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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match?

      Loris Karius
      6 (7.6%)
      Nathaniel Clyne
      0 (0%)
      Joel Matip
      7 (8.9%)
      Dejan Lovren
      0 (0%)
      James Milner
      4 (5.1%)
      Jordan Henderson
      10 (12.7%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      1 (1.3%)
      Adam Lallana
      14 (17.7%)
      Roberto Firmino
      0 (0%)
      Sadio Mane
      34 (43%)
      Divock Origi
      3 (3.8%)
      Ragnar Klavan
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 74

      Voting closed: Dec 15, 2016 07:34:02 pm

      Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion

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      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #391: Dec 11, 2016 07:39:23 pm
      No it wasn't actually, decent stop when Lovren was completely lost by the ball over the top, could have been going wide but he couldn't be 100% sure. Another decent punch earlier when the defence went to sleep. Let's just focus on the weak hand he got on the shot though, or are we saying he was at fault for letting the 1v1 in, because for me he wasn't to blame for that at all?

      You're letting Karius off with goals that if Migs were letting in you'd be apoplectic about.

      Theres no point talking about it, until you've eventually reached your limit with him your going to forgive him everything. We're supposedly going for a title and he's letting in piss easy shots.
      Rush
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #392: Dec 11, 2016 07:40:59 pm
      Voted Mane for MotM

      Looked like the only player capable of causing them trouble
      tezmac
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      • F**k the Sun F**k Murdoch F**k the press
      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #393: Dec 11, 2016 07:41:49 pm
      Went for Mane for mom but it was hard after another F**k up
      Gill95
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      Re: LIVE: Liverpool v West Ham United 11th December
      Reply #394: Dec 11, 2016 07:42:08 pm
      He is shot in confidence because of himself. To be honest , i can never remember him being confident. I'm not insulting him , i'm just pointing out his weakness's that our costing our team points.
      Regarding your other point about posting when we are winning. I have a life, friends and family. I talk with them about football and how we are doing. Who said i have to post on here when everyone on here is basically saying what i am thinking?  It seems , unlike you , i am not infected with a need to garner +'s and pats on the back from a other posters. Better to just enjoy the team instead of posting every thought that enters my head.
      Listen , i get it , your upset just like the rest of us but please leave the " you only sing when we're winning " bollocks.
      So does everyone who posts here.

      Still doesn't explain your need to constantly slate the players, and coming out of your hiding to post when we drop points.

      bigmick
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #395: Dec 11, 2016 07:42:21 pm
      But you spent all last season moaning at Migs for letting in much tougher goals than have been going past Karius this season. Now all of a sudden it's the defenders fault, or a small mistake.

      A spade a spade these two on our books are not good enough. Watch Karius top saves on Youtube and everything bounces off him. Even his top saves! Here at Liverpool everything bounces off him. A corner under his nose he flaps at it. His distribution still not good enough. His shot stopping sub-standard.

      It's not a witch hunt, he's not a scapegoat. He's just a 5 million pound goalkeeper who shouldn't have been here. A position we needed to fill and we've tried to fill it on the cheap.

      If BR signed him you'd be calling this guy too. Well as it stands BR fu**ed us up with Migs and Bogdan. Klopp has done the same with Karius. We will stick with this guy for years before selling him. But he won't make it here. He's just not good enough.

      Sooner or later we have to get this right. Most important position in the team in many ways and we are in a position where whoeever we go for will inevitably cost us more points than they will save us.

      The cost is already mounting up for us and for City as Chelsea with a class goalkeeper and a boring 3 at the back system pull away from us with a much superior defensive unit.

      Karius won't take us to the title. It just won't happen.


      Whoah there Tiger. Where in the forum rules does it say you have to be consistent? Where does it mention that you're not allowed to have double standards?

      Seriously, can you imagine if Migs had been in goal today and played exactly the same way and you'd come on and said "hang on he did a good punch in the second half".   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      rossyred
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #396: Dec 11, 2016 07:43:55 pm
      Seriously? It wasn't even an issue today bar Matip's mistake. You saying that Matip should be dropped for Sakho because that's the only logical reason for what is already a highly illogical comment.

      And besides - Sakho fu**ed up. Disrespected Klopp's authority and continued to f**k about. If you think Klopp will sell out his integrity (and with it a lot of his authority) then none of us can help you with that opinion.

      Mental comment.

      John? Is that you?

      F**k me people we are through the looking glass here! The zoomers are out in full force I tell ya!

      So its Achterburgs fault for the goal thanks for clearing hope Alicia
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #397: Dec 11, 2016 07:45:41 pm

      Whoah there Tiger. Where in the forum rules does it say you have to be consistent? Where does it mention that you're not allowed to have double standards?

      Seriously, can you imagine if Migs had been in goal today and played exactly the same way and you'd come on and said "hang on he did a good punch in the second half".   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:



      Haha but what a great save at his near post in the first half :giveup: !!

      Is that really where our standards have gone to?
      bmck
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #398: Dec 11, 2016 07:45:59 pm
      You pal and your 3/10 ratings on the basis of one incident that is open to interpretation as to the level of how bad a mistake it was says to me you aren't a reliable opinion on here.

      Hows this for a rating?

      bmck - 3/10.

      Aw cmon, surely a 4.5/10 ;), it's Christmas
      Gill95
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #399: Dec 11, 2016 07:46:55 pm

      Whoah there Tiger. Where in the forum rules does it say you have to be consistent? Where does it mention that you're not allowed to have double standards?

      Seriously, can you imagine if Migs had been in goal today and played exactly the same way and you'd come on and said "hang on he did a good punch in the second half".   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      Nobody would, Karius is in his first season while Migs is in his 4th season. People are not as daft as you think they are.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #400: Dec 11, 2016 07:48:38 pm
      But you spent all last season moaning at Migs for letting in much tougher goals than have been going past Karius this season. Now all of a sudden it's the defenders fault, or a small mistake.

      If you can't see the difference you're blind. I'm giving a young lad starting out with us a chance rather than enduring someone who has been with us for 3 seasons (4 now) and continually declined. One recovering from a broken hand and clearly with his confidence shot and the microscope being pointed at him from all angles including a little Manc rat who will be revelling in it tonight.

      A spade a spade these two on our books are not good enough. Watch Karius top saves on Youtube and everything bounces off him. Even his top saves! Here at Liverpool everything bounces off him. A corner under his nose he flaps at it. His distribution still not good enough. His shot stopping sub-standard.

      Maybe true that he's not good enough and I'm glad to see you're not one that is saying the answer is Mignolet. If the answer isn't Karius it's someone else entirely. As for previous saves, his stats in the past are excellent, I'm happy enough with that knowledge and expect him to return to those standards once he battles through this spell. As for his punching and sweeper keeping, I've personally been reasonably impressed with that part of his game. Also his distribution, if you take away the occasional moment of madness then he's been a huge improvement.

      It's not a witch hunt, he's not a scapegoat. He's just a 5 million pound goalkeeper who shouldn't have been here. A position we needed to fill and we've tried to fill it on the cheap.

      It was a buyout clause and as I've said before many times he ranked very highly when compared with the Bundesliga's best, which is no mean feat.

      If BR signed him you'd be calling this guy too. Well as it stands BR fu**ed us up with Migs and Bogdan. Klopp has done the same with Karius. We will stick with this guy for years before selling him. But he won't make it here. He's just not good enough.

      Such a silly thing to say, no I'd be again defending him because I know just how poor Mignolet is. It's such a childish comment to think that who signed them has any bearing whatsoever. Didn't Brendan sign Firmino and I defend him also against all the bullshit he receives. Didn't Brendan sign Coutinho and he is one of my favourite players, so this type of comment just drags the debate down into the nonsense of the past and allows for no progress on here or in terms of what we all want and that's a successful LFC.

      Karius won't take us to the title. It just won't happen.

      Maybe, again, I'm willing to give a young lad, in a new league with form much better than this over years a chance to prove he can fight through the massive spotlight that has been shone upon him after returning from a very difficult injury. If you want to throw him under the bus, pull him out of the team for a lad that has proven to be a failure over many years then go for it, I wont join you.
      David Wright
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #401: Dec 11, 2016 07:49:20 pm
      Cr*p defending cost us again, went for a score draw, although really hoped to beat West Ham today. What do you expect from the way this lot try to defend !!
      bmck
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #402: Dec 11, 2016 07:50:56 pm
      No it wasn't actually, decent stop when Lovren was completely lost by the ball over the top, could have been going wide but he couldn't be 100% sure. Another decent punch earlier when the defence went to sleep. Let's just focus on the weak hand he got on the shot though, or are we saying he was at fault for letting the 1v1 in, because for me he wasn't to blame for that at all?

      Already said what I thought on both goals w.r.t Karius. Klopp has big decision to make there.
      bigmick
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #403: Dec 11, 2016 07:51:23 pm
      You're letting Karius off with goals that if Migs were letting in you'd be apoplectic about.

      Theres no point talking about it, until you've eventually reached your limit with him your going to forgive him everything. We're supposedly going for a title and he's letting in piss easy shots.

      It's why I find it hard to take some posters seriously. For sure we all have our favourites, and for sure if we detested Rodgers with a passion we are going to find it slightly harder to like a player he signed than if say Benitez or the King had signed him, I get that. Equally, we all want players which Jürgen has signed to be a success and are prepared to cut them the maximum amount of slack, all of this is good with me. I'm even doing the same thing with Karius myself, I cannot personally see the point in dropping him in order to put Mignolet back in, as there is at least a chance Karius will improve.

      All that said it's pointless sticking your fingers in your ears and going lah lah lah-lah lah, or putting a blindfold on and pretending this fella is good, because at the moment he is a f****** liability. At the moment he is marginally WORSE than Mignolet. At the moment the decision to sign him rather than the no doubt 100's of other goalkeepers we could have signed is looking like a bit of a disaster. In fact when you really look at it, signing a relative kid when our back up keeper was/is confirmed sh!te is now looking like a reckless move. Surely signing an established, experienced, proven goalie would have made more sense (with the benifit of hindsight obviously, although I did say lets buy Hart).

      Now I know De Gea started pretty sh!te, even Schmeichal and Reina were a bit dodgy at first. I know they improved dramatically too, but you know what? Most players who start off this sh!te stay this sh!te, if we aren't at least considering our goalkeeping situation in the January window I'd be disappointed.
      bigmick
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #404: Dec 11, 2016 07:52:20 pm
      Haha but what a great save at his near post in the first half :giveup: !!

      Is that really where our standards have gone to?

      It appears so mate yes.
      bmck
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #405: Dec 11, 2016 07:53:54 pm

      Seriously, can you imagine if Migs had been in goal today and played exactly the same way and you'd come on and said "hang on he did a good punch in the second half".   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


      Can only imagine.
      Unfortunate thing is, calling for Migs to be given a run in the team is not something that sits easy.
      Thought had seen the last of him last year.
      But at the end of the day, Klopp kept him, and he is our backup keeper, so that is the choice that we have.
      « Last Edit: Dec 11, 2016 08:07:52 pm by bmck »
      bigmick
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #406: Dec 11, 2016 07:54:36 pm
      Nobody would, Karius is in his first season while Migs is in his 4th season. People are not as daft as you think they are.

      Karius maybe in his first season, but I'm in my 45th mate ( I started watching and supporting Liverpool when I was 5). You might be quite happy to wait a couple of seasons while we find out if Karius is upto it or not, but forgive me if I haven't got quite the same patience as you. I'd quite like to see us win the league again before I hang my boots up once and for all, and you don't do it with goalkeepers who can't save shots. Hopefully Karius discovers a way to do that before too much longer.
      bmck
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #407: Dec 11, 2016 07:57:50 pm
      Was going to go with Mane or Milner for MOTM, but went for Lallana, held his own and scored on first start after long layoff. Might not hold up to scrutiny, but what the hey...
      bigmick
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #408: Dec 11, 2016 07:59:43 pm
      Was going to go with Mane or Milner for MOTM, but went for Lallana, held his own and scored on first start after long layoff. Might not hold up to scrutiny, but what the hey...

      I shouldn't worry too much about scrutiny. There'll be posters giving Karius an 8/10 because of a good punch, or Bobby Firmino 9/10 because he closed someone down with "gusto". Scrutiny mutiny, say what you see mate ;D.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #409: Dec 11, 2016 08:02:29 pm
      If you can't see the difference you're blind. I'm giving a young lad starting out with us a chance rather than enduring someone who has been with us for 3 seasons (4 now) and continually declined. One recovering from a broken hand and clearly with his confidence shot and the microscope being pointed at him from all angles including a little Manc rat who will be revelling in it tonight.

      Maybe true that he's not good enough and I'm glad to see you're not one that is saying the answer is Mignolet. If the answer isn't Karius it's someone else entirely. As for previous saves, his stats in the past are excellent, I'm happy enough with that knowledge and expect him to return to those standards once he battles through this spell. As for his punching and sweeper keeping, I've personally been reasonably impressed with that part of his game. Also his distribution, if you take away the occasional moment of madness then he's been a huge improvement.

      It was a buyout clause and as I've said before many times he ranked very highly when compared with the Bundesliga's best, which is no mean feat.

      Such a silly thing to say, no I'd be again defending him because I know just how poor Mignolet is. It's such a childish comment to think that who signed them has any bearing whatsoever. Didn't Brendan sign Firmino and I defend him also against all the bullshit he receives. Didn't Brendan sign Coutinho and he is one of my favourite players, so this type of comment just drags the debate down into the nonsense of the past and allows for no progress on here or in terms of what we all want and that's a successful LFC.

      Maybe, again, I'm willing to give a young lad, in a new league with form much better than this over years a chance to prove he can fight through the massive spotlight that has been shone upon him after returning from a very difficult injury. If you want to throw him under the bus, pull him out of the team for a lad that has proven to be a failure over many years then go for it, I wont join you.

      Cool here we go.

      I take back the BR comment, although I truly believe that there is a section on here who wouldn't be so forgiving if it was BR and who similarly will not criticise a Klopp signing under any circumstance.

      I see improvement with Karius on Migs with his feet. At least with my eyes but then the stats were pretty low when I saw them last week. One of the lowest in the league. I see more confidence in the lad than Migs too. More willingness to come out and punch. Like I said in his thread, that was a good punch from under Andy Carrolls nose. That isn't to say i've seen anything world class or even a class a rung below that in him.

      His shot stopping and mainly his handling have been well below average, and i'm not convinced that his confidence is merely bravado.

      Defenders will always make mistakes. These days they all want to be ball players, good on the ball, basically they arent rugged brick shithouses anymore. They take risk, they go walk about, some of them can't even defend when called upon. Our current crop have mistakes in them. Lovren much improved but has mistakes in them. Matip calm and composed but maybe a little too much so?

      Point is sh*t happens and we need a last line of defence we can rely on.

      I'm worried. The only way out of this situation i can see Klopp taking is to sell Migs in the Summer and to bring in another keeper to 'challenge'/take Karius' spot in the team.

      That surely is the way the club will go. Migs will take the fall. However the way this is going I think Klopp will turn to him soon, if Karius continues to  put in these 'less than perfect performances' as i've heard it comically understated.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #410: Dec 11, 2016 08:02:36 pm
      Don't know whether the answer is dropping Karius for Mignolet but taking emotions and favorites out of it, if it were any other position on the pitch, people would easily come to the conclusion that you give the starter a sit and try the backup.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #411: Dec 11, 2016 08:05:03 pm
      Same ol liverpool. Beat the big teams struggle against the bread and butter.

      Its a mental deficiency
      littleface
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      Re: LIVE: Liverpool v West Ham United 11th December
      Reply #412: Dec 11, 2016 08:09:50 pm
      So does everyone who posts here.

      Still doesn't explain your need to constantly slate the players, and coming out of your hiding to post when we drop points.
      Slate the players? You mean give my opinion on their abilities ? When a player constantly gives below par performance's we are entitled to criticize . That is sport. Players have have to perform to a high standard consistently if they want to succeed. What i can't take is a player with a weak mentality , who is richly rewarded for shrinking into himself at the cost of his team . There is NO excuse for that.

      Hiding ? Really? Hiding while the team is doing well? What the F**k are you going on about? Where does it say on the forum rules that you have to post a certain quota , regardless of the teams results? Please give it a rest. You and me are fed up at the moment but i'm not taking it out on you. I'm not even taking it out on the team. I'm just honestly pointing out what i think is wrong with our team . It's not all bad , look at the table , but we need to improve.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 West Ham United: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #413: Dec 11, 2016 08:12:23 pm
      Some posters really losing their sh*t bringing in poor Rodgers into the argument.

      We have had a couple of poor performances no doubt but realistically these same posters did they really think things would be so smooth considering where we finished last year!
       We are a team in progression and no where near the finished article.

      It's great to be involved in a title hunt but we really lack the quality needed for a sustained run, look what a couple of injuries has done.

      If we can hang in there over the next 4 games and bring in a couple of reinforcements in January then it's still all positive.

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