed it - Rafa in his FIRST season managing the youth team (a la Wenger).

What a pile of sh*t!

I'll answer these questions mate - honestly:

1. Flood the club with Money ?  Every single fecking football expert in the country knows that Rafa has been given over £140million I think to invest wisely in LFC.  So that's quite a bit mate - explain why we need more?

2. Transition the Club bottom-up - youth ect ?  No fecking guarantees here - this could back-fire on Rafa in a big way - as I said in a previous post.  Wenger has done it - know one else has!

3.  Ferguson has spent how much?  As fans do we give a sh*t how much is spent - AS LONG AS WE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is negative - it's an accurate response to the facts.

You won't listen because all of you think I'm doing this for the fun of it - I'm trying to open your eyes to serious problems.

Have a look back at the posts of me being negative - over 2/3 months ago.  I saw this situation coming - all of you keep kidding yourselves that everything will be alright.

1. We have a couple of Yank Cun*s who couldn't give a S8it about the club.
2. We are out of the Championship race 3 weeks after Xmas - NOT FECKING GOOD ENOUGH!!!

Your a F***ing idiot. Deadset. A thick dumb founded lunatic!

1. He has made most of that in selling players and brought in Xabi, Reina, Babel, Benayoun, Torres, Arbeloa, Skrtel, Agger, Crouch, Pennant, Masch, Leiva, Aurellio plus young stars like Nemeth etc etc. Did you forget that?

2. Rafa has just started his youth system so shut your mouth about that because we havent had the chance to see results there mate! But our young starshave won the FA Youth Cup 2 years in a row and continuing to shine.

3. You just back tracked on yourself here.

Your a thick sh*t stirrer, you are so wound up in your little world and dont see where other people come from and realise you have the wrong perspective. Wake up and see the light in what Rafa is doing.

Just like a everyday Joe who gets hassled by the boss, would they be working their best? No. But they would be trying so darn hard because they know they have their job at stake, just like Rafa.

Your a F***ing idiot. Deadset. A thick dumb founded lunatic!

1. He has made most of that in selling players and brought in Xabi, Reina, Babel, Benayoun, Torres, Arbeloa, Skrtel, Agger, Crouch, Pennant, Masch, Leiva, Aurellio plus young stars like Nemeth etc etc. Did you forget that?

2. Rafa has just started his youth system so shut your mouth about that because we havent had the chance to see results there mate! But our young starshave won the FA Youth Cup 2 years in a row and continuing to shine.

3. You just back tracked on yourself here.

Your a thick sh*t stirrer, you are so wound up in your little world and dont see where other people come from and realise you have the wrong perspective. Wake up and see the light in what Rafa is doing.

Just like a everyday Joe who gets hassled by the boss, would they be working their best? No. But they would be trying so darn hard because they know they have their job at stake, just like Rafa.

EDc / JD / RedKenny / MrTommo - I want this **** banned for this to be honest !

It's a personal attack on me - via words - what a wimp!

Call me passionate.

I'll admit, I've been confused by some of Rafa's team selections in the past but what's really got me pissed off and given me negative vibes is the lack of commitment on the pitch by some of the players. Half hearted tackles and sloppy passing is down to the individual players, not the manager. It's all too easy to blame the manager because these are the players he's brought in, but some of these players are better than what they've shown themselves to be lately. And they know it. Add to that some of the poor commitment by some of the fans at the match with their negative moans and groans, it makes me wonder why they are there. And whether they are still stuck in the early 90's!!

Nice post Kenny, I agree with most of what you say.  

I would be interested to know who you think are not putting in the effort.  I think most of the squad put in the effort most of the time, it's the quality of some of the play which I think is the problem.  For example, in the game against Villa, Kuyt totally wrong footed the defender and raced down the wing to be faced with one defender, the goalkeeper and Torres in the area.  He found the defender with his pass.  It is hard to suppress a groan when such a good chance is created and then is let down by the final pass.  This has been repeated far too often in recent matches and I understand the groans from fans when the final ball does not reach its target.  The groans are an indication of the fan's involvement with the team so I can't condemn it.  I don't think it is negativity, it is just frustration that good build up play has not resulted in a more positive outcome.

I must admit I am stuck in the 90's.  the 1890's.

Call me passionate.

Truth be known - my comments are Footy related - like them or loathe them - that's it!

You couldn't handle a heated debate without calling names - that's not passion!

EDc / JD / RedKenny / MrTommo - I want this **** banned for this to be honest !

It's a personal attack on me - via words - what a wimp!

Ban me while you are it - because this Richobaz chap has his head so far up his own arse... that it's beginning to appear over his shoulders again...

...and yes Richobaz I would tell you that to your face too, who the F**k do you think you are??

... and I still remember your threatening PMs, so don't start preaching about "personal attack" - YOU WIMP.

Truth be known - my comments are Footy related - like them or loathe them - that's it!

You couldn't handle a heated debate without calling names - that's not passion!

GENUINE Hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!

because this Richobaz chap has his head so far up his own arse... that it's beginning to appear over his shoulders again...

...and yes Richobaz I would tell you that to your face too, who the F**k do you think you are??

Seconded!

Ban me while you are it - because this Richobaz chap has his head so far up his own arse... that it's beginning to appear over his shoulders again...

...and yes Richobaz I would tell you that to your face too, who the F**k do you think you are??

... and I still remember your threatening PMs, so don't start preaching about "personal attack" - YOU WIMP.

NICE ONE !

Seconded!

Good on yer !

GENUINE Hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personal Messaging is okay - airing in public is wrong - isn't that the mistake Liverpool have been making.

Love you too X

See I can be positive - you've got me all wrong.

http://www.coping.org/anger/pessimis.htm#Steps

How does pessimism and negativity affect my behavior?
When I am negative or pessimistic I:


look at the worst side of a situation.
say what ``I'm not'' rather than what ``I could be.''
lack the belief that I could change.
lose hope in the future.
take the opposing view in any positive conversation.
am unable to make upbeat or uplifting comments about myself or others.
turn all conversations into griping, complaining, or bitching sessions.
have nothing good to say about myself or others.
complain about the inequities of life.
try nothing new or challenging because I feel that I will fail.
get bitter over how people treat me - now and in the past.
put down new, creative and inventive ideas as impossible.
limit my horizons which results in limiting my personal growth.
take no risks.
challenge those who are looking for the ``up'' side of a tragedy, failure, or disaster.
ridicule those who believe in the power and mercy of their ``Higher Power.''
ridicule attempts to rectify a dysfunctional situation.
resist altering my way of thinking, because I feel nothing will help or make a difference.

RedKenny, May you find anything about how optimism and positivity influence your behaviour....
I think it will be better for developpment

Well back onto topic, me personally have been a major critic of Rafas Transfers dealings. I make no secret of that. As for the players mentioned earlier, my opinions are as follows.

Xabi - Excellent first season, hasn't quite hit those heights since but still a very good buy
Reina - World class keeper. No doubts about that. An excellent piece of business
Babel - Totolly unproven, but looks like he has the talent to suceed. I'm slightly worried Wenger wasn't prepared to pay more than 11 million though. His eye for young talent is superior to anyone
Benayoun - Ok player, but Championship winning quality? Giggs, Robben, Kanchelskis, Beckham, Overmars, Lljunberg, Ronaldo, Duff (a young and fit Duff), Pires and..................... Stuart Ripley are the sort of wingers who have starred for Championship winning teams. Is he on that level? No chance!
Torres - Ran out of superlatives for this guy but it was a bit of a no brainer really
Arbeloa - Proven his quality last season. Though I personally prefer to see full-backs who love to attack and get forward constantly to suport wingers, I still think he's a decent player and prospect.
Skrtel - Never seen him play. Hoping he's the next Vidic
Agger - A good season last year, but have we bought another Sugar Bones Kirkland?
Crouch - Good servant. A cult hero. As for championship winning class striker? You're havin a larf!!!
Pennant - sh*t. End of
Masch - A masterstroke rescueing him from his West Ham nightmare.
Leiva - Unproven but has a good CV for a young lad. Havn't seen him enough to be honest. One for the future
Aurellio - sh*t
Nemeth - Unproven but I bet my house he will be sold in in the next year

So looking at that, not bad at all. However, the turkeys he's bought in his time here cannot be ignored. Kromkamp, Josemi,  Pellegrino, Kuyt, Bellamy, Morientes, Nunez, Zenden, Barragan, Voronin, Gonzalez, Sissoko, Paletta, Garcia (*puts on tin hat*)  and others are all sh*t. For the 132 million outlay we have seen from Rafa I really don't think a slight title challenge is too much to ask from anyone. But at the end of the day thats just my view

If you go through the players you think are sh*t (personally I disagree with a couple), who has been sold on at a major loss, or is likely to be? The biggest loss Rafa has made on a player is a measly £3m on Morientes, and being honest who wasn't excited when we signed him? Every manager will make mistakes with transfers, it's when they start costing us big money we need to start worrying. Even Wenger lost big money on Wiltord & Reyes, though apparently he's the shrewdest manager out there.